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#32972 - 04/20/05 01:23 PM Re: Ignored importance.
Brandon61 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 28
Sometimes all we can do is sit tight and ride out the anger. We listen and don't judge. We can't cure your anger.
Shame is something that is hard to address, and few actually talk about it on the open threads.
I've worked out my own answers here and at home. PM me and I see what I can do to help.


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#32973 - 04/20/05 06:23 PM Re: Ignored importance.
Bobby Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 1287
Loc: Arizona
Commenting on this thread is so dangerous. I have considered this question in my mind over and over again. My perpetrator was my dad, and I loved him (my child still does), and can't help thinking that in some way and at some point he loved me. Then why? What makes you do that to a little kid? What drives you to rape a child? What clicks inside to make you think even for the moment that it is in any way justified...because there has to be some degree of rationalization, or you wouldn't do it.

Also, there are many kinds of abuse. There is the kindly uncle abuse, the older brother abuse, the drunken relative abuse, the trusted coach abuse, the brutal rape, the date rape, the infant and we go on and on. We see here on the discussion board that the results are amazingly similar for those who have been abused, but, even so, do we lump all of these perpetrators together? Is it all the same illness, or a series of them that all result in the horrible act of SA?

Is the older brother who sneaks into his younger brother's bed in the middle of the night the same as the brutal man who ties up the child, rapes him and beats him afterward? Perhaps we are being too simplistic.

Also, I think there are times when we must admit that we simply do not have the tools or the knowledge with which to treat/cure a disease. We can all wish that we had that knowledge, but wishes won't make it true. In my mind, I have decided that,if we make a mistake, we simply must err on the side of society at large. We must keep these people away from children. If it means a desert island somewhere, so be it. It simply is not worth the risk of another child's life to release a perpetrator back into society to see if he has overcome his desires. If, indeed, it is an addiction, we all know that you never recover from one of those, but simply learn to manage it. We also know that a relapse is certainly not uncommon. Relapsing with a narcotic and a needle is certainly not the same as relapsing by finding an innocent child to rape. We don't have to seek revenge, but we do have to protect until that day when we do find a cure. It is an illness and we will one day find that cure.

I also think that I would feel much differently had my abuse been of a violent nature. Anger begats anger, and I know that I would want my perpetrator locked up forever and the key thrown away. There is no choice but to lock away those who are in addition to everything else, violent and physically cruel.

The life of the survivor I created during the period of my abuse has not been totally ruined by my SA. He has lived a pretty normal life with many joys and successes. The life of the child who was raped over and over by his father, however, has been pure agony, even when I didn't know he existed. It was always a "why" in my life. I could never understand the depression, the lack of self-worth, the vague question of my sexual identity, the seemingly irrational hate of my father....

We absolutely cannot risk the children if there is any way to protect them. I see them. I look into their eyes. I see the sadness. I feel the despair. And any chance there may have been for my having any sympathy at all for any perpetrator simply fades away.

Bobby

_________________________
I'm healing now, and I wasn't sure I would.




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#32974 - 04/20/05 07:10 PM Re: Ignored importance.
Brandon61 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 28
Treating the perps does not excuse their behavior. I think we all are pretty much in agreement that we don't cure sexual predators. Lock them up, identify them, and do everything we can to keep our children safe are really our only options.

Where we can make a difference is in dealing with the abused. The hard posts are the ones that challenge us. We get those universal feelings like:
Quote:
It was always a "why" in my life. I could never understand the depression, the lack of self-worth, the vague question of my sexual identity
Thanks for posting that Bobby. What you expressed so well is common to many of us.

My perp was not a family member. I didn't have the confusion of loving him and wondering why he did what he did if he loved me. And yet the outcome for me was much the same as yours.

Those of you who have dealt with this could provide some insight here. Live dangerously and post something real.


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#32975 - 04/21/05 12:08 AM Re: Ignored importance.
Malidin41 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Utah
To be honest I am nervous to post anything more on this thread for fear of someone telling me once again that "I should let my feeling and thoughts die" I know that this is not the exact quote of what the individual said to me but that is surely how it felt to me. I live in confusion about many things when it comes to what happened to me. To the point of where I question what my brother did. Wheather it was abuse or not. I have so many feelings going on inside me some of which are what society or other victims would call normal. But I also have the feelings that conflict with those. Which are I am supposed to love my brother. He is supposed to love me. These are just a few things to corrupt what is "NORMAL" I hate the confusion. I hate not knowing wheather I should love or hate. So because of this I post messages like the above to hopefully find support and possably a sence of understanding to make the extream confusion more bearable. I wish sometimes that I could be normal and agree with everyone that all abusers are horrible monsters that need to rott away in a living hell forever. But as I posted above I cannot. I hated and dispise what was done to me. And no matter how much I hate for some reason I can not wish this pain on to anyone. I pray that I do not hurt anyone hear. That is not my intent. I am just like you all, seeking understanding and support. I am lost and have been for so long. I am hurt and very confused by that hurt. I just want to share what is inside my bleeding soul so I do not crumble within myself. All I want to do is find my healing salvation, nothing more. I do not know what else to say hear except I appreciate all that have made understanding comments on this thread and I appreciate all of your time.

_________________________
Mother of the kingdom of silence I have obeyed you long enough!!!

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#32976 - 04/21/05 12:26 AM Re: Ignored importance.
Happy Birthday Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Malidin
I was never abused by a family member, just people who should have cared for me in my parents abscence.

But I do have an older brother who emigrated to Canada just at the exact time my abuse started.
I adored my brother back then, he was always good to me and looked after me. And just when I needed him most he went away, it took me a long time to get over that. Today we very close once again, but we nearly didn't make it.

'Family' is a deep and difficult thing, and many people struggle with feelings of love and loyalty when a family member goes astray. The struggle you, and all the others who have been abused by family members, go through is beyond my imagination.

So maybe I can't help much, but keep talking about it. That way your ideas, thoughts and emotions become clearer.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#32977 - 04/21/05 02:44 PM Re: Ignored importance.
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
Quote:
Originally posted by Malidin41:
To be honest I am nervous to post anything more on this thread for fear of someone telling me once again that "I should let my feeling and thoughts die" I know that this is not the exact quote of what the individual said to me but that is surely how it felt to me.
As I am the person who suggested to let THIS THREAD die, I am sorry that you took that as me telling you to let your feelings and thoughts die. That was not my intent.

I still do not agree with your feelings. I do not see that I ever will. These people who took away a part of us, the innocence of our lives, the safety, trust and security, are NOT human. That you see them as such, that is fine. You are obviously on a higher plane then I am. But I see two friends right now suffering so much from the actions and threats, ongoing threats, from these 'men' and I have no sympathy for their aggressors. Myself and another person have made official police reports against one of these men. It is more then a year later, and apparantly said reports were 'lost' somehow. I think my tolerance and patience for these creatures is tested enough by knowing they still exist, still have famiies and jobs, and not have to take medications for being nuts from the past, do not have to go to therapy, do not have to question their manhood every day. Sympathy for their 'addictions'? No, never, period.

I apologize that my previous comment you took as telling YOU to shut up or whatever. But I stand by everything else I said then, and here.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#32978 - 04/22/05 02:09 AM Re: Ignored importance.
Brandon61 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 28
So much for being subtle. Leosha, we don't really give a f**k if you agree or disagree with how someone feels. You don't have the right to judge other's feelings.
If you don't like the thread, pass it up.


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#32979 - 04/22/05 05:49 AM Re: Ignored importance.
markw Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 52
Loc: chicago
I do not think that these perverts have an illness. They are just plain evil. They destroyed any sense of a normal life for their victims. I for one have no pity or forgiveness for them. Too much emphasis is put on the perpetrator, their rights, and their care, what they feel. What about us, the victim? Who helps us rebuild our lives? I have never had a normal life because of what has been done to me. My life was changed forever on that day. There is such a thing as righteous anger. My anger for what has been done to me will never fade. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

Mark


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#32980 - 04/22/05 07:26 AM Re: Ignored importance.
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
I hope this thread does not go thermal! I hope everyone realizes that it is a delicate subject. I was raped at knife point in 1968 by a stranger. For most of my life I felt he should be killed or hung by his balls, until they dropped off. If somehow they were to catch him today I think I would still go with the hang by his balls.

However in 1998 when I moved back to Texas, I met my old high school friend again in 2000, we bumped into each other several times, and in 2002 I decided to tell him that I had been raped in 1968. Two weeks later I was on the internet, and decided to lookup the sex offenders I saw my friend on the web site for INDECENCY WITH A CHILD (3 COUNTS) & AGGRAVATED SEXUAL ASSAULT OF A CHILD. He got 10 YRS ADJUDICATION PROBATION. One week after that I bumped into him again, just by looking at each other, he knew that I knew. I have not see or talked to him for three years.

I also wonder if ostracizing him is the best thing to do. I also wonder if he is getting any type of preventive counseling.

TRIGGERS!! Jake Goldenflame is an admitted child molester. These are web pages about him, his book, and on the last page you can hear a interview he did. Where he talks about what he thinks should be done to/with sex offenders.
http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200302/tows_past_20030225_b.jhtml
http://www.calsexoffenders.net/
http://overcomingsexualterrorism.com/
http://www.johnandkenshow.com/index.php?p=534

Big Triggers!
Male rape in us prisons. Because I was raped these stories were hard to read. Take care when reading!
http://hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/voices.html

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#32981 - 04/22/05 07:42 AM Re: Ignored importance.
andrew76 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 118
Loc: Florida
Family abuse can really screw with a persons raw emotions and how the person views the family member as I was abused by my adopted father.I know something happened in vietnam to my father but as for what i don't know but it turned my abuser into the worse drunk a person had to be around the abuser did not care about what or whom he effected.

My perp went to prison served time on probation after prison and just last year was released so i know he is still out on the streets question still remains just as another posted is he re-offending because he did not receive proper treatment as my abuser turned gay or was gay before he went to prison just did not admit it to himself until he and my mother divorced because of the openness to tell my mother.

On one hand my perp/bastard father i looked up to however on the other hand i despise with a passion now after everything i had to go through over the last 10 years.A lot of people think it is easy to walk away from the abuser when they are unknown to them when it is a family member it is completely different they remember what the person looks like, lived like,smelled like,acted like,how at one time that person may have been someone the survivor looked up to then the abuse takes place and then everything drastically changes in the survivors thought process and how they now view that person for life especially if they have to face their abuser at family functions when no one else would believe them when they spoke up about the abuse.

I myself spoke up about the abuse to family members and was told no your father never did that to you even though my abuser admitted to the cops after being confronted in family counseling and was told he either turn himself in or the counseling service would do it for him.

Feelings for the abuser when it is someone close such as in my case can really play mind games on your every day life because there might be memories that surface of the person before the abuse that may have been positive that in return gets so clouded that the survivor does not know which was is up or which way is down.It plays with the survivors head like a YO-YO one minute it can be positive memories next minute it is re-living the nightmare of the abuse the only way a survivor can live on to be a real survivor is to get help themselves even if that means the survivor has to pay for the therapy themselves in order to feel whole or back to some sort of order in their lives it does not mean the abuse will ever go away it just means the survivor finds alternatives to cope and deal with the after effects.

I agree that the perp/abuser needs help as well regardless if it is court ordered or not as with the cases in my state of Fl right now we are watching prime examples of a person with no treatment or treatment that did not work because the abuser either did not care to receive treatment or plain out can't stop themselves because in their mind the only way the abuser can and will abuse is by a part of their mind that the person can't and won't control themselves and those people are the ones that do not belong in society on the other hand am i saying to forget about the abuser once released hell no,they must register their info so we as citizens and as survivors can hopefully protect the children in our own communities in which we live in daily as a survivor would not want to see another human being or child harmed like we were when we were their age.There are enough survivors out in this world to make a difference it just takes one to start the chain and it takes a strong link to keep that chain together to bind against harm to another child.We let out people every day from prison that some change and others get more angry as more time goes by what am i saying by this some people can change themselves if they so choose others all the help in the world won't make a hill of limas.

Should we as survivors now allow our abuser/attacker to manipulate the rest of our life hell no but abuse has a way of creaping back into our every day life just as with anyones past it has a way of letting it self be known to others and that is when it is time to take a stand and voice "We will no longer be Silent" but on the other hand the survivor does not need to display themselves publicly if they don't want to or have to but we as survivors need to come together and voice "No More Abuse" and really mean it like a protester that is trying to make it known to the public what they are trying to get across. We as survivors must do the exact same thing but in legal terms not to be the offender on the street corner looking for trouble but rather a solution to an on going epidemic in our world this is the only way we can make an impact upon others and let them know who we are and what we stand for and how we can help and if they need help they can seek us out for information instead of them years later saying to themselves darn I wish I would have known sooner there was help out there to get me through the shame,depression,thoughts of worthlessness,thoughts of suicide,thoughts of what is happening to me and is this wrong,Am i alone in my abuse and are there are others out there that share the same situation that has happened to me so I can survive and make something of myself and prove the abuser wrong and prove the abuser that that person is not needed or wanted but that they need help.

I hope this helps some understand what my views are even though I am madder then hell at my abuser for not showing to confront him obviously my abuser does not care and does not want to deal with being confronted as he would then have to think and feel the shame and public humiliation for what he did rather he would rather dodge the issue and that is fine with me I know where he is where he lives and i know who I must protect next door to the abuser the kids living next door so hopefully they won't get harmed and I can't say damn I should have done something about it when I can help those that don't know or those that can't help themselves. \:\)

_________________________


Eye of tiger stares down perp,tiger teeth rips perp to shreds
to be abused kills the soul
to survive is to live the ultimate punishment

Knocking on hells door!!

To be silenced is an American amendment right violation,free speech

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