Newest Members
dspwilson, Won'tGiveUp, sillyputty, Pytbull, manipulated
12384 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
4gettingthepast4 (32), DougL (53), Jeff38 (48), lfp (27), pats121 (75), Texan (57), zer0sleep (35)
Who's Online
0 registered (), 29 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12384 Members
74 Forums
63653 Topics
444536 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#32962 - 03/28/05 07:46 AM Ignored importance.
Malidin41 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Utah
Anger, Rage, Trauma, Guilt, Aggression, Isolation, Despair, Depression, Revenge, Hate, Distrust. Strong, deep emotions- Some of the language of abuse.

All of which I have felt and struggled with. Where does it end? I am writing this paper because I want understanding, not only for myself but for an entire society. A society that has failed and continues to fail myself and everyone who has experienced abuse. Because of my experiences I have set out on a quest to learn everything I can about this complex issue and I continue to learn every day. Thankfully society is beginning to wake up and take a stand on trying to straighten this issue out. But unfortunately I believe society is continuing to ignore and ignorantly overlook a very vital aspect of this torturous cycle. To understand and explain what this aspect is we must look at the entire cycle. Where does it start? Why does it start? How does it start? And most importantly HOW DOES IT END? I believe society is ignoring other things about this issue but the most important thing we must stop ignoring lies in the last question. Before we get into that, lets break down the other elements of the cycle.

Where does it start?- Abuse can start anywhere. In your home, in a park, under a bridge, in a car, etc. But the important part of this question is that it always starts with the perpetrator!!! The child is never to blame for what a perpetrator DECIDES to do. Children are often blamed by their perpetrator or by themselves because they think they started the abuse. They believe that because they wanted it or because it felt good, that it was their fault. Please, I beg you, do not do this to yourself. You were a child wanting love, affection and attention, things we all deserve, need, and want. The perpetrator took advantage of that and used you for their own gratification. The perpetrator unfortunately used you to continue a part of his cycle. That part being one of the first things a perpetrator must have in order to offend- the desire to abuse. Children are ALWAYS completely innocent. They have a very important need in order to survive, grow and learn. And that is to be loved. Unfortunately many people take advantage of that and destroy the innocence in our youth. No, children are never to blame! They are innocent and deserve so much more than that.

Why does it start?- This is where I believe society is beginning to fail us because we have yet to really understand the question. How is it possible for a person to inflict this horrible pain onto such innocent children? We have come up with theories, beliefs, and ideas but I do not think we have found the true answer. Is it because these perpetrators are monsters? Is it because they have a mental defect? Is it because they just don't care about anyone other than themselves? Because of the complexities of this question I have to give society a break and realize there can be many different reasons. But I think we should really crack down on this question and figure it out or at least learn as much as possible to understand why it happens. Then maybe we can begin to break and stop the continuing cycle. I also understand that there have been many studies already on this question. But I think we are far away from figuring it out and with the knowledge that we have on this matter we should be further along than we are.

How does it start?- Cycles in perpetrators usually begin with many different things. Depression, isolation, abandonment, social pressures, etc. While experiencing these feelings of powerlessness and social isolation, cycles continue on into other things such as fantasy thoughts which takes them to a place of gaining not only power but also acceptance, love, and a sense of worth that they feel they lost. Cycles can also begin at very young ages because of experiences children go through. If a child is being sexually abused and is never taught that what he or she is going through is wrong then that cycle that started with the perpetrator can continue on. This does not happen all the time and is definitely not a destined thing that will happen. But unfortunately it can. This aspect brings up another way I believe society is failing us and that is by ignoring the fact that children do not get the help they need when these unprecedented acts happen to them. For more details about this see the last question below.

HOW DOES IT END?- As I begin to think about what I want to say about this subject I begin to shake uncontrollably. I feel an extreme amount of anger festering inside of me because to me, society has done nothing to insure that abuse comes to an end!!! I believe society is so caught up in revenge that it cannot see the light of what could be a better tomorrow. I have read many books on child abuse. I have gone to many different therapists and I have studied many different theories. And you would think that with the knowledge we have we would have learned from our mistakes. But too often I see and hear about children getting lost in the gigantic craters we have created in our system because they do not "experience or show signs of abuse." So because of this they are sent back to school or home or wherever they are to go and FORGOTTEN. What kind of crap is this? Just writing this makes me want to throw my computer out the window in a fit of rage. Can't we see and understand that children create and build walls in order to survive? Can't we understand that because of these traumatic experiences children have to find ways of coping? Therapists need to take a step back and learn how to handle these situations much better than they do if there is ever going to be a chance for us to heal. You can not expect for our society to get better by just shutting your eyes to reality and forgetting about things. When children go through these experiences they need more than ever to be held and flooded with love because when delicate crystals are shattered like that they need to be molded back into something whole and beautiful. For a reality check on this I recommend everyone to watch a movie called Joshua. If you do not believe in God just watch the part where the lady shatters the glass in the barn. I believe there are certain things that make this world have a certain balance and part of that balance is the innocence of children and when that innocence is destroyed or corrupted the world becomes un balanced. We need to mend that innocence before anything can return to "normal".

The other aspect that we must stop ignoring is the fact that just as much as victims need help so do the perpetrators. As it stands now the only action we are taking is showing them our vengeance. We take these people, lock them in a tiny cell leaving them isolated and alone. They stay there for 20 years or however long their sentence is then we let them out with what? Nothing at all! Except more anger, hurt and many ideas how not to get caught again. We need to realize that what got them there in the first place as I stated above was isolation. It has been stated by many psychologists and people that have studied child sex offenders that in isolation is where their cycles begin. One of the ways and probably most important ways for sex offenders to stop perpetrating is to stop their isolation. So with this knowledge, because of our unimportant desire for revenge the very first thing we do is isolate them. Where is the logic in this? Secondly what does this do for them? When and where do they get the help they need to understand and overcome their horrible addiction? This is an addiction you know, just like alcohol, or drugs. An addiction that can be maintained and controlled if someone would just take the time to understand them and help them. It's an addiction that does not need to continue. When will we take the stand and stop all this insanity. Through my struggles down my path to recovery from what my brother did to me I was told by my therapist and many books that I read to look at pictures of myself when I was younger and compare the size I was to the size of my brother at the time the abuse was happening, so I could see that what happened was not my fault. Also so I could see that he was much bigger than I was and that I could not stop him because of his size. While doing this not only did I find and see what they wanted me to see but I also had another realization. I realized that he himself was once innocent to. That he was a child just like me. That he had feelings just like me and that he is a person as well that deserves compassion and love. Is this easy for me to say? Hell no. I want to hate him. I want to do many things to him that I'm sure you all can relate to but is this what needs to happen? No. I should have gotten help at the time. I should have been listened to and not ignored. And he should have as well. We are so quick to cast these people away because of what they did to us. But the fact is what we hate is what they did! There are many things that make up who a person is and being a perpetrator is a part of who they are. It is NOT ALL they are. As I make this statement a very old quote from Shakespeare comes to mind. "If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? And if you wrong us do we not revenge? So I ask the question again, what does it do for them by locking them in a tiny cell for years on end and then releasing them back into society? Well I believe it does many things and none of them are very appealing. First, they are isolated which I explained already. They become more hateful. They stoop into a greater depression. They dwell in despair. ("If you wrong us shall we not revenge.") So after they have "Paid their dues" we let them out and then what happens? Surprise, surprise they re-offend. Or they continue to stay in their depression and do nothing at all- and I mean nothing. And sometimes, because of whatever reason, a few of them actually strive to do better and seek out the help they need to overcome the addiction.

I am not by any means suggesting that we do nothing. Just as the quote that I stated above applies to that situation, it applies even more to the victims.(Us.) ("If you wrong us shall we not revenge.") Punishment needs to take place but I believe the punishment should not be more harm, but instead help to become stronger people. One of the earliest memories I have of the things I was taught about wrong and right is that two wrongs do not make a right. Letís all take a stand together and find ways of improving this society to make things right and get our proper revenge. Our voices back that scream out to be heard that this will NOT occur any longer. That abuse will die and return to hell where it belongs. That is our healthiest revenge. The return of our voice and the embracement of our power. Letís all stand together and end this epidemic.

_________________________
Mother of the kingdom of silence I have obeyed you long enough!!!

Top
#32963 - 03/29/05 12:29 AM Re: Ignored importance.
ForeverFighting Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: New Mexico, USA
I read your post and appreciate your anger. My first reaction, as you say, is, I agree! Don't lock them up. Just shoot 'em. Ok, Ok. I know. I'm just kidding. Mostly.

Anyway, I think we're missing the bigger picture here. SA isn't an individual. It's a family. And if the child could get help from the family, there wouldn't be SA. And if families got help instead of pretending nothing's ever wrong, abuse wouldn't happen. If my mom had gotten help or left my dad or.... I don't know. Done something! This could have stopped. Every person in the chain of abuse has a choice whether to be helpless or to help, whether to be evil or good. And if the whole family tree is poisonous, what do you do? The jail and the therapy need to come before the abuse. Society reacts. They don't and can't jump in until somebody gets hurt. THAT's what's wrong here.

I think the real reason nothing is done about SA is denial. Little old ladies and 80-year-old senators don't sip their coffee while contemplating that 1 out of 7 boys is SA. It doesn't happen. And the people who say SA happens are, well, they're just crazy. Because of course we don't live in a society where children are SA. Silly people. And if it does happen, its only down in the barrios, the bad side of the tracks. My perps each had a Phd in chemestry, both designing better bombs for the military or who knows what, both richer than I'll every be, and both prominent in their Presbyterian churches or wherever they choose to go nowadays, one volunteering to coach soccer for his neighborhood. [grrrrr] In other words, they're both admired and respected by the community. And are you out of your living mind? They would NEVER SA a child. Now, silly boy, return to your room and imagine something less perverted. Them go to jail? Yeah, right. That's how people like us ended up taking the blame the whole time. Even if I HAD told anybody, do you think they would have believed me? They don't even believe me now!

Which brings me to a second reason nothing will ever change. Do you suppose that none of the perps of these 1 out of 7 boys are in a political place of importance.

So we've got the ostriches with their heads in the sand, and the perps encouraging everyone to Please don't panic. There's no such thing as SA, and if you keep your head in the sand, everyone will be OK. Let's see, who does that leave? Oh yeah. Us!

Dispite my flippant reply here, know that I feel very much for you. It's a conflict we all deal with--reconciling those perp vs. innocent brother feelings. I'm glad you survived. And I understand completely wanting to throw your PC out the window. I've got a pile of them out on the sidewalk. I hope you find peace.

_________________________
ForeverFighting

"This search for the truth--it's not for the faint of heart."--Goren on 'Law & Order: CI'
"The former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17

Top
#32964 - 03/29/05 03:07 PM Re: Ignored importance.
Malidin41 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Utah
Thank you my friend for all that you said. I appreciate you taking the time to read this and I really like what you had to say. I am sorry that you are having a hard time finding people to believe you and I am sorry that your parents have not gotten help for their desease. But this is all the more reason that we all come together and take a stand to tell all those self indulged crack heads in high positions that this can not go on any longer. That it is not ok with how things are and things must change. I wish you luck on your journey and if their is anything I can do for you please let me know. You take care and have a wonderful day.

malidin

_________________________
Mother of the kingdom of silence I have obeyed you long enough!!!

Top
#32965 - 04/06/05 02:26 PM Re: Ignored importance.
Malidin41 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Utah
Just bumping this back up in hopes for more of a reply.

_________________________
Mother of the kingdom of silence I have obeyed you long enough!!!

Top
#32966 - 04/06/05 11:52 PM Re: Ignored importance.
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
I've had a lot of time to consider who/what my abuser could have been as a 'decent person' (I've had since 1969 to think about it).

He could have been a very good Scout Leader (hands off) or even a mediocre football coach (crap understanding of the rules but some commitment - or is it just all of those little legs running around in tiny white shorts). A good swimming coach - I know he certainly liked to 'help' me when I was wearing trunks!

He has a natural affinity towards young males (my guess is around 11 - 13 preference).

When I met him I was 12 & he was 32.

Outwardly within the community he appeared (until very recently when he was arrested) to be a friend to everyone.

To cut a very long story short, I am taking him to court for what he did.

He does not / will not admit what he did. He is in court for the second time in another 2.5 weeks to enter a plea. If he still does not acknowledge what he did, does not save me from standing up there with an audience having to repeat all of the detail....why should I even begin to care about whether he is depressed or anything else.

He abused me - I would never ever abuse anyone else.

My grooming actually started with air rifles & I'm a bloody good shot.

I just want him off the streets & don't particularly care what happens to him in prison. I've been in my own prison for three and a half decades... much longer than any sentence he'll ever receive.

I think that I speak for many people here (although I am speaking for my self) - if they do not truly repent, then **** them.

I think that Mike Church should be applauded for working with both sides of the coin, but he is a rare individual & I believe that Mike always prioritises the victims, but tries to educate the abusers (correct me if I'm wrong).

Victims / Survivors are very much at the forefront of my mind - perpetrators are very low down the list!

When my court case is over (whenever that may be) I will add other reasons for not giving a damn about the perpetrators of these crimes.

I hate what my perpetrator did! I hate what all perpetrators do!

Best wishes ..Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

Top
#32967 - 04/12/05 06:59 AM Re: Ignored importance.
Malidin41 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Utah
Thank you Rick I really appreciate your feedback. I understand more than you know what you are going through and have felt it my self!!! But what I am talking about is getting a much more satisfying revenge. Giving a much better punishment. And SENDING WHAT WE TRULY HATE DIRECTLY TO HELL WHERE IT BELONGS. I am talking about taking a major issue, a truely hateful, harmful issue and dealing with it fully so hopefully in time it will deminish the now going numbers of abuse victims. I am talking about exterminating a problem by dealing with it. You see right now with how we are doing things as I stated above proves to do nothing but give perpetrators time to think how to get away with it next time. We need to help them get over and deal with there adictions. I am not saying we have to like them or what they do. I am not saying we have to condone there behavor. I am not saying this at all I am saying that in order to stop a problem we have to deal with it and just putting them in prison will only stop it for a short while. The victims need help and the perpetrators need help. This is the only way it will ever end.

_________________________
Mother of the kingdom of silence I have obeyed you long enough!!!

Top
#32968 - 04/12/05 03:20 PM Re: Ignored importance.
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
Response may trigger.

Quote:
You see right now with how we are doing things as I stated above proves to do nothing but give perpetrators time to think how to get away with it next time. We need to help them get over and deal with there adictions. I am not saying we have to like them or what they do. I am not saying we have to condone there behavor. I am not saying this at all I am saying that in order to stop a problem we have to deal with it and just putting them in prison will only stop it for a short while. The victims need help and the perpetrators need help. This is the only way it will ever end. [/QB]
Sorry. I think this thinking is bullshit. There are many,many perpetrators who do not want 'help with their addictions'. There ARE services out there. Therapy services. Live-in treatment centers for sexual abusers. How many perpetrators go there willingly, on their own free will, because they WANT to stop what they are doing? I don't know the numbers, but I will venture to guess it is very few.

Perpetrators who go to prison DO receive therapy and counseling to deal with their 'addiction' (I HATE that f*cking word, it makes it sound like they are not responsible for what they do, which is also bullshit). What do I receive, as this person's victim? Do I receive free therapy or counseling, free medication to deal with flashbacks, anxiety, depression and suicidal thinking? No, if *I*, the victim, wants help, I pay for it myself. Because it is more important to 'rehabilitate' this baby raper, who most likely will NOT change, then to heal the emotional and physical scars he left on his victims. Nice.

You posted this here. You have bumped it back to the top several times to receive more responses. We have read your views. I think it is rather clear that most here do not agree with them. I would suggest it is good to let this thread die.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

Top
#32969 - 04/20/05 04:17 AM Re: Ignored importance.
Brandon61 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 28
Some make it to be survivors. Some stay victims. Some of us actually go on to recover and seek ways to change our world.

Attitudes say much about where you are and where you are likely to end up. Rage, anger, despair, shame, guilt and emptiness are just a few of the emotions we express here and find acceptance for. I'm grateful for being able to share my pain and find acceptance. There are also thoughts beyond the raw pain of abuse, and those are the ones I had to deal with to recover and shed my victimhood.

This is no place for personal attacks or rudeness.
I was appalled by a recent post that suggested not living was a better option for survivors of SA because society has failed to understand. If we should be able to find understanding anywhere, it should be here. Harsh, unkind words help no one.

I am continually amazed by the love and support offered here, so thanks to all of our encouragers.
I appreciate those who are willing to open up and face some issues that are very real to many of us.

So those of you on the road to recovery, don't be discouraged by those struggling to survive. For those of you dealing with the rawness of abuse, share your pain and find acceptance.

And whatever you do, respect and love those who come here.


Top
#32970 - 04/20/05 05:37 AM Re: Ignored importance.
ShyBear Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 149
Loc: The American South
Ratzinger is now pope, so be prepared for the clergy abuse scandal in the US to be stonewalled, which means it will re-generate itself.


Top
#32971 - 04/20/05 09:36 AM Re: Ignored importance.
LostinPA Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 120
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Who helps us still confused? You all seem to think you have answers to our recovery, but you don't reach us new guys where anger is our weapon, but shame is our introduction card. I don't like who I am right now, although I know deeply that I am an invisivble but empathic man the world has missed. Who will here my lonely voice?

_________________________
LostinPA
Ric

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.