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#328724 - 04/17/10 03:13 PM Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Another mind/body thing I've had has to do with eyes. (This is not a back problem except for being a pain in the rear end). I have a long-standing problem with strabismus*. My Mother told me that when I was a child, the problem would sometimes get worse. I now think that it got worse after I was abused.

It is cosmetically displeasing. (it looks funny for one eye to be looking one direction and the other at something else sick ). Also the problem has been linked with dissociative disorder I have had as a result of abuse as a small child.

I had an orchestra conductor make fun of me once, saying that I had one eye for the sheet music and one for the conductor. This was very embarrassing to me and made me feel bad. By that time I was becoming aware that the problem was somehow related to abuse I'd experienced. It was as though someone was making fun of me for something horrible that was done to me and that I had no power to control as a small child.

But this matter is not known to the eye doctors even today. They see it as simply a muscle imbalance problem. I had surgery once for the eye muscles by one of Philadelphia's best, but it proved ineffectual. The workup they did before surgery suggested that I used one eye for close-up and the other for distant vision. The doctor was very curious about this because it was so unusual.

I did have one eye doctor spot it correctly. When I was 15 and a very hurting boy, my father took me to the optometrist. My parents were beginning to become aware that I had problems. The eye doctor (Opthalmologist) told my father that my eye problem was because of "emotional problems". That eye doctor was the father of one of the astronauts in Apollo 13. (Dr. Swigert). In that day they called it "emotional problems". They didn't know much about that either.

But I have done enough work with psychological therapists and with vision therapists to be very certain that it is not merely an eye muscle problem with me. I have really worked at this. And I have experienced tremendous improvement. My optometrist was truly amazed because it's not supposed to be possible for an adult to improve this condition. One of the T's that I have seen suggested that the near-visioned eye was for sexual stuff because it was used in close-up and because the problem apparently started when I was a very small child. I felt a little huffy when he said that but maybe there was something to it.

So, my strabismus is apparently related to dissociative disorder. That explains why it can improve even when I'm an adult. It explains why I had to have a combination of psychological and visual therapy to correct this problem. I asked the T who administered EMDR therapy about this. He sounded out the optometrist who was my vision-therapy specialist about it (they went to the same synagogue). My EMDR doctor said: "He's a million miles away from it". In other words (my words) don't expect my vision therapist to be able to link the vision problems with my dissociative problems resulting from CSA (child sexual abuse). They can't and don't.

I think this is a big need in the field of strabismus research and practice to link strabismus problems with dissociative disorder. They apparently know nothing about this and yet it causes some of us a lot of grief.

I would appreciate it if any of you guys out there have had problems with this. I might be able to advise you on it

*strabismus = A visual defect in which one eye cannot focus with the other on an objective. Also called squint.

Allen

pufferfish whistle (fish eye)





Edited by pufferfish (04/18/10 12:14 AM)
Edit Reason: Dr. Swigert's name inserted

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#332639 - 05/31/10 09:50 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I've noticed this on babies I've held. I don't suspect abuse it is probably the normal occurence of it anyway I would always and without knowing why for a long time put my index finger up in front of their face a few inches away and move it back and forth slowly going just to the left and right of the head until they began tracking my finger with both eyes.
I never thought it might be an abuse thing. I know my tic is allegedly emotional and I have eyespasms where the outside corner of one eye feels like it is contracting and being pulled outward, but both eyes track as far as I can tell. Hmmm

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#332684 - 06/01/10 12:38 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
kidney,

Thank you for an intelligent response. I think babies have to develop normal depth perception. They aren't born with it. What you did probably helped them. Some people have more or less natural strength in this area. I had a natural tendency for problems with exotropia, and so of course that was one area where the problems expressed themselves. But just because a kid has a strabismis problem does not mean they are abused. Some just have it as an isolated problem. There are a bunch of us here at MS who have it as a problem apparently related to abuse.

I noticed that the movie star who recently died had strabismis (not Gary). Someone here said he had experienced abuse.


Allen

pufferfish


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#332700 - 06/01/10 11:41 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
My mom always said my left eye wandered but I've never noticed it. Apparently it is pronounced when I drink which is how she knew I had been drinking. My twitching that I notice and bothers me is in the right eye.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#332831 - 06/02/10 11:04 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: kidneythis]
Sacred_Sage Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 141
Well,

I can tell you that I suffer from the same condition. I've had three surgeries to correct it; however, in all three attempts, it has failed. I also do the same thing that you do with using the one eye for up close things, and the other for far away objects. The curiosity for me is that both eyes can work independently of each other or I can use both eyes try to focus on the object and fight over focus. I have been told that I should be blind in one of my eyes considering the way my eyes work; however, this isn't so.

After three failed attempts, my family and I went to the University of Iowa in Iowa City which is the premier medical school for the Midwest. Our eye doctor had pulled a few strings for us to visit one of her teachers who retired. He apparently was the best eye specialist around the Mid-west; however, since he retired, he only dealt with children. I was a young teenager at the time.

After he ran some tests, he discussed what he found with all of us. Basically, my mind is wired a certain way, and will not adjust back to normal working conditions even though the body is saying I'm essentially fixed. He stated that it was more of an issue of the mind which is what you have basically stated. So I guess in a way that you and me are very much alike.

Here is what I know from high school and college classes. I sat in for a class on a seminar about how abuse/rape alters the chemical make-up of the brain. It was very fascinating, and it's the latest research out there. But basically, we have three responses when it comes to danger: Fight, Flight, Freeze. In psychology classes, we are always talking about Fight and Flight; however, when those two options aren't feasible, we freeze.

I'll try to use an analogy for it. You take a picture of the brain, and that's what you use. It doesn't change, and it only happens during a traumatic experience. You are forever stuck at that same place in time. Today's therapy realizes that we cannot just simply talk it out. We have to use things that will release the brain chemically from that moment in time. Rapid Eye Movement Therapy comes from this, and there are many other options growing to help people through the traumatic experience.

So in a way, my problem and yours could be caused by abuse IF (and that's a big if) we have had been abused during the period of time between correcting the eye problems and the development of the eye problems. But anyhow, that's what I know.

Cameron

_________________________
http://youtu.be/HL297ZTYVRM <---- In case you ever wondered what I sound like.

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#332859 - 06/03/10 10:47 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: Sacred_Sage]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Cameron,

Thank you so much for your reply. It was very encouraging to me. I have been alone in this for so long and I have had to develop my own treatments (not difficult) outside ot the medical community.

Didi is frequently in MS here. She has a son who was abused at a young age, as I was, and he has similar visual problems. She now works for a Vision Therapy lab. She has shared some of her own insights.

Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

I can tell you that I suffer from the same condition. I've had three surgeries to correct it; however, in all three attempts, it has failed. I also do the same thing that you do with using the one eye for up close things, and the other for far away objects. The curiosity for me is that both eyes can work independently of each other or I can use both eyes try to focus on the object and fight over focus. I have been told that I should be blind in one of my eyes considering the way my eyes work; however, this isn't so.

Thank you again, your confirmation of my experience is so encouraging.

They don't realize that we are using a type of dissociation in which the eyes switch. They have no idea of this. They will someday. It just happens that we are in a position to experience something they haven't dreamed of yet.
Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

After three failed attempts, my family and I went to the University of Iowa in Iowa City which is the premier medical school for the Midwest. Our eye doctor had pulled a few strings for us to visit one of her teachers who retired. He apparently was the best eye specialist around the Mid-west; however, since he retired, he only dealt with children. I was a young teenager at the time.

I likewise have had some outstanding specialists, who seem totally befuddled by what I had going.
Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

After he ran some tests, he discussed what he found with all of us. Basically, my mind is wired a certain way, and will not adjust back to normal working conditions even though the body is saying I'm essentially fixed. He stated that it was more of an issue of the mind which is what you have basically stated. So I guess in a way that you and me are very much alike.

There is some significant new research about the brain's ability to repair and reprogram itself. People with strokes and brain damage from battle have achieved some really good results. We also can reprogram and repair that visual apparatus in our brains, but it takes work.

I mentioned I went to conventional vision therapy for a couple of years. This loosened up the visual apparatus (not a technical term) and strengthened the muscles and allowed me to converge both eyes on an image.

Then I had reached the limit of what they could do for me. I was given the message gently but firmly that I would not profit any more from the vision therapy. At first I was discouraged. My new insight came from a remark they made, that a brain damaged patient had regained 3-D vision through use of a randot program he watched on TV. I knew I could not perceive the randot patterns, and so I decided to try more simple mechanisms. I got a bunch of 3-D movies from Amazon. Then I began to watch them. I promised myself to watch at least 20 minutes per day, making sure that I made the 3-D picture "pop up" into my brain. I had to work at this. It took effort. Then it got easier and easier. If you wish I can supply a list of the 3-D movies I found effective. With the advent of new 3-D television sets, it might be a boon for guys like us.
Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

Here is what I know from high school and college classes. I sat in for a class on a seminar about how abuse/rape alters the chemical make-up of the brain. It was very fascinating, and it's the latest research out there. But basically, we have three responses when it comes to danger: Fight, Flight, Freeze. In psychology classes, we are always talking about Fight and Flight; however, when those two options aren't feasible, we freeze.

Yes that is right. I have a couple of books on recovery which talk about the freezing part especially.
Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

I'll try to use an analogy for it. You take a picture of the brain, and that's what you use. It doesn't change, and it only happens during a traumatic experience. You are forever stuck at that same place in time. Today's therapy realizes that we cannot just simply talk it out. We have to use things that will release the brain chemically from that moment in time. Rapid Eye Movement Therapy comes from this, and there are many other options growing to help people through the traumatic experience.

yes, and by the way, EMDR therapy also seemed to play back into this problem in a very good way. It may well be that they will find some better treatments to help with this problem. So many guys are getting brain damage from the war efforts.
Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

So in a way, my problem and yours could be caused by abuse IF (and that's a big if) we have had been abused during the period of time between correcting the eye problems and the development of the eye problems. But anyhow, that's what I know.

I was able to figure this out, although it was difficult. My mother had told me a long time before that my eyes got worse sometimes. Then it "hit" me that it was after abuse that they got worse. By the time I was abused at age 4 I had developed full coordinated use of both eyes. You can tell it from my pictures. My eyes are fully accommodated to perceiving things in 3-D. They were perfectly straight. Then as a teen, my eyes got progressively worse. I had such a heavy burden of abuse at age 12.

Thanks again for your input.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#332894 - 06/03/10 08:40 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Another thing I do is when I lay down I close one eye to watch TV. If I try to keep it open I can't focus and I soon forget and cloes it. if I try closing the other eye it isn't comfortable and I soon reverse back.

never would have thought about this in relation to my abuse Allen. Thanks

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#332927 - 06/04/10 04:22 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Thank you kidney for that contribution

It sounds like you have the ability to dissociate your visual fields. This is at the basis of my own problem.

I think I have made considerable progress in fusing. That's the word the vision therapists use so say that what the left and right eyes are seeing is unified. It can be done.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#332937 - 06/04/10 07:38 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I've never had a problem with my vision so I guess my brain has adjusted to whatever my eyes are doing.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#333583 - 06/12/10 03:31 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
I just read a preliminary discussion of the new 3-D TV sets in a popular consumer ratings magazine. I think they will be tremendous for guys with dissociation-related 3-D problems.

They are still too pricey at this point and there are not yet enough of the 3-D vids to watch. I think this might change rapidly.

There is something that will have to be watched however. When I first started treatments for my lack of 3-D vision, I started having tremendous flashbacks. This was good and bad. The good part was that was the first big clue that I had 3-D vision at some point in my childhood. The fleeting glimpse of the 3-D world opened up a pandora box that there was a lot lurking in my unconscious mind. The bad part was that the flashbacks were very powerful. Since I was usually driving when I had these, they almost had the potential of causing an accident.

Maybe some of you psychology types out there can tell me why I had flashbacks when driving. In fact my first glimpse of the abuse I experienced at age 12 was while driving. (To clarify this, I wasn't driving when I was 12, but as a middle-aged man I had vivid flashbacks in which I experienced abuse at 12.) Then much later it was when I walked down a long and visually boring hallway that I felt so intensely 12-years-old. All of these experienced quite a number of times.

Allen

pufferfish


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#340133 - 09/12/10 10:21 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Since writing the earlier post on eye problems, I have become pretty settled that the cause was an inherited weakness which was then amplified by flagrant abuse to what some call a hysterical conversion phenomenon. I recently posted about this problem in another location.

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...0053#Post340053

and

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=328724#Post328724


There is a pretty good article on this in Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereopsis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_disorder

I also developed aphonia as a young teen. This means an inability to speak. I went 3 to 3and a half years only being able to whisper. It came as a result of abuse. I was tortured and brain-washed by my perp to "never tell or I'll find you and kill you". My father also physically and emotionally abused me when I was 10 after I talked about abuse across the street.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphonia

Allen

pufferfish whistle





Edited by pufferfish (09/12/10 11:19 PM)

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#340138 - 09/13/10 12:10 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
This is very interesting to me. I have never heard of strabismus possibly having a connection with abuse. I developed strabismus in my early twenties. I never got an adequate answer as to why it came on at that time in my life rather than when I younger. I had surgery when I was 27 that corrected it. I also deal with dissociation. Maybe my experience with strabismus was unrelated to the abuse given its timing. I'm going to investigate this further though. Thanks Allen.

Mike

_________________________
My Story

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#341204 - 09/30/10 10:29 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: Barkabus]
didi Offline


Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 165
Loc: USA
_________________________
Raising children who have been loaned to us for a brief moment outranks every other responsibility!

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#341377 - 10/03/10 10:58 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: didi]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
didi

These articles are extremely important. There are bunches of us here on this site with these problems.

I recommend that when a "survivor" goes to the eye doctor that they print out the article(s) and take it to show him (or her)

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#350799 - 01/14/11 10:25 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Didi is a registered and frequent visitor to MS. She works in a clinical setting with folks who have eye problems (mostly children). They have trouble using their eyes together. It is not determined how many of them experienced abuse as children. Her son was subjected to abuse by a neighbor at age 4. Her son developed the same type of vision problem that I did at that age.

Didi has analyzed the pictures of my childhood in terms of strabismus (inability of the eyes to work together). Following is her analysis. (Her comments are in blue):

----------------------------------------------------------
Age 4 - before abuse. Normal vision.





--------------------------------------------------------
After abuse - beginning of progressive deterioration of vision.

Right eye strabismic jump to the right while the left eye is looking forward.



I was just barely 5 years old. I had experience abuse from a neighbor mostly when 4 years old. He took pictures of me and 2 slightly older boys in sexual acts (kiddie porn).

--------------------------------------------------------

Right and Left eyes converging inward (Convergence Excess)




Being abused by a 12-year-old boy. I was 6.

Convergence Excess - a clinical condition in which the eyes have a tendency to turn excessively inward when viewing an object at a near distance. Symptoms may include visual fatigue while reading or using a computer, occasional blurred or double vision, and inability to comprehend or concentrate while reading. Clinical signs include: greater esophoria at near than distance, high AC/A ratio, and a high lag of accommodation. Can be improved with vision therapy and/or glasses.


------------------------------------------------------------
Age 7. Second grade. (below)




The right eye is in and the left is out. (Starting to become Insufficiency instead of Excess)
Convergence Insufficiency - (clinical condition) the inability of the eyes to turn inward and/or sustain an inward turn. Symptoms include eye strain with reading and using a computer, headaches, loss of comprehension, difficulty concentrating, blurred or double vision, and eye fatigue. Clinical signs include: near point of convergence of greater than 4 inches (10 cm), greater exophoria at near than at distance, and low AC/A ratio. Vision therapy is an effective treatment option


--------------------------------------------------------------

The picture below was taken about 2 weeks after returning from the boy scout camp where I was sadistically abused for 2 weeks. I had a lot of sexual abuse for 2 weeks and torture non-sexual torture. I see my body in this picture as being twisted. My head is tilted and twisted and it almost looks as though I had a stroke affecting my left side. I had a marked and visible difference in the right and left sides of my face. This was because of dissociation due to the abuse. I had totally lost 3-dimensional vision.



Your head appears to be "twisted" because you completely lost your midline due to the eye teaming issue (which most likely was caused by blunt force in addition to DID) When you loose your midline, you have no idea where you are in space, therefore, it is difficult to establish where anything else is in space.


Eyes are clearly Not teaming together


------------------------------------------------------------------

Age 13. Following picture, age 13. An unhappy Christmas. Life was falling apart.




Head tilt to the right, shoulder down. Midline issues, intermittent suppression, Ocular Motor Dysfunction, Fusional Vergence Dysfunction - inability to efficiently utilize and/or sustain binocular vision. Symptoms include eyestrain, headaches, decreased comprehension, inability to concentrate while reading, excessive tearing, and blurred vision. A patient will have difficulty with both base-in and base-out prisms. Vision therapy is an effective treatment option.
In order to see 3D you need two eyes that work together as a coordinated team. Problems with binocular coordination- the successful teaming of the two eyes, can make three dimensional viewing difficult.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below. 14 years old.



Eyes are clearly Not teaming together
Divergence Excess (DE) (clinical condition)
The eye's tendency to drift out relative to the direction of a distant object being viewed. Symptoms include: double vision at distance, headaches, eyestrain, nausea, dizziness, and blurred vision. Clinical signs include: exophoria greater at distance than near, high AC/A ratio, and reduced positive fusional vergence at distance. Can be improved with vision therapy.


----------------------------------------------------------

Following is a reference web site for those who want to know more:

http://www.visionsource-htvc.com/media/794.14%20OCULAR%20MOTOR%20DYSFUNCTION%20ABNORMAL%20OCULOMOTOR%20STUDIES.pdf

(you might have to copy and paste this into your browser. I couldn't get it to work as a link)
--------------------------------------------------------------
didi adds the following comments:

One thing I do want to make clear is that, unfortunately, eye teaming disorders are often not recognized by anyone not "Living it" and most public educational systems. The public school system and Doctors not specifically trained in this field look for Visual Acuity only.

I also want to point out that you can't diagnose someone by looking at a picture of their eyes only. I know your history and symptoms; therefore, I was able to fill in some of the blanks. I am not a Dr. but I do see this every day.

didi

--------------------------------------------------------------


Allen

pufferfish whistle





Edited by pufferfish (01/15/11 02:07 PM)

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#351186 - 01/18/11 11:48 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
WriterKeith Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 945
Loc: southern California
Allen, this post, I am certain, has helped and will help many others understand their similar symptoms.

Looking at these pictures one can't help but wonder, "How could anyone harm that little boy?"

_________________________
"A burned bridge can be a gift; it prevents us from returning to a place we should have never been."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JfvAPZGjds

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#351263 - 01/19/11 04:23 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: WriterKeith]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Thank you, Keith

Yes, it was traumatic. The pictures don't begin tell the whole story.

I'm sure you understand about abuse of little ones.

I make some attempt to answer your question in the post:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=348873&page=2


It didn't go unnoticed:

"But not a single sparrow can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it."

I'm going to append a post on internal damage.

Allen






Edited by pufferfish (01/19/11 04:44 PM)

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#351528 - 01/21/11 07:44 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
I've been listening to the news coverage of the impending rehabilitation of Rep. Giffords. She faces some strenuous rehab. after her brain injury.

What strikes me, though is the similarity to what the doctors say she faces to what I went through.

I remembered the abuse I experienced as a 12-year-old when I was about 43 years old. At that time, the amnesia for my experience lapsed. I became aware of a level of traumatization to my own nervous system. I called the years following that as my "recovery period".

During that time I was undergoing vision therapy for my eye problem. I had to learn to "fuse" or put back together my visual field. When my eyes would momentarily come together, I experienced huge flashbacks. I had several different counselors for PTSD and the other problems. I had to do special exercises (actually brain exercises) to help "fuse" or put together other brain functions.

I went through a period of time with some recovery symptoms similar to that of Rep. Giffords. I would become extremely fatigued after some of the exercises. I would crave sleep. I needed the help and support of family and friends. In contrast to her experience, I was pretty much all on my own with little understanding or support.

Allen





Edited by pufferfish (01/21/11 07:51 PM)

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#351534 - 01/21/11 08:33 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
HOPE123 Offline


Registered: 12/21/10
Posts: 16
This is great information. I remember as a small boy (age 5) my mother took both me and my brother to the eye doctor. I had "Lazy Eye" also known as amblyopia. I was prescribed glasses and the eye doctor told me I would wear them the rest of my life. My parents divorced when I turned fifteen and guess what? I no longer needed glasses. My Perpetrator (My father) was now out of the house and my eyes got better. Coincidence? I don't think so...



Edited by HOPE123 (01/21/11 09:16 PM)

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#351537 - 01/21/11 08:41 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: HOPE123]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Hope123

That's really interesting and actually encouraging.

Allen


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#351562 - 01/22/11 10:57 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
TJ jeff Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 3365
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
hmmm... - really gets me to thinking...

as a young child I wore glasses - my eyesight was fairly bad (don't remember the exact number because i was so young when I started wearing them - but i do remember that they where pretty thick and that one eye was much worse than the other) - even wore the eye patch for a while to try to strengthen the weak eye - all of this was while i was being abused...

after the abuse ended my eyes started "magicaly" to get better until I quit wearing glasses altogether in high school (and have not wore glasses hardly at all since then - 20/25 vision)

another strange thing... - as a child I was tested for my dominate eye before i started learning how to shoot a gun (hunting is a family heritage) - I was right eyed... - somehow in the 6 years that I was in the military my dominate eye shifted from being right eye dominate to left eye dominate - every eye doctor that I've ever talked with says that it is impossible for a persons dominate eye to change... - makes me wonder if it is somehow related to the abuse of my past???

_________________________
Who will cry for the little boy? - I will... - Antwone Fisher

Abuse happens in silence/isolation - Recovery happens only when that silence/isolation is broken...

TJ's History

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#352893 - 02/05/11 03:24 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
Me123 Offline


Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 2
Hi,

I'm really glad that I found this discussion! I decided to become a member (even though I'm female). I was searching the internet for causes of strabismus because I've always had a gut feeling that my eye problems were related to my experience of CSA.
My eye turn was first noticed when I was 4 yrs old which was about the age when I think the abuse began. I say 'I think' because I had completely dissociated from the experience for many years. Interestingly, having surgery didn't improve my eye but it must have been around the time the abuser moved away from the area that my eye began to improve a little. Having therapy and moving closer to others improved my eyes even further.
I'm a firm believer in the strong link of mind and body and feel that my eye represented the dissociated part of me.
It's really good to hear similar views! smile



Edited by Me123 (02/05/11 05:39 PM)

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#352918 - 02/06/11 01:00 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: Me123]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Jeff and Me123

Thank you so much for your input on eye problems related to csa. I am also convinced about the connection of eye problems and strabismus.

My eye problem also seems to have started after abuse at around 4. I asked my mother about when it seemed to get worse. She said that it would get better and then worse again but she couldn't remember what my age was when that happened.

I have pieced together my childhood pictures, which clearly confirm what I said in the previous paragraph. After horrible abuse* at age 12, I completely lost it and my eyes were not together pretty much for 40 years.

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...0799#Post350799

This is my boring history: I believe that my childhood pictures show a progressive deterioration in my "eye teaming". Didi who works with children in vision therapy provided commentary on my pictures.

When I was 15, an ophthalmologist told my father that my vision problems were due to "emotional problems". Many years later I had unsuccessful eye muscle surgery when I was 32 at Philadelphia's highly regarded eye hospital. Then I had botox injections into eye muscles at Emory University Eye Clinic. The Clinic ceased the botox treatments. After I "remembered" abuse in my 40's, I started vision therapy. The vision therapy was completed unsuccessfully. But, several times during that period I was able to see with 3D vision briefly several times. When I saw the world briefly in 3D, I got horrible flashbacks. Then about 10 years ago I had another course of expensive vision therapy which ended with them telling me that I was a hopeless case and would never gain full use of both eyes together because in their opinion: "I never had it to begin with". So I started working on my own. I did eye exercises at home and then started watching the few 3D movies that were available then.

About 4 months ago I restarted doing eye exercises on my own after a lot of psychological counseling for csa. It was sometimes painful but I could tell I was making progress.

Then tonight I went to a 3D movie (Tron Legacy =I didn't love the movie but it was a great 3D experience). I told myself to just relax into the 3D experience. That means my psychological self had to relax. I started seeing the movie in strong 3D. It went on throughout the whole movie.

But. And this is the weird part. It became like a DID experience in reverse. That is, while I was watching the movie in 3D, it's like I reverted to a 12-year-old, and not just that but it brought up strong body memories of actually being abused. BODY MEMORY. This was not the ordinary experience of feeling like a child while watching a movie. There was actually a strong memory of the abusive situation when I was 12. The situation when I was 12 was when I believe I lost the 3D sensation. So isn't it logical that watching the movie in 3D would bring me right back to the abusive situation where I lost it?

Allen

* All csa is horrible, but some is 'more horrible'




Edited by pufferfish (02/06/11 01:12 AM)

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#352924 - 02/06/11 07:08 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
Me123 Offline


Registered: 02/05/11
Posts: 2
Allen,

I find this all so fascinating! I think we're really on to something here. I found this article interesting too that likens dissociation to the visual system:

http://www.legiontheory.com/pdf/Legion_Theory.pdf

I tried to find more but there doesn't seem to be much info on this. I can see also how my eyes have held a lot of the emotions of CSA experiences and the way that having strabismus cut me off from others.

I'd be interested in hearing more from you others with a similar experience. smile


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#352948 - 02/06/11 05:21 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: Me123]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Our vision is so closely connected to our brain. There have been several article - links posted here. I don't have time at the moment to dig them out.

We know that csa affects the brain. Why should it surprise us that it affects the eyes in a very specific way?

Me123, Thank you for the link to the article Legion Theory. I haven't read it yet but I will read it soon. I've always been a slow reader due to the matters we're talking about.

BTW The effect of the movie I saw last night was quite powerful. It was as strong as any EMDR treatment I've had. But I want to post caution on this. Going to a movie should not be regarded as substitute for EMDR or therapy. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time with regard to my therapy regimen and eye problems.

Allen





Edited by pufferfish (02/06/11 05:32 PM)

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#352958 - 02/06/11 09:34 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
Daniel_forgotten Offline


Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 479
its so hard to look at your pics for us. im sorry for everything allen.. wish neither of you had gone thru all that

i shouldnt been here in the computer but i couldnt help readin this.. we relate a lot:

2 alters have strabismus. we (dan, charles) havent ever noticed this but we know thanks to people who knows us and knows about DID (inside the family) they wouldnt appear in public. Dad knows when H. is up in front because he has a shoulder down. John can't speak, he only whispers. when the body was younger father used to take us to the doctor. they discovered each one of us had their own physical patterns. receantly while living in NY drs said our blood pressure, breathing ratio and heart beats are different when we switch. many of our personalities not only are deeply different in character but also physically.




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#353035 - 02/07/11 10:09 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: Daniel_forgotten]
TJ jeff Offline
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Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 3365
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
interesting thoughts come to my mind while reading of your 3D problems Allen

I've gotten headaches from a few of the 3D movies I've watched (and I'm not really sure I'm seeing the 3D experience the same as others do because a couple of movies where others have said the 3D was awesome I was'nt really impressed (coincedentaly those are the movies I got the headaches in))

right now I have an issue where my left eye won't focus properly (unless I close my right eye)(I'm guessing it's due to all of the family stress I'm under right now)

_________________________
Who will cry for the little boy? - I will... - Antwone Fisher

Abuse happens in silence/isolation - Recovery happens only when that silence/isolation is broken...

TJ's History

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#362195 - 05/14/11 03:46 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: TJ jeff]
Shadow+Walker Offline


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 287
Loc: desolate foggy nights, USA
I cant watch 3-D movies without my eyes watering and hurting...

I was diagnosed with a "lazy eye" when I was between 1st and 2nd grade (mid 70's, a few years after the most traumatic CSA had occured).

Today I just got home from my regular eye exam at the "Lens Crafters" type of place. I inquired of the Dr about the prism in my pre>
_________________________
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, love and self discipline. (St Paul, 2Timothy 1:7) NIV

Check out a cool song by a hot band..."Unbreakable" by Fireflight: official video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWRJAHaOrYg

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#362197 - 05/14/11 04:34 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: Shadow+Walker]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
I did it again.

I went to a big-deal 3-D movie. This time it was Thor. I again had a huge response. It was like a very, very strong EMDR session to me. When the movie was over I sat there an exhausted 12-year-old.

The tiredness and effects lasted several days, as did the effects of EMDR sessions I used to have. Remember that it was in the horrific abuse I experienced when I was 12 that I lost the 3D ability. I know I had it before because I went to see the 3D movies available at that time. They gave me a headache but I could see in 3D.

Apparently I respond more to the big-screen 3D productions with the 3D sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBCsiD-JGCA

The following Youtube clip claims the possibility of depression after seeing a 3D movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P0Rbe1ASuQ&NR=1&feature=fvwp

If you also get a reaction to things like this, please let it be known here.

Allen


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#362206 - 05/14/11 08:04 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: Shadow+Walker]
didi Offline


Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 165
Loc: USA
Quote:
I cant watch 3-D movies without my eyes watering and hurting...


The ability to see 3D requires that both eyes see equally well or work together as a team.

A lot of our patients do not understand what the "Hype" is all about when taken to a 3D

movie. It gives them headaches and looks blurry, not "Cool and Jumping out at you"



I found this explanation and it is in laymen's terms for all to understand:



Quote:
You can't see 3-D because you don't have binocular vision or are not using your binocular vision with the glasses. If your eyes don't point in the same direction, two widely divergent images are presented to your image processing centers, and the images can't be melded into a single view of the world with depth. The solution is to select one image and suppress the other. Peripheral vision continues to be used in both eyes. Sometimes the image from one eye is permanently suppressed.


This is not a small problem. It's something that needs to be treated. It's called strabismus. Sometimes people with strabismus develop another condition called nystagmus.

Binocular vision is learned generally by about four months, after which the cells responsible for this incredible feat of image processing very gradually fade, getting co-opted for something else or dying. People in their sixties have learned binocular vision, but it becomes difficult with age - just as learning a first second language becomes more difficult.


Treatment for strabismus can be as simple as eye exercises, patching and using prisms. Do something about this; don't go through life with hobbled eyesight and lacking the sense of depth perception. 3-D movies are one thing; driving is another far more important use of all the capabilities of your vision.


Be sure to visit a Behavioral Optometrist who is a member of COVD for your diagnosis.

_________________________
Raising children who have been loaned to us for a brief moment outranks every other responsibility!

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#362214 - 05/14/11 11:06 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: didi]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
didi,

I don't think it's just a matter of eye muscle control. Or at least I think there is an even larger component of psychological fear.

I think that something in my brain was so terribly scared when I was tortured that I lost control of this and other vital functions. I think that when I use my eyes together in the proper way it brings about a huge PTSD reaction, or maybe better stated, a huge flashback to when I used my eyes better and before the abuse involving torture. This makes it extremely difficult to use my eyes together.

Allen




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#362223 - 05/14/11 11:58 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
didi Offline


Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 165
Loc: USA
Hi Allen,

Quote:
I don't think it's just a matter of eye muscle control. Or at least I think there is an even larger component of psychological fear.


I completely agree with you Allen.



Vision Therapy is difficult with the CSA, I commend you for facing your fear to try and
achieve Binocular Vision. It is down right scary to have to live through a flashback.




Quote:
Child Abuse Important to the
Ophthalmologist
Approx. 4-6% of abused children have ocular
findings
Any ocular injury can be the result of abuse
All forms of abuse may have ophthalmic
manifestations
Therefore, most ophthalmologists who care
for children will at some time care for an abused child


Quote:
Sexual Abuse and the Eye:
Covert sexual abuse has also been reported
as a cause of functional visual loss or other
nonorganic visual complaints
Although it is certainly NOT recommended
that every child with functional visual loss be
questioned about this possibility, more than
50% of children with FVL have identifiable stressors in their lives.

This was taken from:


The Ocular Findings in Child
Abuse
Robert W Enzenauer, MD, MPH, FAAO, FAAP, FACS
Assistant Professor of Pediatrics
University of Tennessee, Chattanooga
Introduced by Patricia Moody, MD
Le Bonheur Grand Rounds
11 January 2006
The Ocular Findings in
Child Abuse
Robert W. Enzenauer, MD, MPH, FAAO, FAAP, FACS
Assistant Professor of Pediatrics
Department of Ophthalmology
University of Tennessee
College of Medicine - Chattanooga


_________________________
Raising children who have been loaned to us for a brief moment outranks every other responsibility!

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#363107 - 05/27/11 11:12 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Yesterday I watched the big-screen 3D movie Pirates of the Caribbean, On Stranger Tides.

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/disney/piratesofthecaribbeanonstrangertides/

It helps my eye problems at the stage I'm in and it's cheaper than vision therapy. But I have to explain this statement so that it's not misunderstood. I have had several years of vision therapy and I'm at the stage where a moving 3D target helps me to use what I've learned.

Allen




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#427624 - 03/09/13 11:33 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Doctors use vision therapy to treat traumatic brain injury. I'm sure I experienced that.

Here it is. This is what I've been trying to say all along:

http://www.dvidshub.net/video/283344/doctors-use-vision-therapy-treat-tbi#.UTwMIFc0_cw

Puffer

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#433031 - 04/30/13 12:34 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
I just watched this again. It only affects a small fraction of csa survivors, but it's very important to that group. This issue has not been addressed in my geographic area.

It seems as though the natural healing is ongoing. Things like watching large-screen movies, especially 3-D movies helps a lot. Some types of computer use seem to help. But more than that I believe I had stereoptic or 3-D vision as a small child before abuse. My mother once told me that. She believes that my stereoptic vision got better and/or worse throughout childhood. It got worse after episodes of abuse. She was not able to make that connection. But then with the terribly severe abuse at age 12, I totally lost it.

Well, it seems to come back on it's own, but very slowly. It's almost like a little plant that will somehow find a way to grow through a crack in the pavement. If I had received proper and knowledgeable therapy for it I would likely have had a pretty quick remediation of the problem.

So yes, I have just a teeny-tiny bit of anger that I was told the wrong thing by some vision specialists who said I would never be able to regain 3-D vision.

Puffer


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#436610 - 06/02/13 06:16 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
My opinion is that LAD had fairly severe DID. How would I know? I've had that with similar symptoms. In some cases such as mine and LAD's, the dissociation is experienced in the eyes.

I have had to work very hard on this problem. I have made great progress. If I had seen this picture earlier, I might have been able to make recommendations to him.



Notice that the eyes are not fully focused together. The bug-eye part is because he is having to work very hard to pull his visual focus together. I know about this. I've had it and still do to some extent.

The head tilt seems to go with it. I'm just recovering from that, but I've had to do the work on it by myself.

It starts out with early abuse such as I had, and apparently which LAD had. It causes a dissociation within the visual tracking areas of the brain. In my case I was able to hold it together until I was abused and tortured at age 12 in the Boy Scouts. After that my visual problem became much more severe.

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (07/19/13 12:22 AM)

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#436623 - 06/02/13 11:19 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
bey Offline


Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 204
Loc: canada
Hey Puffer,

I also have a DID diagnosis, but have never heard this about vision and eyes. Interesting and something to think about.
My thoughts are with LAD and all of our brothers who have gone too soon. CSA (and ASA)... I don't know, there are no words.

Peace

Benny

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#436624 - 06/02/13 11:22 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: bey]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Benny

This eye problem is definitely NOT in all cases of DID. It seems to be the exception.

Thank you for your message.

Puffer (Allen)

P.S. I'M collecting photos of guys with strabismus who seemed to have csa as the causitive factor, or at least a chief causitive factor. I'm not ready to post this information yet.



Edited by pufferfish (06/03/13 12:19 AM)

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#436723 - 06/03/13 07:06 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
Hi, my fraternal brothers.

Interesting subject.

I've always had eye problems as a boy. But, being a premature baby me & my twin sister made it to 28 weeks. She died at birth.

I as a young boy was diagnosed with Amblyopia. Amblyopia Strabismic. Refractive error-Myopia.Strabismus-Non-Paralytic.Hypertropia Constant Left Eye. Astigmatism, etc.
But way back in 1939 they put me in an incubator with 100% oxygen.
Thankfully they were more interested in trying to save my life than anything else. How long i was in one i never knew.
I always was seeing double images, i remember them to this day as when i was being punished & sent to my room I'd be laying on my bed playing with a match box car & in doing so i always had seen two images & they were not lined up. If i closed one eye looking at the car & then switched eyes the image would be in a different position.
I don't ever remember having any sort of eye exams prior to my entering the orphanage/Home. Most likely because we were a welfare family and only certain things were performed.
My feelings about that was because my "mom" wasn't interested in her unwanted kid & didn't do anything for him. I have no pictures of me as a boy wearing eyeglasses prior to entering that orphanage/Home.

Now, i was being emotionally, mentally, physically & sexually abused by "mom" starting at 5 years old & abated somewhat at the age of 10 as i went into an orphanage/Home for 9 months & was fresh meat during the summer school holidays and that lasted for 4 years. 10-14 years old.

I'm sure that the strabismus & other associated things mentioned were a result of the abuse.

There was an Air Force Opthamologist that said to me long after i had retired from active duty that his opinion is that being in that 100% oxygen incubator for an undetermined time was the cause of my eye problems. Back then he told me they didn't know much about the effects of 100% oxygen on a premature boy (meaning me.)
In all my field vision tests related to glaucoma I was never able to pass the test with my left eye, they just gave up on me and concentrated on my right eye.

Who knows? Thankfully I've managed to survive for 74 years. These past four have been the toughest in my life, since all this CSA stuff came to the surface.

Allen, where can i send you some pictures of me? Any special angle your face has to be? Please let me know how & where to.

Wishing all my brothers well in healing.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and i will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As he is me.

Pete..irishmoose.


Edited by petercorbett (06/04/13 07:48 PM)
Edit Reason: left our a few words.
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#455127 - 11/26/13 01:27 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: petercorbett]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
This visual problem is talked about in some of the books I have been reading on creating MK-Ultra or Monarch personalities in kids. That's what I believe happened to me and to LAD (in the previous post). (And to many others not discussed here). This stuff may seem hard to believe and I can understand this. I wouldn't believe it myself if I hadn't been through it.

This is the book which talks about visual problems arising from MK-Ultra programming in children:

Trance: Formation of America [Paperback]
Cathy O'Brien (Author), Mark Phillips (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Trance-Formation-America-Cathy-OBrien/dp/0966016548/

Cathy O'Brien even talks about them having inserted a wire into one of her eyes as an experimental antenna to transmit her visual field. Now I wonder if that procedure might have been tried on me because I had 20/20 vision in both eyes as a young child. Then after I was experimented on (I have called it the "tonsillectomy" because that's what I was told). The vision in my right eye degraded to 20/400.* It has never improved from that. I don't remember them doing this to me but I think I had been anesthetized. Other things were done but not reported in this post.

This matter is reported in this book:

How The Illuminati Create An Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave. Paperback. I don't recommend that everybody read this right off. It can be pretty disturbing.

Also it should be added that strabismus can apparently be caused or be made much worse simply by bad treatment (such as sexual abuse) of a child. This is apparently what happened with Pete (Moose) in the previous post. It has happened to many others.


Puffer

* This makes sense from the standpoint of how the eye works. When Cathy O'Brien had the wire inserted, some fluid leaked out. That would make the eyeball smaller. That in turn would cast the visual image behind the (virtual) retina and make it out of focus, or near-sighted. That's what could have happened to me. If fluid leaked out then the eyeball became smaller and hence near-sighted. My vision still is 20/400.






Edited by pufferfish (11/26/13 04:25 PM)

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#455129 - 11/26/13 03:02 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
I've had a book on healing of the 3-D apparatus in the human for a couple of years and it has been recommended to me by didi, who is an expert and who is an MS member.
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=5807

Fixing My Gaze: A Scientist's Journey Into Seeing in Three Dimensions hardcover, paperback or Kindle January 1, 2009. by Susan R. Barry (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Fixing-Gaze-Scientists-Dimensions-Hardcover/dp/B003YGVCWM/

This book is excellent and it is written in an authoritative way and is medically and scientifically appealing.

I've delayed in reading it until a few days ago BECAUSE I had a vision problem which interfered with reading. So, I'm about 1000 books behind in my reading list. Now I have a Kindle and it's reading to me. That REALLY WORKS for me. It reads to me books which were almost painful to read because of the problem.

I'm only about 1/3 of the way through but I'm excited about this book (and the Kindle). I've been told by some vision-therapists that my problem with fusion of my visual field from two eyes would never be achieved. That was very discouraging. Now this book demonstrates why excellent results can often be achieved with people whose eyes are like mine.

I have noticed an improvement in this spontaneously. Some things just seem to help.

I intend to add on to this report as I move through the book.

Puffer

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