Newest Members
tammy m, TheConqueror, Bloom, JohnWC, KKumar
12423 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
dphoenix1701 (37), jaywiz2009 (69), mato (57)
Who's Online
2 registered (2 invisible), 24 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12423 Members
74 Forums
63803 Topics
445536 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#328724 - 04/17/10 03:13 PM Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Another mind/body thing I've had has to do with eyes. (This is not a back problem except for being a pain in the rear end). I have a long-standing problem with strabismus*. My Mother told me that when I was a child, the problem would sometimes get worse. I now think that it got worse after I was abused.

It is cosmetically displeasing. (it looks funny for one eye to be looking one direction and the other at something else sick ). Also the problem has been linked with dissociative disorder I have had as a result of abuse as a small child.

I had an orchestra conductor make fun of me once, saying that I had one eye for the sheet music and one for the conductor. This was very embarrassing to me and made me feel bad. By that time I was becoming aware that the problem was somehow related to abuse I'd experienced. It was as though someone was making fun of me for something horrible that was done to me and that I had no power to control as a small child.

But this matter is not known to the eye doctors even today. They see it as simply a muscle imbalance problem. I had surgery once for the eye muscles by one of Philadelphia's best, but it proved ineffectual. The workup they did before surgery suggested that I used one eye for close-up and the other for distant vision. The doctor was very curious about this because it was so unusual.

I did have one eye doctor spot it correctly. When I was 15 and a very hurting boy, my father took me to the optometrist. My parents were beginning to become aware that I had problems. The eye doctor (Opthalmologist) told my father that my eye problem was because of "emotional problems". That eye doctor was the father of one of the astronauts in Apollo 13. (Dr. Swigert). In that day they called it "emotional problems". They didn't know much about that either.

But I have done enough work with psychological therapists and with vision therapists to be very certain that it is not merely an eye muscle problem with me. I have really worked at this. And I have experienced tremendous improvement. My optometrist was truly amazed because it's not supposed to be possible for an adult to improve this condition. One of the T's that I have seen suggested that the near-visioned eye was for sexual stuff because it was used in close-up and because the problem apparently started when I was a very small child. I felt a little huffy when he said that but maybe there was something to it.

So, my strabismus is apparently related to dissociative disorder. That explains why it can improve even when I'm an adult. It explains why I had to have a combination of psychological and visual therapy to correct this problem. I asked the T who administered EMDR therapy about this. He sounded out the optometrist who was my vision-therapy specialist about it (they went to the same synagogue). My EMDR doctor said: "He's a million miles away from it". In other words (my words) don't expect my vision therapist to be able to link the vision problems with my dissociative problems resulting from CSA (child sexual abuse). They can't and don't.

I think this is a big need in the field of strabismus research and practice to link strabismus problems with dissociative disorder. They apparently know nothing about this and yet it causes some of us a lot of grief.

I would appreciate it if any of you guys out there have had problems with this. I might be able to advise you on it

*strabismus = A visual defect in which one eye cannot focus with the other on an objective. Also called squint.

Allen

pufferfish whistle (fish eye)





Edited by pufferfish (04/18/10 12:14 AM)
Edit Reason: Dr. Swigert's name inserted

Top
#332639 - 05/31/10 09:50 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I've noticed this on babies I've held. I don't suspect abuse it is probably the normal occurence of it anyway I would always and without knowing why for a long time put my index finger up in front of their face a few inches away and move it back and forth slowly going just to the left and right of the head until they began tracking my finger with both eyes.
I never thought it might be an abuse thing. I know my tic is allegedly emotional and I have eyespasms where the outside corner of one eye feels like it is contracting and being pulled outward, but both eyes track as far as I can tell. Hmmm

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

Top
#332684 - 06/01/10 12:38 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
kidney,

Thank you for an intelligent response. I think babies have to develop normal depth perception. They aren't born with it. What you did probably helped them. Some people have more or less natural strength in this area. I had a natural tendency for problems with exotropia, and so of course that was one area where the problems expressed themselves. But just because a kid has a strabismis problem does not mean they are abused. Some just have it as an isolated problem. There are a bunch of us here at MS who have it as a problem apparently related to abuse.

I noticed that the movie star who recently died had strabismis (not Gary). Someone here said he had experienced abuse.


Allen

pufferfish


Top
#332700 - 06/01/10 11:41 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
My mom always said my left eye wandered but I've never noticed it. Apparently it is pronounced when I drink which is how she knew I had been drinking. My twitching that I notice and bothers me is in the right eye.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

Top
#332831 - 06/02/10 11:04 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: kidneythis]
Sacred_Sage Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 141
Well,

I can tell you that I suffer from the same condition. I've had three surgeries to correct it; however, in all three attempts, it has failed. I also do the same thing that you do with using the one eye for up close things, and the other for far away objects. The curiosity for me is that both eyes can work independently of each other or I can use both eyes try to focus on the object and fight over focus. I have been told that I should be blind in one of my eyes considering the way my eyes work; however, this isn't so.

After three failed attempts, my family and I went to the University of Iowa in Iowa City which is the premier medical school for the Midwest. Our eye doctor had pulled a few strings for us to visit one of her teachers who retired. He apparently was the best eye specialist around the Mid-west; however, since he retired, he only dealt with children. I was a young teenager at the time.

After he ran some tests, he discussed what he found with all of us. Basically, my mind is wired a certain way, and will not adjust back to normal working conditions even though the body is saying I'm essentially fixed. He stated that it was more of an issue of the mind which is what you have basically stated. So I guess in a way that you and me are very much alike.

Here is what I know from high school and college classes. I sat in for a class on a seminar about how abuse/rape alters the chemical make-up of the brain. It was very fascinating, and it's the latest research out there. But basically, we have three responses when it comes to danger: Fight, Flight, Freeze. In psychology classes, we are always talking about Fight and Flight; however, when those two options aren't feasible, we freeze.

I'll try to use an analogy for it. You take a picture of the brain, and that's what you use. It doesn't change, and it only happens during a traumatic experience. You are forever stuck at that same place in time. Today's therapy realizes that we cannot just simply talk it out. We have to use things that will release the brain chemically from that moment in time. Rapid Eye Movement Therapy comes from this, and there are many other options growing to help people through the traumatic experience.

So in a way, my problem and yours could be caused by abuse IF (and that's a big if) we have had been abused during the period of time between correcting the eye problems and the development of the eye problems. But anyhow, that's what I know.

Cameron

_________________________
http://youtu.be/HL297ZTYVRM <---- In case you ever wondered what I sound like.

Top
#332859 - 06/03/10 10:47 AM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: Sacred_Sage]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Cameron,

Thank you so much for your reply. It was very encouraging to me. I have been alone in this for so long and I have had to develop my own treatments (not difficult) outside ot the medical community.

Didi is frequently in MS here. She has a son who was abused at a young age, as I was, and he has similar visual problems. She now works for a Vision Therapy lab. She has shared some of her own insights.

Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

I can tell you that I suffer from the same condition. I've had three surgeries to correct it; however, in all three attempts, it has failed. I also do the same thing that you do with using the one eye for up close things, and the other for far away objects. The curiosity for me is that both eyes can work independently of each other or I can use both eyes try to focus on the object and fight over focus. I have been told that I should be blind in one of my eyes considering the way my eyes work; however, this isn't so.

Thank you again, your confirmation of my experience is so encouraging.

They don't realize that we are using a type of dissociation in which the eyes switch. They have no idea of this. They will someday. It just happens that we are in a position to experience something they haven't dreamed of yet.
Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

After three failed attempts, my family and I went to the University of Iowa in Iowa City which is the premier medical school for the Midwest. Our eye doctor had pulled a few strings for us to visit one of her teachers who retired. He apparently was the best eye specialist around the Mid-west; however, since he retired, he only dealt with children. I was a young teenager at the time.

I likewise have had some outstanding specialists, who seem totally befuddled by what I had going.
Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

After he ran some tests, he discussed what he found with all of us. Basically, my mind is wired a certain way, and will not adjust back to normal working conditions even though the body is saying I'm essentially fixed. He stated that it was more of an issue of the mind which is what you have basically stated. So I guess in a way that you and me are very much alike.

There is some significant new research about the brain's ability to repair and reprogram itself. People with strokes and brain damage from battle have achieved some really good results. We also can reprogram and repair that visual apparatus in our brains, but it takes work.

I mentioned I went to conventional vision therapy for a couple of years. This loosened up the visual apparatus (not a technical term) and strengthened the muscles and allowed me to converge both eyes on an image.

Then I had reached the limit of what they could do for me. I was given the message gently but firmly that I would not profit any more from the vision therapy. At first I was discouraged. My new insight came from a remark they made, that a brain damaged patient had regained 3-D vision through use of a randot program he watched on TV. I knew I could not perceive the randot patterns, and so I decided to try more simple mechanisms. I got a bunch of 3-D movies from Amazon. Then I began to watch them. I promised myself to watch at least 20 minutes per day, making sure that I made the 3-D picture "pop up" into my brain. I had to work at this. It took effort. Then it got easier and easier. If you wish I can supply a list of the 3-D movies I found effective. With the advent of new 3-D television sets, it might be a boon for guys like us.
Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

Here is what I know from high school and college classes. I sat in for a class on a seminar about how abuse/rape alters the chemical make-up of the brain. It was very fascinating, and it's the latest research out there. But basically, we have three responses when it comes to danger: Fight, Flight, Freeze. In psychology classes, we are always talking about Fight and Flight; however, when those two options aren't feasible, we freeze.

Yes that is right. I have a couple of books on recovery which talk about the freezing part especially.
Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

I'll try to use an analogy for it. You take a picture of the brain, and that's what you use. It doesn't change, and it only happens during a traumatic experience. You are forever stuck at that same place in time. Today's therapy realizes that we cannot just simply talk it out. We have to use things that will release the brain chemically from that moment in time. Rapid Eye Movement Therapy comes from this, and there are many other options growing to help people through the traumatic experience.

yes, and by the way, EMDR therapy also seemed to play back into this problem in a very good way. It may well be that they will find some better treatments to help with this problem. So many guys are getting brain damage from the war efforts.
Originally Posted By: Sacred_Sage

So in a way, my problem and yours could be caused by abuse IF (and that's a big if) we have had been abused during the period of time between correcting the eye problems and the development of the eye problems. But anyhow, that's what I know.

I was able to figure this out, although it was difficult. My mother had told me a long time before that my eyes got worse sometimes. Then it "hit" me that it was after abuse that they got worse. By the time I was abused at age 4 I had developed full coordinated use of both eyes. You can tell it from my pictures. My eyes are fully accommodated to perceiving things in 3-D. They were perfectly straight. Then as a teen, my eyes got progressively worse. I had such a heavy burden of abuse at age 12.

Thanks again for your input.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


Top
#332894 - 06/03/10 08:40 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Another thing I do is when I lay down I close one eye to watch TV. If I try to keep it open I can't focus and I soon forget and cloes it. if I try closing the other eye it isn't comfortable and I soon reverse back.

never would have thought about this in relation to my abuse Allen. Thanks

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

Top
#332927 - 06/04/10 04:22 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Thank you kidney for that contribution

It sounds like you have the ability to dissociate your visual fields. This is at the basis of my own problem.

I think I have made considerable progress in fusing. That's the word the vision therapists use so say that what the left and right eyes are seeing is unified. It can be done.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


Top
#332937 - 06/04/10 07:38 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: pufferfish]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I've never had a problem with my vision so I guess my brain has adjusted to whatever my eyes are doing.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

Top
#333583 - 06/12/10 03:31 PM Re: Eye problems (strabismus) related to CSA [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
I just read a preliminary discussion of the new 3-D TV sets in a popular consumer ratings magazine. I think they will be tremendous for guys with dissociation-related 3-D problems.

They are still too pricey at this point and there are not yet enough of the 3-D vids to watch. I think this might change rapidly.

There is something that will have to be watched however. When I first started treatments for my lack of 3-D vision, I started having tremendous flashbacks. This was good and bad. The good part was that was the first big clue that I had 3-D vision at some point in my childhood. The fleeting glimpse of the 3-D world opened up a pandora box that there was a lot lurking in my unconscious mind. The bad part was that the flashbacks were very powerful. Since I was usually driving when I had these, they almost had the potential of causing an accident.

Maybe some of you psychology types out there can tell me why I had flashbacks when driving. In fact my first glimpse of the abuse I experienced at age 12 was while driving. (To clarify this, I wasn't driving when I was 12, but as a middle-aged man I had vivid flashbacks in which I experienced abuse at 12.) Then much later it was when I walked down a long and visually boring hallway that I felt so intensely 12-years-old. All of these experienced quite a number of times.

Allen

pufferfish


Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >


Moderator:  ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.