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#329031 - 04/20/10 09:32 AM Re: What makes me do this? [Re: JBells]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 264
Loc: Undisclosed
Jbells, I feel all that you feel, the guilt and shame. The difference between the two is important. And guilt comes from compromising your own morals, so I can see why that it is much stronger for u, it all fits together so cruelly. Find a positive intervention act.or behavior when you feel triggered. Do it once and see.


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#329032 - 04/20/10 09:33 AM Re: What makes me do this? [Re: JBells]
Shaun The Sheep Offline


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 188
Loc: West Coast
*



Edited by Shaun The Sheep (04/01/11 11:32 AM)

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#329037 - 04/20/10 10:14 AM Re: What makes me do this? [Re: Shaun The Sheep]
expom Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 123
Loc: Australia
J Bells,
May I offer my opinion? This comes from someone who has lived the hell you describe.

I was shown a number of years ago that the only difference between sex and rape is consent.

At the age of 10 you were legally and developmentally unable to consent to something that you knew no implications of.

I was shown that it is a survival technique that we use in order to minimise the continuing pain and trauma that we go through, that we re-live those experiences - deliberately putting ourselves in detestible situations - in order that we can apply a veneer of consent. Us going back to those abusive situations is an attempt to make them feel less traumatic. Of course it only lasts while it is happening and afterwards we feel re-traumatised.

So what do we do about it? I was shown that it helps if we can put in a delay tactic then we can outlive the drive to act out. For example, for me that meant I would say to myself "OK, I feel the need to go and engage in 'risky behaviour' and act out, but I'm going to wait until my day off and see how I feel then and if I still feel like it then OK off I go".

Often the crisis would pass in a few hours or days and I didn't act out. I felt good. I learned that it is possible to avoid the bad feelings. Still I tripped and fell - it wasn't plain sailing. But I learned to extend the deadlines. I learned to substitute the acting our for ever softer porn.

Using this technique I have not acted out in about 3 years. Its many months since I set out to look at naked men on line. I feel that I have re-claimed my sexuality and preserved my 28 year marriage.

Shyte it has not been easy. I have made some friends along the way that have been OK with me calling them late at night - without telling them that their answering the phone will mean that I don't go out and do something that I will regret.

Yes I am in counselling - and have been for 6 years but this is one subject that I have dealt with alone - one last vestige of privacy in an otherwise life laid bare.

I offer this to you as a way that has worked for me. First understanding, then delaying then avoiding and then celebrating what I have achieved.

I do not offer myself as a super human - I am a man tormented as you are by an objectionable period in his growing years.

I know, categorically KNOW that it is not a place that you have to remain in. There is a way out into however you wish to celebrate your sexuality of choice.

I wish you well and encourage you to have a go.

Endure and Prevail

ADen

_________________________
I endured all my yesterdays. I prevail in all of my todays. I exercise my right to be able to enjoy my tomorrows. I choose not to do it alone.

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#329038 - 04/20/10 10:42 AM Re: What makes me do this? [Re: expom]
JBells Offline


Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Juneau
Again, thank you to all who have replied to this.

Aden, thanks for the input.
When you say the only difference between sex and rape is consent. I would agree with that but I am also conflicted about that on a personal level.

Sure, I voluntarily go over there and put myself into these situations. I consent to getting into a scene with this person, but once I'm there and things start to roll there is no more consent and it sure as hell feels like rape to me. As sick as this may sound and as messed up as I am about it, that's what thrills me about it. I truly hate myself for feeling that way but I can't deny that I have these feelings.

Do I blame him for all this? Well, yeah when I was 15 years old and he, a guy much older than me took advantage of my bad and vulnerable situation, yes that was wrong. But now that I'm older and can make my own decisions and take responsibility for my own actions, no I don't blame him. After all, if I don't respect myself why should he?

And continuing to be honest with myself, you know the whole thing about the BDSM lifestyle is that it's about trust and safety and consent and safe-words and all of that.

Somehow I took this so far with him that none of that applies any longer. Once I'm in the position where I'm powerless, I am truly powerless. It doesn't matter what I say, what I do, what condition I am in mentally or physically, he only stops when he's ready too and when he's done, I'm gone, tossed out like yesterdays garbage. Sometimes that feels good to me and hours later I'm always full of suffocating regret.

Well I've laid it all out on the table now and I'm pretty ashamed of myself. I'm burning with embarrassment but as I said above, I have to be honest with myself if I want to get through all this. So I'll take my medicine as bitter as it might be. No sugar coating please!

This isn't all that I am but it's a big part of who I am. I don't know if I can accept that.


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#329057 - 04/20/10 12:30 PM Re: What makes me do this? [Re: JBells]
Shaun The Sheep Offline


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 188
Loc: West Coast
*



Edited by Shaun The Sheep (04/01/11 11:32 AM)

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#329088 - 04/20/10 08:44 PM Re: What makes me do this? [Re: JBells]
TheBobcatAgain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 506
Loc: AZ, U.S.A.
JBells,

I read your last reply, and I knew I needed to respond to it. So here goes...

First, understand that you are not alone in how you feel and act. I replied earlier that I reenact my abuse through masturbation, and that I feel ashamed of myself afterward. I think you and I are facing roughly the same issue. So the rest of this reply is as much for myself as it is for you.

First, let's ditch our shame of ourselves, buddy; you and me. Shame doesn't accomplish much by itself, and it certainly hasn't changed our behaviors. In fact, the more we abuse ourselves, the more shame we feel, and that isn't healthy for either of us. This might help us to abandon that shame:

Abusing ourselves is a coping mechanism. It's not a good one, but I don't see it as much different than abusing alcohol or drugs. The ways in which you and I abuse ourselves are not immoral, or sinful, or criminal, or hurting anyone else; they are just coping mechanisms. So let's you and I understand that these coping mechanisms, while not terrific, have at least brought us to this point in our lives. Now let's start getting rid of our shame (which wasn't warranted in the first place) that we had to use these coping mechanisms, and start looking for better ones. Do you agree, buddy?

Next, I want to look at these statements in your last reply:

"I truly hate myself for feeling that way..."
"After all, if I don't respect myself why should he?"
"Well I've laid it all out on the table now and I'm pretty ashamed of myself."

I have said these same words too, buddy, countless times. My thoughts are that we don't love or respect ourselves. So let's relax a little, you and I - we've both been there and now we each know someone else who is/has been there as well. Since our respective abuses are likely to blame for our lack of self-love and self-respect, let's skip that and move on to what we are doing about it.

My theory is that my being raped fantasies during masturbation and your desire to be overpowered sexually are both similar attempts to recreate our abuses. Why would we do that? I think we do it to justify not loving ourselves. If we truly loved ourselves, would we try to recreate our abuses? Probably not. I think you and I are trying to punish ourselves, because it's easier to punish ourselves than try the much harder alternative - loving ourselves.

Here's my train of thought:
* We felt we were good people once, and then we were abused. When we were abused, we were taught to feel guilt and shame.
* If we feel guilt and shame, then we must not be good people anymore.
* If we are not good people anymore, then we shouldn't love ourselves.
* If we don't love ourselves, then we should hate ourselves and punish ourselves and feel shame in order to change.
* How should we punish ourselves? Here's a thought: let's hurt ourselves the way our perps hurt us; that was successful, after all.

I think that explains why you and I punish ourselves by our reenactments. I think you and I are trying to change our lives while simultaneously punishing ourselves for the abuse. Since the two don't seem to work well together, let's ditch one of them. How about...let's ditch the punishments?

Okay. How do we do that, though? Well, let's work backward through my train of thought:
* If we don't punish ourselves, we might learn not to hate ourselves.
* If we learn to stop hating ourselves, we might learn to love ourselves.
* If we love truly ourselves, we might learn to let go of the shame and guilt we were TAUGHT to feel.
* If we let go of those teachings of shame and guilt, then we might truly understand that our abuses were not our faults, and that we still are - AND ALWAYS WERE - good people.
* And that will reinforce us to love ourselves.

There's our motivation, buddy. Now comes the hard part: the work. #1: We need to stop punishing ourselves, and it won't be easy. Punishing ourselves is easier than learning to love ourselves, but we've been punishing ourselves for a looong time, and if it's so effective, why are we looking for a better solution? Punishing ourselves doesn't help you or me, buddy; learning to love ourselves will.

JBells, do you want to punish yourself the rest of your life for something that wasn't even your fault in the first place? I don't think you do, and I know I don't. Let's try this together, okay? We'll climb this mountain together. If you slip, reach for my hand, and I'll help you back up. I hope I can depend on your hand to help me up too, buddy. Conquering our abuses will be much easier if we help each other, instead of trying it alone.

Give me your hand, buddy, and let's try living a better life.

Send me a PM if you are interested, okay?

Your MS brother,

Bobcat


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#329141 - 04/21/10 07:56 AM Re: What makes me do this? [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
JBells Offline


Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Juneau
Wow, you have no idea how much I needed to read something like this. Thank you. I will PM you.


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#329226 - 04/21/10 05:22 PM Re: What makes me do this? [Re: JBells]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
Ditto for the "WOW."

Bobcat, that was really helpful. Thank you very much for sharing that!

your pal,
Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#329249 - 04/21/10 08:59 PM Re: What makes me do this? [Re: Logan]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 264
Loc: Undisclosed
Aden, I am so totally understanding your clarity in your last post. You described it so completely.


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#329756 - 04/26/10 01:26 AM Re: What makes me do this? [Re: brother2none]
Dusty Boy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/15/08
Posts: 280
Loc: Australia
Another Ditto for the WOW Bobcat.


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