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#327403 - 04/04/10 10:43 PM my thoughts for today
wayne9 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 161
Loc: alabama
Sitting in Church today, listening to our Pastor's message. About how if God is truly in our hearts how we are to be able to live. Being able to turn from the wicked ways of this world. I got so depressed....Thinking how I struggle with thoughts that are not right in Gods plan. I am so tired of spending every day of my life fighting things that are not normal for a man to deal with. Does this make my claiming to be a Christian false. Can I be a child of God and have these thoughts and desires that are so wrong. I feel like such a hipocrite sometimes. I know what I feel inside is not right and I know my thoughts on this my seem wrong to some here. Sorry, I don't want to start a argument about God, sin...etc. Just wanting to say how I feel tonight. Hope things get better for me and all others on this website.

Wayne



Edited by wayne9 (04/13/10 08:21 AM)

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#327405 - 04/04/10 11:19 PM Re: my thoughts for today [Re: wayne9]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Wayne,

We as survivors of CSA (child sexual abuse) have a lot going on inside that most people don't have. We have been through stuff that most people haven't so they can't be expected to understand. When pastors get training they are supposed to get a course in how to counsel people. They should learn some things about our emotions there.

I have some of the same problems as you do. I perpetually think that others in church don't understand me. In fact I know they don't understand me. A lot of people in my church know that I have special struggles relating to abuse as a child. I play in the church orchestra and I once told them all that I was kidnapped and tortured and abused when I was 12. I'm sure that the information didn't stop with them. But you have to be somewhat careful about this kind of declaration. In my case I knew the folks pretty well. I knew for instance that one lady was a licensed social worker and that she definitely would understand. Another guy or two I had a strong hunch that they had experienced some CSA themselves and that my declaration would actually help them. Sometimes we have an impulse to "go forward" and dump it all. That is not the best way to win understanding. Sometimes you can share your special burdens with the pastor in his private office. But here again you need to exercise some care. Some pastors are just not equipped to handle that kind of information. The emotions we feel and might call "homosexual" are probably very different than what the Bible would call that. We need to exercise some care. It is not dishonest. Just be selective.

It is good if your church is big enough to have a group of guys who are survivors and who can share with each other. That can bring good help.

A lot of pastors are just not equipped to understand what we are dealing with. My approach has been to get a counselor who is not necessarily in the church but yet who is a Christian. If you live in a reasonably sized community, call the church secretaries of some of the larger churches and ask if they know of any Christian counselors, or if their church supports that kind of thing. In my community (I live in a state that is next to yours) there are about 4 churches who have counseling ministries.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#327417 - 04/05/10 01:38 AM Re: my thoughts for today [Re: wayne9]
Mike1968 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 117
Loc: California
Sorry you are struggling, your post could have been written by myself about 11 years ago. If this continues, maybe you ought to check out another church. It took me a long time to find a church.

I often read Collosians 3 and Proverbs when thoughts start taking over my mind which are not good. Kava Kava root helps a little too, takes away anxiety within about 5 minutes without side effects. It costs about 50 cents at the health food store in the bulk section.

When I got saved, I was DEEP into sin. If I the the choice to press a button would take away the desire for this specific sin was available, I would have done so. I've cried once WHILE Sinning, it was that bad. Still experiencing pleasure outside (erection) yet she wondered what was up which was very embarrassing.

After that happened, i just gave up. Told GOD if he wanted me to continue in sin, then I would but GUILT FREE. I would assume he is ordaining my sin.

Otherwise he would take away the desire because only HE KNEW How. I told him I loved him and wanted to be saved but it was up to him. I accepted Hell or Heaven as my destination but believed it was his doing whereever I end up. On my knees, I asked Him to lessen the temptation and he did. Put the ball in his court and forgot about it. Wasn't sure what he would choose, I spent time in the Word to try to have that revealed to me also. Within a few minutes the temptations died down to a tolerable level, I felt much different. It was like someone had drugged me, I fell asleep for a few hours in the middle of the day

Yet...I went back to the sin a few times the following month, the world would deem it an addiction no doubt. I literally couldn't get any pleasure out of it whatsoever. It was weird but it was an inspiration at the same time. Upon leaving, it was nice to know I would never be back.

I am sure if you could press a button to stop these thoughts completely, you would. GOD CAN stop them, let Him decide to do so as long as you are praying and reading the Bible. Sometimes he chooses to, sometimes he doesn't so trust he has his reasons if you can. He chose you to be born and loves you very much

I'll be praying, hang in there brother.



Mike






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#327418 - 04/05/10 01:54 AM Re: my thoughts for today [Re: pufferfish]
Ischyros Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 78
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Dear Wayne,

Please forgive me for speaking strongly about this. And I speak as a believing and practicing Christian with many years of experience in the church, and many years of struggle with my own sinfulness. I think the line of teaching your pastor is following is potentially a spiritually dangerous one. The implication seems to be that if you have "real faith," or if you are "really born again," you won't have struggles in your spiritual life or struggles with ongoing sin. In my opinion and experience that is false, and a dangerous oversimplification of Scripture.

For those of us sitting in the pews listening to this kind of teaching, there are only two possible responses:

1) Blaming ourselves because we clearly aren't "really born again," aren't experiencing "victory in Jesus," etc. In which case once again it's all our fault and our abusers had nothing to do with it. The message is that we are alone with our shame, and we are so broken and sinful that not even God can or will help us!

2) Kidding ourselves that our inner lives really are spiritual Disney World because we do have total victory in Jesus, etc., everything is just great with me, praise the Lord, etc. etc., and so we better make sure we keep up that front - meaning we become totally dishonest about our brokenness with ourselves, with each other, and with God. It is my experience that anyone who claims to *not* "have sin in their lives" is either a fool or a liar.

I don't mean for a second to deny God's redeeming power, or to deny that healing happens in our lives by God's mercy. It does. But it usually isn't instantaneous, and it inevitably starts with our honestly facing our brokenness, not with our wishing it away, or keeping it secret, or pretending Jesus will zap us into being fixed at the next altar call - or our pastor shaming us for it.

If I may be very bold, I'd suggest that your pastor think and pray very seriously and deeply about Mark 9:19-29. It's a story about a man who experienced profound healing for someone he loved, but also for his own unbelief and spiritual brokenness. It's also a story about true and honest prayer. Jesus didn't shame this man for his struggle, or tell him he wasn't faithful enough. This man opened himself up to healing by being honest with Jesus about his struggle, not by "claiming victory" or pretending to have faith he really didn't have.

Jesus gave this man respect and room for candor and honesty about the struggles he was facing. And Jesus responded to him with compassion and healing, not with judgment or shame or condemnation or "Try harder, buddy."

At the very least, your pastor owes you and the rest of your congregation the same respect.

Peace and healing to you my brother.

_________________________
Proud survivor and WoR alumnus - Sequoia, April 2010

I want to live in the world
Not inside my head
I want to live in the world
I want to stand and be counted
With the hopeful and the willing
With the open and the strong...

--Jackson Browne, "Alive In the World"

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#327427 - 04/05/10 06:25 AM Re: my thoughts for today [Re: wayne9]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1154
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
Originally Posted By: wayne9
I got so depressed....Thinking how I struggle with thoughts that are not right in Gods plan. I am so tired of spending every day of my life fighting things that are not normal for a man to deal with. Does this make my claiming to be a Christian false. Can I be a child of God and have these thoughts and desires that are so wrong.


My opinion (and I am no theologian smile ) is that ALL Christians struggle with this in some form. Our thoughts, our fantasies, our desires vs. what is best for us in God's plan.

For me, it is not the thoughts (I would have been condemned LONG ago), it is my actions and choices. What I do, how I love others, how much I surrender to God. And here I too fall way short, but I am slowly inching my way closer to God. smile

It's His Amazing Grace that heals me. He LOVES me in spite of my defects (and there ARE many)!

Jim



Edited by Jim1961 (04/05/10 08:34 AM)
Edit Reason: Forgot to mention HIS Grace - duh!
_________________________
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. -Yes, Starship Trooper

My Story

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