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#328375 - 04/14/10 02:04 PM Re: Boy Scout Abuse in Portland OR [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA

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#328397 - 04/14/10 05:30 PM Re: Boy Scout Abuse in Portland OR [Re: pufferfish]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Here is the link to the MSNBC story that I posted yesterday in my other topic:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36471832/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/?gt1=43001

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#328400 - 04/14/10 06:11 PM Re: Boy Scout Abuse in Portland OR [Re: Trucker51]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
At the end of the MSNBC story there is a link to MSNBC Newsvine, where a number of posters, (141 so far), have left public posts. I post there under the username Old Timer 882244. This is what I posted there today, I posted it twice, once near the beginning of the discussion in response to a poster that thought that childhood sexual victimization was some kind of a joke, the other at the end of the discussion. I included a link to Male Survivor.org at the end of what I wrote there too. Hopefully we may end-up with a few people who actually need our help, hopefully we won't end-up with some of these nut cases that think that sexual abuse is a joke.

Here is what I wrote:

You wouldn't mind sharing some of that money, would you? So far my recovery has cost me a couple of houses, everything that I owned a couple of times, dozens of lost jobs, several opportunities at college lost, one marriage and 2 engagements lost, a minimum of $500K spent on my drug habit, 3 trips to inpatient drug rehab at an average of $12,000 in 1997 Dollars, plus three more trips to outpatient rehab, a whole bunch of lost income, plus I am infected with Hepatitis-C as a result too. Unfortunately, none of my abusers belonged to the Catholic Church, possibly one or two of my 11 abusers belonged to the Boy Scouts, but it is hard to establish facts when this abuse happened in the 1960s, some of it at a BSA camp in the northern or central part of Michigan's Lower Peninsula during the Summer of 1966 when I was 8 years old, the rest of it on a weekend camping trip with my Cub Scout troop during the Summer of 1969. Another of my perps was a camp counselor at a religious-based Summer camp in Missouri in 1968 or 1969 too. Another was a Vietnam-era combat Marine that my parents had babysit because he was a member of their church, another was a drunken factory worker and farm owner in central Vermont that my parents and my aunt trusted for whatever reason, who is deceased now, though his own kids are still in prison in Vermont, they suffered so badly growing-up, a couple others were older kids from next-door, a couple of others were totally anonymous. So who do I attempt to recover my damages from? Gee, I wonder if that BSA Summer camp in Michigan is on the BSA list?

Fortunately, there is much more hope for recovery for men sexually abused as children these days. There are a number of organizations involved in operating various recovery groups, such as the Kempe Center or the Wings Foundation in Denver, CO, Male Survivor.org, an international organization which runs an online male survivor support discussion board and several intensive residential recovery weekends each year in the US and Canada, 1 in 6.org, which runs an online crisis support center, Survivors Swindon in England, at amsosa.com, Next Step Counseling, therapist Mike Lew's organization, which also runs a number of 1-day and weekend recovery groups worldwide each year, and dozens of other organizations from around the world devoted to recovery from this terrible affliction. This last weekend, Mike Lew was operating a weekend recovery group in Australia in fact, a weekend ago, Male Survivor operated a weekend recovery group in central California too.

This problem and its recovery is not a laughing matter. I'm hoping for triple punitive damages myself, a hard lesson that covering-up this kind of abuse and allowing perpetrators to continue to operate unsupervised and unsanctioned is very far outside what society is willing to put up with. A lesser award will tell the many victims that their suffering doesn't matter.

http://malesurvivor.org

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#328407 - 04/14/10 08:19 PM Re: Boy Scout Abuse in Portland OR [Re: Trucker51]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Thanks Mark

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#328414 - 04/14/10 09:13 PM Re: Boy Scout Abuse in Portland OR [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
That's very good, Mark. Thank you very much.

Allen


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#328535 - 04/15/10 07:07 PM Re: Boy Scout Abuse in Portland OR [Re: pufferfish]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
God this stuff angers me.... I mean they knew and yet they still did nothing!

What the hell will it take to get somebody to do something.

I was a boy scout and I'm almost 100% sure that abuse was taking place--I was told by a fellow scout not to be alone with this one assistant lead and thank god I never was. But, come on! When will somebody stand up and say that the want to actually retain some Honor by coming clean and turning over the files-"Practice was they Preach", for a change!

Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#328578 - 04/16/10 10:10 AM Re: Boy Scout Abuse in Portland OR [Re: Trucker51]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: Trucker51
Back in the 1960s and 1970s, sleeping over at a Boy Scout leader's house would have still been considered pretty normal in much of America, just as going on an overnight or weekend camping trip would have been for a member of either the Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts. I went on several weekend camping trips when I was in the Cub Scouts in the late 1960s.

...

By the age of 8 I was riding my bike 1/2 mile from home and by age 10 I was riding up to a bowling alley a mile from home with only friends along, 5 miles southwest of downtown Pontiac, MI, in the late 1960s, we weren't too worried back then.


As someone who was born in the 1980's and raised in a time when everyone was paranoid that their neighbors could belong to evil satanic cults, it absolutely blows my mind to try and imagine living in a time so innocently naive as you describe.

A lot of people like to complain that people are "too afraid" these days, and that back in the golden age people "didn't have to lock their doors at night". These people seem to think nobody got killed, raped, molested, or robbed back in those days. Well - quite obviously, it was happening. People just ignored it, pretended it didn't happen, or actively surpressed the knowledge of it.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#328583 - 04/16/10 11:13 AM Re: Boy Scout Abuse in Portland OR [Re: melliferal]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
***Triggering***

Sexual activity and abuse were rife in the two Boy Scout troops in my area. I started in the boy scouts in 1950 and stayed until 1952. I was in a troop in northern Virginia, a suburb of Washington D.C.

One of the troops (123) was too full when my mother called about it to get me in. That was fortunate in retrospect, because the scout master was a pedophile. He regularly invited boys into his tent to spend the night. One boy (JD) told me of spending the night in his tent where he was sexually fondled. But their camp site looked so good. They all had matching tents made of the same colorful cloth.

The other troop (186) was not very well organized and not very well run. That was the one I got into. I was still relatively naive. The very first camping trip I was sexually fondled by another 11-years-old boy (RK). The other boys retired to their pup-tents in pairs. The scout master (JA) was having an affair (heterosexual) with someone and his marriage was breaking up. His son was several years older than I was and was reputedly involved in homosexual activity within that troop. The boys loved to assemble in a circle and tell diry jokes. On Wednesday nights when the scouts met together, they played rough physical games (this was probably not bad, but I had a gentle disposition and I didn't like it). As the scout master decreased his involvement with our group, he was replaced by a young guy (WH) who was a pedophile. He was 18 years old at that time. He was carrying on sexual activity with the boys. He organized a circle jerk with the younger boys (me included) at our Camp Ouree in Washington (1951). I have a newspaper clipping of that Camp Ouree. He (WH) only got to me once. After that I permantly quit going to scouts. I have a group picture of the troop. I remember the names of a bunch of the boys. I remember especially RS, JM, JH, RK who were my age.

It was at the summer camp, Camp Roosevelt, that my kidnapping took place. It was a kidnapping because I was taken out of bed while I was asleep and taken to a separate tent where I was tied to the bed. I awoke nude as I was being tied. My briefs had been removed while I was still asleep. That was extremely bad, as I have described elsewhere. I have to believe that stuff was going on for other boys beside myself. To be able to attend that camp, all of the boys had to have a medical examination at home. Yet the camp leadership had us all (probably over 100 boys) line up undressed and have the camp doctor perform a hernia examination where the doctor sticks his finger behind the scrotum and tells you to cough. The top administrators in the camp stood by watching all of the nude boys filing by and having their "scrotums adjusted". What do you suppose they were looking for? This tells me the top administrators were encouraging and enjoying this kind of activity. When the abuse of me started and before I was tied down, I told the same camp doctor of the initial abusive experience. He said he would "take care of it". He certainly did not. I wish I could remember his name. I remember what he looked like.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#328758 - 04/17/10 08:47 PM Re: Boy Scout Abuse in Portland OR [Re: pufferfish]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
I was a member of a Boy Scout troop for about 5 years as a kid; after I turned 18 I remained as an adult leader for about 2 more years.

Much to my relief, I'm pleased to report that no sexual activity took place at any of our events, so far as I know. And there were plenty of opportunities for it, in hindsight. The only time any of us were ever naked around each other was during evening showers at the poolhouse at summer camp. The showers were segregated - that is, no one over 18 was permitted in the youth side of the poolhouse, and the older boy leaders maintained a strict policy against 'grabass', as they called it. In fact as I recall, two of them were severely homophobic; and though I hate to think of homophobia in a positive light, I wonder if in this case it happened to create an atmosphere that wasn't condusive to abuse.

One thing interesting: when I became an adult leader, I noticed that in the adult side of the poolhouse, each shower had an individual stall, with a privacy door. The walls didn't go all the way up to the ceiling of course, but they were above head level - nobody could 'peek' at you, as it were. Contrast this with the boys side of the poolhouse, where the 'shower stall' was simply one long bay with multiple showerheads and no privacy dividers. I told myself this was because those particular showers were designed for kids to rinse off pool water whilst still wearing their trunks, and not for actual real naked 'cleaning' showers. I didn't bother me as much that way. It was also easy to believe because although we had a regular shower schedule, we ran into only maybe three other troops that took actual showers there in all the years of summer camp I was with our troop.

Aside from that, our troop did tell dirty jokes on occasion, but I'm now convinced that's just a boy thing. I did not participate personally, because this all took place after my abuse and by then I was at a stage where jokes and talk about sex made me sick.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#328763 - 04/17/10 09:34 PM Re: Boy Scout Abuse in Portland OR [Re: melliferal]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
At camp sites the boys showering facilities are often as you say Melliferal "one long bay with multiple showerheads and no privacy dividers", and the leaders showers are individual in a different building to the childrens showers. Ideally there should be privacy dividers for every shower. The sites i have taken cubs to have some curtain dividers now (although not all of the showers were divided by curtains- and to get out they would have to walk past eachother through eachothers curtains)- which seem newly installed, to respect the individual boys privacy. They are used for "cleaning" showers when necessary (and part of camp is often to get very very muddy). I think part of the problem is that these buildings were constructed when it was "okay" to have a bunch of boys showering together without dividers, and now although they can make some attempts with curtains it obviously isn't ideal without investment to build new showering facilities. I think this is where the judgement and sensitivity of the individual leader comes in, to know his cubs and to try to make special concessions for cubs who do not want to shower with everybody else (to allow them to shower in smaller groups so that they can spread out more or whatever may be best, or to tell them to wear swimming shorts if you think some will be very uncomfortable).

I think the scouting association has made huge improvements, i am involved in three different cub packs currently and i am happy with how all of them are being run, and i haven't heard of any new abuse case in scouting around me. It is all about the education and committment of the leaders (for the children), if you have good leaders you have a good pack (provided you have at least some funding). The boy scout association of America (and all organisations that have been negligent with abuse cases) should of course take responsibility for any wrong doing in the past, and make sure the same situations don't occur in the future.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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