Newest Members
rhyoung, Jefferson22, OxfordArms, Anony_mous, Drew6991x
12367 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
bluesky (44), Brother B+ (48), emal7717 (53), estuardo (52), kwf777 (56), LeeAnne (30), mapleleafsn (52), otherside (61), ronnie (59), Scott1962 (52), thrive-n-survive (42), tom3065 (36)
Who's Online
4 registered (blockade, woodenshoes, CafeMan, 1 invisible), 13 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12367 Members
74 Forums
63563 Topics
444102 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#326147 - 03/25/10 07:15 AM You're now required to rent to Illegal Immigants
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032510dnmetfbord.1dce73fb1.html

________________________________________________________________
Federal judge strikes down Farmers Branch ordinance against renting to illegal immigrants

10:32 PM CDT on Wednesday, March 24, 2010

By DIANNE SOLÍS / The Dallas Morning News
dsolis@dallasnews.com
______________________________________________________________

For the second time, a federal judge has declared unconstitutional a Farmers Branch ordinance banning illegal immigrants from renting in the city.

U.S. District Judge Jane Boyle of Dallas ruled Wednesday that the ordinance was an attempt to enforce U.S. immigration laws – something the judge said only the federal government can do.

The judge also issued a permanent injunction to stop Farmers Branch from enforcing Ordinance 2952.

Mayor Tim O'Hare, the driving force behind the ordinances, said he wants to appeal.

"The American people are tired of judges legislating from the bench," he said. "This decision is not unexpected but welcomed, because it allows us to get closer to this ordinance becoming reality."

But O'Hare said the City Council would have to vote on whether to continue a fight that has cost the city nearly $3.2 million since September 2006. And the city may need to spend an additional $623,000 in legal fees in the year ahead, city finance director Charles Cox said Wednesday.

The council could discuss the issue as early as April 6.

Council member Ben Robinson said he wasn't sure whether he'd vote to appeal, but said he still supports the ordinance.

"Illegal activity of any type should not be ignored or accepted no matter whether in Dallas, Farmers Branch or other cities or states," he said.

The lead attorney for the plaintiffs, Bill Brewer, said his law firm's affiliate firm would continue the fight in any courtroom on behalf of the landlords led by the Villas at Parkside complex.

"We've been involved ... because of the broader implications of how we are all going to live together," Brewer said. "I not only owe that to my clients but I owe it to my children."

About one-quarter of the estimated 30,000 people who live in Farmers Branch were born outside the United States. About 47 percent of the city's population is Hispanic.

In the past four years, the city has proposed a series of ordinances that would make it illegal for landlords to rent to illegal immigrants. A version approved by the council in 2006 was repealed in early 2007 to make way for another ordinance.

That ordinance, No. 2903, was approved by two-thirds of voters in 2007 but later declared unconstitutional by U.S. District Judge Sam Lindsay. The city abandoned an appeal of that ordinance in favor of Ordinance 2952. No. 2952 added all rental units, including houses, to the ban on renting to illegal immigrants.

For and against

Reaction to the decision was swift. Illegal immigration continues to stir passions, pro and con. Earlier this month, the shell of a comprehensive overhaul of the nation's immigration laws was announced by Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., and Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.

Kris Kobach, an attorney for the city of Farmers Branch and a professor at the University of Missouri-Kansas City Law School, said the judge's ruling was expected.

"We are cautiously optimistically that the Farmers Branch ordinance will be upheld on appeal," Kobach said.

Nina Perales, one of the plaintiffs' lawyers on the case, praised the ruling.

"This is the third ordinance that has fallen," said Perales, of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund in San Antonio. "At some point, Farmers Branch has to realize it is not worth the financial drain or the cost to race relations in the city."

In Washington, D.C., Mike Hethmon, general counsel of the Immigration Reform Law Institute and a lawyer for Farmers Branch, called Boyle's decision "frustrating." He said he also supports an appeal. The law institute is the legal affiliate of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which favors immigration restrictions.

Pennsylvania case

Many are awaiting a decision in a Hazleton, Pa., case on a renters' ordinance that is similar to the one in Farmers Branch.

Oral arguments were heard in October 2008 before a federal appeals court in Philadelphia.

"It is pretty clear that the way these cases are moving through the appellate courts that this is an issue that ultimately the Supreme Court will have to decide," Hethmon said.

Whether local and state officials can regulate illegal immigration is a persistent concern, Hethmon said.

"It is an enormous issue and one affecting so many areas of modern life," Hethmon said.

In Ithaca, N.Y., Cornell Law School professor Stephen W. Yale-Loehr also said he was watching the Farmers Branch and Hazleton cases closely.

The likelihood of the high court taking up the issue increases with differing lower court decisions, including those made in support of the state of Arizona over its employer sanctions ordinance.

"If there is a conflict between different circuits, then the case could end up in the Supreme Court," Yale-Loehr said.

The rental ordinance is not the only legal fight being waged by Farmers Branch over immigration.

Discovery proceedings have begun for a related lawsuit involving alleged violations of the Texas Open Meetings Act and the manner in which the City Council crafted the rental ordinance.


Top
#326148 - 03/25/10 07:21 AM Re: You're now required to rent to Illegal Immigants [Re: Hauser]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I feel like I'm living in Bizarro World , in which everything is weirdly skewed, perversely inverted: a parody of the reality that we normal Americans perceive.

Let me get this right:

It's ok for you be an illegal immigrant and receive food stamps and "housing assistance", it's ok for you to come here and drive down the prevailing wages and living standards for the working class in America and have your children educated by actual citizens that pay taxes. In other words, it's ok to hurt the most vulnerable citizens in this country (the working class)

But it's not ok for you as a landlord to refuse to rent to someone based one's legal immigrant status.

?

Could someone PLEASE explain to me how one becomes a Federal Judge and reach such a conclusion?




Top
#326150 - 03/25/10 08:06 AM Re: You're now required to rent to Illegal Immigants [Re: Hauser]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 821
Loc: Ohio
Actually, the ruling is that a city or state cannot pass a law punishing a landlord for renting to an illegal immigrant. The landlord can still decide not to rent to them, at least for now. That is a separate issue. Of course it is one step down a path either way.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Top
#326153 - 03/25/10 08:22 AM Re: You're now required to rent to Illegal Immigants [Re: catfish86]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Alan,

I just thought I'd let you know how impossible this is in one of those socialist european countries whose systems you dislike so much. Everyone must be registered and without being registered you may not rent...period...without having been properly registered, a landlord may not rent to you...a landlord who rents to a non-registered person is breaking a serious law, and would be found out within a relatively short amount of time, so therefore no one does it. When you move, you MUST register to where you moved...your landlord registers the fact you've left his apartment, and eventually someone would work out that you've gone someplace...well, I could go on and on. They wonder how we can be so lackadaisical about something as elemental to having order as knowing where people live. We're so paranoid of government intrusion in our lives, that we've effectively taken away much of their power for doing much of anything aside from locking up low level offenders like kids smoking weed and sexting each other rather than deal with anything real and seriously wrong.

k

_________________________
the family
the perp

Top
#326155 - 03/25/10 08:50 AM Re: You're now required to rent to Illegal Immigants [Re: sono]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I hear you there Sono.

Please note that I would not care who comes here if we didn't have GOVERNMENT welfare to subsidize their lifestyle.

Let me give you my personal experience.

The last job I had before I moved here, a cooking\restaurant job, had me working daily with Mexicans and Guatemalans. I was one of 2 or 3 Anglo-Saxon white people with a staff of over 15. I seriously enjoyed working with them. It took them a few days to warm up to me, because they weren't sure if I was willing to do all the "dirty jobs" and show up every day and work JUST as hard as they do. But eventually, they learned to love me. smile

ANYWAY, the ONLY thing that I DID NOT like about Jose, Eugene, etc, is that they were not only illegals, they were taking food stamps and medicaid for their children (In Michigan, the benefit is called "MyChild").

These guys were working in a restaurant, making about 8 to 10 bucks per hour, and getting more in welfare benefits than they were paying in taxes. Do you think they would be willing to work such subsistence-level wages were it not for these "entitlements" that we give them to supplement their lifestyle? Of course not, they would, out of sheer necessity, demand a higher wage. Conversely, the fact that these illegals were willing to work for such low wages drove down the wage that *I* could ask for by the same industry.

I don't hate illegals, I hate the system that allows them enter this country and, even if inadvertently, hurt the most vulnerable class of our citizens. Something is seriously wrong with this.


Top
#326329 - 03/27/10 02:07 AM Re: You're now required to rent to Illegal Immigants [Re: Hauser]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Mayor O'Hare keeps this up, and one of these days coming-up soon, there will be a majority of Hispanics in the Farmer's Branch local electorate, and then the Mayor's last name will be Martinez instead. A lot of the problem in Michigan and New York State near Buffalo is/was caused by Canadians who worked down here then went home on the weekends, especially when the Canadian Dollar was worth a lot less than our Dollar was. (I know, it is a lot harder to tell the difference between us Americans and our Canadian neighbors). Just as it is a lot harder to tell the difference between legal Hispanics, many of whom have lived here for several generations or more, and illegal immigrants. I think that one of the reasons that this law fell is a perception of, if not a good reason to feel, an air of anti-Hispanic discrimination and/or hatred among the civic leadership in Farmer's Branch, and indeed all over that part of the American southwest, not to mention Michigan too.

If you were married and you and your wife had 4 kids, you too would be entitled to any and all social benefits that our government was willing to give you. Are you upset that as a result of several generations of institutionalized discrimination in America against our African-American population, that population as a group generally consumes more in the way of social service funding a the similar long-favored group of white Americans do? 75% of all Hispanics in this country are legal Americans, so could this policy result in discrimination against Hispanic American citizens by an over-zealous community trying to take-out its anger against Hispanics as a group? Farmer's Branch at one time was a farm town outside of the Dallas/Ft Worth metroplex that enjoyed a mainly white and prosperous rural population, unfortunately for them urban growth and social demographics have conspired to drive-out the wealthier and (for generations) favored white population, gradually replacing them with a Hispanic population that the white perception is unfavorable of.

One job that belongs to our Federal judiciary or our Supreme Court is seeking to protect legal American citizens no matter what their race, religion, or ethnic background from illegal discrimination. That is why I believe that this law as it is written was struck down. In their effort to protect Farmer's Branch from an influx of possibly-illegal Hispanics potentially driving-down property values there, the local government has enacted a law that forces landlords to police rental applicants, without any safeguards to protect the legal rights of legal American citizens of Hispanic origin. If i was a Federal justice, I would have ruled against the town too.

Just my opinion as usual, Don't you guys just love these left/right commentaries? I see old Hauser almost every weekend where we laugh it up and have fun together.

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



Top
#326330 - 03/27/10 02:07 AM Re: You're now required to rent to Illegal Immigan [Re: Hauser]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Mayor O'Hare keeps this up, and one of these days coming-up soon, there will be a majority of Hispanics in the Farmer's Branch local electorate, and then the Mayor's last name will be Martinez instead. A lot of the problem in Michigan and New York State near Buffalo is/was caused by Canadians who worked down here then went home on the weekends, especially when the Canadian Dollar was worth a lot less than our Dollar was. (I know, it is a lot harder to tell the difference between us Americans and our Canadian neighbors). Just as it is a lot harder to tell the difference between legal Hispanics, many of whom have lived here for several generations or more, and illegal immigrants. I think that one of the reasons that this law fell is a perception of, if not a good reason to feel, an air of anti-Hispanic discrimination and/or hatred among the civic leadership in Farmer's Branch, and indeed all over that part of the American southwest, not to mention Michigan too.

If you were married and you and your wife had 4 kids, you too would be entitled to any and all social benefits that our government was willing to give you. Are you upset that as a result of several generations of institutionalized discrimination in America against our African-American population, that population as a group generally consumes more in the way of social service funding than the similar long-favored group of white Americans do? 75% of all Hispanics in this country are legal Americans, so could this policy result in discrimination against Hispanic American citizens by an over-zealous community trying to take-out its anger against Hispanics as a group? Farmer's Branch at one time was a farm town outside of the Dallas/Ft Worth metroplex that enjoyed a mainly white and semi-prosperous rural population, unfortunately for them urban growth and social demographics have conspired to drive-out the wealthier and (for generations) favored white population, gradually replacing them with a Hispanic population that the white perception is unfavorable of.

One job that belongs to our Federal judiciary or our Supreme Court is seeking to protect legal American citizens no matter what their race, religion, or ethnic background from illegal discrimination. That is why I believe that this law as it is written was struck down. In their effort to protect Farmer's Branch from an influx of possibly-illegal Hispanics potentially driving-down property values there, the local government has enacted a law that forces landlords to police rental applicants, without any safeguards to protect the legal rights of legal American citizens of Hispanic origin. If i was a Federal justice, I would have ruled against the town too.

Just my opinion as usual, Don't you guys just love these left/right commentaries? I see old Hauser almost every weekend where we laugh it up and have fun together.

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



Top
#326342 - 03/27/10 07:20 AM Re: You're now required to rent to Illegal Immigan [Re: Trucker51]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Alan, and Mark,

Well, again when it comes to working or residing it's amazing that we have such loose rules and systems. I don't know if I made it clear above, but in European countries, EVERYONE must be registered with their place of residence regardless of whether one is a native, naturalized citizen or guest worker. It's a system of order from the get go that we're lacking...and unlike much of what Mr. Reagan was talking about, THAT is something which trickles down. I guess we would balk at the prospect of keeping the government informed of our residence since that would infringe on our rights...I dunno.

That all being said, if we need so many workers who are not allowed do it legally, then something else needs fixing as well. It's not the people who are the problem, it's an archaic system and mindset.

k

_________________________
the family
the perp

Top
#326369 - 03/27/10 11:20 AM Re: You're now required to rent to Illegal Immigan [Re: sono]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
And again, I must re-iterate; I would not care who comes to this country, as long as they couldn't get government-provided "benefits".

If this single thing were eliminated out of this equation, then only people that were willing to provide for their themselves and their families on their own merits would come here.

I certainly don't want a wall on the Mexican border to solve this. A wall that can people out, can also be used to keep people from leaving!


Top
#326378 - 03/27/10 01:02 PM Re: You're now required to rent to Illegal Immigants [Re: Hauser]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I seriously doubt "all" of them were getting these benefits.
Also, "everyone who gets these benefits is getting more than they pay in taxes." BTW why would someone getting these benefits be paying any taxes? We want them to get ahead and out of poverty right? If they can pay tax then they don't need assistance.

This is another case of imaginary problems being used to try to enforce racist bigotted attitudes. Even if you aren't personally since you got along so well with Eugene, the whole concept of what you are putting forth is phony.

If you really believe that "these people" are being subsidized by programs for the poor in an unfair way then find out what the rules and regulations for getting benefits are.

You may not remember but not so long ago, local government was used to keep people down. And in some locals, mine being one, it still is. That is what the whole republican let the local gov movement is all about regaining that power to use and abuse those that don't fit into their club.

Making the immigrants who come here feel insecure and unsafe which is essentially what you are talking about because no matter how willing you were to work hard there just aren't enough people willing to do these jobs here. Insecure and unsafe people as we here should well know are much easier to manipulate and control. Thus we get very cheap labor and very high profits to the few who created the system.

Another thing which affects local people who might take these jobs is how they are taxed and blocked out of getting those same benefits if they do work. Somehow a part time job at minimum wage is too much money for someone who needs help to make it.
Its as if they don't want the program to be the leg up it is meant to be. They only want people better off to think its a leg up when in fact the system is setup once you are in it to keep you in it at the same level or a lower one.
I grew up this way and lived this way until I was finally healthy enough (chemical food is poison), by my own efforts to get into regular work.
Living on 8-10 bucks with a family is not possible unless one makes some serious quality of life sacrifices that includes having poor housing, no insurance, and a very crappy vehichle all of which absorbs all of the "extra" money one might be saving to get up and out.
BTW Very very very few places pay that much for dishwashers and cooks. and NO farmer is going to pay that. Minimum wage is the rule and lower if they think they can get you to work for it.

These immigrants come here because the quality of life here is better in spite of what is done to them here. Very few of them have to fear arrest and execution and they feel reasonably safe about their children. As for taxes they come out of the wages before they even see them so if they aren't paying them then its on the employer. Of course they wouldn't file, which would get them a refund as it does for most of us who had our taxes taken out, because they aren't registered. So they are actually paying more than they should. Some have balls and do file but in either case it is the employers job to take and send the taxes in.
Another thing these employers do is pocket the taxes they take out of the pay of these people because they know most don't file out of ignorance and fear the info will be used to send them back.

It boggles the mind how intelligent men like you can allow yourself to be taken by such propaganda.


I come from people who came to America from Europe in the early twentieth century when it wasn't safe for them in a lot of Europe. It only got worse with a few short breaks until 1945. The ethos we had and I always thought it national was that if you got here and worked hard and obeyed the law you were one of us. This allows that they were "illegal". Most of these people coming from the south are running from a dangerous existence to one that promises safety and an opportunity to grow, just like my ancestors from Europe did.
I don't see anything wrong with them being here. They should be allowed to be here legally but the system I described above precludes it and in fact relies upon, this fake exclusionary policy to run.

If you don't think they should be here just take a month and don't buy anything an immigrant laborer might have helped make.
You'll starve to death. If you don't you'll run out of clothing, furniture, and pretty much anything else you use to live including your car and not long down the road your computer. They are doing what your and my ancestors did when they came keeping the economy ticking along by bringing in new blood and new ideas.
Wherever these people go there is always work and improvment going on. That may be chicken-egg but I don't think so.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.