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#324571 - 03/09/10 07:15 PM DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish
PSGuy760 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/19/10
Posts: 2
I'm a new member to Male Survivor and have enjoyed reading the posts. I am having a serious time coping with an issue that has left me very confused.
I am a gay male who has dated mature men all of life since coming out at the age 17.
I have been in what I like to call a fetish gay lifestyle of DAD /SON role playing.
I am also a survivor of severe sexual abuse by my father. I was only 8 years old when it started until he was caught then arrested and served 4 years in a California Mental Facility. Over the years growing up I found myself involved in role playing relationships where I played the SON and the older man was my DAD. The first time I saw an ad posted in a magazine I responded and wondered why I was so attracted to being with a man who identified himself as being a Dad type. I was so nervous and anxious when I saw the ads that I would start to shake. It seemed taboo and disturbing. It was like making love with my father but instead with another man pretending to be him.
I have had great experiences and have met some wonderful men but deep down I am concerned that the sex abuse by my father inspired my attracted to men 30-50 years older then myself. I have never been comfortable with it and notice that some of the men even ask me if I enjoyed sex with my father. Some of the mature men I have met ask me why I like older men. They seem concerned deep down that something or someone is responsible for this but choose to be with me anyway.
Many of my friends growing up thought I was with older men for the money but it was an attraction I had no control over.
I have come to believe that I was born gay but my father was my first sexual experience leading me to want and desire men like him. Most of the men I have dated look and sound like him. It took a long time to admit that to myself but guys like my father have always caught my eye.
Some people have said to me that it's a coincidence but there are just too many connections to my real father and my desires.
The biggest problem in being in an intergenerational relationship is the future. It works perfect when time stands still and the Son stays the Son and Dad stays the Dad but time changes and both fade into a gray area. I fear that in time I will no longer be the SON and be too old to play the role. I will be forced start seeing myself as a DAD seeking other DADS. Very confusing and lonely at times.
Is anyone else out there dealing with these issues and how do you cope with it?




Edited by PSGuy760 (03/09/10 07:33 PM)

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#324604 - 03/09/10 11:16 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: PSGuy760]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1536
Loc: New Jersey
Hey PSGuy,
Can't say I've ever participated in an incest roleplay but I have had periods where I try to find good incest porn. All over the spectrum, brother/sister, mother/son, Daddy/Daughter. Dad/Son. I too think this is due to the abuse. Hope others have more experience and some advice for you

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#324655 - 03/10/10 12:30 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: onlyakid]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
i'd like to praise you for posting this. i'm sure it is not easy to discuss. since you called this a fetish i am going to go with that and from a very different p.o.v., i do wonder how much a fetish can limit one's ability or availability to have an ltr.

what does your therapist say about this? are you in love with an older man or is the real attraction the connection you seek? what about him - is he in love with you?

have you had a relationship with a guy your age?

_________________________
Jeff

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#324660 - 03/10/10 12:54 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: westchesterguy]
Ischyros Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 78
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
This is a very honest and brave thread. Thanks, guys. I'll just add that although I have not been in an intergenerational relationship, the daddy/son fantasies have been a big thing for me over many years. Because my sexual trauma involved my mother, I think I've invested a lot in fantasies of an older man who can care for me, make me feel safe, all of that. In fact I still have sexual fantasies about my 6th grade (male) teacher. He was a kind of Marlboro Man image of masculinity and I hero-worshiped him as an 11-year old. He was the only man during my childhood who really did seem to care for me and whom I always felt wanted to protect me.

Trauma and abuse issues aside, I think these kinds of fantasies are pretty common among gay men, and I think straight men are also drawn to and fantasize about an ideal woman/mother. Not to take anything away from the tragic history you so bravely posted, PSGuy - but you are far from alone.

Thanks again for your rigorous honesty and heal well my brother.

_________________________
Proud survivor and WoR alumnus - Sequoia, April 2010

I want to live in the world
Not inside my head
I want to live in the world
I want to stand and be counted
With the hopeful and the willing
With the open and the strong...

--Jackson Browne, "Alive In the World"

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#324663 - 03/10/10 01:31 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Ischyros]
Dan99 Offline


Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Washington DC
I can definitely relate to part of what you say. I was molested from age 6 to roughly 13 by a much older man. As an adult, I became bisexual (though I wish I weren't) and my interaction with men always involved repeating what happened as a child.

I don't have any practical advice about relationships. I have never had what you'd call a romantic relationship with a man. It's strange, but I'm not attracted to men other than as partners in recreating the abusive sex. So a relationship just wouldn't occur.

In my romantic relationships with women, I was always repelled by women who were nice to me or who flirted with me. I've always pursued and dated cold women. In fact I married two. As I look back on it now, I can see that this is largely because I couldn't see myself as in anyway being worthy of a women and was so accustomed to abuse growing up, that's what felt "normal" to me. It's really saddening to see how I was conditioned to seek out a miserable life.

My only advice is to keep doing what you're doing and looking hard at this and understand yourself. Don't put it off. It's very frustrating to reach my stage of life and realize how much the abuse in my past influenced my choices and decisions. It's something I really get angry about.

_________________________
Work like you don't need the money;
dance like no one is watching;
sing like no one is listening;
love like you've never been hurt;
and live life every day as if it were your last.

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#324688 - 03/10/10 04:49 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Dan99]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Howdy PS guy,

I echo Dan 99's comments: a lot of my sexuality was heavily imprinted by my abuse: and I recreated it a lot in my 20s and 30s, as much as I tried to suppress it.

It also got in the way of developing healthy inimacy and affirming sexuality for me.

I'm in a totally different place today, having worked through a lot of these issues-that said, I got a flashback of my abuse this morning and instantly wanted to take it out sexually on another male. Using sex to express anger and revenge is part of the messed up way I think. Learning to use sex to express love and vulnerability and affirmation is my journey.

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

“It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#325059 - 03/13/10 12:33 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Mountainous Buck]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2465
Loc: UK
Hi PSGuy,

You were abused by your father and now you often role-play as the son in father/son sexual relations.

This is called re-enactment.

You are re-creating the situation of your abuse. I have heard an analogy used to describe this before. It is true, for whatever reason, that often when a woman is in a violent relationship she often ends up with a new partner who is similarly violent. This may be for a number of reasons but one is so that the woman can put herself back into that situation and see how she reacts "this time".

You are doing this also, I feel. You may be doing it for a number of reasons. One reason may be to put yourself back into a position where you had less power- often people role-play with power/humiliation fantasies (the community may refer to it more in terms of ultimate trust), but because of your history I believe your reasons may be more involved than those of the role-play community. You may be taking yourself back there in an effort to try to deal with your past- to put yourself in the same situation and to try to analyse and control your emotions and feelings. To try to understand your feelings in order to face them. Or to put yourself into a situation where you can relinquish control and power over your life as some kind of release.

Also, if you have body issues, if you are not happy with yourself sexually, you may be putting yourself into a relationship of unbalanced power so that you don't have to be ashamed or worried about your own body- it becomes a matter of what he is taking from you and not what you are offering him, so that you don't have to feel self-conscious about your own body- that it is his choice to take what he wants- and indeed then you can feel somewhat better about your body if you didn't before.

You may be putting yourself back into a situation, a situation that when you were little you had no power, no control, and although you may have liked certain parts of it, I am sure it was very traumatic for you- and then trying to change how you feel about it in order to deal with it better.

You may be putting yourself back there- the same power difference, the same sense of humiliation perhaps, the same sexual acts- but now saying- this is my choice- I have chosen to do this role-play. I don't think it is a healthy thing, but it may be a way in which you are trying to deal with things right now. You may be, in a way, trying to change how you feel about your abuse, so that you can deal with your past better. But of course it was never okay, and it is not acceptable for that to happen to a child, as you know.

There is also another possibility. You were abused by your father, and presumably this happened at home. You probably had no feeling of safety- you always felt in danger perhaps. Always wondering when it will happen next. When it did happen, then you didn't have to worry about "when is it going to happen next? What is he going to make me do?" because it was happening right then. In a very complex sense, abuse is a moment of less worry, because you have completely no control over anything and it is already happening. It may be the sense of "it is happening right now so it doesn't matter" that you are seeking.

You also talk about how you are attracted to guys that remind you of your father. Your father hurt you terribly but you may have loved him and wanted attention of some kind from him (not sexual). Your effort to try to reconnect with a man who reminds you of your father may be an effort to try to reconnect with your father. You may have done what your father said sexually in order to try to gain his approval and to try to get him to love you as he should. You got use to having to do sexual things in order to try to gain love. You may have even felt that sex is all you are good for, or that sex was the only way you could get somebody to love you. It seems like this has followed you into your later life- that you have taken the same path to try to find people to love you. But that path, in my opinion, is not a healthy one.

I think you need to be able to see that you don't have to have sex with people, you don't have to give yourself to people, in order for them to love you.

Also I would like to add that this kind of re-enactment, in a similar way to self-harm, may reinforce the bad feeling you have about yourself, the feelings of worthlessness and such. Although you may or may not subconsciously been doing this in order to change how you feel about the abuse or to change how you react "this time", or to be in a different position concerning choice (or simply as a familiar route to try to find some kind of affection), at the same time you are ironing in some of the false lessons that you learnt about yourself as a child. These of course are just my general opinions on the general topic area.

Lewis




Edited by king tut (03/13/10 12:46 PM)
_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#326239 - 03/26/10 01:31 AM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: king tut]
TheBobcatAgain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 492
Loc: AZ, U.S.A.
PSGuy760,

I have to say this to you: Wow! I really applaud you for your bravery to be so honest! Your abuse was awful - I'm so sorry it happened to you - but acknowledging an incest fetish and having the courage to admit it to us...is one of the bravest gestures I think I've ever seen. Thank you for being so honest about so personal a problem, buddy.

You (and the others on here who have been equally brave and honest) have inspired me to share a fantasy I've had for a long time. It's not sexual, but your post does remind me of it. I've actually found that one other person on this website has had this same fantasy as well, so maybe it's not uncommon.

I have a fantasy where a big, strong, fatherly kind of man comes up behind me and puts his big, strong arms around me (around my chest) and just...holds me. Like a long hug. Nothing sexual about it. Sometimes I fantasize that he is sitting in a large chair, and I sit down on his lap, and he puts his strong arms around me and holds me until I fall asleep. I also sometimes fantasize that I'm not wearing a shirt, and he is not wearing a shirt, so I can feel the warmth of his chest against my back. I feel warm, safe, and loved all at the same time. It's a good fantasy for me; feels good, I mean.

Of course, I wouldn't be able to walk up to a man in the street and ask him to do this for me - unless I wanted a good beating. I can't ask any of my friends to do this, because I would feel awkward. And I actually had a father growing up - still do - but he was never around for me emotionally. Hence my fantasy, no doubt. So I can't ask him to do this for me, either. I'm hoping, at some point, I will grow out of it.

I don't know why this was embarrassing for me to write - now that I've written it, it doesn't seem that bad. Anyway, I just wondered if you had had any similar fantasies, PSGuy760. Any nonsexual fantasies. As Lewis said, maybe you are trying to reconnect to your father. If you have had any nonsexual fantasies about your father as well, maybe that's a good indication that you just want to be loved as a good son. I can certainly understand that.

I hope you find some answers. Again, thank you for your honesty, buddy. As you can see from your responses, you've started a topic that many men would like to discuss.

Bobcat

_________________________
You don't have to be perfect to be wonderful.

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#327275 - 04/03/10 07:43 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
nicedesertguy Offline
Board Member Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/19/10
Posts: 1
I hope guys will still keep posting. do you think an older/younger relationship can be fruitful/mature/loving when the younger guy has been sexually abused by his father?


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#333285 - 06/08/10 01:07 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: nicedesertguy]
Sobernow Offline


Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Oklahoma
..



Edited by Sobernow (08/20/10 12:24 PM)

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#333300 - 06/08/10 05:11 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Ischyros]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
I think this kind of fantasy is common, much like a cop/prisoner fantasy is, or the straight interest in teacher/schoolgirl roleplays. In each of these examples there are elements of control or the loss of it, depending on the role you wish to play, which like I said is common in many people's fantasy life, whether they were sexually abused or not in their histories. As a survivor I think you just have to ask yourself whether realizing such fantasies is adding to your sexual fulfillment or detracts from other aspects of your life. If you feel its just for fun and of no consequence then that's fine. I've done the same. However, if deep down inside this type of fantasy feels like a way of working out past issues then I would be concerned since it will frustrate you rather than help you find understanding and closure in the end. JS

_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.


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#334718 - 06/26/10 11:59 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: king tut]
oneofshay Offline


Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 1
You seem so intelligent and insightful. I agree with your reply.


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#372846 - 10/19/11 07:05 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Sobernow]
Bearaffe Offline


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 2
I hate to be controversial, but having been abused is not always the prerequisite for having an incest fetish. I was never abused by my father or any other male family member, at least until I was well into my teens and sought it out with cousins. But I have always been sexually attracted to older men, and within the last few years I discovered that this attraction included my own father. I was the kid who wanted to be molested, and never was. You could say I've blocked it, but I really don't believe that. I just happen to like older men.

No one ever pathologizes straight people when they are in intergenerational relationships. Older men used to marry young women all the time. No one ever asked those women if they had been abused. Teenage boys love MILFS, no one is suspecting them of being molested by their mothers.

It just so happens that mature, masculine men are a sexual icon. They are strong, handsome, experienced, hairy, muscular... sorry, I should stop before...

Anyway, don't think too hard about it. It is a shame that you were molested, but that is not what ultimately makes you attracted to the people you are attracted to. No one can force your taste. Plenty of people have been molested and turn out quite straight, TYVM. There is no reason why there has to be a sinister cause for every non traditional relationship.


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#372887 - 10/20/11 05:46 AM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Bearaffe]
men_of_hrts.dbw Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 301
Loc: Orchidland Big Island Hawaii
Reply Removed by Doug



Edited by men_of_hrts.dbw (10/20/11 05:51 AM)
Edit Reason: remarks were removed
_________________________
Doug>ASA Survivor (1x)
ECV 6001/MaTuCa Chapter 1849
E Clampus Vitus
"What Say the Brethren"
"Hang the Bastards"

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#372920 - 10/20/11 03:18 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: men_of_hrts.dbw]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
This is for Bearaffe Only

So what are you doing here then. I find your comments offensive and immature

If you feel this is how you were "BORN" well then you don't need to be here.
There are men here that have suffered tremendously, and if you are here to sow doubt and try and cause a stir then you are in the wrong place.
When you begin to learn what does and doesn't hurt or confuse survivors, and perhaps grow up a little, then you are welcome to post.

Till then find somewhere else to play.

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#372928 - 10/20/11 05:21 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: whome]
GeorgeMartin Offline


Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 187
Loc: USA
I agree with Bearaffe. Their posting has some legitimate merit as well. To imply and or assume that Bearaffe is "playing around" .... is allegedly offensive and or immature is not necessarily a correct analysis of their posting's content.

I was born "gay" and me being attracted to men, older or not, has nothing to do with whether or not I was sexually abused as a child. YES, I was "BORN" this way. I am not a "lifestyle" or a "choice" as a gay man, just as a heterosexual man has no choice as to their attractions or sexual orientation. I am not a "preference" either! It's not like I can choose to be gay one day (at puberty etc) or not like deciding whether to wear a jacket or not outside, or whether to get drunk or not on a Friday evening at a party.

We all arrive in this world, without clothing, shoes, or a computer. But we all grow up to become aware of our gender, and at some point in time and developement we become aware of our sexuality. It's a gift from Creator, this life, our sexuality, our attractions, etc. Whether it is genetics (biological) or because Daddy did what he did to us, or whether it was because he didn't play enough Football with us, or because Mother was a psychotic B whack job of a woman/wife/mother I don't know.

I am responsible for my own person as an adult mentally, sexually and physically. If I post here, I do not expect to be told that my thoughts or my input is offensive, immature, and be told that I wasn't BORN this way, nor that I am trying to sow doubt/cause a stir/ that I am in the wrong place/ to grow up alittle. And then I can come back and post, simply because someone else disagree's with my thoughts and input onto this site.

For someone to do this, is offensive and immature! I am not here on this site to play around. I appreciate Bearaffe's posting because it does have merit. We all have our "issues" but we also don't need to be rejected either. I don't think Bearaffe was "playing around" and I certainly don't thnk that whome's rejection and asusmptions (my opinion here) reading Bearaffe's posting is really warranted. Just my .2 cents worth.


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#372989 - 10/21/11 01:29 AM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Bearaffe]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1734
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
I Apologize

I miss read the post, yes I do agree that some are born Gay, I have no problem with that, and that yes there might be a fantasy to have inessential relations with ones father.
I somehow missed the part where he said he was abused as a teenager, I do apologize. I was seeing red by the time I got to that.
I read his post as someone who had come here to "Stir things up".
This made me see red and I did not read properly.

So I do Publicly and unreservedly apologize to Bearaffe for my harsh response.
In future I promise to read and re read posts that anger me before posting a reply.

Bearaffe and the others I hope that you can accept my apology.
It was actually brave to have written what he did.

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#373029 - 10/21/11 04:14 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: whome]
Vadrian Offline


Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 110
Loc: Pacific
As an incest victim, I do find it offensive for people who were not victims of incest to come out and tell us what our abuse did or didn't cause. Like the OP, I know that the sexual abuse of my older brother caused my later sexual fetishes (though not my homosexuality, and not involving 'older men' as my brother was 1.5 years older than I...) Fetishes are very different from sexual orientations; my homosexuality is also natural, but many other things aren't.

It becomes really hurtful sometimes to have your truths doubted and thrown into the mud by other people's desire to defend themselves and their sexual desires. There is not one 'rule' to cover everyone, you might like older men or have an incest fetish for some other reason, but I don't think that means the OP is wrong about what caused his. Too many people with fetishes want to attack you for bringing up that yours was caused by childhood. And generally, in fact, there are a lot of people out there who want to insist that absolutely nothing at all was caused by our childhood abuse, often because they haven't examined themselves or their own life at all.

It also really bothers me on gay forums when I've seen people talking about how "hot" brother/brother incest is, leaving out the rape, PTSD, blood, depression, ruined lives, lack of consent, dark secrets, etc. that are the reality. Having experienced it and read a lot of REAL older brother incest accounts, I don't think it's sexy.



Edited by Vadrian (10/21/11 05:02 PM)

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#373031 - 10/21/11 04:29 PM My thought on the matter of.... [Re: whome]
GeorgeMartin Offline


Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 187
Loc: USA
I think that at times it is in our human nature to "see RED" and at first, I was a bit puzzled by what Bearaffe was attempting of convey. The one thing I did was notice that it was his very first post on this site. At least on the PUBLIC side of it anyway, and I do very much accept your apology whome. Thank you very kindly for doing so Matin.





Edited by GeorgeMartin (10/23/11 04:05 AM)

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#374462 - 11/06/11 02:23 PM Re: My thought on the matter of.... [Re: GeorgeMartin]
Bearaffe Offline


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 2
Sorry, But I've just had it. I spent years of my life questioning my sexuality, and then years questioning why my sexuality was oriented toward older men. Why should I question? Why should anyone question. Stop trying to be the victim and blaming everything on being the victim. No one ever told a woman she was attracted to older men because she was molested by her father. Taste can not be argued and it cannot be changed.

As to why I joined and posted that, there it is. NOT a victim of incest. YES it is a legitimate fetish, not always borne out of abuse. DEAL WITH IT.

If you happened to have been molested and happen to be gay and like older men, stop always trying to pathologize it. It could be worse. Straight boys who are molested by their fathers usually grow up to BEAT and KILL other gay men, rather than seeking them out for sex.



Edited by Bearaffe (11/06/11 02:24 PM)

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#374469 - 11/06/11 03:56 PM Re: My thought on the matter of.... [Re: Bearaffe]
Vadrian Offline


Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 110
Loc: Pacific
Bearaffe, I think you have problems with projection and transference; the OP never said anything about questioning his sexuality, what he did was examine how his incest later caused him to be attracted to older men. That is his personal truth and whether it is yours or not, you could at least respect him enough to leave him to it, and not post these hostile and insensitive messages. I think you're the one who has to DEAL with things involving other people and letting things go instead of defending yourself. This is not a website devoted to fetishes and pretending they are abstract and don't come from early life, nor a place to harass victims. Survivors come first here. Many of us know for a fact that yes, our fetishes did come from being abused.

And yes, being molested is pathological, and does have serious deleterious, widespread and lasting effects on our lives. I don't see your story here about how you were abused and what it did to your life. Why not share and receive the empathy and good will this site has to offer?



Edited by Vadrian (11/06/11 08:08 PM)

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#374523 - 11/07/11 01:19 AM Re: My thought on the matter of.... [Re: Bearaffe]
GeorgeMartin Offline


Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 187
Loc: USA
Stop trying to "Pathologize" the sexual abuse by a grown adult (father) to his young son (a child)? Am I reading this correctly?

What is NOT pathological and deviant about it?

The only reason "straight" heterosexual boys who are molested by their fathers usually grow up to beat and kill other gay men, rather than seeking them out for sexual encounters."

Well, there are several issues I have with this assumption. First of all, just because a straight/heterosexual man sexually abuses a another male younger or older does not make that perpetrator a homosexual. Nor does it make the victim of such assualt a gay person.

It could be worse?

Really? How so could it be worse? Perhaps he should have killed the victim he was molesting, thereafter?

I am not here to argue with you or anyone else, but I find your position Bearaffe, to be a bit "off" and while you have your opinions, I have my own 35+ years of dealing with the sexual abuse.

Yeah, stop pathologizing the abuse? Right.

It's easy for you to say that, sitting there with your fantasies, isn't it?

If I could, I would bring you into my childhood abuse day in day out, year after year, by those 'parents' and see if you can un-pathologize it Bearaffe.

Let's see you try to minimize what I went through as a young child, or what any other incest victim has gone through.

You have no idea, or you wouldn't be saying what you have.

Evil begins in the mind.


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#374631 - 11/08/11 08:30 AM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Sobernow]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 997
This thread fits me exactly. Thank you for starting it.

For me, it's a granddad incest fetish. Conservative looking white-haired men.

As my screen name indicates, I cannot remember any specific abuse, and I've come to terms with not knowing.

Either it happened with an older neighbor when I was between 5 and 7 years old and my brain has blocked it out to protect me, OR -- it never happened at all and I was born this way, OR -- it happened in a past life (even though my Catholic faith doesn't teach re-incarnation, I do keep this option open as an equally realistic option).

The point is, it doesn't matter whether it happened or not. I'm 35 and single, seemingly straight to those I meet, but all I want sexually is to feel like a boy with a mature man with white pubic hair and a big uncut manhood.

I have an older friend (former sex partner) who once told me that my desire for white pubic hair was a "fetish." I was offended at first because I'm really repulsed by most fetishes -- boots and leather and things like that. But I suppose he's right.

But you know what? I cannot change the past. What happened, happened, if it happened.

I have come to accept this part of me and try every day to merge my primary self-state with the part of me that craves sexual attention from old men.

I am no longer crippled by the nasty cocktail of shame, guilt and fear that gripped me in young adulthood when thinking about this part of my life. Anything in my childhood that caused me to be this way is not my fault.

While I am still in the closet as a man who has sex with men, and even deeper in the closet as a young man who fantasizes as a boy being molested by his grandfather -- I'm OK with it.

I don't try to pathologize my desires because I know that whatever happened to me is not my fault, and if nothing happened to me, then that's not my fault, either.

This Penn State abuse scandal story is throwing me for a loop... because in an online fantasy roleplay, I would get off playing the role of the boy being raped by his coach in the shower... but seeing that scene play out in real-life? Well, that's a totally different story.

I felt the collision of my self-states -- my primary self that lives in reality vs. my fantasy sexualized self. My initial reaction was un-emotional curiosity, then I realized the details of that story would turn me on if they were in an online chat room, but since I was reading them in a news story, all I could think about is how that coach has ruined another life -- another boy destined to grow into men like us: lost, wounded and confused.

I've had similar reactions reading priest-abuse news stories. First I think, "oh, that's kinda hot," then I read more and my stomach turns. I fetishize monsters.

The videos of the Penn State coach they are playing on the news show him playing basketball with some of his "at-risk youth," and the coach's body is incredibly athletic and muscular. And when you see his face, he has a mouthful of shark's teeth. An unbelievable monster. Yet with his neatly cut white hair, I think to myself, "oh, he's my type."

I look forward to the day when I can "come out" as a survivor of sex abuse (if that's indeed what I am), but until then I keep living the life that I've been given. It's not perfect, but it's the only one I got.

_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#374657 - 11/08/11 01:26 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: cant_remember]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 385
Loc: west coast
This is a tough post because there are some conflicting feelings partly due to separating idealized fantasy from actual “dad/son” sexual exploitation and abuse.

Part of it is that for a survivor, the ritualization of sexual encounters is common. This is one aspect of sexual addiction that separates it from normal sexuality. There is an obsessing about whatever the scenario is and it is just as important of not more so than the actual encounter itself. But the fantasizer usually never has the scene play out exactly as it is in his head and therefore there is no resolution and the cycle repeats. But this is not really what bearaffe realized when he “stirred the Pot”.

I contend that despite his opening qualifier , he knew his statement was going to be controversial. He talks of seeking it out “well into his teens”, we don’t know if it was after the age of consent but it sounds that way, and therefore if HE sought out sex , I am not sure that in the legal sense it could be considered abuse – incest with his cousins, yes (part of the normal relationship paradigm of European royalty for many years leading to hemophilia and really big ears) but abuse , unlikely by legal definition. So I am not sure that he is a survivor but I don’t think that really is the issue.

What’s troubling is the whole tone of his assertion. He talks about the abuse as being a “shame” that PS was molested. That is like saying that the effects on the survivor is at best unfortunate, I think we can all agree given the fallout in ALL our lives that this is a monumental underestimation of its devastating effects. It’s a shame if the movie sells out and you have to go another night. Being subjected to csa is not mearly a “shame”.

“No one ever pathologizes straight people when they are in intergenerational relationships.” Wrong! They do if the young woman/man is not of age, ( I am doing my best sista shake my head thang here, even tho I am a white Canadian older albeit gay male). And have you never heard of mary k Letourneau? . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzBTPNnV34E. yes teenage boys love MILFS but its in their heads. Like this poor guy, if it actually happens , not good.

Yup older men are hot, no question for some. But this is not a “non-traditional” relationship where again bearaffe completely misses the point. It is illegal exploitation of a young person who does not have the maturity to process being sexualized by an adult with the great power discrepancy and not a same age peer. So his point of yes young people can fantasize about older sexually mature and attractive men or women is lost. There is no crime in this, but society rightfully says it is not in the immature child or young teens interest to be a part of this until they are of an age when their psyche can appreciate and deal with it.

Yes its not easy to sometimes understand the genesis of our fetishes , it is tough enough to grasp our sexuality sometimes when the abuse robs us of our own ability to know ourselves. I always marveled at the guys who had it figured out from the start. But it is important to distinguish between fantasy and reality , what is a acceptable behind the closed doors of mutually consenting ADULTS and what is just f’d up exploitation of the young by an adult no matter what the young person has in his/her head. I can understand why georgemartin was so upset by bearaffe’s minimizing language and yet some of us say bearaffe has a point in there somewhere. Both are true, respect is something that has to be earned. I know we don’t want to be so politically correct that we cant express ourselves, I guess making sure we don’t discount or make light of others experiences, especially if we have never had the experience ourselves is really critical. I know it’s something I realize I have to work on everyday.

I just hope that by the football story coming out, more and more victims of exploitation will find the strength to realize they DO have a choice and that they too can come forward. No matter how painful or impossible it seems or will be in the short term, there is no question it is a better option in the long run. It’s about the SECRETS, the shame, the guilt, the damage done. It CAN start to heal. IT helps if we all "come out" about as much as we are able.

_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#374708 - 11/08/11 09:39 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: cant_remember]
Vadrian Offline


Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 110
Loc: Pacific
...w/e



Edited by Vadrian (11/09/11 09:40 PM)

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#380613 - 12/24/11 04:58 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: PSGuy760]
winstonvan Offline


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 1
Loc: New York
My mom died when i was 5 years old. About two years after that, my dad's male lover, David, moved into our home. He was very friendly, and we all got along well until I was 11--at that point David began coming in my room at night. He told me to by very quiet as he showed me his pornography. He would masturbate in front of me, and tell me to masturbate too.

I told my Dad about this, but he did nothing to stop David, and David continued coming to my bed a couple nights a week. He gradually became more aggressive until I was a teenager, when he started to rape me. This went on for years until i moved out of the house.

I've tried to talk to my dad about this recently, to understand why he would not help me, but he won't' discuss it. I've talked to David recently too (he's no longer living with my dad). David said that he was only with my dad to get to me, and my dad knew this. Apparently my dad was willing to sacrifice me to stay in the relationship with David.

This is what I had suspected for years, and I've been terribly bitter about it. I'm so angry at both of them, so hurt.

Despite this, after I confronted David, and we had discussed everything, we had sex, and we've continued having sex for about a month. It isn't the same as before--obviously it's consensual, and I'm an adult, but i feel so guilty and ashamed. i want to stop, but I'm very attracted to him now. as far as I know, he is not abusing other kids now, but I feel that i should report him instead of having sex with him


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#380724 - 12/26/11 12:23 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Sobernow]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
fascinating discussion guys.

_________________________
Jeff

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#380735 - 12/26/11 03:21 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: winstonvan]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1202
This conversation really hits home with me on a few levels. I was never put into an incestuous relationship with anyone in my family. But my dad had an opportunity to protect me from a known serial molester who lived next door to us. When it was decided that he would not be turned over to law enforcement, I was fully allowed to be his little buddy again. It seems they never knew I was a victim, even though I admitted to my mom I was (she has since claimed she remembers no such conversation, but I absolutely know we discussed it when I was 13). In essence, I felt like I was thrown to the wolf to keep him away from the little neighborhood girls.

Ever since I have tended to seek out older men and my sexual patterns remain very much as I learned them at the whims of my molester. I think part of that is a fusion of replaying my own abuse along with a sexualized interpretation of being in bigger, stronger, and older arms - a protection that I (non-sexually) should have had. But who knows how the sexual subconscious mind works? ...

The circuitous route that our mind makes is as hopelessly tangled as a knotted ball of fishing line - I could spend my whole life trying to unravel it, and I would remain baffled to my grave.

Winston actually mentioned a rekindled relationship with the man who sexually abused him when he was 11. That's all part of a pattern I am convinced we are almost doomed - sentenced - to repeat over and over again. I read about those who would gladly hurt, maim or even kill their molester and I wonder why I am not that far in my OWN recovery. I may not be sleeping with the man who abused me when I was 12, but I still sometimes crave to return to the abuse, perhaps to master it, perhaps in part driven by arousing memories that contradict the crime - that belie my own credibility with myself. So I am not surprised to hear Winston's account. When a child's sexual maturity is messed with, the wiring is almost hopelessly screwed up.

We are wired in part according to the circuits our molesters charged. That we may still find arousal in those old patterns - perhaps even with the original instigators - may seem incompatible with the crime. Yet that itself serves to reveal just how deep that crime has affected us - almost like an eternal sexual Stockholm syndrome.

_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#380741 - 12/26/11 03:58 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Chase Eric]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: Chase Eric
...a rekindled relationship with the man who sexually abused him when he was 11. That's all part of a pattern I am convinced we are almost doomed - sentenced - to repeat over and over again. I read about those who would gladly hurt, maim or even kill their molester.....


chase eric, i wish my desires were aligned by what winston wrote, for perhaps it would mean i had less anger at the time of rape. i "fantasize" that somehow a rape could have been part of something greater and smarter and emotional other than mind control. instead, i'm in the "kill" or revenge camp as adult and secretly applaud those guys brave enough to carry out revenge. meanwhile, there are 20 and 30 somethings online today who want a "dad," which repulses me simply because i'm the age of their fetish, and i'm beginning to think that desire is just their sentence from the pedophile.

but my sentence (at 47 and forever single) is to just become what society coins as "dirty old man" who can only find pleasure in online porn and no human contact.

so maybe my fetish is just the opposite of this thread. rather than find a dadish/incest figure for sex and comfort and protection, i seek an "equal partner" who will battle life with me as we support each other behind that white picket fence.... in the end, neither fetish is based in reality, in my view, but it is what keeps us going.



Edited by westchesterguy (12/26/11 04:02 PM)
_________________________
Jeff

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#380852 - 12/27/11 05:36 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: westchesterguy]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: westchesterguy
....i seek an "equal partner" who will battle life with me as we support each other behind that white picket fence.... in the end, neither fetish is based in reality, in my view, but it is what keeps us going.


I so agree with you. Brilliantly said - Bravo.

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#381205 - 01/01/12 02:29 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Chase Eric]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 997
Originally Posted By: Chase Eric
TWhen a child's sexual maturity is messed with, the wiring is almost hopelessly screwed up... almost like an eternal sexual Stockholm syndrome.


Well said. Exactly right. Bingo.

_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#381633 - 01/06/12 03:46 AM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Sobernow]
Darrick Offline


Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 27
Loc: So. California
Dear PSGuy-

I am not very good at words, but can say that I undersand your feelings. I too was molested by my father, a raging alcoholic. I had my hiding places where I would go when he came home from work (under the bed, under the house, hidden in the closet) but he always found me. I am a little boy stuck inside a man's body and I don't think that will ever change. For every older man I meet, my first desire is to please him sexually. I can go on and on, or try to analyze the situation, but in the end, the fact still remains - attraction to older men. For me, this is something that I need to control because it has gotten me into trouble many times.


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#393547 - 04/15/12 12:15 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: PSGuy760]
Scotsman Offline


Registered: 04/15/12
Posts: 1
Hi All

Just been reading the thread and connect with a lot of what has been discussed.

My brother was abused by my Uncle and then my brother started playings sex games with me. Ive never really thought of what my brother did as abuse as there is only 1.5 years between us but he did coerce me and I felt it was wrong at the time. I have no memory of my Uncle doing anything to me but I dont have much of a memory before the age of 8. My father left home when I was 8.

Ive always been attracted to older men. I came out as gay after years of confusion, shame, ect. but never been that confortable with being open about wanting to have sex with a father figure. Ive had relationships with older men that I have kept hidden from my "public" life.

Im 40 now and grey hairs are starting to show so being a "son" seems to be pushing it a bit. For me there is a big element of wanting to feel secure and safe, in daddys arms protected from the world. There is also physical and sexual pleasure but the emotional and psychological element is what attracts me.

One of the posts mentioned a "boy in a mans body", this struck a cord with me. I felt outside of the masculine as a young man. Issues of abandonment, insecurity, not being worthy enough acted as a block to my development. I had periods of drug abuse and homlessness. Being physicaly close to an archatypal father - big, strong, confident, secure - feeds my need to connect and absorb these elements into my inner emotional world.

Sometimes I get periods where I crave effection from a father figure. I visit gay saunas and have multipal sexual encounters, always with older grey haired stocky men. Ive realised the sex isnt what Im looking for but emotional connection with the masculine father.

Ive tried to make peace with my father after years of distance. Sometimes I think he may have abused me but have no memory of it. We still have a fairly distant relationship but get on ok now and he accepts my sexuality.

Not sure what my point is other than sharing my story. but glad there is a space to do so.

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#398231 - 05/23/12 11:17 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: nicedesertguy]
CB Offline


Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 1
Loc: Canada
i was abused by my dad for years. most of my teen years, i hid that dirty secret. today it plays heavily on my relationships and has defined who i am.

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#398238 - 05/24/12 12:37 AM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: PSGuy760]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3566
Loc: South-East Europe
Welcome to Male survivor Scotsman and CB,
I'm sorry to hear about your terrible experience. Hope you'll share and connect to others here. Please take some time and learn about resources available to us.
Maybe you could consider to repost your comments as separate threads in introduction part of board so other survivors could easy welcome you?
Be well!
pero
_________________________
My story

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#398482 - 05/27/12 04:19 AM . [Re: Vadrian]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
.


Edited by Life's A Dream (01/12/13 10:29 PM)

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#398713 - 05/29/12 04:36 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: PSGuy760]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/26/14 06:05 PM)
Edit Reason: SILENCED

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#403668 - 07/15/12 01:58 AM Re: My thought on the matter of.... [Re: Life's A Dream]
Vadrian Offline


Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 110
Loc: Pacific
Life's A dream, great post; I can really relate. My older brother perversely spanked me as part of his sexual abuse, and I later developed a spanking fetish as a result. Recently I recovered repressed memories about this happening for the first time, and now I'm starting to feel myself really pull away from those masochistic fantasies that were all tied back to him. Lately I found that this sort of porn started to hurt me emotionally and even caused more flashbacks to sexual abuse when I looked at it. I also developed a diaper fetish as a child from abusive incidents.

You're so right that these aren't just 'coincidences,' the deeper I delve into the reality of my past and examine how it's effected my life, the less coincidences I see in general. Like you, I also have outside evidence to prove my repressed memories are definitely true, not that I need that proof anymore since I beleive myself 100%. But both this and the imprinting are definitely real and valid.


Edited by Vadrian (07/15/12 01:59 AM)

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#405865 - 08/04/12 08:16 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: PSGuy760]
strapper Offline


Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 2
Loc: Provincetown MA

I just want to know why my step-father thought so little of me that he make me afraid of everyone I meet and ashamed of myself. I want to know why my real father left me behind instead of protecting me and teaching me how to be a real man?

I want to know how I can undo these things.


Thanks you BobCat for a dream I am looking forward to having.

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#405866 - 08/04/12 09:03 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: PSGuy760]
Vadrian Offline


Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 110
Loc: Pacific
Strapper, welcome! While naturally I don't know your father or step-father, I can say with certainty that their reasons were about them, not you. It wasn't because there was something wrong with you or that you could have changed or been different and pleased them. It wasn't your fault, and regardless of what went on their heads, you deserved better. What they did was inexcusable, you had rights and deserved love and respect. I'm sure you're fine as you are and quite 'real' enough. Understanding and connecting with your feelings and examining the false messages the abuse sent to you will go a long way towards undoing the damage.


Edited by Vadrian (08/04/12 09:10 PM)

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