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#324123 - 03/05/10 09:30 AM unmanageable anger
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
i'm extremely angry. and the worst part is that it has nothing at all to do with sexual abuse! i have absolutely no one or nothing to blame, except the guy in the mirror.

i'm angry that tomorrow is my b'day and i will close another year alone. and i do not write that for well wishes - i do not need reminders.

i'm angry that the new world order is online -- including this place - and i continue to fall for emotional pranks disguised as real.

just to review: the first prank started in nov. when i met a guy through dating site; only to find out in jan. he only wanted sex and not an ltr. lesson learned -- screen guys better.

so, met another guy online three weeks ago and we moved it offline to telephone two weeks ago.

not one phone call with him lasted less than four hours, one lasted six hours. (not amazing? what was that about?) we were going to finally meet in person today! just simply meet, have a coffee and that was that. but he has vanished. nearly 60 hours talking on telephone the past two weeks - must have been meaningless and valueless after all. and i do not understand how or why.

i never sought compliments... so why now have two guys praised me so highly only to turn around and disappear?

these games drive me mad they are a nemesis i cannot fight. a friend of mine said that maybe i need a shrink. my answer -- what is a shrink going to say? “you need to meet people,” well duh. i just saved myself $200 with that conclusion.

what i really need is to swing a sledge hammer - break rocks until i collapse from total exhaustion. that is real. that is offline. and anything that puts me to sleep relieves me of this anger and hopelessness for at least a few hours.

_________________________
Jeff

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#324128 - 03/05/10 10:13 AM Re: unmanageable anger [Re: westchesterguy]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
jeff, i think you managed that anger quite well! yes, it can be frustrating.

i've not had 'luck' with dating sites either, and i've netted similar results in my experience. what i've learned on the other side of these experiences is there is definitely no guarantees that the people who put themselves out there necessarily interpret the purpose of these sites in exactly the same way i do.

why did these types of sites arise? because someone realized there was financial gain inherent in capitalizing on people romance mythologies. and yes, foolishly we buy into it. just pay the price, and it can be whatever you 'need' it to be.

you never know who the people are you are getting in touch with. you want to believe they are being as honest as you are, but pretense seems to be the order of the day in these places. especially if you are dealing with gay males, or people feigning true homosexuality who will use gay males for sexual purposes. many of the guys on these sites advertise their birthday suits as their best face, and that's all well and good if you're looking for sex. but what if you want something else? like deep and meaningful connection to another human being [such as you perhaps never had before now?] most guys think with their dicks relentlessly pursuing that orgasmic climax [dismissing the concurrent yet elusive intimacy that is meant to be part of the experience]. it gets old after a while. after all, if i want good sex, i'd rather have it with a person who knows best my likes and needs, and currently that person is: ME!.

it's a good thing i also have a great intimate relationship with myself and like myself as well, otherwise my theory would be full of holes.

still, i feel your pain, and like you would be gratified to meet another person to develop intimacy with and share some of the finer things in life, like love, joy and honesty.

but i won't hold my breath except to whistle

warm regards,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#324129 - 03/05/10 10:15 AM Re: unmanageable anger [Re: westchesterguy]
Ischyros Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 78
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Hey Jeff,

Anybody who spends hours on the phone with you and then can't show up for a cup of coffee, as he told you he would, suffers from a serious psychological problem. It's called "being a jerk."

Not to be flip about it, but this is just plain rude and crude and awful. I'm sorry to hear you experienced this. Unfortunately I've had other friends recount the same kind of thing, and I've been through it as well. After multiple lengthy phone calls I finally told a guy I met online that I needed to see him face to face or I felt like we couldn't continue the conversations - and he exploded in anger and told *me* that *I* had serious problems, etc. etc.!

Sounds to me like you and I are *not* the crazy ones here!

My rule of thumb these days is - if someone isn't willing to move from "virtual" to "coffee in a public place" in pretty short order, he has something to hide, and I'm movin' on.

Hope your day gets better!

_________________________
Proud survivor and WoR alumnus - Sequoia, April 2010

I want to live in the world
Not inside my head
I want to live in the world
I want to stand and be counted
With the hopeful and the willing
With the open and the strong...

--Jackson Browne, "Alive In the World"

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#324131 - 03/05/10 10:50 AM Re: unmanageable anger [Re: Ischyros]
TheBobcatAgain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 506
Loc: AZ, U.S.A.
Hey, Jeff, buddy.

Ischyros brought up the same point I was going to make. Just because these two men didn't want to be with you, that doesn't mean it was about YOU. Maybe they had issues. Maybe they were afraid you would reject them, so they rejected you first. Maybe they weren't sure they were ready for a relationship. Maybe meeting face-to-face wasn't as comfortable as talking on the phone. Maybe they were afraid of taking another "step" into the relationship. Maybe they felt THEY were inadequate. And, yes, maybe they took a look at you and decided you weren't what they pictured. So what? Frankly, I think that says more about THEM than it does about YOU. But it would have been polite at least to have given you an explanation.

I'm not sure why you are angry about your birthday being tomorrow, though. Does it have to do with you being alone? If it is, I don't see anything wrong with that; but that's just me - I've never been in a relationship with anyone, so I admit that I don't know what I'm missing. But what's wrong with being alone, or single? It's not a sin, is it? If you're lonely, you have family, friends, and all of us here at MS. And if you just miss romance, you can always try again, right?

I hope this helps you, buddy. For what it's worth, I think you're worth a lot and deserve much better than those two guys.

Your good friend,

Bobcat

_________________________
You don't have to be perfect to be wonderful.

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#324133 - 03/05/10 11:03 AM Re: unmanageable anger [Re: Sans Logos]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: Sans Logos
......you want to believe they are being as honest as you are, but pretense seems to be the order of the day in these places. especially if you are dealing with gay males, or people feigning true homosexuality who will use gay males for sexual purposes...


the process of screening also brings into question my own skills. i firmly believe that i'm conducting myself in proper form; however, these two experiences challenge my ability.

both guys heavily advertised themselves as christian. both clearly stated "no sex." the christian part i can give/take i just don't care. i would not even begin responding with anyone who shows skin online. but when the first screening is done and correspondence is moved from email to voice or in person, the real test begins in my view.

i am the one who starts those deep conversations, first of all because i'm comfortable doing so. if this makes the other guy uncomfortable - this is a red flag to me... and it would go no further. but when those deep discussions are reciprocated i believe this is genuine.

i realize a lot of this is not "about me" however this is of no use to either of us is it? i accept all gay men have baggage simply because we are gay. i avoid perfection, it is a turn off.

so, why is it so difficult for guys to understand this and see that i am being genuine, and fully accept them with their faults?

is that even the right question? i don't know anymore.

i just know that even though 'bar' scenes had their issues too - the games played over drink were far far easier to understand and keep in check. virtual reality, the new gay bar, stinks and i just do not understand the rules.

_________________________
Jeff

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#324139 - 03/05/10 11:52 AM Re: unmanageable anger [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: TheBobcatAgain
...Maybe they had issues.


bobcat, i believe that i knew the answers to those questions which makes this even more difficult. both guys do have issues, and they were open about them, which made the correspondence (in person with first guy, telephone with second) even more sincere in my view.

first guy was not ready as advertised, fine, he lied as it turned out, shit happens. i moved on. number two and i both agreed this is not about a potential lover/relationship right now... there was no pressure. we both agreed that past experiences taught us "no first date perse" just meeting with the idea to be friends: 100% cool and responsible by my standards too.

its easy to doubt our 'looks,' which i sometimes do; however, and rather wonderfully, that was not the case. lol.

Originally Posted By: TheBobcatAgain
...I've never been in a relationship with anyone, so I admit that I don't know what I'm missing. But what's wrong with being alone, or single? It's not a sin, is it?....


bobcat baby! god did you hit touchy subjects with that one. lol.

i appreciate your kindness, but remember where i'm coming from - this is virtual... the same virtual reality that has me so angry in the first place. :-)

to the issue of loneliness -- sometimes family/friends can't make the grade.

i (we) have an eternity to be alone after this life.

why spend the few days we have here doing exactly what our fate brings anyway?

i have not been touched by another guy in eight years.... until january. and even though the first guy and i only made out, it became ever so apparent to me after we broke up that month that all else in life was meaningless -- outside of human touch.

life is short men, although that is apparently taboo to admit. 40 one day, 60 the next, and then its over. this is not morbid - it is simply reality.

doesn't anyone else understand that fundamental point? hasn't anyone here watched someone die? its a remarkable experience if you ask me, because all i know is that when my time comes i do not want my last thoughts to be "damn! i wrote great posts on message boards!" and "damn i was so lucky to have 1,000 facebook friends - none of whom i ever met!"

i want to die remembering a kiss with the man i love.

i want to go out as a great romantic should - still in love.

this is what recovery taught me - that overcoming violent rape meant that yes, you can feel again, and yes you can live again, and you can celebrate those feelings with another guy who cherishes living while we still are! (not saying take the first man that comes along - that isn't the same.)

_________________________
Jeff

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#324145 - 03/05/10 12:45 PM Re: unmanageable anger [Re: westchesterguy]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 725
Loc: United States
Hey Jeff,

I felt very similar to some of the feeling you express back in the 90s. I spent a long time isolated, without the intimacy that I longed for.

What I learned is that when I accepted that I may end up being alone and that it would be okay, not great but okay, much of the barriers and problems in forming the kind of relationships I had wanted dissipated. I think what happened is that I built a new kind of relationship with myself, I felt freer to be the real me and in doing that, people seemed to be drawn to that person.

I've become convinced that finding the right person is a numbers game. I had to find ways to meet more people (in the real world) that I shared things in common with. Ironically, it was when I was taking a break from putting out personal ads that I met my current partner - through his personal ad.

Are there any social or activity groups that you're interested in that could be a way of meeting and relating to guys in the real world? It's hard work, but putting yourself out there is the best way to find what you're looking for.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#324149 - 03/05/10 01:11 PM Re: unmanageable anger [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: Ever-fixed Mark
...What I learned is that when I accepted that I may end up being alone and that it would be okay, not great but okay, much of the barriers and problems in forming the kind of relationships I had wanted dissipated....


yes, was there as well for the past eight years -- comfortably living alone in gay mecca manhattan of all places. :-D

but i left manhattan in large part because of my job. i could not be seen in a gay bar... or risk being seen with an online ad. not stupid enough yet to risk job loss. lol.

this however changed... when i moved to the 'burbs where i now live next door to a happily married gay couple (with child) who are also in their 40s. they met online four years ago. and they suggested i give online a try.

i went into it simply thinking that meeting, dating, new friends, was a possibility not a sure bet.

i take for granted that everyone here knows the other obvious issues that narrow this search online.... how many 45yr olds "only" want to meet 25yr olds? as one example.

none of us can compete with a fetish.

as for other venues - continue to check them out yes. started going to a gay friendly church.... which is something i never thought i would do again. with manhattan only 40 miles away though, one could ask, why would a single guy not be living there until you secure a relationship - and then build the dream house in the suburbs for you both to enjoy?

well, as a confirmation of being content alone -- i act and live alone, moved ahead alone, built the dream house alone. assbackwards still?

_________________________
Jeff

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#324152 - 03/05/10 01:26 PM Re: unmanageable anger [Re: westchesterguy]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Hey Jeff , congrats on starting a thread of significance in a forum reserved for those of use who struggle with issues specific to our particular brand of recovery LOL

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#324163 - 03/05/10 03:55 PM Re: unmanageable anger [Re: westchesterguy]
TheBobcatAgain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 506
Loc: AZ, U.S.A.
Jeff,

Is it okay if I argue just two points with you, in a friendly way? I'm not trying to offend you or tell you your thinking is wrong, or anything like that. I would just like to show you my perspective.

First, I don't feel like I'm going to be alone when I "shuffle off this mortal coil," to borrow from Shakespeare. I rather like the idea of rejoining my loved ones in the afterlife. But every man has a different idea of life after death, and I respect yours. I just wanted to share my own, if that's okay?

Second, you said, outside of being in love with someone who loves you back, everything else in life is meaningless (I'm paraphrasing - correctly, I hope). Since I have never been in love and probaby never will be, I again admit that I have no right to talk about a subject with which I'm not even familiar. But I still think life can have lots of meaning for you, buddy. Helping people is a big one for me. In the grocery store the other day, I gave my shopping cart to a lady struggling with too many items in her arms, and I went and got another cart. Jeff, if you could have seen the look of wonder, awe, and gratitude on her face that someone else would do that for her...it made my day, it really did. I was so proud of myself. I helped someone, and it felt great! You help people too, Jeff. I know, because you've got a big heart. That's a rare thing today.

Okay, argument over. smile

But I do respect you for being a romantic. I think that's awesome. And I hope you find the man of your dreams, later if not sooner. Maybe he's worth the wait?

In case I forget (which could very likely happen!) to say this tomorrow: Happy Birthday, Jeff. I'm giving you a safe hug, okay? (((((Jeff))))) Hope your birthday is your best one yet.

Your friend,

Bobcat

_________________________
You don't have to be perfect to be wonderful.

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