Taz, Charlie, Dale,
My view right off the bat. I believe in circumcision and don't see it as a form of abuse or genital mutilation.
Thanks for the posts & insight. Taz, I read that article and to be honest, I found many of her points had more of a basis in emotions & her personal views rather than science or even reason. Her second reference not only rebukes her own argument about preventing disease but renders her point moot. Comparing a cut penis to female genital mutilation where the clitoris is removed so the women can't feel pleasure & have an orgasm??? Please stop. And what's a visionary pioneer?
However, you're right, it's good to generate a debate, hopefully civil & respectful. Way to engage and be out front!
Charlie, I am the opposite. I am the circumcised male of an uncircumcised father. I also disagree, respectfully, that it's a form of genital mutilation being perpetrated on our male babies.
Does it remove some sensitive foreskin from the penis? Yes. Do men who have circumcisions orgasm, tend to last longer due to less sensitivity & enjoy sexual intercourse? Yes. Can you say the same about female genital mutilation? No.
This seems to be analogous, correct me if you feel I am wrong, to this whole let's be our child's friend, not their parent psycho-babble along w/ letting kids make their own choices since we're just their caretakers logic. Too many parents want to be the good guy/girl and so they put off or avoid making tough decisions or let the child just do what they want as a "free spirit."
You see these children all the time at restaurants, malls, coffee shops, theaters, museums, art galleries, train stations, airports, grocery stores...Aren't they just a joy to be around w/ their friends aka parents?
Dale, I know what we talked about before, but I still want to give you props. I agree w/ almost all of your points, especially on the not being child abuse aspects and applaud your willingness to share your thoughts on it and why you had one. Thank you.
Here's where I stand. I had a circumcision since my mom's Jewish, albeit secular, and she was the one calling the shots. My dad was also 1/2 Jewish but on his father's side. Not sure why my grandmother didn't have him circumcised but since my grandfather abandoned her, he didn't really have a say.
There are the obvious hygiene & sexual perks to having a circumcised penis but I think all of us know what those are, whether w/ a woman or man.
I've never had a problem w/ my penis being circumcised but could see how someone who wasn't, especially in the locker room, have problems or issues about it. There were problems related to my CSA but that would've have cropped up regardless of being cut/uncut.
I do have a son and yes, he's circumcised for both religious, my wife's part Jewish as well, and health reasons. Was my wife totally on board w/ it? No. Did she let me make the decision as the husband and male? Yes. I talked to the doctor who performed it, didn't have a bris, and she said that the boys will never know what happened or remember the pain.
How about all of the foot pricks they do on girls and boys to draw blood or the babies who have to have tubes to breathe or their umbilical cord cut? Is that also abuse?
There so many studies on this issue and the one cited in your article by Dr. Gray from Johns Hopkins might be one of the best ones out there laying out both sides and what happens when children are not circumcised.
Two final points. The UN can go screw themselves if they try to equate circumcision w/ the practice of female genital mutilation and by doing so, attempt to ban it worldwide.
Secondly, it will continue to be debated and contested for years to come but the parent still gets to have the final say, not the state, not the UN, not someone in authority who has an axe to grind for whatever reason.
Besides, President Obama's in favor of circumcision for everyone.
Take care and thanks for the respectful debate so far.