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#321906 - 02/12/10 12:40 PM married to csa survivor
ninaboo1974 Offline


Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 2
Hi all, am married to a wonderful man who has been struggling to overcome the impact of csa by a man. He suffers with depression and has many of the same issues that I hear others on this forum talk about. I really want to help him find peace and happiness and I have begun to think that this will not involve me. I have got him to open up to me. The main source of his distress right now is shame. Shame that he did actually get pleasure from the sex. my question is, if you liked sex with another man in the past (and that is your first experience), is it likely that you are actually gay. Is he really battling to denie his sexual identity. I could cope with it right now, but not years in the future.


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#321908 - 02/12/10 12:51 PM Re: married to csa survivor [Re: ninaboo1974]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Quote:
my question is, if you liked sex with another man in the past (and that is your first experience), is it likely that you are actually gay.


No, it does not. This issue comes up here frequently which means that he (and you) are not alone or having a unique experience. I think you'll see a lot of responses to this, especially if you search the archives for this topic.

This forum was set up partially to deal with that very question.

Welcome to MS.


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#321922 - 02/12/10 07:39 PM Re: married to csa survivor [Re: ninaboo1974]
ninaboo1974 Offline


Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 2
Thank you for your response. I did believe in what you said and I guess that is why I could get my husband to talk to me about it in such detail. I did however start reading these forums and find that maybe there is another reality. It seems that many men do realise after marriage that they really are more interested in men. I this csa does give the survivor a stronger ability to disassociate or feel less about their relationships or maybe it is a sense "nobody cared about hurting me....so why should I care about hurting someone else". For all csa survivors, you cannot measure your hurt against someone else's and you can be happy...you will never forget but you can be happy.


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#321951 - 02/13/10 12:59 AM Re: married to csa survivor [Re: ninaboo1974]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
It is a hard question. My wife and I discussed this today. Are my attractions to males caused by my CSA or is it something I was born with. The best answer is I don't know. I do have attractions to males. I do enjoy sex with my wife. For me, that enjoyment and intimacy is what I want in reality. I do view gay porn frequently. I have not had sex with a male since being married. Does CSA cause homosexuality. The only way to prove it one way or another is to take identical twins, separate them at birth and give one to a straight couple and the other to a known pedophile. Since this is unethical in the extreme, we will never know. Even with the experiment, would the results be conclusive? I only know that the gay feelings are not going away. My love for my wife will not either.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#321958 - 02/13/10 06:13 AM Re: married to csa survivor [Re: catfish86]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Hi ninaboo,

As Ken says, no it does not. Aside from all of the information you can find
about these ease with which a young male's body can be stimulated in what is percieved as a pleasing fashion, taking on an attitude of "I'm enjoying this" can also be a useful coping tool in dealing with the trauma. In my case for instance I never forgot the abuse, I just only really remembered through the lens of that particular coping tool. I have since remembered how liking it was sure as he'll not the only thing going on in my head at the time. That being said, is it likely that this issue will drag down a straight man's psyche??? I did gay things... Doesn't that have to mean something???? Yeah it meanns we were sexually abused by other males. For gay men the fallout vis-a-vis this question will be different but not easier.

Sono

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#322088 - 02/14/10 02:01 PM Re: married to csa survivor [Re: ninaboo1974]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2465
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: ninaboo1974
Hi all, am married to a wonderful man who has been struggling to overcome the impact of csa by a man. He suffers with depression and has many of the same issues that I hear others on this forum talk about.


I am glad that you recognise the great struggle that your husband is working through- a struggle not of his choosing, something forced on him by somebody else. It is difficult and something that he will need support with.

Originally Posted By: ninaboo1974
I really want to help him find peace and happiness and I have begun to think that this will not involve me.


Recovering from CSA can be a complex issue, and although you can do your part in learning about some of the issues that he may be dealing with, listening to what he has to say, and learning what the things not to say are (because you may not understand how harmful they may be to him even if you do not intend them to be harmful), he should look for an experienced therapist to help him.

Originally Posted By: ninaboo1974
I have got him to open up to me.


It is good that he feels that he can talk to you, that is essential for a healthy relationship. However, it can be like opening somebody up on a surgery table and leaving him there not knowing what to do. This is why it is good to employ the knowledge of therapists. Recovery and disclosure should also be done through methods of his choosing, pace, and under his control. It is important that he feels in control of his own healing process and that he is not rushed.

Originally Posted By: ninaboo1974
The main source of his distress right now is shame. Shame that he did actually get pleasure from the sex. my question is, if you liked sex with another man in the past (and that is your first experience), is it likely that you are actually gay.


I guess i shouldn't be surprised at this question, it is a good one, and i am glad you asked it, but the answer, i hope, is quite obvious. Firstly, yes, shame can be a huge one for survivors- abusers often act in a way to induce shame in a child, whether this to be to keep the child silenced, humiliate the child, or increase his sense of power and control over the child. An abuser may point out that the child is "liking" what is happening to make this work to his own favour- perpetuating silence, abuse and control. It is not suprising that a survivor may retain a feeling of shame, especially on realising the way in which they were manipulated and prevented from speaking out. A child can feel ashamed if he enjoys certain feelings from the abuse (a child can like certain feelings, and be stimulated, but can at the same time be frightened, and it doesn't mean he wants what is happening). Even abusers who abuse young boys often do not identify as homosexual- you must understand that abuse is about power and control over a vulnerable child. A boy who is abused by an adult has no real choice over what is happening, and may over time be conditioned to the abuse or groomed. There is no real choice involved here, and although some people do identify as gay in their adult life this is not connected to the abuse they received from a man- abuse does not equal a relationship.

So, let me just stress this, just if a person is abused by a man, it doesn't make him gay. What happened to your husband may be able to be described as a physical act of sex, but it was abuse. Yes, if a person is stimulated in certain ways there may be a nice sensation, but it doesn't change the fact that this was abuse. And it wasn't his choice that that was his "first experience".

If a woman abused you when you were a little girl it wouldn't make you a lesbian, would it? If youl liked it and it was your first experience does that mean you are really a lesbian? i mean, according to your arguement, if you were abused by a woman then that means that you are "likely" "actually" a lesbian, does that seem sensible?

Originally Posted By: ninaboo1974
Is he really battling to denie his sexual identity. I could cope with it right now, but not years in the future.


Of course, sexual identity issues are things that we have to look at, it can seem confusing, but probably for more subtle and convoluted reasons than you understand at the moment. Keep asking questions and learning, i think it is good that you show an interest in your husbands recovery.

Lewis

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#322090 - 02/14/10 02:08 PM Re: married to csa survivor [Re: ninaboo1974]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2465
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: ninaboo1974
"nobody cared about hurting me....so why should I care about hurting someone else".


I am not sure i understand this statement, just because we were abused, it does not make us monsters...

I think in a way i perhaps can see where your statement comes from, and can see that it wasn't written in a bad way, but i think right now what your husband probably needs is caring and love. Perhaps, taking from your statement, you could help him with his recovery by counteracting the statement "nobody cared about hurting me"- by telling him that what happened to him was wrong, that it should have never happened, that you love him just as much now that you know about his abuse that you did before, and that you respect his courage and bravery in talking about it. Tell him that although he wasn't treated very well, he deserved to be treated better.



Edited by king tut (02/14/10 05:32 PM)
Edit Reason: improved wording that seemed contradictory
_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#322138 - 02/14/10 11:04 PM Re: married to csa survivor [Re: king tut]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
ninaboo,

In the past I have posted that just because a loved one has suffered CSA is no excuse for you to accept abuse from him. In the same token, while there is a struggle, if a loved one is faithful, non-abusive to you or others and reciprocates your feelings,I would say there is no reason to break up a relationship just because there are problems he has to deal with. I am so thankful that I have found my wife who is willing to deal with my problems. We don't agree on everything, but she told me today that the best valentines day gift I could have given her is letting me into my entire world, no matter how painful.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Top
#322287 - 02/16/10 02:35 AM Re: married to csa survivor [Re: catfish86]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1960
I did not read through this whole thread but read your initial question. Something to think about that I myself have pondered:

"If I find that the act of masturbation was pleasurable does that mean I like hands?"

Sorry, I don't mean to be crude. My point is that the body is programmed biologically to respond to stimulation. Here is my reality on the matter: my first sexual experiences involved a male peer that I didn't want to do but circumstances ultimately led to them happening (which is why I am here). I like females, but that is not to say I haven't been through hell or get insecure. But in the end I know what I am attracted to when I am allowed to feel what I really feel without all the voices in my head telling me I can't.

What your husband is going through is one of the bad effects of abuse. It messes with your sense of self. Sexuality is a core part of our being I am convinced. I should have never even known to the depths I know these things related to sexuality. Plain and simple, I should have never experienced the same-sex contact that happened. It is not who I am nor is it anything I ever fantasized about or wanted (and for that matter I can't really say I ever wanted or fantasized afterward). I'm not judging it, I'm saying I personally do not believe it was part of who I am at my core being.

Okay, what I am getting at is that if your husband can start to deal with the abuse he can sort through all sorts of lies and misunderstandings that one usually can't figure out on their own because it really takes some outside perspective. If your husband is a good guy and not mean or abusive, be easy on him and maybe as best you can be an ally to his healing. It can get better, and the personal growth that can come from understanding the whys and whats of the effects of abuse really helps beyond words.

Eric


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#322359 - 02/16/10 09:39 PM Re: married to csa survivor [Re: ericc]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
ninaboo,

I will also say this about my own situation and maybe you can discuss it with your husband. When I was in college, I was a committed christian and yet had regular homosexual fantasies. After much time in counseling I came to the conclusion that I was still excited by females and thus at the very least bisexual. Since I was a christian (and I understand not everyone agrees with this, but this is my thinking in deciding how to live MY life, not my judgment of others) I felt the best outcome for me was to get married and have a family. I then started dating a young lady and we did fall in love. I was honest to her and my vow, as a bisexual person, simply meant I was forsaking everyone else of either sex where most others may only mean other women.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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