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#319979 - 01/24/10 06:38 PM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: DJsport]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
I hear your pain too Dale, Mike, and Anonymous. I too was a victim of an extremist fundamentalist faith-healing religion, most of my first 7 abusers were from that religion, a religion that today only has 100K members worldwide. My own mother let a deranged Vietnam-era Marine stay with me for two weeks while my folks were out of town in the Summer of 1972 when I was age 14, just because he had been brought-up in our church. A few weeks later she beat me up really badly because I had accused this guy of abusing me, because he was from our church, hence I had to be lying, because people from "our" church do not do those kinds of things. My own mother also refused to allow a doctor to set my broken leg when I was age 12 for 3 days, claiming her right to religious freedom, then wouldn't allow an ER doctor to use a pain injection to rebreak my leg, also exerting her legally-protected religious freedom allegedly to protect me from the medical community, which her church is at odds with.

I could go on and on. Needless to say, neither my sisters or me ever got any medical care for anything, nor any therapy for our victimization, when we were in our time of need. Then we had to find-out the hard way about the medical community as each of us struggled to overcome our lack of trust issues brought about by our victimization as kids. All three of us have managed to break our ties with my mom's cult, but none of us have managed to recover any belief in religion as a result. Our mother is a widely-respected Christian Science Practitioner and Teacher with a cadre of ultra-devoted followers willing to die for her. My dad died because he refused to seek medical help, as did several other of my relatives.

Am I attacking religion? Yes, I am attacking my mother's religion, from which most of my victimization occurred. Our ancestors allegedly came to this country for religious freedom. What I want is freedom FROM religion. Unless you are from my mother's church, I am not out to disparage your religious beliefs. You have to understand my perspective too, and understand how many times I was forced to suffer for my mother's legally-protected religious beliefs. I have moved into a position of freedom in my recovery, freedom from my mother's religion is a part of that. After she is gone likely I will become an outspoken critic of religious freedom legislation, my sisters too. There is no reason for children to have to suffer like my sisters and I were forced to suffer, just because of our parent's religious addiction.

Again, not to disparage anyone's else's religious beliefs, some of my best friends are highly religious people too. For whatever reason, I am one of these people that will stick-up for the rights of the minority members of our society, those who have trouble with religion too.

I'll leave you now with a song that I found on YouTube for Lynchmob. I think that its message applies here too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpfj_pmv3W8

To each his own, as long as you don't step on my toes.

Mark

Denver has a number of churches, yet our society here is also quite tolerant of other people and their rights too.


_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#320008 - 01/24/10 09:33 PM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Trucker51]
InsideTheWall Offline


Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 281
Trucker,

Its amazing what society puts up with in the name of religious freedom. Some of these cults are more evil than child molesters but people leave them alone because they're "religions."



Edited by Anonymous (01/25/10 12:15 AM)

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#320073 - 01/25/10 03:47 AM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: InsideTheWall]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Back when the US was more of a religious country than it is now, and this religion (and other similar fringe religions) were better-attended and had more money to throw around, they were able to get legislation passed at the State and Federal level exempting their members from certain medical practices that most Americans take for granted. In some States children of this faith are exempted from having to take immunizations, for instance. In many States, a parent of this religion can legally refuse emergency medical assistance for their injured child. More recently, there have been successful prosecutions where a parent neglected their own children to death, several of these cases were where parents refused to give their children insulin, instead relying on faith-healing, unsuccessfully, for instance. Over the last decade, a number of States have withdrawn the religious freedom exemptions that this religion had at one time enjoyed all across the country, yet there are still a majority of States where parents are allowed to deny their children medical care on religious freedom grounds, no matter how far out in dreamland the particular religion is.

My ancestors were all either Lutheran or Episcopalian, but it has been 4 generations now since both sides of my family got shanghaied into this cult religion, which did not even exist before the late 1800s. There is such a thing as a victim of childhood sexual abuse loosing their belief in God or a higher power, I am one of them, my sisters are too. Thankfully the scourge of this cult ends with my generation in my family. Whether or not I recover any religious beliefs is yet a matter of conjecture. Like everyone else, I should have the freedom to believe whatever I want to believe, and I should have the right to speak my beliefs without getting attacked for my beliefs too.

Hopefully we are all mature enough to take a step back from the precipice and offer an olive branch to those that we may have offended. Let's try to remember what our primary focus here is. We are here working together to try to find our freedom from what was done to us as children.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#320721 - 01/30/10 01:21 PM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Trucker51]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 729
Loc: United States
Reading this thread and trying to understand what actually happened is very difficult with what seems like very significant redactions of previous posts.

What I can glean from what remains is this - one person's saving grace can be another person's trigger and torment.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#320725 - 01/30/10 02:25 PM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
well put mark. all i can say in response is 'such is a bad hair day in the life of malesurvivor'. whistle

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#320869 - 02/01/10 05:45 AM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
ComicBookGuy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 443
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: Ever-fixed Mark
Reading this thread and trying to understand what actually happened is very difficult with what seems like very significant redactions of previous posts.

What I can glean from what remains is this - one person's saving grace can be another person's trigger and torment.

-efm


That's where I came into this thread, I've no idea what Dewey said so can't comment. I was brought up Methodist, the CSA incident happened in an Anglican primary school. Take a guess which denomination I can't be bothered with to this day, and that's just two branches of the same faith. If I was ever going to practice religion again, I'd return to the Methodists, but I moved churches twice as a child, so after all the chopping and changing, I'd have to get to the right place in healing to go through Door Number 3 back to where I started.

I keep the Bible and my personal dislike of someone completely separate, once someone manifestly proves to me that they're an idiot (or my pet hate, a gossip), I wouldn't check my Bible for a passage that gave me divine licence to dislike them without seeing them up close first. I'd have stopped bothering with that person in general because life's too short.



Edited by ComicBookGuy (02/01/10 05:48 AM)
_________________________
- CBG

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#321158 - 02/04/10 05:29 PM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: ComicBookGuy]
Joren Offline


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 51
Loc: US
Everyone,

I am only able to respond here thanks to Ron (San Logos) sending me a PM. Unfortunately once the thread was moved I was unable to get to it. I am terribly uncomfortable going to the religious area due to my own personal issues, which I am trying to get help with.

Let me give more background and maybe this will help. No, my CSA was not by a church member. But the one person I was able to tell was a church member who told me to "deal with it". He was the pastor. My little brother happens to be flamboyantly gay and I saw every form of verbal/physical abuse dished out to him by nearly every single member of THREE very large churches. It was not just the kids either - the adults were far worse and far more cruel about it.

I can honestly say that in MY personal experience I have never had a religious person do anything but belittle or attack me - sometimes physically - for being different.

What I am trying to do is figure out how do I work through this? For some reason, the few I have asked always try to preach to me (being gay is choice, you're going to hell, blah blah blah) rather then giving advice that might help.

Ron was right - I posted this request in the LGBT forums for a specific reason. I needed advice from others who have had to work through similar issues and trust me, the LGBT people have HAD to.

I realize now that religion is simply too contentious a topic to get help from on here. I won't be checking this thread anymore since it's been moved but I felt that an explanation was in order. I now know that I will not be likely to find any help on this topic here and I find that truly sad because it seems I am unwelcome in some way or another every place I go. I AM thankful for those who have tried to be reasonable and bring the discussion around.

Mike


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#321502 - 02/09/10 01:17 AM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Joren]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Mike,

One of the most freeing things that I was ever taught was as a member of AA. The most important thing I can know about God is that I am not him and either are you.

My relationship with God,higher power or whatever term you care to apply to him is nobodies business but my own. If we each choose to concentration on our own sins and coming to an understanding why we have learned to behave so. We would be too busy to be focusing on others and their minor defects of character. If we would keep our own sides of the street clean we would all be much happier.

I am a believer that Jesus is "MY" lord and savior but I don't feel the need to force this on others who don't see things that way. This is one Christian that rarely sets his foot inside of a church because of the bigotry and hatefulness that I see express towards my fellow brother.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#321748 - 02/10/10 08:33 PM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Dewey2k]
wasfred Offline


Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 4
Loc: Utah
I am most likely agnostic, I suppose I enjoy the ambiguity of that. However, why does morality have to come something or someone? My morality has always been internal, innate. I was rasied mormon (agree with the Utah comment above), but argued "religion" non-stop with my parents from age 12 until I left that religion in my 20's. It took me years to discover that spirituality is not dependent on religion. I am not sure how that plays with being a surviver. I have met men that their religion truly helped them in surviving. I have met men that religion was a terrible hinderance to their survival. I suppose in the end it is what works for each individual no matter where it is found, and we all need to respect spirituality no matter where it comes from--internal or external. Mike, why do you have to justify to anyone where you get your morals? That type of logic upsets me as well. There are plenty immoral "theists" and immoral "atheists", I was abused by both for example. A good person is a good person no matter what they believe. That should be good enough for anyone Mike.

I hope you the best,

KJP


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#321758 - 02/10/10 09:46 PM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: wasfred]
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
Well said KJP. Thanks!


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