I'm sick of all the technology today ... really, everything from facebook to my cell phone, cable tv and the internet ... is there no privacy any more? I cannot drive down the street or enter a building without being under some watchful eye, camera or video ... what is happening, that we need all this? Fear, paranoia?

How do I opt out?

Even the news seems hell bent on spreading this junk ... but it would seem to me that Im not the one who is creating this, it looks like some corporation or government that wants this stuff. Why? Power, money, control?

And now I'm scared to death to even use my cell phone anymore. What's to stop someone bent on more power from using anything I say or do against me or my family?

How do I opt out?

Have you ever read the George Orwell book, 1984?
There is no such thing as privacy any more.

OKIE MIKE,

I haven't read that book. But have seen the movie. Is it fact or fiction? Am I nuts?

it is a fiction . But it is comeing more true every day

Unplug brother!
We r living I. Temporary quarters without tv cable or Internet that calms things down-taking a quiet retreat for 2-3 days works wonders

Mountainous Buck,

I wanna "unplug" forever ...

not sure what you meant with "We r living I." ????

2-3 days does not seem long enough ... then it's right back to the insanity ... doesn't make sense to me ...

Get you a couple of hundred acres of mountain land with stream access, a big old Tough Shed, maybe a small windmill or a small generator, maybe an ATV so you can work the land, and just hide-out for a while. Here in Colorado there are lots of pretty remote places where land is fairly inexpensive, try the Spanish Peaks area or west of Kremmling, try to stay away from the big ski resorts. Maybe north of Rifle or somewhere near Somerset, even some of the old mining land near Silverton would be good too.

Let us know when you get tired of the place, there may be a few of us that a little time away would work wonders for.

Mark

Trucker51,

Does 85 remote acres in Northern Arizona count? Also have way more than what you have listed up there. Kinda my safe place. But with all the snow and more coming, it's blocked in right now.

If you have some access to water and power, 85 acres in northern Arizona should be a fine place to getaway. Do you have a snowmobile??? Five feet of snow is an awful lot for a 4WD pickup to get through even on a sunny day.

Maybe there would be something a little closer for these times when you can't get to your place up north???

Water is on a well with a pumpjack. Power from solar, genny's when needed. No snowmobile. And the place is so remote it requires 4wd even during the summer. And we've had almost 8 feet of snow in the last month, another storms rolling in now.

Would love to head out, but our state has closed dozens of lakes and parks permanently. So my escape points are very, very limited ...

Maybe drive down to Bisbee, see the big hole in the ground right in the middle of town??? It is kind of an out of the way place. Maybe drive up Mt Lemmon, or head over to eastern Arizona, it isn't that crowded over there either, nor is western New Mexico between I-10 and I-40 either. Heck, Las Vegas is getting to be a pretty uncrowded place these days too!!! I like the Suncoast Hotel, way out on the west side in Summerlin, I've been going there for the last 8 years to getaway. While you are there head up onto Mt Charleston, it isn't very crowded either.

Maybe head over to California and try the road to Twentynine Palms, that road isn't very crowded either. Or take old US 66 over Sitgreaves Pass and down through Oatman, then cross the river and take US 95 up to Searchlight, Nevada, where there is a little casino and not much else. There are plenty of places off the beaten track all around Arizona and the surrounding States, just have to know where to look for them.

Mark

Mark, you are livin' up to your Trucker51 moniker ...

Been there, done that, day late, and a Dollar short!!!

I heard that!!!

reminded me of smoky and the bandit ... LOL

I think about the whole technology thing quite a bit. I like to think I understand it pretty good and know the history well enough to understand its place in time. Heck, I was just at the computer history museum two weekends ago and the hour tour I took of a certain part of the collection went over the early days, stuff I knew a little about but this was informative and learned more details. Truth is, electronic computing is really only less than 65 years old if you take when the ENIAC was publicly displayed for the first time in 1946. That really isn't that long ago. I started using computers in elementary school in the very early 1980s if not even a little in the late 1970s. Heck, that would mean I have been using computers since about half there existence and most of my life. I was sort of a nerd in the 1980s, at least I enjoyed computers and was fascinated by what they could do. I also watched the whole tech boom in the 1990s happen, and if I hadn't been so blown out and depressed and lost those years I might have gotten involved. I would have been perfectly poised timing wise, but hey life is what it is and those were some *very* tough years for me.

So I have given the whole tech thing lots of thought. And although my current job (and I am very grateful for the opportunity it gave me) is tied into a tech company, I have some reservations about technology. First off, all these companies that are pushing this stuff are motivated by profit. Plain and simple. They need you, I and the rest to consume this stuff so that they can sell more and keep stocks high and profits coming in. In the case of where I work we make networking equipment. High end crap actually used to pass through lots of data. You know what all the network vendors want? They want you, I and all the rest to get our iphones, android phones and that "next big thing" that comes along phone (Steve Jobs would tell you to just get an ipad; "greatest thing we ever came up with" - okay salesman!) and consume the h*** out of bandwidth via video. Video is a huge bandwidth hog. So for the sake of the profit motive we can all become soulless drones watching our MTV and other mindless s*** on our little screens wherever the heck it is we are at, not participating in life that is right then and there in the here and now, but just amusing ourselves to death with brain rot. But that is what will drive network bandwidth consumption, which sells equipment, which keep wall street happy, and in turn continues the vicious cycle of narcissism the human race has been on and seem to continue to be on and honestly I don't know where it ends.

Okay, that all said I like a little tech. I enjoy being able to write this. I enjoy word processors. I enjoy other things related to tech, to a degree. I just have to learn for myself what it actually is good for and enhances my life and where it is a substitute for life. Some people think tech is the end all of everything and I personally don't think they all get it (well, they get it as long as they get their ilife they want so bad.) Actually, one of my grand goals is to fight back against this stuff, not so much in pure rejection but in using it in a really cool matter. Most people who are into tech these days would have called someone like me a nerd in the 1980s, and now they can't get enough of their iphones and facebook and twitter. Truth is, all these web apps are new and anything is possible, so the lemmings get excited. It is all just some glue language on top of a database. Nothing special. It is the crowd effect at work. Some other next "big thing" will come along. Maybe the next big thing will be people realizing what this stuff actually is and can see their actual place in things, not continuing to be actors in some online narcissistic drama that the internet has in many ways become. All recorded in various databases of course. Now what if we joined life and made life better instead of being narcissists? Nah, american idol would allow it to happen!! That said, this stuff allows for some cool tools and I'd argue MS is an example. There are a few niche tools I'd like to create that I think will benefit people, but I need to put my time in to do so.

Sorry, rant galore. I bet you were not expecting that one Frog!! But yeah, I hear your concern. By the way, add +1 letter higher to each letter in HAL (computer in 2001) and what three letter combo do you get? Hint - "Let's build a smarter planet" (at the benefit to their profit motive of course.) Okay, I'm out of here...

ericc,

IBM, WTF? They were also involved in the Nazi numbering system ... UGH I hate technology and the warmongering control freaks who use this system to control the masses who are unaware ...

ericc,

I attended military schools growing up, stepdad was a marine. We had all the latest computer stuff way before public sector. I learned BASIC programing on an Apple IIc and IIe ... Worked in the tech sector for a majority of my adult life. I am quite "knowledgeable" when it comes to tech... so much so that folks call/text/email me for help ... but in the past few years I have found some of the statements coming out of the mouths of CEO's and govt folks to be quite disturbing ... the only other time I have even heard or read of these things was from EVIL leaders bent on population culling or control ...

there have been some MAJOR security breeches in the tech sector in the past several years the MSM barely blinked an eye at ... and that is truly scary, as the breeches released tons of US citizens data to various govt agencies across the US, UK and China ...

I hate to break it to you, but the masses are socialized sheep that will buy into whatever they are sold as long as it feeds their ego needs. Just look at the ridiculousness of pop-culture and how people behave and act. Sure technology is part to blame, but you can't help fault people for being stupid self-absorbed clueless idiots. Problems is, the idiot masses have the power of numbers on their side. At least this is one way to look at things, but some could (and rightfully so I suppose) argue this is just a negative mindset that doesn't help to have. It is a tricky fine line to walk, where you try and call out what you think you might see but you don't want to become absorbed in negativity also.

As far as tech goes, one just needs to learn where the off button is and not be afraid to use is sometimes. I think a lot of people are slowly immersing themselves in tech to avoid some of life's realities. I'm not saying this is always the case, because there are good uses of tech and certainly we are all using tech to share here and that is positive. But I wonder sometimes, and I have thought lots and lots about this stuff. Truthfully, tech doesn't scare me so much as people scare me. There is a lot of cluelessness out there, and many of the clueless are adamant in controlling and shaping perception with things like technology. But that isn't necessarily techs fault, but the fault of the masses for allowing such a thing. But the masses will continue to consume whatever the producers will produce, and the producers will keep producing whatever consumables they can sucker the masses into consuming. Okay, end of rant two

I wanted to add that I don't always think like this but sometimes I do. I know I have to be careful with the "internalized rants" I have inside because they can lead down a slippery slope. All I know is I can only control myself and I need to control what tech I engage in and for that matter what media I allow my self to be exposed to. Unfortunately it can be hard to avoid many things given how prevalent so much is. Work in progress.

ericc,

I agree, blind sheep headed to the slaughter. I am guilty as well sometimes... I run MacBookPro, have an Android phone and tons of other tech here in the house. It was googles latest security breech that set me off. The new Android phones default security settings are set to call and sync the mothership the minute the phone is setup ... so all user data is auto dumped to their servers ... everything in my phone was sent to them, and I am quite pissed off, as they did not provide any docs with the phone and their setup tutorials were nonexistent when I bought the phone. And there is NO WAY to change the defaults unless you first setup an account with them, thus forcing data dump after it's already too late ...

ericc,

"internalized rants" - yup, got enough rolling around in my noggin' to fill the library of congress ...

Yeah, and just to be clear, I'm no better (I realize my ranting sounds like I am on my high-horse and have it all figured out but honestly I in no way do; these are just things I think about at times.)

As far as the data dump, I can see that as frustrating. There is lots of information out there in regards to each and every one of us. I try and not think too much about it other than know I try and avoid adding more to it all when I can. One of my goals is to be more in control of my data and personal computing experience. Thing is, it can get very complicated because we have reached a tipping point in many ways in regards to speed, size and cost. Things now are fast, small and cheap in a way never before. It leads to that notion that we can pretty much do whatever we want with this stuff (it is all possible) but do we really want to? Some do and some don't. And I don't have all the answers. But in the end as much as I think I know about this stuff, I need the physical world more than anything. I just think a lot of people are falling for this stuff and are losing their proper sense of place in the bigger scheme of things. Of course, given the fact that I have been pretty alienated on a lot of levels for many years maybe I am jealous that now things have reached this stage I really don't have the social capital to fully participate. Nah, I'll take the real world sans the silicon bit churners if it is between one or the other. But maybe I can find a way to use a little tech constructively for good purpose and not worry about what I might be missing out on. I'm not as concerned with fitting in like I once was in the past anyway. Sure, I am a little, but not really that much.

** Actually, if I am completely honest I do want to fit in, yet on some level I don't. It is confusing. This goes back to my past for sure wanting to fit in. I really just want to be able to be myself and mostly keep my personal reality to good people though I often feel I don't deserve that. Hmm... **

ericc,

I think what get's me so irked is that I am very, very careful about what I release, what I share and with whom ... I am a very private person ... I protect my family, friends and contacts like it's GOLD. And to have a piece of tech that violated that security without my consent is just plain unacceptable to me.

I use several different emails/proxy servers on various servers all over the net ... depending on the forum or social networking site I want to participate in ... and for good reason .... I've had data stolen before and used for financial gain of the thieves ... never again ...

I think this last violation with tech from an elite company was the straw that broke it for me ... with reports from google, youtube, yahoo all having involvement with some various govt group either CIA/NSA/FBI, plus hackers and the company itself selling my data to the highest bidder, I refuse to feed this beast any longer ... without the herds the predator will die of hunger ...

don't get me started with MySpace nonexistent security, and now Facebook changed formats and UNLOCKED privacy settings for ALL their users, which left accounts open until user changed security settings ...

I find it suspect that Google releases Android phones then months later gets hacked by china blackhats? Really? C'mon ... Default settings in Android are set to NO security for data harvesting... not to mention the Bluetooth is ON from the get go, so is GPS ... this is the worst tech since the iPhone ...

/end rant

Dang, you obviously know what you are talking about and the specific breaches that are of concern. There is the whole "cloud computing" thing and actually I was just reading a magazine article asking the question as to how safe this really is. I think there is always the possibility of security breaches and data theft. I don't think anything can be guaranteed one-hundred percent secure.

My ranting got a little sociological and outside the scope of data getting into the wrong hands. I just wonder sometimes what this will all lead to. I don't know and I can't say it will be good or bad. But honestly I fear it sometimes. What I fear most is people and the fact that we have so many ways to says things these days but I am scared from the perspective of the bigger picture we don't really communicate. Shout at each other, yes. An even bigger worry is that all these fears come out as projections of my own past. But truthfully there is probably a little of each and I need to try and not worry too much about it.

Anyway, you got me on a roll and right or wrong I had to say what I had to say. Yes, there is a lot of data out there and these things can happen. And obviously having your phone "phone home" data is not what you want. I do fear though, given profit motive, where this could all lead. I'd like to stay human (heck, I've lost enough of my humanity with the abuse stuff and past already) and given I'm a bit attached to nostalgia I don't really know how much of this stuff I really need. A little, just not all of it.

We have a different beast in the UK, it's the TV Licence. Mine's due at the end of the month, everyone has to pay it on top of their cable/satellite fees by law and whilst they don't sell the data on to companies, TV Licensing makes its own fun by acting like state-sponsored gangsters, with bureaucracy drilling down into pointless degrees (like you can only vary the start and end of the licence if you move house - going off-grid makes no difference, whenever you start paying, your old dates are stuck).

Even if the upside is a lack of ads on BBC channels except for their own stuff, I'm not worried about paying for it, but quit with the Orwellian "You Are On The Database and we know where you live" crap.

Only one UK ISP wants to monitor its users on the web so far, the rest are resisting the soon-to-be-gone Government's aim of trying to harvest every text and email out there under the pretence of anti-terrorism.

Even so I choose to have an account solely for junk mail that gets a mass delete at the end of each year - that's when I voluntarily sign up for it, the recession seems to have killed off the vast majority of spammers to my main account. I'm happy having my location on here for the spiders to see, there are nearly 10 million people in this city so they'll have a fun time trying to find me when I could fake the zip code to show me living on the other side of the street if I wanted.

Facebook I deleted - they can have my real name and 6 photos, I faked my DOB on there and pretty much any other site where I don't consider it necessary that they know. Yes you should have the right to use any kind of online account in your real name without ending up "recorded" but it's not worth the hassle anymore, all of my XP and Vista accounts have the generic "WinUser" for the account/admin names - let the adware bots attach to those, they won't get any money, and I keep my net connections wired - too many hacking opportnities when using wireless, and as my relatives are finding out with onboard wireless network cards, too flaky a signal for the biggest online updates.

So it's a balance, you can go off-grid, but it's work to keep yourself off. Since I bank online and banks have made some minimal effort to make that safer, I'm cool with where I am even after having to change numbers to get rid of a hangup stalker.

ericc,

"...I don't really know how much of this stuff I really need. A little, just not all of it..."

Hence my opening post ... I came to the realization that "I don't NEED any of it."

Frog,

I just see as tools to be use to make life easier. Like driving my car or flying.

ComicBookGuy,

For your TV License issue, have you looked into Free-to-Air technology?

All UK ISP's currently monitor and store traffic on their network. It's how the US came to have their prolific monitoring system, it was tested in the UK where the serfs don't have a say so in what their govt/corp do ... don't ask me how I know this ...

IP addresses are matched to your ISP's account you hold/pay ... IP logging is done on most servers here and abroad ... like an earlier post here, we are no longer private on the net: 1984 is here ...

Facebook, now has me and my kids only ... I cut everyone else out ...

wireless is so vulnerable that RIAA and others are finding it hard to get convictions because they cannot prove their targets were behind the terminal ... it happens with connections that are public, like here with "free-wifi" connections offered by big business ... but you will never see "them" in court, only the serfs/common folks ...

it has also come out that cell phones are just as vulnerable to hacks, folks are getting their phones hijacked while out in public. Has to do with default settings in bluetooth and wireless connections. Using scanners, blackhats are using the phones IP to perform other more "prominent" hacks ...

I can get off-grid, but as you say, it's keeping me off-grid that is the challenge. The minute anyone steps inside range of a cell tower or wifi with a cell phone on them, you are vulnerable.

michael banks,

you are right, they are "tools". But it's those same tools that can be used by others to do harm. It's a question I ask, where do I draw the line? Balancing act indeed ....

*edit:
sorry Michael, I addressed you as ericc in my response ...

Agreed Frog, you don't need to pay the licence if you're going to stream a show that's already been broadcast, and there is no radio licence, so theoretically I could throw the TV out - but I like it so I'm not worried by that, or by the fee, just the bureaucracy behind it.

Let the ISPs see the porn that I browsed, it's the 21st century top shelf and the modern update of looking up swear words in Webster's/Oxford dictionaries. We're abuse survivors already, I don't need any further late Victorian British reserve about sex to be added to that as a grown adult, I only have my own hangups to worry about, not those of some politician that I'm going to vote out in three months.

Cellphones - since Nokia cheapened their brand by having a charger port that went dead, and they refused to fix the this fault (which they class as a characteristic) for three years - I'm done with them. Samsung phones are smart, simple, show you the basic info on the front screen, hardly ever unlock in your pocket, and without frills like cameras, cost next to nothing. Because of a merger of two mobile telcos here, unlocked handsets where you just change the SIM have been at their lowest price since cellphones were invented - about 12 bucks. I just won't have an iPhone, I have a desktop computer here, my rellies have laptops. I don't need that computing power in my pocket, I'd rather come home to it and have some degree of control over hacking possibilities.

I was opposed to wireless to the point of getting out of the industry when the time came to retrain in something, thankfully router manufacturers protected their bottom line by letting you disable it and use it as a wired model. Mind you if I was that paranoid I'd be buying Cisco rather than Netgear.

And now I'm scared to death to even use my cell phone anymore. What's to stop someone bent on more power from using anything I say or do against me or my family?

All that I can sy to that is that it only works if you were doing something you thought illicit to begin with. Only Jerry Springer morons don't understand English or context (a much scarier problem to me since its real) wouldn't see that your words were being taken out of context.

IDK what to tell you about cloaking yourself but going off grid seems the only way to stay out of the situation you fear so much. Just remember even your motives in doing that can be brought up to question. ;-]
It isn't a black and white question so I think it best to stay engaged to keep abreast of new developments so as to be better able to protect myself.

kidneythis,

Everything is "illicit", my friend. What I think is acceptable, someone else thinks is bad/evil. Look at religion, politics, porn, weapons, taxes and the list goes on. Since the dawn of man this is how wars and conflicts start and continue.

As for taking our words out of context, this is done everyday by those in politics, corporations and religion to protect/further positions.

As for my fears of the current situation: History repeats. And I have come to recognize the warning signs that were left by those before me.

Why would they want to question my motives for going off grid? If I head off grid, I am no longer a producer, no longer buying their products, thus affecting their bottom line. Am I just a piece of consumer meat to them?

Staying "engaged" is what has brought me to this crossroads. Have you ever wonder why politicians, corporations and ruling elite spend so much time and energy on SECURITY?

You can beleive what you like but the line about everything is illicit is right from the playbook of those you fear. Beleiving that you are less likely to or just plain don't act on what you see is wrong and that is the intent of the idea.

As for those who take things out of context that is what I'm refering to. No one or very few people point it out or act upon it because this false idea that everyone and everything is corrupt has become so pervasive.
That is the intent of those who created the conditions to make this seem to be the fact. There has been a concerted effort to cripple and hamstring every single government agency to create exactly this false image. It is being done by the wealthy to keep the working people in our place making them more money.
Government is not incompetent at birth, it is made incompetent by those who design or redesign it. Our governemnt used to be much better at its job and more generally People/Citizen oriented. Everywhere there is incompetence you will find the source being a bad design or redesign in procedure done by those who would prefer the agency not exist to begin with. This extends to the destruction of our education system.
As for going off grid;
Generally those who want to hide have a reason. That reason is usually because they have done something wrong.
Some like myself would prefer that certain family and ex frenemies not find them and others are just loners or idealists seeking a new way to live. Like what's his name on Walden Pond.
But most often it is those who would flout the law that want to stay outside the system.
The idea of what you are talking about doing plays right into the hands of those you speak of. If you do not engage and work to change they win automatically. Political power has an ebb and flow to it good will not always be ascendent.

You do sound a bit paranoid.
I'm worried too so I'm considering going to the local Community College for a refresher on more recent computer knowledge. Other than that we just have to stand up and fight for what we beleive in, that being the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
It seems we've drifted from the general intent of this forum so I'll let it go now.
I wish you well and I hope you find a place to be happy. I recomend you build a large cistern if you do go out to your Arizona land. Somehow that concept has eluded most desert city dwellers. Water wouldn't be near so problmeatic if people all had one in each home.
It catches and holds the rain in a sealed tank for later use. Its something the Romans used quite a bit. Solar shouldn't be a problem. I think you could live nicely if you can get the right setup.

Good Luck

Since I know I helped drag this one on and went on a bit of a personal rant myself, I wanted to add a couple thoughts after having let this settle a night.

I really don't know what I think about it all other than to say I fear people. I fear what they can do. As far as my data being out there, well it is and they can figure what they may with it all. I know my life and what it has been like and ultimately that is what matters. I do fear though people and what all this power will allow them to create. I guess I just have a different vision of the kind of society I'd like to live in. I suppose that means maybe I should get cracking and work towards what I want. And truth is I can't control the umpteen billions we have on this planet (okay, its not umpteen billions yet, but I do buy into the more people just means more problems philosophy; maybe I'm just one of those types that needs a little more space.)

So basically I don't have any answers other than to say that I like tech stuff a little bit but want to figure out for myself how to use it optimally for good means. I'd rather take a little but use efficiently for maximum potential. And also use the off button once in a while Sometimes I don't.

Eric

okay kidneythis,

"paranoia", the word, was coined to OPPRESS, to create a "stigma". The ruling class understands that the masses have a morality based conscience. They exploit this by all "means" to "justify" their lifestyles ...

Can the FBI Secretly Track Your Cell Phone? The Justice Department is poised this week to publicly defend a little known law enforcement practice that critics say may be the "sleeper" privacy issue of the 21st century: the collection of cell-phone "tracking" records that identify the physical locations where the phones have been. It may come as a surprise to most of the owners of the country's 277 million cell phones, but their cell phone company retains records of where their device has been at all times, either because the phones have tiny GPS devices embedded inside or because each phone call is routed through towers that can be used to pinpoint the phones' location to within areas as small as a few hundred feet. Such location "logs" never show up on your monthly cell phone bill. But federal court records filed over the past year indicate that federal prosecutors and the FBI have increasingly been obtaining such records in the course of criminal investigations...

And "who" is the PARANOID one? Really ...

Can't speak to the FBI, but I know the English police and therefore MI5 and 6/SIS can also track mobile phones even when switched off.

However since that led to the solving of one particular nasty double child murder, I don't really care if they want to know where my phone is - it's not necessarily like I'm going to be in the same place every single time.

The other issue is one of commonsense, yes you dump your cellphone, you're left with the landline...so they always know where you are anyway. But it's part of my healing process to dump off the fear and paranoia I suffered in my teens and 20s which is why I don't care about my London subway travel pass being only partially trackable depending on how much you pay for it.