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#319109 - 01/16/10 03:11 PM Re: Kidnap Survival ***TRIGGERS*** [Re: catfish86]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
*****triggering*****

you know, i never thought much about the impact of this, i've recanted the story so many times, but this is the first time i am processing the feelings around this particular event in my abuse history. i was lured into an vacant conference room in the downtown Y in norfolk when i was stationed there, and then once in, i was trapped there and held captive at knifepoint and forced into ..... well, you get the picture. eventually, he finished with me ..... and then leaving me naked and covered in s**t and blood from being forcibly raped anally, he let me go but not before robbing me. i had to clean myself off with the drapes. i remember being in a daze as i wandered out of the place and tried to find my way to a familiar place where i could take a bus back to the base. that's all i remember ......

just revisiting this and remembering it again is very hard. i can still feel 'me' reacting to the situation.

to know we've all felt this same feeling makes me feel more closely related to all of the people here.

so sad eek shocked cry

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#319111 - 01/16/10 03:29 PM Re: Kidnap Survival ***TRIGGERS*** [Re: Sans Logos]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
(((((Ron)))))

Safe hugs. I did not enter what happened to me as I as an adult but I too was held against my will at gun point and ... well ..

I have alot of compassion for all. Being a csa survivor and a sa survivor and I can understand the "affects". I am sure there is "thinking" and "processing" differences.

We are all survivors and healing together.

Donnie

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#319213 - 01/17/10 08:55 PM Re: Kidnap Survival **TRIGGERS** [Re: kidneythis]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 823
Loc: Ohio
In some ways I am angry that everything was swept under the rug. I don't remember anyone asking me what my uncled had done to us nor any physical exam which would have told everything they needed to know (10 years later, military entrance exam spotted the damage and asked me if I liked boys, etc). The sheriff never pushed the kidnapping angle. But in other ways, at least there is no publicity. People don't recognize me on the street as that kid in the news stories so long ago. There was no news story. I can only imagine what a kid that has experienced publicity over their incident must deal with. Like the Shaun Hornbeck kidnapping, everyone breathlessly wonders if he was sexually abused (a real rocket science issue there). In some ways though from some of the interviews, they (his parents)never really asked him either. Obviously, that did occur. I can talk about this stuff on this site but to have to whispering and comments about how you did or didn't do this or that would be devastating.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#319908 - 01/24/10 04:19 AM Re: Kidnap Survival ***TRIGGERS*** [Re: Sans Logos]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
when I was 19 , i was held captive by a man in his car, he robbed me and he and 2 of his friends raped me. i was drunk, trying to get home before my parents woke . i took a ride with a man who didnt have door handles inside his car. after they finished raping me i was left in the middle of the desert and had to find a way home. This happened in Saudi Arabia and i know i should of been dead. I wanted to tell you that i put myself in danger by hitchhiking . I was drunk and the man saw that i was an easy mark. my shame is that i was so wasted that i couldnt fight back. i made it home and never told a soul till now.i have horible feelings about letting myself get so drunk that i lost my composure and therefore i couldnt take care of myself. nomansanisland

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#320529 - 01/28/10 09:27 PM Re: Kidnap Survival ***TRIGGERS*** [Re: nomansanisland]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 823
Loc: Ohio
I met with my pastor today and shared some of my experiences. One thing I kept going back to is that although I cooperated and cozied up to the sick bastard, it is quite common to have this happen in those that have survived. That is the reason why, by bonding with the perp, it becomes harder for the perp to kill or hurt the victim. I remember reaching that conclusion that resistance could result in pain and death while pleasing him could result in pleasure or at least less pain and maybe survival and even acceptance. What a sick choice.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#320667 - 01/30/10 01:50 AM Re: Kidnap Survival ***TRIGGERS*** [Re: catfish86]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
i dont have a problem with doing what i had to do to keep myself alive. it was all survival. as for being groomed by my abuser, yes , we have to "BOND" with the prep to keep ourselves from being hurt further. Never did i consider his pleasure their pleasure or my own... i will not link doing what i had to do to survive with anyones pleasure. my expierence is specific to my life. i will venture to guess, that whatever your modalities were for your expierence they will be different from mine or someone elses'...

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#322425 - 02/17/10 12:14 PM Re: Kidnap Survival ***TRIGGERS*** [Re: nomansanisland]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 823
Loc: Ohio
One thing I realized this morning is that I did not before, even though it may be obvious was that the whole thing was a thoroughly planned ambush. My uncle invited us weeks before. He knew he was going to pick me and my brother up alone and would have a week before our mother would appear. He wasted no time and was deliberate, looking back on it, in breaking us down. I have sinced learned he is retired Army and had spent time in Korea and Vietnam. While MOST of our soldiers behaved well, many did not and sometimes in a well thought out pattern. I can only imagine what techniques he gathered and how, but from talking to SEARS (Basically a POW survival training for the US Armed Forces) graduates and one guy that participated in writing the curriculum, I know that many of the things he did to us were textbook for breaking POWs for control and information. He isolated us, forced me to betray and participate in killing a cat that had been a comfort to me, sparked fights between me and my brother, forced us to watch each other be raped, humiliated and defiled us, threw in very misplaced sympathy and caring, invoked extreme fear and near death events among other techniques. All of this was aimed at a 10yo boy and a developmentally delayed 8yo boy. Motivated, trained adult men serving their country are broken by these techniques. The guy that participated in writing the curriculum told me a main objective of the course was preparing the survivors to deal with what happened to them and what they would be forced into. What a perverted piece of shit my uncle was.



Edited by catfish86 (02/17/10 12:24 PM)
_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#322491 - 02/17/10 11:45 PM Re: Kidnap Survival ***TRIGGERS*** [Re: Logan]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 823
Loc: Ohio
Thanks for your post. It helps me to understand what was done to me. One of the most traumatic things is I don't believe the speed with which I broke. I think others don't believe that I should have been so cooperative so quickly. By the time my mother arrived in a week I was completely in control. There was a time I actually sought his comfort, crawling into his bed because I was scared. I had to know what would happen and it did. I even felt comforted by it. That thought has led to a very distracted day for me but in a large way it is a huge connection in what I did. After all, I had been turned in two weeks to the point that I would have told on my own mother if I had the means to do so.

Although after reviewing that site I will say that I do not buy the spanking is always abuse line, there is a difference between abuse and appropriate discipline despite differences in method.



Edited by catfish86 (02/18/10 01:00 PM)
_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Top
#322497 - 02/18/10 12:56 AM Re: Kidnap Survival ***TRIGGERS*** [Re: Logan]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
***triggering***

Originally Posted By: catfish86

He wasted no time and was deliberate, looking back on it, in breaking us down. I have sinced learned he is retired Army and had spent time in Korea and Vietnam. While MOST of our soldiers behaved well, many did not and sometimes in a well thought out pattern. I can only imagine what techniques he gathered and how, but from talking to SEARS (Basically a POW survival training for the US Armed Forces) graduates and one guy that participated in writing the curriculum, I know that many of the things he did to us were textbook for breaking POWs for control and information. He isolated us, forced me to betray and participate in killing a cat that had been a comfort to me, sparked fights between me and my brother, forced us to watch each other be raped, humiliated and defiled us, threw in very misplaced sympathy and caring, invoked extreme fear and near death


Originally Posted By: Logan
what you describe has various names, one being, "Coercive Persuasion"
...
It was employed on Korean and Vietnam POW's with with incredible results of that being many of the soldiers defected against their own country within only a few days! At the time, this baffled the Intelligence Community.
...
At the time no one could believe that longtime soldiers could defect in such a small period of time.
...
many of the same methods of mind control used by the Chinese Communists on American POWs during the Korean War. These thought reform techniques, used by the Communist psychologists on captured U.S. soldiers, were of concern to our government because of the speed with which the enemy was able to cause
...
In post-war years, some behavioral scientists here in the U.S. apparently became quite fascinated with what they considered the speed and effectiveness of these methods. For whatever purpose, they took, and refined them into highly sophisticated, powerful tools capable of inducing severe psychological and emotional stress in individuals, often without their knowledge or consent."


I read these statements with great interest because I was also subjected to this kind of treatment during my time of captivity at the scout camp when I was 12-years-old.

pufferfish story part 5 (very triggering)

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...9028#Post219028

My perpetrator must have been a student of military behavior and no doubt had carefully read of the behavior of the Chinese and North Koreans. I believe he was trying out the techniques described by Catfish and Logan on me. Since he was in charge of groups of scouts all summer long, I believe he must have perpetrated this activity on different boys every two weeks during the summer. Because of the similarities between behavior of my perpetrator and that of Catfish, I wonder if he was involved on the "ground level" in some kind of military training passed on to Catfish's perpetrator in the US Army.

The techniques used on me during a 2-week stint involved: I was kidnapped by being taken from bed during sleep and taken to an isolated tent. I experienced sexual degradation before peers and before the perpetrator, I was held captive by being tied to the bed and raped repeatedly. I was kept nude, and tortured by having objects stuck up my rectum. I watched another boy killed by a sexual act. He was deepthroated which lead to asphyxiation. I watched the perpetrator carry him off limp. I was deepthroated the next night resulting in asphyxiation. This procedure (deepthroating resulting in asphyxiation) was probably the psychological equivalent waterboarding. I was subjected to repeated threats (dozens of times each day) with a knife held against my chest. I was told that if I ever "told" I would be found and killed. I was starved and deprived of drink. During the captivity I was brought only one peanut butter sandwich and a coke in a bottle. Then the bottle was then forced up my anus after a sock was stuffed in my mouth. I was released after all other boys and parents had left the camp.

The knots tied in the ropes restraining me were beautifully done, by someone who really knew how to tie knots. My perpetrator was in charge of teaching knot-tying at the boy scout camp. These events took place at Camp Theodore Roosevelt on the Chesepeake Bay. The camp was the summer camp of the National Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America. is no longer used by the boy scouts. I believe the area is now Sandy Point State Park in Maryland.

My T (therapist) whom I was seeing when I remembered these things (I remembered when I was about 45) contacted the Boy Scouts about what I had said in pufferfish story part 5. I also telephone office of the National Area Council of the Boy Scouts in Washington D.C. Their response was that those records were closed and sealed and packed away.

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/publiclands/southern/sandypointmap.html


What was done to me resulted in great psychological damage. My doctor found calcified scar tissue on my anus when I was about 40, before I actually remembered these events. I have seen several different T's. None of them has questioned the truthfulness of my statement.

Allen

pufferfish sick





Edited by pufferfish (02/18/10 12:28 PM)
Edit Reason: Additional material was added and edited for claity of expression

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#322503 - 02/18/10 01:38 AM Re: Kidnap Survival ***TRIGGERS*** [Re: pufferfish]
saphsaph Offline


Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 20
Loc: MA, USA
Originally Posted By: pufferfish
***triggering***

My T whom I was seeing when I remembered these things contacted the Boy Scouts about what I had said in pufferfish story part 5. Their response was that those records were closed and sealed and packed away.

What was done to me resulted in great psychological damage. My doctor found calcified scar tissue on my anus when I was about 40, before I actually remembered these events. I have seen several different T's. None of them has questioned the truthfulness of my statement.

Allen

pufferfish sick



Don't mean to insult you by adding any levity to the situation, but I wish there was some sort of site acronym translation thing. x_X

I'm new to talking about what I went through, or getting any help, so maybe that's why I don't know a lot of these words.

So far today I learned csa, gbt, p, per, perp, several others, someone's post was something like, "My fm perp had me in n/c inc csa which led me to pstd"

I stared at that T in your post for 3 minutes. I finally realized you mean therapist! ... ... I think...

I was a scout, and it was a break/freedom from what I suffered from my uncle at home. But with so many people who suffered because of them... My nephew is going to enter soon, but I'm too scared, and I don't know if he should.


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