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#319693 - 01/22/10 08:58 AM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Elad 12]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1288
Loc: kansas
...


Edited by Obi (05/03/13 05:57 PM)
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#319694 - 01/22/10 09:16 AM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Obi]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
the thread went south because the topic had not been properly identified by respondents as being the case of a gay man asking in the gay forum about others who had encountered similar difficulties relative to their non-traditional orientation in the area of religion.

mike was simply asking how others had reconciled their struggles in this realm. he was not looking to start a flame war. this has happened before: men post in the GBT forum looking for support from a non traditional sexually oriented perspective, and all kinds of unrelated posts bomb the topic, derailing the original intent. it can be frustrating.

it is important when people respond to a post, they try to explore the background of the person they are responding to, and reflect prior to posting whether their perspective is going to be helpful, or disconcerting.

learning how to give helpful feedback is a process, and we've all made made mistakes as we learn the 'how to' of support networking. it is just something to be aware of.

just some more thoughts on the topic,

ron

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  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#319742 - 01/22/10 04:47 PM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Sans Logos]
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 148
Loc: Minnesota
Howdy brothers,

Thanks for all of the replies to this thread & subsequent notes. They have been passionate, informative and in the end, trying to help Mike out with a stumbling block on the road to recovery.

I agree w/ Ron's last post that Mike's looking for answers to life (Who isn't?) and we need to focus on that. Towards that end, we all agree w/ and support Mike.

However, certain replies written by other brothers have not only bothered me but made me realize that I should try to clarify my previous post along w/ trying to bring us together on such a divergent topic. To wit:

If you notice from my last post, I NEVER use words like always, only, everytime, all, none or other words that leave no room for exceptions or discussion. Why? Because outside of some Math, there's always exceptions or conditions that disprove a theory.

I.E.
Quote:
Born again Christians don't get it that their beliefs are not the only way to believe or that there are other ways to think and believe about life.

I do think that most posters to this forum consider Christianity the only form of Spirituality which is why maybe there should be 2 different forums, one geared toward Christians and one geared toward everyone else.


If I wanted to, I could go to another thread that I just read w/ even more hurtful, while hopefully unintended, comments about Christianity that demand a response.

Why does it seem okay for anyone, ms.org or elsewhere, to suggest separating Christians from non-Christians? That's really mean, shameful and hurtful on so many levels I will not discuss this here on Mike's post.

If it's okay to pick on, separate and insult Christians here as some have in this very thread, then why not Gays, Jews, Blacks or Buddhists?

Mike, I hope that you are able to heal and either trust religious folks in the future or at least learn to do no harm to them in any form, verbal or otherwise.

Good luck to you and everyone else.

Jay
Defender of many faiths, including his own.

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The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#319801 - 01/23/10 01:58 AM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: westsidej]
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
I apologize. I should have said that "many or most born again Christians......" I was just caught up in the moment. My whole life I have heard the same thing over and over and I guess I have built up a low tolerance level to it. I really don't want this to turn negative so I will apologize to anyone I may have offended. I usually know better then to even peruse this forum.
Sincerely

Dale


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#319808 - 01/23/10 06:37 AM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Elad 12]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1121
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
Dale,

I apologize for reacting too quickly myself. Somehow I read into your post that Christians don't belong in the Spirituality forum, which you did not say. Sorry man.

Jim

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#319822 - 01/23/10 09:45 AM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Jim1961]
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
Jim,

The best part of this experience for me are the PM's you & I are having, so something good has come out of this exchange.

Dale


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#319927 - 01/24/10 11:00 AM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Elad 12]
many_mees Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 286
Guys,
I have to admit that there are many good and valuable points in this thread. Some of them I find offensive and some I find utterly ridiculous, and some I find extremely helpful in working my way through my faith walk; whatever that walk may mean to you.

I have been a "Christian" for 29 years and only now at this time in my life am I beginning to understand my faith and what it has and hasn't done for me. I have found my faith to be both a moral compass and a huge stumbling block as I work through all the damage that sexual, emotional and physical abuse has left for me to clean up.

When I arrived here, I was in turmoil about my sexual preferences and how I could continue to justify my Christian walk and accept who and what I have become. After much reading and learning what it would take to move on, I was able to make that jump to a new level of understanding which freed me to explore other issues that has blocked my recovery from the beginning. I would not have been able to make that leap were it not for the input of you brothers here at MS.

I am learning to be more tolerant of another's faith or lack thereof and less tolerant of those who would slam anyones faith for any reason. It is abhorent that those who espouse tolerance are the first to attack that which they do not or would not understand out of shear ignorance. That kind of intolerance I will stand up against. It has no place in the arena of ideas.

Yes, that sounds intolerant in and of itself, and perhaps it is. But before I or anyone can be judged, others need to get to know why we think the way we do and what it took to get here. Just being mean is not a valid excuse to hurt another person by ridiculing or demonizing their faith walk. Being open to new ideas is by far more productive and less divisive as we work to better ourselves and work through our recovery.

Separating out those who think differently, Christians from non-Christians, smacks of fascism and bigotry. To create another room for two points of view, why not a room for each faith? How many forums does MS need? Certainly not hundreds, otherwise we would lose the meaning of "forum" in an attempt to quell any disagreements due to differing opinions. That is ludicrous.

Suffice to say, we each have differing ways to reach the end goal we came here to work on; our recovery. Lets not cloud this reason with meaningless, irrelevant and irreverent posts over who and what is right or wrong. It serves no purpose but to destroy. Instead, can't we use this place to come to an understanding of our different walks as it pertains to our healing and recovery? Surely we can gleen some value from our brothers that we can use to better our own lives. Can't we?

Thanks for the thread and the willingness to hear and be heard.


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#319952 - 01/24/10 02:57 PM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: many_mees]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
brilliant sam!

it's really that simple: live and let live!

....now getting there....that's a whole nother story whistle

all the best,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#319971 - 01/24/10 04:59 PM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Sans Logos]
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
I have written & deleted several posts today. Bottom line of what comes up in each is that as someone who was abused spiritually as well as sexually as a child....righteousness feels very very abusive

enough said on my part


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#319973 - 01/24/10 05:25 PM Re: Healing and Religion [Re: Elad 12]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Originally Posted By: Elad 12
righteousness feels very very abusive


It is so terrible that even "loving C..." (can't even say the word now for fear of abuse) are hateful.

Dale - I hear your pain.

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