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#317269 - 01/01/10 11:01 AM Forgiveness...
h.beat,h.break Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: New York
I just recently found out that my mother is seeing a therapist for what had happened to me. In an argument we had over an e-mail I sent my perp while he was still in the hospital, she told me that this is like a dark cloud hanging over our family. I didn't reply while she was talking, but I was looking at it more as a truth being revealed after years of lies and deceit.

Anyway, my spirit is telling me to forgive him, but I'm being very hard-hearted in forgiving them especially my oldest brother. He might not have long to live anyway. I'm not sad about that since I have yet to be sad about anything except the ppl I am emotionally close to. That aside, I can't forgive him now because it will not be genuine. My heart won't be in it. IDK. I just want peace for my life is all. Thanks.

_________________________
Hey, if "black sheep" means you're the only non-douche of the family, take that with some pride.

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#317274 - 01/01/10 11:47 AM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: h.beat,h.break]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Originally Posted By: h.beat,h.break
I can't forgive him now because it will not be genuine. My heart won't be in it. IDK. I just want peace for my life is all. Thanks.


Hi, Remy.

I am glad to hear you know yourself enough to be able to say you can't forgive him.

Forgiveness for me means giving myself a break. Forgiveness is for ourself. It is a gift one gives them self. I believe you don't need to forgive him.

Your a powerful source of healing for me.

Keep talking,

DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#317276 - 01/01/10 12:07 PM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: DJsport]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1331
Loc: kansas
.


Edited by Obi (04/29/13 01:39 PM)
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#317305 - 01/01/10 06:02 PM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: Obi]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 821
Loc: Ohio
I am a Christian. Christ forgave my sins. Not that I desrved it, but He did it anyway. I often wonder what I would feel if my perp greeted me in heaven. I do know one thing, its not my heaven and if he is there, I would have to accept it. I know "doctrine" would require that I forgive him. That is very hard in practice, but it is true that bitterness, anger and hatred, even righteous, often burns the one it dwells in the most. When my brother, who often was abusive to me and himself molested a 7yo girl, killed himself, I went to another state, cleaned out his apartment, tracked down his affairs, fronted the money to cremate and bury him and even organized the funeral and spoke a decent eulogy mourning a brother I hated without a hint at my hard feelings. I have never regretted doing that and at times have been glad that I did.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#317326 - 01/01/10 08:35 PM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: h.beat,h.break]
Freeatlast Offline


Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 2
Your last sentence is, "I just want peace for my life, is all." You have taken the first steps toward that peace by bringing the truth out into the open. It sounds like this took place recently. You are taking the power into your hands. Many will tell you that all you have to do is "just forgive". You are right when you say that your heart won't be in it, even though your spirit says you need to. My experience in forgiving with the spirit and heart is that I first needed to bring up my anger and pain and express it to someone I trust. Perhaps that would be a Higher Power if that is part of your spirituality. In another abusive situation I am in I used my morning "power walks" and simply raged and sent the persons to hell. After several months I reached a point where I said, "I am tired of this." I turned to the Higher Power I know and asked for help to "want to forgive." A little later I again told the Higher Power, "I give all of this to you" and I walked away. Going through that when I flashbacked to my being raped and abused I followed the same path. In that I found the peace I wanted and I am free at last I have not forgotten and still flashback and experience the pain from time to time but I know I am more than a survivor and I have done some good things with my life as I tried to prove that I was a good man. My perpetrator died many years ago. I kept the secret for 60 years, but three other boys brought charges against him. He lost his job in the public school but a year later was hired by a parochaial school. My family did not believe the boys because the abuser was such a nice guy. It took time and I had to do it in my time and you will have to do it in your time. The day will come when you know the peace you want with all your being. That will not be the end of the grief, I just joined and when I signed up I cried because I remembered again.


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#318225 - 01/08/10 07:35 PM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: Freeatlast]
Happy Birthday estuardo Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 45
Loc: ohio
I think just the idea that you're even considering forgiveness is a very big step in the right direction. I agree with Obi; forgiving oneself has got to be the first step. I also agree with DJ sport, that forgiveness is a gift to ourselves.

One thing that helps me, and that I have to keep reminding myself is: That Forgiveness has nothing to do with Trusting that person ever again. Being raised Catholic, that goes against their grain, but having to deprogram myself from that has been the layers of 'onion peels' I have to keep pulling back.

If it helps, just from what I'm hearing you say, it seems you are more genuine about forgiving, than you give yourself credit for, and that you are probably more forgiving than you think you're being.

Hope it helps, and encourages.

Peace,
estuardo

_________________________
"I'm entitled to my opinion...even if it's wrong."

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#318235 - 01/08/10 09:07 PM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: estuardo]
many_mees Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 286
Remy
Forgiveness is a very personal thing, both when we ask for it and when we grant it. You are considering a difficult task but one that rewards beyond the act itself.

Perhaps a good beginning would be to humble yourself and ask for forgiveness from God or that higher power you perceive as all knowing, almighty, present everywhere. Once you have received that forgiveness, it will be possible for you to give it.

Just a thought as you work through this awesome task.

Yours always,


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#318273 - 01/09/10 04:09 AM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: many_mees]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Remy,

Decide what is right for you...period.


sono

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#318324 - 01/09/10 02:16 PM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: sono]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 03:48 PM)

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#318367 - 01/09/10 10:11 PM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: jbh8]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Hey Remy,
I have enjoyed chatting with you in The Lounge, I think you are a good person. Because this is a post about forgiveness, and this is the forum on spirituality, I would speak to this as this is my area of expertise. Well as much of an expert as anyone...really.
We search for forgiveness, from others and for ourselves, because we are made in God's image. John 3:16 tells us He loved us so much, He gave Jesus to forgive us, the wrath of God being removed from us.
When we were created, God gave us a perfect balance of forgiveness, but when the first humans sinned, we lost that balance. Romans 5:12 tells us that through the sin of Adam, all are sinners. So now we do not have that perfect balance, but we still seek to forgive, why, because it has been installed in us, our original programming, so to speak.
That, Remy, is why you desire to forgive your abuser. That is also why we are not very good at forgiving. You wish to do the right thing, but we are fragmented.
There is much more to discuss, but let us take it slowly.
Almighty God allows us to forgive or not as we choose, and when you are ready, you will do as you need to. Any way you choose, you are welcome here, I consider you a friend, and I am content to interact with you, to encourage and be encouraged.
Sam

_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#318440 - 01/10/10 06:36 PM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: SamV]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
Hi, my fraternal brothers.

Being we are talking about forgiveness, i'll once again post this. it is also in 2 other forums. But just maybe this will be of a help to someone.

Well, today (27 Dec.) at Mass, and being it is the Feast of The Holy Family. Little Pete & big Pete,after considerable soul searching, on this day, and in God's house, and in HIS presence, said the following...........
My Heavenally Father & Mother, from the depths of litle Pete & big Pete's soul WE hereby, in YOUR presence, FORGIVE, our "mom", for the sexual, physical, emotional & mental abuse committed against us.

To, Ralph, the "mom" & "dad", that little Pete had loved for over 55 years, as WE thought that he loved us too, little Pete & big Pete, FORGAVE him for the sexual, emotional & mental abuse against us. In God's house & presence.

To, those strangers, whom worked for the Boston subway system, whom little Pete went with, because he thought they loved us too. We FORGIVE them, for their sexual, emotional & mental abuse against us, in God's house & presence.

Little Pete & big Pete had tears streaking down both cheeks, in God's house & in God's presence.

Rusty tears, that were buried in our very soul for 55 years.

As each day passes little Pete is growing up to become a man, step by step, ever so slowly...in God's presence.

I am 70 years old. but in the Lords prayer it says "forgive us our trespassers as we forgive those who trespass against us".
I never really paid attention to those words...unitl now.

" I will take that lost boys hand, and i will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunlight, forever into eternity."

Heal well my fraternal brothers, heal well.

Little Pete & big Pete..but 1 (Irishmoose).





Edited by petercorbett (01/10/10 06:36 PM)
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#318824 - 01/13/10 11:17 PM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: petercorbett]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1962
"once i was able to forgive myself it was MUCH easier to forgive others."

This whole thread has been a good read for me, but I can really relate to the above. I can't forgive myself for so much even though I have worked on sharing the deepest secrets of my life and know none of the bad stuff I would have ever wanted. My T has often asked if I am waiting to be punished and want to be punished. It goes so far back. I have been living a hard life in many ways (okay, certainly many have lived harder but I have had my moments) as a means of punishing myself it seems at times. This is emotionally stirring and makes me think of so much and ask myself how did I get to today. The journey continues.

And Remy, I think the question of forgiveness has to be up to you and on your timetable. Has your brother(s) ever taken any personal responsibility for his actions? I suppose it would be hard to forgive when that is not the case, though even if that is the case it is still up to you.

Eric


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#318969 - 01/15/10 09:45 AM Re: Forgiveness... [Re: ericc]
h.beat,h.break Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: New York
My perp, whom my family calls 'my brother', isn't asking for forgiveness, i realize. they are asking me to excuse the piece of $#!+. no healthy mind can totally forget a wound that leaves ugly scars and forgiveness is not excusing the wrongedoer.

i think i'm gonna remember this for a looong time. forgiving him now is like asking me to climb mount everest w/out a guide. i'm not strong enough yet to forgive him and honestly, i don't know if i want to be. i want to stay in rage at him and not have anything to do w/ him... idk. jbh8 said if i'm not going to benefit from telling him i forgive him then what's the point? if i forgave him now, i would get nothing bc i'd still in rage at him. i wouldn't love him and i'd still want him to suffer. idk. it's a process, forgiveness would be. like recovery. this $#!+ is just piling on.

as for my perp, i believe he will show no signs of responsibility for what "he allegedly did" (my mother says). it's no point in going into the psychological effects his teasing had on me, but i guess that was compounded by what he made me do as a child. what i was used to at age 6.

and also, maybe i'm missing this, but i see no need to forgive myself of anything. i did nothing wrong. i am the victim. i did nothing wrong as a child. this is exasperating, but thank you everyone for your responses to such an outrageous idea.

_________________________
Hey, if "black sheep" means you're the only non-douche of the family, take that with some pride.

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