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#315083 - 12/18/09 02:37 PM If bi's not an option, then what do I do?
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Minnesota
Greetings my brothers.

How's everyone doing? I just had a great meeting with my male sexual abuse survivor meeting here in the Twin Cities where I met two others from ms.org. In addition, I had a tough but rewarding session with my therapist as well today.

One question that these forums, my survivor group and therapy session has brought up is regarding my sexuality.

Since I am married and love being hetero, does anyone have some suggestions when I have bi-thoughts that are so strong, they not only impede my heterosexuality but give me a nearly unstoppable desire for some homosexual activity? I'm not totally sure if I really want to have a bi-experience or if it's just the raging sexual imagery that comes up when I talk about my sexual abuse. I sense maybe a little of both.

I've tried looking at pictures, fantasizing and even thinking back to my CSA, which sucks btw and isn't productive.

Thank you for the tips. No, my wife doesn't know fully about my desires nor is ready at the moment, so far as I know, to allow another man into our bedroom though he would have to be bi as well.

Have a great weekend.




Edited by westsidej (12/18/09 03:42 PM)
_________________________
My CSA story TRIGGERS!!!!

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#315480 - 12/21/09 07:36 AM Re: If bi's not an option, then what do I do? [Re: westsidej]
expom Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Australia
Hi there Westside,
If I may be so bold as to tell of some steps of my recovery journey. . . .

I worked out a few years ago that I had greater struggles with the desire to act out when (A) I was really stressed - especially with relationship difficulties with my wife (B)I had been processing some difficult CSA issues - especially related to memories and (C) Spending toooooooo long in isolation mode where I avoided all meaningful contact.

As I wanted to remain married (still do, still am after 28 years) I knew that I had to put something in place to keep me safe and not go right off the edge. Instead of rushing out and giving in to the drivenness of acting out, I slowly put in place some delaying tactics "OK, I feel like this now - I always feel like shyte after acting out so I'm going to wait a few days and if I still feel like it by [whenever] then off I'll go"
That made it far easier for me to avoid doing what something inside seemed to be impelling me to do. Especially as I have always - and will always - describe myself as hetero.

Then, a few months ago, I read somewhere about what it is that acting out - especially ss acting out if the csa was perpetrated by a male - is all about. It was explained that the only difference between sex and rape is consent.

One of the defense mechanisms that we seem to try and erect is that of attempting to minimise the previous trauma by placing a retrospective overlay of consent onto the csa. In other words, we try to make the pain of dealing with the effects of csa less by trying to convince ourselves that it was OK because if I was older I could have / would have / should have given consent.

This concept worked for me - I reckon that's what I was trying to do. And since i had found out about it being a self defence strategy, it has become easier for me to switch that self defence mechanism for others, like delaying.

Doing this has meant that i have now gone over 28 months since any form of remotely risky behaviour.

On a separate issue - by far my biggest regret in life is telling my wife that I had been unfaithful to her. That look of pain in her eyes haunts me still - and it has taken years to regain the trust.

These are my thoughts - I'd like it if you could let me know if they fit your experience

ADen

_________________________
I endured all my yesterdays. I prevail in all of my todays. I exercise my right to be able to enjoy my tomorrows. I choose not to do it alone.

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#315515 - 12/21/09 12:21 PM Re: If bi's not an option, then what do I do? [Re: expom]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 860
Loc: washington
Westside,

My own personal spin...

Going through this...I have always thought a man would be an ideal balance to my situation...

Anywho...I am the only one here that feels this way...(and in my heart of hearts with std's and all)...I am also suspect in feeling this way.

Your CSA sucked and so did mine (I struggle with this one all the time and don't really have an answer to that)...but I have found a partner that fulfills some of those nearly unstoppable desires...

I feel there are several different personal healthy paths...This one...though rarely talked about about here...seems really not all that unique.


Once Bitten Twice Shy (Great White)

island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#315523 - 12/21/09 01:37 PM Re: If bi's not an option, then what do I do? [Re: 1islandboy]
TIN Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 10
Loc: Frederick MD
I have to agree with expom... I too have used this delay tatic. Is really worth giving up for a few moments.

I have been with my wife for 20 years. The challanges always become when my life manages to be in state of change or chaos that the feelings and the issues become much stronger. This is the hardest time.

I too agree my greatest regret was being unfaithful. Occured early in our marriage, got through it, but I fell off again about 5 years ago...she is sticking by me, but the pain in her eyes can not be forgoten....trust takes a long time to be re-earned...!

At the end of the day, it just isnt worth giving into an impulse.


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#317170 - 12/31/09 03:19 PM Re: If bi's not an option, then what do I do? [Re: TIN]
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Minnesota
Hi Tin, 1islandboy & expom,

Thank you for the replies. I just had a great therapy session and something has changed inside of me.

I knew this before in pieces but now realize entirely that part of my desire to be sexual w/ a man, besides the CSA, stems from the fact of how much easier it is than w/ women or especially a spouse.

There's nowhere near as much hassle in finding a guy for sex as it is with women, hookers notwithstanding. They're only a craigslist ad, or in some cities, a bathroom hole away. Guys know how to make another guy feel good and where to touch, especially experienced Gay men. My wife still has a hard time pleasuring me.

It takes much more effort to have a strong sex life in an LTR w/ a woman after the New Relationship Energy wears off.

Besides looking at porn, I knew that something was up when I would fight w/ my wife and then think about guys. It all makes sense now.

Already, I feel my desire for a guy diminishing and feel confident that I am going to be able to let the feelings just exist w/out ever acting on them after my last therapy session.

I'm okay w/ the fact that I have had many sexual encounters with men, they will always be a source of arousal for me due to my CSA and that it's something I am ready to leave where it belongs, in the past.

I no longer consider myself bi-sexual, just someone who is a CSA survivor who was confused by the experiences for decades.

Altas just shrugged for me.

Take care and have a very happy New Year and healthy 2010.

Jay

_________________________
My CSA story TRIGGERS!!!!

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#317175 - 12/31/09 04:04 PM Re: If bi's not an option, then what do I do? [Re: westsidej]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Originally Posted By: westsidej

There's nowhere near as much hassle in finding a guy for sex as it is with women, hookers notwithstanding. They're only a craigslist ad, or in some cities, a bathroom hole away. Guys know how to make another guy feel good and where to touch, especially experienced Gay men. My wife still has a hard time pleasuring me.


I am happy for you J about you finding resolution for your sexuality.

I am a gay man who like you is a survivor and I once was the experienced gay man you speak of above that was on the other side of the hole in the wall. I am so glad to hear this so clearly written.

Our sexuality is our own. Even my male partner is NOT responsible for my pleasure - it is an added feature so to speak or a huge loving connection between people who are in love. This is a grandiose idea but one I hear is the true meaning of a "Sexual" marriage.

I am needing to take deep breaths as this is a huge revelation and the best at providing an "ah huh" moment. I always wondered about the guy on the another side of the wall. I can now let go of more of the shame because I realize I was not a failure for the other guy not being interested in me as a person. He only wanted to get off and get out. Two characters who paths crossed for two totally different purposes with one being ... I hope your wife never sees these words. This gives me pause .....

Have a Happy New Year with your family,

Donnie



Edited by DJsport (12/31/09 05:46 PM)
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Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#317577 - 01/04/10 10:35 AM Re: If bi's not an option, then what do I do? [Re: DJsport]
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Minnesota
Hi Donnie & happy New Year,

Thank you for the note and encouraging words. I still have a long way to go on my path to recovery but I feel really good about finally coming to terms w/ the fact that men turn me on and always will due to my CSA just as much as women do.

That's taken many decades of shame, guilt and lost years to not just accept but be at peace with.

However, if my wife said it was okay to have a bi-encounter once in a while or invite a guy to join us, I don't know what I would say right now. It's so confusing but I think that sometimes I would say no and other times, yes.

The main point being that I am okay w/ either response on my part, something that I couldn't have said even a few months ago.

_________________________
My CSA story TRIGGERS!!!!

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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#317579 - 01/04/10 11:15 AM Re: If bi's not an option, then what do I do? [Re: westsidej]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
j, i'm am going to go ahead and ask something here, and i am only asking because after reading your posts, it don't think this question will threaten your sense of orientation/manhood. this is not to challenge what you believe, but to help me, and perhaps others, to understand.

here goes:

you said:
Quote:
I feel really good about finally coming to terms w/ the fact that men turn me on and always will due to my CSA just as much as women do


my question is this: if you believe your attraction to males to have arisen out of your CSA experiences, then how do you explain your attraction to women, if you had not had prior sexual experiences with them?

the reason i ask is because so many guys think their same sex attraction to be due having been abused, and i am not saying that is not the case. but where does opposite attraction come from?

the reason i raise this question is because i fear the answer sitting between the ears of many people is this: that heterosexuality is natural, and therefore it got derailed somehow. what if this is not the case at all, and we are all born as sexual beings with no definitive criteria for establishing predisposition to one orientation or another. or that one person is perhaps more naturally oriented more towards one end of the spectrum or the the other. and attraction to both is natural for one person and perhaps not for another? what if everything is just what it is, and the idea that expressions of homosexuality as being 'disordered' has been ingrained in us by folks who have the power to legislate such dualist thinking?

why do we look at our homosexual orientation or attraction as a flawed state?

thanks for considering my question,

your recovery pal,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#317606 - 01/04/10 03:43 PM Re: If bi's not an option, then what do I do? [Re: Sans Logos]
westsidej Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/04/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Minnesota
Ron,

Hi. Thank you for the post. I will answer you off-line not because I am ashamed or feel guilty but due to possible triggers for others.

However, I will admit here that I am not only okay w/ being turned on by men but take great pride in the fact I can pleasure either men or women orally, which is a rare skill indeed.

J

_________________________
My CSA story TRIGGERS!!!!

The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Top
#317668 - 01/05/10 08:01 AM Re: If bi's not an option, then what do I do? [Re: westsidej]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
thanks so much for the candid and non-shaming response!

i always wondered why people would say their desire for intimacy with men was a result of csa, but not that their desire for intimacy with women was a result of early childhood experimentation with females. i guess raising such a question in the first place exhibits a belief that there is something 'wrong' with homosexuality, and not with heterosexuality. i'm not sure why people have to assign blame for one; heterosexuality is championed in many people's minds as the state par excellence for any male's aspiration. most likely, this is because of internalized homophobia, due to castigation of homosexuals by right wing ideologies in both the religious and political realm, fleecing the culture with their brand of righteous living. though not so much now these days....this is waning, but for many of the guys who grew up in less tolerant decades when such beliefs became enshrined in moral legislature, we still bear the results of such imprinting, and spend a lot of time untying those k[not]s.

i had a few early female experiences, and i have to say i find breasts fascinating, but beyond that,i supposed that if i had to assign a percentage value to my own orientation scale, i would be 10% hetero and 90% homo. i just don't look at women and say, boy i wonder what it would be like to get naked with her? but i do that with men a lot, however.

i hope people continue to post so affirmatively about their bisexuality. i'm not sure exactly why some guys find non-shaming discussion of bisexuality so threatening. but at any rate, if they don't see healthy and affirming discussions taking place on the public discussion boards, they may never be open to debunking the long held myths around the topic of sexuality.

and isn't this why this organization is here for us? overcoming the sexual victimization of men and boys? not merely the experiences themselves, but what their legacy has instilled in our minds about the nature of sexual acts as being shameful. this organization offers us a place of neutrality where we can learn instead to celebrate the sexual dimension as the beautiful gift of joy that it is.

thanks again for the topic smile

all the best,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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