I simply want to be heard and not have my experiences -be they tough for others to hear - discounted.

The reference to them "being gay" is not cool for me. I am gay and I never use the word even to other gay men. My perp and others in my life used the word FAGGOT in a mean way NOT because they were gay.

I have to be clear they are two different things. I have to separate them to be able to deal with them. Crossing the lines for me is more hurtful.

My feelings and my opinion and my way for dealing with this message.

I hear you WG.

DJ

Hi DJ, I'm sorry to intrude. I agree that the word should be discontinued, as should ni--er, sp-c, m-ck, k-ke, etc. But making light of it is one way to minimize its impact. I don't know if it quite works in terms of society as a whole. But I think Westchester Guy is really just trying to make the word lose its meaning for him, so it can no longer hurt him. He's using humor as a defense mechanism.

I think basically you both see eye to eye. I also think openly gay men DON'T usually use the word "faggot" in a bad way, because they don't hate themselves for their desires. They don't need to lash out at people who are secretly the same as they are.

It's the tormented closet cases who are homophobic. Why on earth would anyone else care? Sorry if I'm butting in. I just think your argument is based on misunderstandings, and not any significant differences in opinion. Just trying to keep the peace.

Hey Donnie you described my childhood/adolescent years.

I hated all the mean things people said to me.

I know I'm a good guy and why people get off on being mean.

My Dad has a theory, that they are just so lonely, confused, desperate, insecure, that for in order of them to feel good about others they have to get off trying to push people's buttons and say mean and hurtful things.

I will say this in some ways life is getting better for me and the mean and hurtful things have tamed down a bit, not completely gone but still a few, one thing though is I will either defend myself or hold my tongue, ignore it or walk away.

Another thing that my Dad says which I find true about college, is that it tends to ween out some of those mean jerks.

Great topic.

Glad I could be a part and share with you all. Thanks guys.

Charlie.

NO minimizing its impact - it sucks - it hurts like hell.

And if saying they are gay is the way to minimize it then that is just wrong in my opinion. And it is wrong because since I am gay then the putting in on gay men hurts worse.

Deal with it however u deal with it but - not saying more - dont want to imply anything -

Please forgive me I am in the earlier stages of recovery and this shits still hurts. So diminishing it in anyway when I have not dealt with it and just comfortable with talking about it.

I dont mean any harm and am not nasty - just saying what is on my heart. Please dont take offense.

DJ

i was born in 1953, and i have lived the evolution of the GLBTQ struggle so i disagree that the efforts of these organizations have made no difference. i agree that the word has not changed its meaning, but i don't believe that it has the same power except in the mind of certain conglomerates of ignorant people [smaller percentage now in 2009 than in 1980]

PFLAG is directly responsible for raising awareness about violence against GLBTQ people, and creating legisation that protect our rights. jeanne manford, the mother of PFLAG and judy shephard the mother of matthew shephard have done much to advance protections of the rights of gay 'children'. their grassroots efforts have resulted in the passage of legislations which provide foundations for recourse in situations where people are met with discriminatory violence.

from the PFLAG website:


The passage of the hate crimes bill came on the heels of several other key gains this week [October 23, 2009]:

* A Family Victory!On Thursday, October 15, Rep. Pete Stark (D-Calif.) introduced H.R. 3827, the Every Child Deserves a Family Act, which would restrict federal funds for states that discriminate in adoption or foster programs on the basis of marital status, sexual orientation, or gender identity. Currently, at least five states specifically prohibit LGBT people from adopting children. The passage of this law would help our LGBT friends open up their homes to children who desperately need families to call their own.

The latest available research shows more than 500,000 children are currently part of the foster care system, with only 3 percent placed in pre-adoptive homes. The bill introduced by Stark is intended to eliminate barriers to adoption, as studies indicate that foster children are more likely to commit crimes, more likely to experience homelessness and less likely to be able to hold jobs as young adults. The bill will help strengthen families and create a more opportunities for young people to grow into happy and productive adults.

* A Health Victory! On Wednesday, October 21, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius announced plans to create the first national resource center for LGBT senior citizens (over age 60), a group estimated as high as 4 million. The LGBT Resource Center will not only help existing agencies build competency and cultural sensitivity in serving this growing community, but also will expand awareness among LGBT individuals about the need to plan for later life and long-term care. The Administration on Aging plans to award a grant of $250,000 each year to eligible entities, which include public-private nonprofit organizations with experience working on LGBT issues on a national level.

* A Housing Victory! On the same day as HHS’s announcement, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan discussed the housing agency’s series of proposals to ensure that its core housing programs are open to all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity. Discrimination on these bases is prohibited by the Fair Housing Act, but HUD acknowledged that the Act doesn’t specifically cite its protection of LGBT people.

Although there is no existing data on such discrimination, Secretary Donovan said that it undoubtedly exists. To build the evidence of such barriers, HUD is commissioning the first-ever nationwide study into the occurrences and effects of discriminatory housing sales and rental programs. The plan includes clarifying that the term “family” includes LGBT individuals and couples; instituting requirements for grant recipients to comply with local and state non-discrimination laws that cover sexual orientation or gender identity; and stipulating that mortgage loans insured through the Federal Housing Administration consider only credit-worthiness when determining loan approvals, regardless of unrelated factors such as sexual orientation or gender identity.

===========

we ARE making progress and it won't be long before we will never hear that word uttered publicly, and those who do so will become the stigmatized ones. hate will not prevail. just as the 'n' word has lost its salience except in certain circles, such will be the demise of the 'fag' word in generations to come. much to the chagrin of certain elements of our culture, we will no longer be forced to cower in the shadows just because someone snarls at us from some imagined position of superiority, moral or otherwise.

oh happy day!

ron

In my opinion until an insult is hurled at YOU, it's really not something to be concerned with. If it's against a friend, ok, that I can understand. Though I think it's still a 50% "should" and 50% "should not" get involved issue. I had a friend that's black, and when a snot-nosed wannabe-a-skinhead white punk called him a nigger, I was kicked out of the store for punching the brat. Turned out the kid WAS a kid- 15. And I'm nearly 40. No ticket, the cop couldn't stop laughing. Someone finally taught that kid a lesson.

But I call gays a variety of names. Pardon me, but I've been abused repeatedly by gays and I have no fondness of them. Tolerance, perhaps. Nothing more. IMO if my friends are gay, that's their choice. I don't go bragging about screwing women, they can hold off on bragging about screwing men. I see it as mutual respect.

OTOH, I have on occasion used the word "nigger", and only once in reference to a black man. The rest were actually against whites. It's safer that way because I can insult them like there ain't no tommorow, and they can't do anything about it. If they accuse me of being a racist, the egg's in their face not mine. THEY are the ones putting color to the insult, not me!

I'll use any term I want when I insult someone, but they gotta do something really bad to get me to do it though. I'm not homophobic in the least it. I don't fear them, I just don't like them! I'm not racist, I judge on personalities and behavior, not color!

But I *AM* an asshole, and I'm damn proud of it!

I will say though that DJ's my friend, and don't nobody be cutting him!

Don't nobody need to be cutting no one period.

Wow. This has been a very interesting learning experience.

I did not realize how the use of words was so hurtful and widespread.

I have heard here from both those that have heard words and to those that use them.

You are all my friend and brothers in recovery. I am never sure how to post a thread that is so personal and then back away from it in an emotional sense. I know I own to many things that are not mine.

Peace,
DJ

LL you are blunt and insulting but admit it and this good. I can never be insulting.

Interesting. My own abuser is gay, and yet you and I kind of went different ways. You became a hater, but I became deeply reflective about GLBT issues. If anything, I tend to take homophobia personally because of all the questioning I went through after the abuse. I do agree about the need for good boundaries and mutual respect though.

Bewl and Westchesterguy.

I understand now....

sorry to be a grump...and not see the humor at first....

Yeah, those damn haters. My gawd! I'm supposed to be as warm and loving as the man that raped me in 1987! Oh, and the love and adoration the guys showed me when they SA'd me when I was in jail, I guess I should feel honored instead!

ETA- "hater"? Damn skippy homeboy!