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#312469 - 11/30/09 11:56 PM Teacher/Student Sex?
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Apparently in the state of Georgia it is now OK for a teacher to have sex with a student 16 years of age or older, providing that it is "consentual". What do people here think of this? I'll reserve my opinion until I hear from others. In the meantime here's a link to an article outlining the issue:

http://www.mdjonline.com/pages/full_story/push?article-Teacher-student+consensual+sex+law+under+fire%20&id=4674331&instance=home_news_1st_right

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#312498 - 12/01/09 03:33 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jls]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
Pedos and hebes are always trying to justify what they do. Does that surprise you? Doesn't surprise me in the least.


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#312532 - 12/01/09 10:50 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: LilacLouie]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:01 PM)

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#312574 - 12/01/09 08:00 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jbh8]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Any sexual relationship that is affected by power is NOT ok in my opinion. Teacher/student, parent/child, coach/player, boss/worker, etc. It is the spirit of the relationship for me.

JB - your opinion matters very much.

Peace,
DJ

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#312614 - 12/02/09 12:20 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jbh8]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Hi JB,

While your opinion is valued I respectfully disagree. If a student is not taking a class from a teacher at the school s/he is attending it would be OK at university in my opinion since it involves two adults. The person in university is also not mandated by law to attend school like it is with high school kids. My other point takes off from here, that is we are talking about kids. On this point I don't think its right for a 22 year old, teacher or not, to be having a sexual relationship with someone under 18. There is a big difference in maturity and power there. Most 16 year olds is still live lives as defined by their parents. On this point, following reading the article, I asked myself how would I feel about sending my child off to school each day with the knowledge that s/he could become involved in a legally santioned sexual relationship with a teacher at his or her school? Any parents here want to chip in they're two cents on this subject? JS

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#312623 - 12/02/09 01:13 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jls]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:01 PM)

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#312625 - 12/02/09 01:38 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jbh8]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Looking at it on the surface though a person who can't vote, can't drink, can't smoke or legally sign they're name to anything, such as a lease, is considered a child in the eyes of the law. Given all this I don't think its appropraite for an adult who can excercise these rights and priviledges to be having a sexual relationship with someone who can't due to their age. JS

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#312627 - 12/02/09 01:56 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jls]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:00 PM)

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#312651 - 12/02/09 10:23 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jbh8]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
Since according to GA's supreme court 16 year olds are mature enough to have a relationship with an adult then they should be mature enough to appear in porn videos and when NV realizes this I guess they can work in the legal brothels too. Does this sound absurd to you? Of course, so does this ruling by the GA supreme court.

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#312661 - 12/02/09 12:25 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: onlyakid]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Well, aren't these some of the same guys who still have a love affair with the Confederate flag??? I'm upset about the pervs who may get a free ride on this one but...

Hard to NOT see this one through ones own prism I think. I am devastated to imagine some insecure kid getting convinced " it was their idea" or "it was consensual"...but that's because that's my story.

I think the question of gender must also enter into it...even if I run the risk of being old fashioned. Here in our context of MS, the majority of us automatically imagine a 16 year old boy and a 22 year old man. I think we know how most parents would feel about that. How many parents would be fine with the idea of a so called normal, i.e. hetero relationship between their high school junior daughter and a man who's just finished college?

Ironically if I had been asked the question at 16 I would have most likely in my youthful lack of knowledge and perpetrator shaped skewed perception of reality not had a problem with it. Maybe it would be fine in some instances, maybe not. I think my current tendency would be to err on the side of caution and not sanction those few relationships which might not work out to the disadvantage of the younger party in order to prevent those relationships which would be potentially damaging to the younger partner.

I would like however to address jbh8 directly and point out that the level of maturity some very few and exceptional people display at 16 is not the norm. Also simply because it's acknowledged that some people are not high school material in the US at 16 and therefore are allowed to drop out of school, not many people think it's a positive thing to do.

Perhaps it's also just an acknowledgment that this will happen so why try to put people in jail for it. This is of course a line of argument which is used in the movement to legalize cannabis. That however, I feel is quite different since the guy chilling with his dube while watching TV land at night, is only harming himself...if that.

sono





Edited by sono (12/02/09 12:31 PM)
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#312689 - 12/02/09 04:34 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: onlyakid]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
Quote:
Since according to GA's supreme court 16 year olds are mature enough to have a relationship with an adult then they should be mature enough to appear in porn videos and when NV realizes this I guess they can work in the legal brothels too. Does this sound absurd to you? Of course, so does this ruling by the GA supreme court.


excellent point jtt5254
i completely agree this ruling by GA courts is out of touch and irresponsable.

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#312746 - 12/03/09 12:50 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: myboyhoodfears]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
What stuns me is this is judge made law in response to appeals by former teachers convicted of having sexual relationships with their underage students. It would be bad enough if it were a pro-active ruling, let alone one that appears to condone predatory behaviour by actual predators. What was going thru these teacher's minds anyways? Let's just forget for a minute that we're talking about kids here. Even with adults do people go to their doctor with the expectation that there may be sex involved? Do clients go to their therapist beleiving that is OK for she or he to recieve sexual gratification from them? Even myself, I work with homeless people and would never dream of using my power and authority in that position to seek sex with such a vulnerable population. JS

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#312773 - 12/03/09 07:02 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jls]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
Question, rhetorical if you wish- if your brother has sex with a girl, and she consents to it, yet he's 32 and she's 17, is he a pedophile, hebephile, of a horny boyfriend?

It's she's of legal age and he consents, then there was no rape or sexual assault.


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#312809 - 12/03/09 01:08 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: LilacLouie]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Louie,

I would say in that instance your brother is an asshole 1st and foremost and at least a little sick...I mean I've been 32 and 17 year olds definitely felt off limits in no uncertain terms. And, if nothing else outside of fulfilling some sick "barely legal" fantasy, the only other reason you'd go with someone that much younger seems to able to be the controlling partner in the relationship...which undoubtedly would be the case with a 15 year age difference at those ages. We're not talking legal issues now, just reality and people do get into unfortunate relationship dynamics.

sono

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#312814 - 12/03/09 01:20 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: LilacLouie]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
legalities aside, i would not aprove of a 32 year old having sex with a 17 year old under ANY circumstances.



Edited by myboyhoodfears (12/03/09 02:11 PM)
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#312836 - 12/03/09 05:44 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: LilacLouie]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
A hypothetical question: How would you or your family feel about your 32 year old brother bringing a 17 year old girl home to dinner, announcing that she was his girlfriend? Conversely, if she were your sister and brought home a 32 year old man how would you feel about this? Subjectively I can't understand how anyone in their 20's 30's or older can justify a relationship with an underage teenager. They can't drink, smoke, vote, rent an apartment without a co-signer, travel out of the country without their parent's permission or even see an R rated movie for god's sake so what basis is there for a relationship, besides sex? In this way I call it predatory. JS

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#312848 - 12/03/09 07:53 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jls]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Well said......

I do not want my son or daughter to be with one more or less than 5 years different.

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Live to your fullest potential

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#312862 - 12/03/09 09:09 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: DJsport]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:00 PM)

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#312866 - 12/03/09 10:21 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jbh8]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
i would disagree,...im pretty sure that statistics show that the larger the age gap the less likely the relationship will last, while there maybe some exceptions, its not the norm,....the few historical accounts of large age discrepent relationships that were considered "the best" as you put it,...are not likely based on reality, but romatisized versions of reality...most reliable accounts of very large age descrepent relationships are not positive,...many women in the past who wrote about being being in age discrepent relationships were forced into these relationships and were not happy, which was the case with the vast majority of how these relationships occurred in the past, the parents sold thier children off to the highest bidder, no one was asked if they wanted to actually marry that 50 year old guy,..they had to...there are numerous horror stories of abuses like this that span thousands of years, we dont hear much about those beause they dont make for light reading,...the formulae that sociologists use of five years or less is based on a statisical analysis of how long these relationships last and how positive the people in these relationships feel about them....not just some random number.



Edited by myboyhoodfears (12/04/09 06:13 PM)
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#312974 - 12/04/09 05:55 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: DJsport]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
I think when we are talking about disparities in age when it comes to relationships we need to focus on the stages in life that each person is in and not necessarily the age difference per se. For example, a 10 year age difference between a 25 year old and a 35 year old would not and shouldn't be frowned upon in the least. However, if it were between a 25 year old and a 15 year old then this is a very different story. Food for thought: how about a 5 year old and a 15 year old? Obviously everyone here would find that abhorent, yet when it comes to underage teenagers there is sometimes a tendency to treat them like full fledged adults capable of consenting to sex with adults when they are not. Just my thoughts. JS

_________________________
Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.


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#312981 - 12/04/09 06:41 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jls]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
i agree jls,...my mother was 15 when she got married to my father who was 26, she had my older brother at 16 and me at 19, and was divorced by the time she was 23....by todays standard he (my father) would have been arrested, personally i think he should have been....so social norms might be a predictor as far as how prevalent a particular type of relationship is, but its not a predictor as far the outcomes (how healthy, how long they lasted, and or how positive both parties feel about them)....in other words while it maybe true that in the past these types of relationships were common, there is no proof that they were healthy just because they were common....kinda like how slavery was common in virtually every culture, not because it was a good thing...but because people were ignorant and it was common practice to exploit others who are less empowered in society....not consodered good form these days.

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#313024 - 12/05/09 04:07 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: sono]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By: sono
Louie,

I would say in that instance your brother is an asshole 1st and foremost and at least a little sick...I mean I've been 32 and 17 year olds definitely felt off limits in no uncertain terms. And, if nothing else outside of fulfilling some sick "barely legal" fantasy, the only other reason you'd go with someone that much younger seems to able to be the controlling partner in the relationship...which undoubtedly would be the case with a 15 year age difference at those ages. We're not talking legal issues now, just reality and people do get into unfortunate relationship dynamics.

sono

Sono, I don't have a brother, but thank you for the thought.

I don't think it's right either. But I also don't think that homosexuality is right. Should that be illegal? What about blacks and whites having sex? Lots of folks think that's illegal.
Now what about the age issue? What if, instead, it's a 30 year old girl and a 65 year old man?

The point is not IF it's illegal. The court said it was. You don't like it? Well, I don't think it's right either. But, she consented and the court said it's legal. At what point do we, people that don't even know her, have the right to tell her or her parents or the guy that fucked her IF what she did was wrong?

Because by those same standards, some of you complain about people trying to make homosexuality wrong and illegal. But you don't think that's right....? How is it right for you to define what's right in sexuality when you don't like it when it's done to you?

I don't like gays. But I really don't care if anyone is gay. Their life, their problem, not mine. If they are happy, go for it. Just don't try doing it with me.

At the same time, if that 17 year old girl consented and the court says there's nothing illegal about it, then who are we to judge?


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#313097 - 12/05/09 05:01 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: LilacLouie]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
"Now what about the age issue? What if, instead, it's a 30 year old girl and a 65 year old man?"

First of all, I wouldn't call a 30 year female a girl. She is a woman, which is precisely what I'm getting at. The age difference per se isn't the issue. Its whether that age difference involves adults having sexual relationships with kids, and yes, 16 and 17 year olds are still kids, who shouldn't be having sexual relationships with adults in general, let alone their teachers.

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Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.


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#313109 - 12/05/09 06:04 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: LilacLouie]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
Quote:
the court says there's nothing illegal about it, then who are we to judge?


lilaclouie, i think we have a legitimate right to question court decsions,....they suffer from the human condition like anyone and their judgments are not immune from criticism, nor are they written in stone.

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#313390 - 12/07/09 04:25 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: myboyhoodfears]
ComicBookGuy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 443
Loc: London, England
At that age the sentence would be lower, but the teacher would still get fired and barred from teaching over here even if the pupil was of age. A woman got three years for her affair with a 15 year old last month.

Good to see that we don't play that down anymore, English schools have enough problems without child abuse getting in the way.

As for Georgia; any teacher wanting to put this precedent to the test to see if the parents would be okay with sleeping with a student of 16, that's a very big gamble they're taking with their life.



Edited by ComicBookGuy (12/07/09 04:27 PM)
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#313464 - 12/07/09 11:41 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: myboyhoodfears]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Here in Canada a few years ago there was a case where an adult male was convicted of molesting a 3 year old, but not before the judge considered mitigating circumstances, namely calling the 3 year old sexually provocative. How absurd is that? That case solidified my belief that we should never take the court's decisions at face value. Comicbookguy, I agree with you that no parent would accept their underage children going to school with the knowledge that s/he may be having sex with their teacher while there. Nor should any school teacher think this is appropriate. If they do then they should get out of the business of teaching and stay away from children and underage teenagers altogheter. Sorry to sound so rigid but I'm that black and white about it. JS

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Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.


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#313485 - 12/08/09 12:14 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jls]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
a sexually provacative 3 year old????,...now ive heard it all...just goes to show you that even judges are not always the sharpest tools in the shed....bleh.

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#313676 - 12/09/09 04:05 AM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: myboyhoodfears]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
It just goes to show that with our court system almost everything is considered a defence, regardless of whether a circumstance lives up to the statute involved, or if its just a matter of reading between the lines to gain some common sense. JS

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Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.


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#313744 - 12/09/09 04:37 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jls]
MittensxonxKit Offline


Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 16
Loc: in a ditch on Highland and Fr...
well to be totally honest...my fiance used to be the student teacher in my sociology class. I wasn't still in his class when we started actually dating...and was legal when we started...that stuff...
But I still don't agree with this...It was a little different with him being a student teacher because he's still technically in college and only 23...most teachers aren't that young....in general 16 year olds shouldn't be sleeping with someone that much older than them...old enough to be a teacher...now if the student is 18 I see nothing wrong with it...because technically you're pretty much legal and by law allowed to make your own decisions...at 16 you aren't an adult yet....

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#313911 - 12/10/09 06:04 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: MittensxonxKit]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
In a university or college setting a student 18 or older having a sexual relationship with a professor or instructor should be viewed simply as a conflict of interest, not a case of sexual abuse. I would even go as far to say that it wouldn't be a conflict of interest if the university or college student wasn't taking a class from the professor or instructor in question. However, in my view no adult should be having a sexual relationship with underage adolescents, the exception being if there is an age difference of no more than 1 or 2 years i.e. a 17 year old and a 19 year old. However, this rule of thumb should preclude high school teachers having sex with their students since there are no 19 year old high school teachers that I'm aware of. JS

P.S. I like your signature:)

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#313942 - 12/10/09 10:03 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jls]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 03:52 PM)

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#314019 - 12/11/09 02:14 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: jbh8]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
teachers are hired to teach other peoples children not cruise for sex. if they have a relationship with an 18 year old that is not enrolled at the same school then i don't see that as a problem, depending on the age differential....but if the student is enrolled in the same school....absolutly not, under any circumstances,..because it sends a negative message to other younger students and parents that teachers can get away with hitting on and cruising the school for potential sexual encounters with students....if you want to date a barely legal teen,...then there not much we can do about it,...but the school district has a legitimate right to fire a teacher who does not follow their rules of engagement, that is no teacher who has influence over a student enrolled in the same school either directly or indirectly should be allowed to date and or have sex with that student....just like its unethical for a psychologist to have a sexual relationship with his patient, but with high school teachers we also have to consider that they will be in contact with younger students who will invariably have knowledge of the relationship, and they may also attend classes of the teacher in question, this will no doubt cause unnecessary conflict with the parents of younger students.

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#314042 - 12/11/09 05:41 PM Re: Teacher/Student Sex? [Re: myboyhoodfears]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Well said. You are 100% correct in your assessment. Let's just say that if I had teenaged children and lived in the state of Georgia I would be pulling them out of school after hearing about this court ruling. In law there is a concept call fidiciuary duty, which means that professionals like lawyers, doctors and yes, teachers, have an obligation to put the interests their clients, patients or students above all else, especially their own. At the very least, it should go without saying that a high school teacher who initiates sex with a student fails to live up to this expectation. JS

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