Newest Members
Stormchaser, johnnyc717, bluebook, Roscoe, SJC
12314 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
iwishicared (41), Scott Oliver (53), TutDaVinci (32)
Who's Online
2 registered (2 invisible), 22 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12314 Members
74 Forums
63367 Topics
443100 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#311297 - 11/21/09 12:32 PM Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:05 PM)

Top
#311328 - 11/21/09 07:22 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: jbh8]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
j, sorry you are having to suffer this dilemma, i guess it was inevitable though. i've stood in your shoes during my early life being raised roman catholic. there was no other way to be than what was ordained and sanctioned by dogma. i spent half of my life trying to fit into that, and allowed my inability to measure down to that standard become the source of a great deal of shame for me. that shame caused me to create an entire false self out of the need to prove myself worthy of love and acceptance. i even went so far as to ruin the lives of another family by dragging them into my drama. it happens a lot.

i have no advice or suggestions for you. obviously, you been dealt a sucky hand, and you have to figure out how to play it.

but we're here to give you all the emotional support we can while you figure out the steps you need to take to solve your puzzle. we can only tell you what worked and didn't work for our own unique case, and hope there may be something there that may be useful.

be true to yourself j. if at all possible, avoid dragging innocent bystanders into the fray of your own personal dilemma. you owe no one an explanation for that. your inner world, and your direction are no man's business but yours, and the one who made you. please don't make mistakes that will ultimately rob you of the life you were meant to have, but rather will remove from your hands the ability to guide your life in the path it was truly meant to go, just to please some panel of critics and judges who profess to have your best interests at heart.

all the best,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#311338 - 11/21/09 09:55 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: Sans Logos]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:05 PM)

Top
#311342 - 11/21/09 10:27 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: jbh8]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
jbh8,

You did not involve anyone innocent in this. You posted something honestly. I understand about struggles involving religion. It is not easy at all in any way.

I truly wish you well as you seek out answers for yourself. I do not know you well but hope to get to know you better.


Daryl

_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

Top
#311367 - 11/22/09 05:15 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: jbh8]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Quote:
I'm trying not to include any innocent bystanders


...no, i didn't think you were. i was just using myself as an example for what NOT to do. when you marry, you marry a family and all the people in it, not just the person; and to that family you marry your unresolved issues. i was just hoping that you would hold off on that until you cleared up your confusion, and not just do it because some rule book said to. speaking of confusion, i'm sorry if my reply was not helpful. i just don't want to see you get hurt any more than you already have been. cool

all the best,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#311375 - 11/22/09 09:10 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: Sans Logos]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Originally Posted By: jbh8
I'm not sure I can even put the blame there. It's probably all on me.



Hi James,

I know this was an incredibly big step you took in posting this topic and I really wanna give you a big hand for making that step.


I hope you can realize that many of the big stresses going on in your life ARE related exactly to what you experiences as a child, and NOT some inherent flaw in you!!!!!!!!!

If I may James, I feel like you are right now putting unnecessary pressure on yourself about what your life will look like while right now you're in a phase where you still have a lot of sorting to do about the very traumatic events you've experienced. Maybe some of my fellow survivors might disagree with me, but I feel working on that, in whatever ways you might feel comfortable (and I'm glad coming here is one of those for you) is even more important that trying to answer any specific orientation issues. By that I mean at some point working with a professional to try and make sense of what happened to you. These other issues will of course be a part of that, but I think trying to focus on those questions specifically will continue to bring frustration until you have a little more distance and perspective on those indeed very formative experiences.

Reconciling whatever all of this may lead to in terms of your religion is a topic that I am not much help with. I merely suggest to try and not make that your principle question right now, but rather "what DOES all of that mean that happened to me." Maybe you're not there yet, ready to do that I mean, but I do really feel and I think many guys would agree with me, that at some point it is essential to sorting out your life's picture and by that point a balance between all of these issues will be easier to reach.

strength and patience,

sono

_________________________
the family
the perp

Top
#311380 - 11/22/09 09:50 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: Sans Logos]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:05 PM)

Top
#311382 - 11/22/09 10:01 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: sono]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:04 PM)

Top
#311391 - 11/22/09 11:30 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: jbh8]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Hi, J.

I was once a licensed minister in the Assembly of God church.

I was well respected and loved. I was married at the time and had lots of family.

When I came to terms with my same sex attractions, I also had to come to terms others would NOT like it.

I am so honored to listen to you and your sharing.

You have gotten some great feedback and I cant add to it except to say BRAVO to you for getting to you more.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

Top
#311399 - 11/22/09 01:36 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: jbh8]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Hey James,

Do you know what bothers you more...that everyone else is hooking up and you feel left out, or that you have no interest in hooking up...if I've incorrectly understood what you meant, I'm sorry, and by all means don't feel compelled to answer these questions for me.

In either event, I feel dealing with the csa possibly plays a bigger role in the solution to the problem than may yet be apparent to you now. I know that has turned out to be the case for me, in so many ways that were prior to beginning recovery unimaginable to me.

In spite of all of this, I hope you can find some time to do some things you enjoy doing...go play some music!!

sono

_________________________
the family
the perp

Top
#311432 - 11/22/09 06:27 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: jbh8]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: jbh8
...there's a huge push for people to get married....


Sigh... reading here what pressures the community and society "at large" place upon men, and you young men in particular, really angers me. So, I can't write more or I'm likely to upset many with a needless, political rant. :-) Sending you a virtual hug.

_________________________
Jeff

Top
#311433 - 11/22/09 06:29 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: westchesterguy]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
rant on my brother, rant on! :applause:

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#311441 - 11/22/09 07:39 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: sono]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:04 PM)

Top
#311449 - 11/22/09 08:18 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: jbh8]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
jbh8,

I was once in your shoes as a young man. As an opposite path, I ended up married and now have 3 children. But like Ron said for you, I had to first sort out my own personal issues to where I could be sure that IF I vowed to be married to a woman, I would live up to my responsibilities. In MY case, I went through a couple of years of counseling and concluded, A) my same sex attraction would never go away and B) I am also attracted to women and finally C) I could forsake all others for a particular woman that I found, including the males. You have to sort the issues out yourself. My advice: Study the relevant>
_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Top
#311466 - 11/23/09 12:11 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: catfish86]
Charlie24 Offline


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 562
James I'm not part of the LDS religion but I will say this, I've struggled with this issue myself.

You hear these people running around saying homosexuality is a sin.

What about eating shrimp, that supposedly is another sin, I've eaten that several times, will eat it more, looks like I'm headed for hell I guess, had to lighten the mood a little.

I do then wonder if all these other sins are committed, then couldn't we say the majority of believers and non-believers have committed sin in their life.

This is something that eats away at me.

I really wonder if God exists?

I wonder what happens when we die?

What's the purpose of living?

Where do I belong?

Just wish I could love and accept myself, problem is I feel like I don't know myself.

Great topic, thanks for sharing and allowing for me to share.

Charlie.



Edited by Charlie24 (11/23/09 12:47 AM)

Top
#311594 - 11/24/09 11:27 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: Charlie24]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:03 PM)

Top
#311595 - 11/24/09 11:36 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: catfish86]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:03 PM)

Top
#311687 - 11/25/09 03:55 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: jbh8]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
Quote:
You hear these people running around saying homosexuality is a sin.

It is. But Jesus still loves you.

Quote:
I believe eating shrimp/shellfish, pork, and many of those other dietary laws came from a certain time and place where health and environmental concerns were important. There are 613 commandments in the Old Testament.

They did. Even then,m the church I am ordained in still speaks against eating them (I am no longer LDS). Except for shrimp, because shrimp DO INDEED have fins and scales. Pork, I stay a long ways from. It's a health issue clearly. My family has a history of heart problems. And they love pork. My mother, sister, and grandfather have had their arteries sonically cleaned. All three have had strokes. My mom and grandpa also had heart attacks. My sister had her arteries cleaned back in 2001. She was 33.

I am 39, I keep pork out of my diet, and to this day I have NEVER had any heart problems.




Edited by LilacLouie (11/25/09 03:59 AM)

Top
#311726 - 11/25/09 11:16 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: LilacLouie]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:02 PM)

Top
#311762 - 11/25/09 05:18 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: jbh8]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
I love meat. But pork has proven God's word to me.
IMO.


Top
#311814 - 11/26/09 01:20 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: LilacLouie]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
Charlie - Interpretation of the Bible is as individual as one's relationship with God. For years I was taught homosexuality was a sin but do not believe that to be the truth. Not by my interpretation anyway. I do not care to get into - or spark - a debate but wanted to share that with you.

James - I wish you well in your endeavor to find your own way and sorting out some issues.


Daryl



Edited by prisonerID (11/26/09 01:39 AM)
_________________________
Broad statements often miss their true mark.

Top
#311836 - 11/26/09 08:18 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: prisonerID]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
yea daryl, me too.

i can accept that certain churches have their code of ethics that they expect their subscribers to adhere to.

but, like you, i grew up in a country ruled by right wing religious bible based thought. the overall power of those ideals seem to be diminishing and i personally have gotten out from under its sway, and in doing so i have eliminated a great portion of internal stress. i can now breathe without the suffocating hand of religion blocking my mouth.

it sure is curious to observe the various and sundry stories that have come down the pike over the years attempting to conceptualize and contextualize the creator for human consumption.

curious AND frightening. i'm less frightened of a nameless faceless god than i am of the ones dreamt up in the imaginations of humans. i find that god much more approachable and compassionate.

sorry if the this response sidetracks the original conversation. maybe only mormons should respond. if it's offensive, let me know and i'll remove it.

all the best,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#311847 - 11/26/09 10:52 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: Sans Logos]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
JB, if you don't mind, let me give a brief sermon to you.

Something to consider is a saying I heard an elderly pastor say many many moons back- "When you quit questioning your faith, you quit believing."

God, Yahweh, Yvhv, Yashua, and by what other names He may have, is still the One and the Only "true goid" we will ever have. We, as in you and I, we know that Jesus IS His Son. We know that because He tells us so. We can question our faith, we can question our clergy, and you can even *ask* God questions, but you can NEVER question His honesty. So we have God. Then we have Jesus. Then we have the Holy Spirit. Again, because He said so. In this I cannot define "if" they are three yet one, perhaps they are. Perhaps they are three separate and distinct entities. Who knows? God knows. And along with the many gifts that God has given us, one of which is the Holy Bible.

So in this we now have One God. One Jesus. One Holy Spirit. And One Holy Bible. But from the 250 million souls in America alone, there seems to be 300 million different religions....? Why is that?

As the elderly pastor said, "When you quit questioning your faith, you quit believing."

One thing that was instrumental in me leaving the LDS is when they said they are the only True Church. Really? I recall being raised Mormon. Getting in fights with other kids because they didn't believe in the Mormon church and would make fun of it. But when they started telling us, me, that you never question church leaders, I began questioning if I really beleived in that church after all those years.

I was baptised at the tender age of 8 in Jan. 1978, received my Melchezidek Priesthood in May 1997. And I left in Nov. 1999. But until Feb. 2002 the church refused to honor my request.

I had to question our leaders. They are human, not god-like! I still had so many questions, and no one would answer them. Why?

So I started looking elsewhere for my answers.

Brother JB I am not asking you to leave the Mormon church. Go where you wish to go, and if that means staying Mormon, by all means stay! It's your life, you live it as you see fit.

I soon found another faith, and I joined them. After my initial departure from the LDS and before I was ordained in Cosmos, I had gone to 8 maybe 9 different churches. Then I found Cosmos, and I found home.

I feel that when a church tells you to what standards you must live inoder to be saved, I start questioning how much of a church they really are. It says in the Bible, you get to Heaven through Jesus and by accepting Him as your Savior. You get salvation by faith, not works. And we both know too well how so many people in the LDS do exactly the opposite- works ahead of faith.

Be whatever Church or religion any of you want to be. But before you take heed to their teachings, remember the Holy Bible. And remember that you are saved by choice, not by how much work you do.

Church is great for mingling and associating and learning.
Salvation means trusting in God and Jesus, not "a" church.

Just my view.


Top
#311849 - 11/26/09 11:31 AM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: LilacLouie]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
A couple of things to remember when questioning "right wing" conservative values and the bible. The Mormon church was forced to renounce polygamy because it is sinful. Yet the Bible has more polygamous marriages than not.

My wife was raised pentacostal and taught how evil sex is. Problem is (sorry to the atheists and evolutionaries, but this is in the context of belief in God) that God is the one who created the orgasm. If God only intended sex for procreation he would not have made it so pleasurable. As with many things, when it is placed above God in your life or leads you into doing evil (ie, breaking up your neighbor's family with adultery, snatching a child, raping another), then that is a sin.

Yet we have religions declaring what position must be used and certain sex acts (fellatio, cunnilingus, sodomy) are sinful in and of themselves. If you REALLY look, you tell me where in the Bible it states that premarital sex in and of itself is a sin. It does go back to the two Greatest Commandments. To an extent, all three of those acts previously mentioned are selfless acts to please another.In other words, acts of love.



Edited by catfish86 (11/26/09 11:32 AM)
_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Top
#311858 - 11/26/09 12:31 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: Sans Logos]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:02 PM)

Top
#311859 - 11/26/09 12:45 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: catfish86]
jbh8 Offline


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 94


Edited by jbh8 (02/20/13 04:02 PM)

Top
#311864 - 11/26/09 01:03 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: jbh8]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Originally Posted By: catfish
certain sex acts (fellatio, cunnilingus, sodomy) are selfless...acts of love


i love the way u think catfish! ..... oh inverted world! take back the night daylight! crazy

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#311872 - 11/26/09 02:10 PM Re: Being LDS (Mormon) and Potentially Gay [Re: Sans Logos]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 820
Loc: Ohio
Well it is true that sex is not a sin, ask the Catholic Church how that whole celibate preist thing is working out.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.