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#309001 - 11/02/09 08:32 AM homosexual imprinting
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
i was exploring joe kort's site and came across one of his articles on homosexual imprinting. i think he's hit a hole in one, here:

--------->>>>>>>>>

Homosexual Imprinting [by joe kort]

Homosexual Imprinting is when a male has been sexually abused by another male and acts out homosexually.

The fundamental principle here is that he is reenacting his sexual abuse, not expressing a homosexual identity.

In other words the behavior is homosexual in that it is male on male. However, the sexually abused male is heterosexual. Reparative therapies would lead you to believe that there is "not such thing as homosexuality" and that all homosexual expression is an "acting out".

This is false.

There are men who behave homosexually and are truly gay--romantically, affectionally, spiritually, sexually and psychologically.

Homosexually imprinted men are straight men whose homosexual expression is about behavioral acting out from original trauma.

SEX & LOVE MAPPING

By mapping I mean that one’s love and sexual preference map are determined early on in childhood. It is how we learn how to love. We observe and absorb how others love or neglect or abuse us and that becomes our “love map” according to John Money, a pioneer in the field of sexology.

This map becomes a template for what you seek out for pleasure in your adulthood.

Early in childhood, we’re all imprinted with family beliefs and societal norms. Imprinting is the psychological process by which specific types of behavior are locked in, at an early stage of development. All of us, gay and straight alike, are conditioned to think, feel, and act the way our early childhood caretakers nurture and teach us.

The first important thing to consider is this doesn’t mean the client is gay or even bi. He is simply left with an imprint to re-enact his homosexual abuse and find “pleasure” in what was inflicted on him as a child. In reality, this isn’t pleasure at all, but trauma turned into orgasm.

In the book, Male Victims of Same-Sex Abuse: Addressing Their Sexual Response by John M. Preble and A. Nicholas Groth they say it best:

“……this may actually reflect an effort at mastery of the traumatic event …..when he was being sexually victimized, someone else was in control of him sexually. During masturbation he is literally in control of himself sexually, and this may be a way in which he attempts to reclaim mastery over his own sexuality. Likewise, his participation in consensual sex reflects his choice and decision.”

The authors go on to say that “the fantasy thoughts are prompted by fear more than desire, by anxiety more than pleasure”. In other words, they become a way of managing the fear and anxiety.

Second, just because the sexual abuse was committed by a male doesn’t mean that it constituted homosexuality. When men sexually abuse girls, we don’t claim it’s about heterosexuality! We say it is simply sexual abuse—which involves power, violation and rape. Nothing about that is related to orientation.
<<<<<<<<<<---------

the thing that really makes it difficult, is that i deeply love males, and i want to be sexual with some of them, but because of the trauma connected to my first orgasm experience with my older brother, i fear it at the same time. what a conflict.

frown

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#309033 - 11/02/09 01:53 PM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: Sans Logos]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 860
Loc: washington
Ron,

Part of me aqrees with these statements and part of me does not (think I will save "parts" for my own personal post).

My map was altered by a male...which led to different forms of co-existant type stuff. Most people fear pain (emotional ~or~ physical)...this is one of the reasons...I didn't seek recovery earlier...

I haven't been able to connect the dots...between what is even , good pain vs. bad pain...and, I am sure, the best minds will be working on this until the day I die.

When men abuse girls...we don't claim it's about hetrosexuality...(that is true)...at the same time...I am sure there are probably a whole bunch of lesbians out there that were abused by males...and being with women works as a individual fix to their brokenness...

This is an interesting article...but I am left, with the thought...that we can not lump every individual into a box... and tie a neat little bow around it... confused... crazy... smile... cool


Who's Going Home With You Tonight (Trapt)

island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#309112 - 11/03/09 01:19 AM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: 1islandboy]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
when I found that article a few months back it was like a revelation. I had heard that information spoken before, but to see it so clearly outlined on that website by Joe Kort did so much to sort of ease my anxiety, and actually led to several great EMDR sessions where I was able to address why I was acting out, etc. It was also a validation of pretty much everything I had thought of in my head for the past 12 years or so.


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#309259 - 11/04/09 08:40 AM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: Sans Logos]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Wow that is what I have thought and been trying to articulate for a long time. Thanks Ron.


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#309279 - 11/04/09 12:13 PM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: Freedom49]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Ron,

I am baffled - very confused - by the article.

According to the article it sounds as if "homosexuality is the result of sexual abuse". I read this article as the author believing we replay the abuse as we get off.

If this is true - if anyone has read my story (chicken coup) then I should be a ....

Well I am NOT and in fact I am NOT in the least bit interested in the "workings" of sex that my perp decided he wanted.

If this is true - I will NEVER be without healing of the violence and its affect on how I LOVE.

I am tired of others trying to define why homosexuals are homosexuals.

I totally disagree!!!!! This notion of abuse=homosexuality is hogwash. My experience from the abuse was violent. I in NO way get off or seek violence in having sex or in love. If I was to truly believe this author then I would wish for death and still be angry at NOT succeeding in my attempt last year.

Hopefully, this will NOT send me into a tailspin. Sorry I read this.

This will be my last post here.

Angrily,
DJ







Edited by DJsport (11/04/09 12:37 PM)
_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#309280 - 11/04/09 12:38 PM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: DJsport]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
dj, this article is simply affirming that there are several different scenarios at play, each of them equally valid in their own particular pathology.

as a gay man, i was imprinted by a male on male relationship by my older brother who was not gay. but what the experience did was not confuse my sexuality, but rather only my natural ability to connect to my authentic sexuality.

the article does for me [affirms what i know to be true about myself as a homosexual man] as it does for roger [ affirms what he knows to be true about his experience as a heterosexual man whose sexual identity got convoluted by his experience at being perped by a male....his father, no less].

if anything, this article rescues each of us from investment in labels, and the ensuing shame, while pointing to the idea that sexuality is more about a combination of spiritual, emotional and psychological components, than it is about the single biological component [which we were left to believe for so many years].

the article simply asks each of us to consider the topic outside of the realm of dualistic black and white thinking, showing us another way to see it. it's not meant to cause us to question what have come to understand about our own unique experience, but rather to verify and support our comprehension of it.

i hope that makes sense,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#309299 - 11/04/09 02:37 PM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: Sans Logos]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
Hi, my fraternal brothers.

Very intersesting topic.

For me, all this makes sense now.

I can see just how i was imprinted.

After all, i had sincerely believed that i (little Pete) had loved Ralph. And big Pete had the same belief that Ralph, had loved us. Right up to a few months ago.

Like i have said before..."I didn't know me, until now"

Heal well my fraternal brothers, heal well.

" I will take that lost boys hand, and i will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunlight, forever into eternity".

Little Pete & big Pete...but 1 (Irishmoose).



Edited by petercorbett (11/04/09 02:38 PM)
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#309300 - 11/04/09 02:38 PM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: Sans Logos]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
dj...i think Ron has a point here...its not trying to explain why "everyone" is gay....it just a possible developmental path....clearly there are those who have homosexual attractions and were not abused, and there are those who were abused and have these attractions but the abuse played no relevant role,...but because these situations are true, it doesn't mean that there are not some individuals who may have homosexual attractions because of the abuse specfically,...but it is kinda hard to tell, one of those not so easily quantifiable things,.....i like to think that since everyone is unique its not reasonable to think that all attractions are equal in intensity and depth, and point of origin,...and so they may come from many different sources or combinations of sources, which will pan out differently for each person....its much more complex than saying....becaused i was abused, I'm gay....that would be a gross over-simplification of whats really going on.

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#309303 - 11/04/09 03:43 PM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: myboyhoodfears]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
I don't struggle with being gay or same sex attraction. For me it is masturbation and porn. The last time I was with my perp he forced me too stand next to him and watch him masturbate into the toilet. Then he took me home. For me standing there was one of the most traumatic,repulsive and sexually exciting experiences of my life. And it ingrained or imprinted a deep and lasting emotional impact on me. Thu I didn't understand what it is was he actually doing or why at the age of ten. I did from that time have deep fascinate in his physical actions of masturbation and climaxing.
As I learn to masturbate and to be able to climax it became a compulsion of release of stress or unhappiness. when Life became overwhelming for me I escape it thru masturbating till I climaxed. which has always provide temporary relief.
When I first found a picture of a naked women at the age of 11 that overwhelming feelings of fascination,escitment, and repulsion returned with all the force of that day in Mr Candales bathroom. Porn is one of the most sexually exciting things for me. But it causes me too become stuck in a very destructive behavior pattern.
Which I believed I learned that day at the age of 10. By the way of his behavior being inprinted in my mind.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#309482 - 11/05/09 10:59 PM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: michael banks]
brother2none Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 265
Loc: Undisclosed
Originally Posted By: michael banks

As I learn to masturbate and to be able to climax it became a compulsion of release of stress or unhappiness. when Life became overwhelming for me I escape it thru masturbating till I climaxed. which has always provide temporary relief.

The release of stress from climax cannot be underestimated. I feel that I return to masturbating and the climax as one of the most effective ways I have known for reducing the stress I feel. Now that I understand that better, I can adapt my behavior. I'm still struggling with it though. Good topic. Thanks.


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#309585 - 11/07/09 02:09 AM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: brother2none]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
I'll second that Brother2none.

DJ, as far as that article, Joe Kort has it specifically on his website under a section called "Strait Guise" which is about men who have sex with men but are not homosexual (this was very difficult for me to understand at first, but I won't go into that). Rather than say "Sexual abuse made you gay" the article is a resource for trying to understand why a man who is straight but also endured sexual abuse might act out with other men.

In my case I never got sexual with another man, but through masturbation, fantasies accompanying masturbation, and porn, I consider myself to have acted out quite a bit. The difference was I didn't know what to make of it all, so I kept it in my head. Whenever I read that part of that article about fantasizing about re-enacting your abuse (in any capacity) as a mechanism to understand and control what happened to you, I thought I was going to explode. It resonated so well, and I felt so relieved by it because it gave me something to work towards in therapy, and pursuing that did clear up a lot of that mental "acting out" that I was doing.

As far as Joe Kort, he wouldn't even think of putting his name in association with anything even CLOSE to "reparative" or "ex-gay" therapy. As I understand it, before he ever investigated sexual abuse, he specialized in helping gay men positively accept themselves and come out and also does couples counseling. He himself is a gay man, and I doubt very much that he would ever post anything suggesting that gayness was anything wrong or anything that could be "cured" or made to go away by sitting on a couch and talking it out.


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#309609 - 11/07/09 01:30 PM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: AndyS87]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Guys, ok.

I totally misunderstood what Joe Kort is saying.

My bad. I am glad I am wrong. I am slow.

You all have clearly put me in my place.

DJ



Edited by DJsport (11/07/09 05:51 PM)
_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#310354 - 11/14/09 03:58 AM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: DJsport]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
I have seen this site before and like many of you found it to be almost a revelation of sorts. I still don't know if I am Strait or Bi, but it at least put and end to my extremely self destructive acting out patterns that I was experience and had no clue as to why. With this new resource and info and later confirmation of its truth value from my T, I was able to make some huge strides and educate myself as to my behaviors origins. That to me was/is amazing, Huge progress!

As to wether I am Bi or Strait, I at least believe/know now that the abuse defiantly affected this. To what degree I still am trying to figure that out, but I know that it played a role on me feeling this way. This is still very confusing but at least I understand why and for that knowledge, I am very thankful!

Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#310533 - 11/15/09 07:30 PM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: Logan]
wgwarch Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 14
Loc: southeast Michigan
Logan,
I'm still coming to terms with this idea of whether I'm straight, bi or gay. The ideas in this thread of postings is a new thought for me, and I'm not sure how to deal with it yet. The idea that I often look at internet porn, mostly of men, to take control of a homosexual act early in my childhood until my teens, kind of freaks me out.
The most significant person in my life, the person I still believe was the "love of my life," was a man. I still married a woman and have lived a "straight" life for quite a while. I took my wedding vows seriously, and I've remained "faithful," in the sense that I have not had a sexual relationship with another person during my marriage. It has been difficult, extremely difficult at times.
I am lost on the labels of straight, bi, gay. Can't I just love someone and have them love me back, unconditionally, and have sex be a part of us, not the part that defines us and our relationship? I certainly hope so.

Good topic.

Bill


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#314873 - 12/17/09 07:29 AM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: Sans Logos]
learning2remember Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 261
Loc: Europe
The lines you share from the article have been very, very helpful for me.

I recently somehow remembered more details of my abuse, and found the details arousing in a way that troubled me and made me feel sick.

I came here for the first time in years, hoping to find in answer, and in your post--in the lines from the article, I found something that made sense to me in a healing way.

It helps to know that I am not alone, and that I am not sick.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

_________________________
"This is not my shame, this is their shame." Mona Eltahawy

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#314874 - 12/17/09 07:31 AM Re: homosexual imprinting [Re: learning2remember]
learning2remember Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 261
Loc: Europe
My previous words are to all of you who contribute here, but it is the sans logos mention of the article that I am referring to.

Thanks again, everybody, for the help.

_________________________
"This is not my shame, this is their shame." Mona Eltahawy

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