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#30884 - 11/06/03 07:02 AM Why?
Nathan LaChine Offline
Webmaster
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 5381
Loc: Washington State
Brothers,

As I look back on my life I seem to only see how I failed people. For those that don't know I used to work as an Advocate. I have also worked as a CASA. I only seem to see where I failed in people's lives. I wish to learn how to be a better Advocate so I would like to post this. I am working on starting a flyer about male victims and ways to reach them. What I am paining on doing is printing/emailing/posting on my website and Advocate sites. I want to give people a better understanding of why male victims don't speak out about their abuse. How we all stereotype males, how and why males remain the silent victims.

I would like to know what everyone's thoughts and ideas are on this topic. I feel a sense of great knowledge on this topic from everyone here. This site has a wide range of people on it. I want to make my writing as complete and accurate as possible. So please please post any thoughts or ideas that you have.

Lots of love, Nathan


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#30885 - 11/06/03 08:15 AM Re: Why?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Nathan this is a good idea.


Why????

For me it was the shame, self loathing and the fear of rejection by society that kept me from speaking out.
Self loathing because I was 16 and thought I could prevent it. Self loathing because some of if felt good. I mean I was sexually aroused by it.

Shame because I let it go on for nearly 9 months and because I became a male prostitute for 3 years because of it. Self Loathing there too. Additionally the shame of re-enacting my abuse over the years with total strangers.

Finally FEAR of REJECTION. I think that this is the biggest one of all. I felt that if my peers or friends or family knew they would reject me as a human being and I would be totally an outcast and my only purpose would be to satisfy the perverted fantasies of some really sick men. I think that the fear over the years nearly tore me apart and led me to the edge of sanity and death on several occasions.

Hope this helps you. This is from the perspective of a 62 year old (nearly 63) and also reflects the standards in place as a teenager in the late 50's.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#30886 - 11/06/03 09:15 AM Re: Why?
Nathan LaChine Offline
Webmaster
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 5381
Loc: Washington State
MIke,

It takes alot of strength to pull from our past abuse in hopes that it will help someone. I know for my self their was alot of fear. Fear of what people might think of me. "He had sex with a man, he must be gay." Or "he got a hardon so he enjoyed it." I have sadly heard these phrased in my mind. I know that some people think this way and I was afraid. Afraid that people would know how weak I am (was), that I could not stop it.

Society seems to over look the facts about SA on male victims. I have heard from several T's that I use to work with that SA effects males just the same as females. I must whole heartily disagree with that statement. Yes SA does have some of the same effects on both male and female victims. But on males there are totally different views from society. Men are supposed to be stronger so how could they have been abuse. The am I gay cause I am gay, or because of the abuse. Or I got a hardon so I must have enjoyed it. etc......

I guess that bring these issues or worried up now has helped me. I have learned a great deal from reviewing my past. I always say, "I want to save the world." If I can help just one person then I have saved the world for one person. I am looking forward to seeing what the rest of my brothers have to say on this topic.

Lots of love, Nathan


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#30887 - 11/06/03 10:27 AM Re: Why?
Joey G. Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 28
Loc: FL
Nathan, my response would be pretty much the same as Mike Church's. \:\(


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#30888 - 11/06/03 03:12 PM Re: Why?
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
Why?

I wish that I knew the answer. As Jeff said I've got a million of them and they all seemed right at the time. Part of the confusion is that when the abuse happened, in my case when I was 11-13 years old, I really trusted the guy who did it. He was like a big brother, he was someone that I could talk to, he was someone that I could confide in. I just couldn't admit to myself that I had been so thoroughly fooled. I thought that there must have been something that I did, the way I acted, something that I said that caused him to do it. I just could not accept the fact that I had been used. Yes, I enjoyed parts of it. I liked the attention. I liked the feelings of arousal and ejaculation. But the shame and self hatred afterward were overwhelming. In the late 50's when the abuse occurred the worst thing that you could call one of your male peers was 'fag' or 'queer'. It was damning. For me to think of myself in these terms because of what had happened was devastating to me. The fact that I let him do it more than once was proof to me that I was utterly defective and worthless. I knew that my whole life was a fraud from then on.

I didn't tell anyone about it, anyone at all, for over 38 years. In that time I re-enacted the abuse so many times and in so many ways, always numbing out, always feeling worthless afterwards. I was so afraid that someone would find out, that they would hate me, that I would lose everyone I loved. I finally reached the breaking point. I had to talk to someone about it. I finally did on my 50th birthday. That was about six years ago next month. It was never easy but it sure was worth doing.

I hope that gives you some insight Nathan. I don't know to this day why it took so long for me to start to deal with it. I envy those younger guys here who are facing the abuse now and starting to heal. I know that I wasn't willing to back then.

Take good care of yourself. You can't heal the entire world, you can't be responsible for anyone's healing but your own.

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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#30889 - 11/06/03 06:45 PM Re: Why?
Clark Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 3
Loc: PA
can someone help me I am 23 yrs. old and I was victim of sexual abuse by mother. it is starting to destroy my life. I want to heal but, the more I try the more I remember and the worse it gets for everyone around me. Can anyone help me?


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#30890 - 11/06/03 09:56 PM Re: Why?
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Clark,

It is terrible that your mother would abuse you. It is terrible that any adult would abuse any child. Many of us did suffer that way, though, and we help one another through mutual support here.

Look at the posts here. It's shameful to the perps, (not to us, always the shame belongs to the perps) that there are so many of us who have been abused. We are turning our numbers to our advantage by helping each other.

You have taken a big step by coming here to write about what happened to you. The most important step is that first one.

Do you have a therapist? I know that I would not be able to deal with the effects the rapes had in my life if I were not working with a good therapist now. Your profile says, "PA." You can look up the local rape crisis centers from the listings online at RAINN and find something local to you. If you're in Wyoming Valley, the ladies who led the "Blowing In The Wind" workshop at our recent conference are in Wilkes Barre, at the Victims\' Resource Center . Hazel and Tammi were very helpful to me.

I hope you recognize that you are not alone in this struggle, and you did nothing wrong. You did not deserve to be abused, but now you deserve to heal.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#30891 - 11/06/03 10:32 PM Re: Why?
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Nathan, here is some reasons I got from the men here:

• I knew I would not be believed
• I was afraid for my life
• My mother and father assaulted me, who was I to tell
• I did tell and was sent home to receive a severe beating
• I was told not to tell “or else”
• I was told I would be accused of starting it
• I was told it was me, or my little brother would get it
• I was told it was me, or my sister would get it
• I did not know who to tell
• He told me this is the special way guys show they love each other
• I didn’t know it was wrong at first
• I was afraid I would be punished
• I liked it at first, the oral part, then, when I didn’t like it, I was afraid I would be blamed for all of it
• I did not tell because I was certain that no one in the whole world had had that done to them—just dogs do that. It was funny watching the dogs. It was not funny when it was done to me.
• It was the adults who made the rules. What would telling have to do with it?
• I did tell and then was told I was a very bad boy for saying such an awful thing about such a good man
• I was afraid of rejection by my friends
• I was afraid of being teased
• I told, and nothing happened, except older boys started to do the same ”kind of games.”

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#30892 - 11/07/03 12:32 AM Re: Why?
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
Nathan,

Another member said the following about his rape:

I told my parents, and they said nothing and did nothing.

I told the police, and they said nothing and did nothing.


Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#30893 - 11/07/03 06:09 AM Re: Why?
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
There is so much, to answer that question. Answers may trigger.


Why did I not tell then? He threaten me, my life. He threaten my mom, my gran, and he tell me that bad, shit, lying little boys like me, I will be taken away of my home, put away in orphan home. They are getting some better, but orphanage in Russia, it was not good place then. He tell me that my mother is beautiful woman, and perhaps she would like 'company' of him. He tell me that noone will ever believe me, that I am stupid, basterd faggot boy. The one time I try tell someone of him, it is member of sport federation. I think I am being brave, smart, and it is friend of him. Can not say what happen of that, can not say that here, not now.

Why do I not tell now? Why do I not tell of what he did then, why do I not tell of what he did just few months ago when I confront him? Because it is shame, embarrassing at me. Because now I am adult, and I let it happen again, I let him hurt me, even if it is not same way. I am embarrased because now I am at least taller of him, I should be big enough, strong enough to make it not happen and I fail of it. Because it will still be so hard at my mom and family if I speak of it in public. Because I still have too much trouble in emotion of all this, emotion of what he did at me, of what father did, of how I still feel so bad on myself of it all. I can tell of it here because no one here knows me in 'real life', no one here knows my family, no one knows him, the situation. But I can not still even face it, to speak fully of it in therapy, or with closest friend in 'real life', in person. I can not do that even, how is it I can tell of him now? Or of father, or even of what my mom maybe did that is wrong?

I am sorry, am sick and not feeling so good and tired right now, feel it is all over me again.

leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#30894 - 11/07/03 09:51 AM Re: Why?
StrangerInAStrangeLand Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/03
Posts: 33
Loc: Puyallup, WA
Becuase it's too much for them to deal with. Because they don't want to talk about that stuff.
Because they want you to get over it.
Because no one understands my pain.
Because they won't want to be around me.
Because I did tell, but no one wants to admit that it actually happened.


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#30895 - 11/07/03 03:55 PM Re: Why?
ecb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 205
"Why didn't I tell?" is a question I sometimes ask myself a lot. The only answers I've come up with so far, have largely been mirrored here.

At first, I didn't know to. I had no idea that what was going on was wrong. It didn't SEEM right, but I looked up to him like a big brother and I guess I didn't think he'd do anything to hurt me.

Years later, when it finally sunk in how wrong it really was, I was just confused and ashamed. I couldn't let anyone know that I had ever done such things or how sick I was or else they would never have anything to do with me, and who could blame them?

The real ass kicker is I've since found out that I was abused even earlier (though the memories are practically non-existant) and evidently I *did* tell my mom then and she got me right out of there. So clearly I would have been believed the second time, if I had told.

Hope that this answer has helped Nathan.

Eric


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#30896 - 11/07/03 06:06 PM Re: Why?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Nathan
Quote:
I want to give people a better understanding of why male victims don't speak out about their abuse. How we all stereotype males, how and why males remain the silent victims.
I think it was the author Alistair Maclean who wrote the novel "Fear is the Key" - and the title says it all, fear.

If I start at the beginning when the first abuser slid his hand inside my trousers while the whole school was sat watching a movie, there was fear.
Fear that if I created any kind of disturbance then I would be in trouble, and all he had to do was deny everything and the disturbance was my fault. I feared that nobody would believe me. He wins.

He then escalated the abuse to me masturbating him, another fear, the fear of being branded a "homo" ensured my silence.

Further escalation to anal sex, just the same fears.

Bringing his mate along to join in, same deal.

I did show some resistance, and got gang raped and beaten by all his mates. That proved to me ( at that time ) that there was yet another kind of fear, the fear of further violence. So I added that to the list.

The headmaster found out, and didn't believe me - in fact I was the one who was punished.
I then knew the fear of not being belived was true, I wasn't believed. My silence was guaranteed, and remained so for 31 years.

I lived with all these fears, the irrational fear of being homosexual ( although I have never been really homophobic towards others who were gay )

The fear of not being believed was the greatest one for me, and was only overcome by a greater fear.
At the age of 45 or 46 I was in a terrible state, acting out , depressed and mildly suicidal.

And I think that after a particularly risky and unpleasant acting out episode the genuine fear of losing everything joined my list - I believed I would lose the people I loved, my home, my work, my friends and family - and possibly my life; that fear became so great that I was forced to act and tell someone that I had "some problems"

I never intended to tell anyone the whole story, all I planned to do was tell my wife about my childhood and hope that it was enough to get me out of trouble. But we all know that didn't work !

I bet all you guys know this quote -
"Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
Franklin D Roosevelt. 1933

He speaks for me.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#30897 - 11/07/03 07:56 PM Re: Why?
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Nathan,

Everyone here told you already, but as to why I didn't, well, it was a combination of everything.

When my middle-school counselor first hit on me, I didn't know what to do. What does an 11 year old do when an adult comes on to him and makes out with him on a couch? Later on, he conned me into believeing he loved me and I loved him. Finally, he got scared, I guess, and became abusive, sadistic, and downright violent.

I was sucked into it and didn't know how to get out. He manipulated me into loving him, and made me feel like no one else would. That was enough to keep me controlled through the "I-know-it's-wrong" stage. Later on, when it got really scary, I didn't know how to get out. I thought my Mom would hate me, my Dad would literally kill me, and all my friends would know I was a faggot, whatever that's supposed to mean. When he tortured me and tried to kill me (twice!), that scared me enough to repress.

I don't know if that answers your question. I'm still trying to puzzle out if it answers all of mine.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#30898 - 11/07/03 10:51 PM Re: Why?
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
Why didn't I tell anybody about the SA? humm.

My memories of perp #1 end with him very angry and what appeared to be getting violent, because I wouldn't let him take the elastic band of my underwear of me. A few months of memories are gone after that and resume with me beginning therapy, I which I never said a word, but kept drawing a picture of his face each and every visit. I don't know why I didn't tell, most likely fear.

When it started over again with #2, wasn't this the way men treat little boys. This is what my history shown. I figure I didn't tell mostly because of shame.

#3 was definately intimidation, and lead me into severe depression. That is why I didn't say anything about her, intimidation and depression.

I didn't tell anybody about #4 because of shame. She was younger than me and would SA me in the morning while I was sleeping. I would have to fight her off me every morning, and this was during the deep depression set off by #4.

#5 was a different beast all together. He was a doctor, a specialist I was seeing, shortly after coming out of the depression. Who would believe me over a reputable doctor? When I did tell of this, It was used as a joke.

Why I didn't tell anyone was combinations of fear, intimidation, lack of emotional stability, shame, feeling that I wouldn't be believed, and ridicule. And you can add on that my mom, a woman I admire and adore, has an extreme hatred towards homosexuals. And having been SA by three different males, that would make me gay. The thing my mom hated and the hate would spill upon me, and I need her love.

Bill

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#30899 - 11/08/03 08:59 PM Re: Why?
Ron_dup1 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 87
Loc: Arkansas
This question is an interesting one for me.
At first I had no idea that it was wrong. He told me it was right, good, loving, and it felt that way to a lonely 9-13 year old boy longing to be loved and cared for. So I never even thought that I should tell anyone and he asked me not to, so why would I betray the only one who loved me?
Then I began to hear the kids at school make gay jokes and describe the very things we were doing and talk about them being gross or only done by "faggots". I sure was not going to tell then!!!
Then at age 13 as I was entering puberty and being very arroused by the things he was doing to and with me, that is when my mom caught us together!
Her reaction was to slam the door and scream through it that I was a faggot and no son of her's was going to be a faggot. That night my father came home late and through his friend (my perp) out of our house. He came in to tell me that what I'd done was wrong and disgusting. I should NEVER do anything like that again and I should never tell anyone about it. He said others would hate me and make fun of me if they knew. I knew he was right from listening to the kids at school. So from that night to today we have never talked about it again.
I was 22 and in college before I ever talked about it to another person and that was a school counselor.
I still find it almost impossible to talk about.
Ron


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#30900 - 11/09/03 01:00 AM Re: Why?
bowman Offline
Member

Registered: 04/19/03
Posts: 72
My father and another started when I was young I forgot everything. After that when I was nine it literally didn't occur to me that there was such a thing as asking for help. Even though I had forgotten the earlier abuse, I had apparently learned the lesson from it that I was helpless, that adults could not be trusted. My method of survival was to adapt to whatever happened and ignore the bad stuff. Right now my main focus is to figure out what I am unhappy with in my life and make the plans to change it. In this way I constantly remind myself that my life is mine to live (and my responsibility.)


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#30901 - 11/09/03 02:20 PM Re: Why?
FlyWM Offline
Member

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Michigan
Why didn't I tell? Such a difficult question to answer, and those answers are long, difficult and involved. But I will try to give answers in "Reader's Digest version." These answers may be a trigger, so proceed with caution.

I guess, is some shame, they threatned my life, threatned my friends, and saidno one would believe a dirty little faggot who's own father can't even stand him. And it was so engrained in my head that it was my fault, that I asked for it, that I wanted it, was told that much. I remembering tell a friend from team once about coach, and that I may go to police, and after that he and most of team cornered me and my best friend in locker room, they forced me to watch as they beat my best friend to death, and then beat me nearly to death and took turns.....r**ing me, so after that never even considered telling anyone again.

I still don't tell anyone because of shame, and because I still feel so bad and dirty and wrong, and am still scared, my coach is still around, in fact couple of months ago, he hurt me really bad, I had to spend couple of months in hospital, and I am ashamed of that, I about the same size as him, I am younger and stronger, I should have been ablt to stop him. So shame is the driving force behind the silence, shame and fear, perhaps one day that fear and shame will start to subside, but it hasn't begun to dissapate yet.

scott

_________________________
Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible in not a declaration, it's a dare.

--Adidas

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#30902 - 11/10/03 02:19 AM Re: Why?
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
Scott,

Is it possible for you to move to a different area far away from your coach? This man has committed murder. You need to get away from him.

Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#30903 - 11/10/03 10:26 AM Re: Why?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Scott. Do not let that son-of-a-bitch continue to control you. Sure you are younger and stronger but the past is rearing up to prevent you from responding. You are not weak anymore Scott and there is an army of brothers here to ensure that you are never alone again.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#30904 - 11/10/03 10:32 AM Re: Why?
Pollyanna Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 211
Loc: Missouri
Y'know, this has been a real eye-opener for me. I really had no idea that there were so many people with evil as the very basis for their existence. It's incomprehensible to me how and why anyone could do this stuff to another human being, especially a child.

These people are walking the streets? They're laughing and living and leaving a trail of broken people who struggle just to survive? HOW???? How do they sleep at night?

Scott, children are all innocent and beautiful. There was--IS--nothing dirty or shameful about you. I know it only takes one "aw sh--" to wipe out 1000 "attaboys". Around here, it's only a matter of time before we reach the place in you that can believe the good positive things that are inside you--the things that are TRUE. \:D

"Truth is things as they REALLY are". The truth is, you are beautiful, you are lovable, you are LOVED, you are bright and shiny, you are worth it. THEY LIED!!! You WILL succeed!

These "people" (if you can call them that) who did these things to you hold you "hostage" for some weird perverted quirk of THEIRS. YOU never were the problem, and you're not the problem now. I know sometimes it's almost impossible to get up the nerve to "tell", but it seems like it would be a great "revenge" on the people who think they're holding this atrocity over your head. (I'm not advocating revenge, I just couldn't think of a more liberating word!) Everyone here believes YOU, not them.

I hope that you will listen to the people like Dave (Lloydy), and Mikey (Church), and the others who are succeeding and doing really well. They are proof that it can be overcome. You can do it too! The really awesome thing is, they are right here willing to hold your hand and walk you through. It can't get any better than that!!!

I wish you peace. Real peace.

Lynn

_________________________
"Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up."

– Anne Lamott

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