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#304384 - 09/27/09 12:12 PM Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 982
Loc: HULBERT OK
On Friday Poland passed a law. That requires Chemical Castration of podophiles that have molested children under the age of 15.
This is to be done before a pedophile can be reliesed from prison. They believe that this will reduce the number of repete offinders.
It sounds to me like The Polish Government is on to a good idea. I hope that other governments take up this.
A lot of Human rights groups are protesting this . Where were they when thease perverts were molesting children

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MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#304387 - 09/27/09 01:06 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: OKIE MIKE]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
Hi Mike,

I agree with you in principal. Whether it can pass muster is another story.

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#304395 - 09/27/09 02:40 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: jls]
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
This is a bad law. It's just an extension of vengeful punishment, which is a human rights violation. It denies the man (presumably this law would never be applied to female pedophiles) the ability to be sexually active. No state has the right to do that. The law is just a lazy way of avoiding addressing the actual problem. The majority of sex offenders, male and female, are never reported and so never caught, so this does next to nothing in terms of actually preventing more abuse. It'd be better for Poland to take the money and treat the offenders and then use some of the money to raise awareness about sexual violence.

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#304396 - 09/27/09 02:48 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: jacobtk]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
While I believe all offenders need to fend for themselves and I will not have anything to do with an offender, I know treatment will be tough for an offender - I think this law is a violation of human rights.

I know they violated the human rights of their victims and for that I almost wanted to say do whatever is necessary but this is too extreme in my opinion.

DJ

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#304402 - 09/27/09 03:29 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: DJsport]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
i love this law...snip snip snip....think twice, before you unzip.



Edited by myboyhoodfears (09/27/09 03:43 PM)
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#304405 - 09/27/09 03:49 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: myboyhoodfears]
InsideTheWall Offline


Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 289
Fuck offenders and their human rights. Final Solution those perverts and be done with it.



Edited by Anonymous (09/27/09 03:50 PM)

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#304414 - 09/27/09 04:55 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: InsideTheWall]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2469
Loc: UK
I don't really agree with this law, how about if somebody is wrongfully convicted? then castrated, then found to be innoccent. I guess that is a similar arguement to the death penalty.

More importantly. Abuse isn't all about sexual gratification- it is about POWER. Some people may disagree but in my mind it is about power and control, and of course then sexual gratification. But the way we were treated, the way abusers like to humiliate their victims, make them do unspeakable things, to play the game with them, to groom them, this isn't sexual gratification, this is about sadistic power! Sure there is an aspect in it where they obtain sexual gratifiaction, but a man can obtain the same sexual gratification from an age appropriate partner, so it is the differences that drive the abuser. Castration takes away sexual urges, perhaps, but not the urge that abusers have, the urge to dominate a defenceless innoccent little child.

Do you think castration is a good deterrent? probably, but how much more effective would it be as a deterrent than the current situation where on being found out they become hated and rejected by all? abusers these days must know that if they get caught their lives will be ruined, don't they? i mean sure castration would make them think twice, but would it really make them reconsider?

So back to the question of what makes you think that castration will stop an abuser? i think it was Ken Singer, although my memory fades, that quoted a case where an abuser was chemically castrated and then went onto abuse more children. Demonstrating my point.

Castration as a preventative measure? i think not, a vengeful punishment, sure. Should they be treated like humans instead of like animals, even though they treated us like animals? well i for one do not want to do what the abuser did to me and treat a human as an animal. I'm not going to give in to the abusers power and become like they are.

Lewis

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I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#304417 - 09/27/09 05:18 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: king tut]
Bewlayb1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 243
Loc: NYC
At first, I liked the idea. It will definitely save children, though how many is subject to debate. But, like Lewis, I also wondered what if an innocent man was convicted. As rare as that scenario might be, I'm sure it happens. Plus, mutilating someone in this way brings us moral, decent people to the level of the monsters we're punishing. I wish I could think of a better solution. Regardless, like using the death penalty on murderers, I vaguely object, yet find it hard to defend the rights of worthless pieces of garbage. Say, if it was put to a public vote, I wouldn't vote for it. But I wouldn't cast my ballot against it either.


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#304422 - 09/27/09 06:05 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: Bewlayb1]
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
there is not real answer and I am Polish

if it helps keep kids from being hurt it is a good thing

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#304429 - 09/27/09 08:18 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: michael Joseph]
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 982
Loc: HULBERT OK
I do not concider castrateing a Pedophile any diffrent than Castrateing a Pig. Because I do not concider any one that would harm a child as Human

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"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#304463 - 09/28/09 12:34 AM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: OKIE MIKE]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2590
This is about CHEMICAL castration yes?? Not physical removal of the testicles.

If it were about physical removal, I'd say it's a complete waste of time. Ever seen a male animal who was castrated too late? They're still horny as hell and can still perform. Humans are no different. I've read numerous articles on it and many men who have been physically castrated for one reason or another are still able to get an erection and have sex.

BUT this is about CHEMICAL castration. IE chemicals keep him from being able to get an erection... so as long as he's taking his drugs he can't perform.... so unless this is regularly monitored or administered by a doctor on a regular basis, the person can just not take the meds.

Either way, it is a waste of time, as the problem is not about his ability to have sex. It's about his desire to force that sex on a child. I talked online to a fellow once he shared that he and his sister were sexually abused by a man who had NO testicles. The issue wasn't sex and getting off. It was about his power and control over those kids.

Saying castrate all pedo's really is no different then saying take away of violent video games/music/movies and people won't kill each other any more........... The nuts ain't the problem just like violent entertainment isn't the problem. If the entertainment choice was the problem they why have people been killing each other long before TV/games etc came along???

There are deeper issues that drive people. This is just another example of people pointing the blame somewhere rather than dealing with those deeper issues.


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#304466 - 09/28/09 01:21 AM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: JustScott]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
nobody wants to deal with the core social issues....so we are left with these tactics...i see it this way....if you decide to committ these crimes you now own and accept the consiqences...no matter how harsh....because no one is beating anyone over the head to molest children....its completely volitional, with prior knowledge of the wrongfullness of the acts and the possible consiquences...and so they deserve whatever sentence is handed to them....to bad, so sad.....plus it makes a statement to abusers that society will not tolerate this highly offensive behavior,...and it doesnt matter if this law actually does much to address the broader social issues,..so what...there are other laws that can deal with social issues...this isnt a "solve all CSA issues with one law" kinda world.

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#304483 - 09/28/09 09:22 AM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: myboyhoodfears]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
Good idea. Anyone accused of pedophaelia or hebephaelia should be stripped of their human/natural right of reproduction.

And I hope like hell YOU get accused of it, too. Then YOU will be stripped of the same right. Then what? Complain about how you were WRONGFULLY prosecuted? But....but.....if YOU are wrongfully accused, are you the only one?

I recall this very well as I have been accused of it, though never formally. I was investigated once, maybe twice, and every time it turned out it never happened. But I also know of others that have been wrongfully prosecuted.

Just because you were hurt doesn't mean that everyone accused of hurting others actually did it. No one has the right to take such an action.

And for anyone to say it's right to punish everyone convicted without concern for IF they really did it or not, is acting out of maliciousness, not true justice.

Why don't we bash them in the head with a hammer instead? No, no. Not the head, their nuts and dick! Let's beat on their nuts and dick with a hammer until they are bloody and passed out from the pain! That's a good idea! And then if it turns out they really didn't do it, what then? What do you suggest we do then? Apologize? If so, then you have no right to pursue your perps as an apology is sufficient.

Perhaps you don't see the logic here. Consider that maybe you should only do to others what you would expect to be done to you in the same situation. Let's accuse you of such a horrendous crime, and then see how accepting you are of you getting chemically castrated. It's fine and just, IF you did it. But what if you didn't? How fine and just is that?


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#304490 - 09/28/09 09:48 AM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: LilacLouie]
JohnF Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/09
Posts: 26
Loc: TX
If the goal is vengence, this law will work just fine. If the goal if prevention of recidivism, its a waste of time and money. It merely removes one method from the menu of molestation and abuse.


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#304496 - 09/28/09 10:07 AM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: king tut]
jls Offline


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 1142
You put it best when you said that abuse isn't about sex, it is about power. I'm also of the opinion that deterrents don't work with most crimes, excluding ones with a direct objective, like murdering for money or corporate crime, since the majority of violent offenders, sex offenders or not, are motivated by something inside themselves rather than an external goal, if this makes any sense. Finally there is the aspect of accepting accountabilty, which here in Canada is working quite well. We have something called "Circles of Accountability" for sex offenders where they meet regularly as part of their parole conditions to talk about their feelings and urges to to re-offend, which works surprisingly well with concern to the rate of recidivism. Anyways I am in no way excusing sex offender's behaviour or am I making an argument to let them off the hook. On the contrary, for me it is about healing and I can't say that I deserve it more than anyone else, despite what they've done, providing that they take into account what they've done to their victims first and foremmost since accountability is at the centre of what I'm arguing for. Just my thoughts. JS

_________________________
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#304506 - 09/28/09 11:15 AM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: jls]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
If I may, I'd like to reframe the debate which is starting to go a bit all over the place.

Simple solutions to complex problems don't work

"Feel good" solutions for social problems which have no basis in research or science are mostly for political consideration and it is a waste of time to talk about civil liberties or "what if (you convicted the wrong guy)". While there is room for lively debate, unless the debate is focused on evidenced based research, you are just recycling OPINION.

For example, many probation and parole offices have been, for the past few years, forbidding convicted sex offenders from taking their children out on Halloween or answering the door for trick or treaters. If there is no non-offending partner to dispense the candy, they must darken the house and in some cases, post a sign that says "No Candy Here" or even "Stay Away- Registered Sex Offender Lives Here."

"Common sense" may say this is a good policy. However, when researchers looked at a decade or more of dates of reported sex crimes, October 31 was no more (and in many cases LESS) likely to find children being sexually abused on that particular date.

Classic case of a "feel good" policy that seems to have a good intent yet is based on nothing but someone's opinion.

I can go on and on and you can go back and forth here with opinions on castration, neighborhood notification, residency restrictions, etc. but bear in mind they are just opinions unless they have been thoroughly examined to determine effectiveness and hopefully are not counterproductive to the goal. (Check out the wisdom of parking dozens of sex offenders in Dade Co. FL under the Tuttle Bridge Causeway because the entire county is off limits to REGISTERED sex offenders, or the logic of making them sleep in cars at truck stops in Iowa because the entire state is restricted. Just ask a parole officer if his/her job is any easier keeping track of them or when they go missing with these kinds of policies.

Politicians can't be concerned about civil liberties for sex offenders and the trend has been for some time to be tougher than your opponent in the next election. Doesn't matter if the law is effective or not. If it makes people feel good or feel safer with no basis in reality, doesn't make a difference.

Opinions are fine, if you are not going to hassle people who don't need to be hassled, particularly if it becomes counterproductive.

In my OPINION, the Phillies are the best team in baseball. Don't confuse me with statistics and if they lose the playoffs or series, it may not change my beliefs anyway. ;-)


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#304527 - 09/28/09 02:20 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: OKIE MIKE]
WinningVictim Offline


Registered: 09/28/09
Posts: 3
I disagree with this law entirely!


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#304539 - 09/28/09 04:37 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: WinningVictim]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2469
Loc: UK
So Ken, for a little clarity from your post, are you saying you think the move was politically driven for public opinion but with no real basis in effective strategy?





Edited by king tut (09/28/09 04:41 PM)
Edit Reason: edited out the obvious
_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#304546 - 09/28/09 06:14 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: king tut]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
I read a book titled: Conversations With a Pedophile, by Amy Carter.

In that book, the pedophile participated in a voluntary trial program in prison in which they took the drug which chemically castrates them. It didn't have a permanent effect. The dose had to be taken weekly (if I remember correctly).

But that pedophile who was very intelligent and had no reason to lie, said that the drug very strongly limited his sexual attraction to children. I assume they tested it with pictures. He said he wanted to take it when he was released from prison. However the laws of the state of Texas wouldn't allow him to take it.

He had been guilty of abusing many boy scouts.

Allen

pufferfish




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#304582 - 09/28/09 10:35 PM Re: Poland passes law to castrate pedophiles [Re: LilacLouie]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
LL...the law only affects "convicted" criminals...not people who are accused but have not yet been proved guilty and convicted, thats why we have court systems...castrating the accused would be unreasonable right?

if castration is wrong because its vengeful then any sentence is wrong because even jail is vengeful...if a criminal murders someone and he gets life in prison instead of death...why is death vengeful but life in prison isnt?...nonsence, its all vengence...the only difference is the severity...which is a reflection of social views of the specific crime in question....some crimes are highly offensive, sexual abuse is one such crime and the severe sentencing is a reflection of that....get over it.



Edited by myboyhoodfears (09/28/09 10:47 PM)
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