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#304020 - 09/24/09 04:43 PM Re: Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt [Re: michael banks]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: michael banks
Melliferal,

I can remember being about this kids age maybe 10 because it was the next school year after I was abused sexually by my fourth grade teacher. But anyway, it was also about the time I began to become aware of the Vietnam war and all the people that were getting killed over there. And the discord that it was causing here at home and the antiwar movement that sprang up in protest of it. I didn't really understand all the ramifications of what was really happening just that it was important.
My mother took me to the shoe store because I need a new pair of sneakers. I chose a pair that had the peace sign all over them and my parents never said a word. I wore them to school and my teacher did make a comment but did not make any big deal about it either did the school administers. Why make such a big deal with this instance. Seems to me that we have a tendency to make mountains out of mole hills.


Do you think if this kid wore a shirt with the Republican Party logo on it, he would've gotten in trouble? No. A peace sign CAN be a statement or not, but it's not inflammatory either way. Do you honestly believe if you'd gone to school wearing a shirt that said "LBJ likes to kill little kids like me", nobody would've made a big deal out of it then? Something tells me they might've.

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#304026 - 09/24/09 05:09 PM Re: Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt [Re: melliferal]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
As I remember It was aprety hotly dispute issue at the time. And the peace sign was a part of the antiwar compaign. I also remember college kids being killed at Kent state and other places who were protesting the war.
But at least at my school they were not over reacting to what we were wearing.

Mike

_________________________
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"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

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#304049 - 09/24/09 07:08 PM Re: Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt [Re: michael banks]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Mel? I hear you, I really do. But..........ok.......what about parents that influence a child's view on God and Religion? Would you fault a parent that teaches their child to believe in God and that they want him/her to hold up certain moral/religious values, and to STAND behind them?

I would contend that it is the parent's RESPONSIBILITY to instill a sense of values and principles which you STAND BEHIND, like this kid did.

Would ANY of you guys have had the guts that this 11yo did to make that stand? I totally commend him.

And WHY is it ok for the (government) school to make "special time" to praise the glory of our country? What if you don't BELIEVE in the actions and principles that are guiding this country's leaders?

And by the way, what is wrong with dissent? I thought dissent was the highest form of patriotism. Or was Thomas Jefferson wrong about that as well?

LOL


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#304064 - 09/24/09 08:03 PM Re: Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt [Re: Hauser]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Denver, CO
I commend the kid for taking a stand.
I condemn the school for theirs.

Last year, before election time, a girl in a high school conducted an experiment. She wore a shirt that stated simply "McCain Girl" on it. She was verbally abused by other students and at least one teacher. No praise. The next day she wore a shirt that said "Obama Girl" on it, and was praised for it. She took notes both days and published her results. The teacher who insulted her the prior day felt a foot tall after finding out about the experiment.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


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#304065 - 09/24/09 08:05 PM Re: Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt [Re: Hauser]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: Hauser
Mel? I hear you, I really do. But..........ok.......what about parents that influence a child's view on God and Religion? Would you fault a parent that teaches their child to believe in God and that they want him/her to hold up certain moral/religious values, and to STAND behind them?

I would contend that it is the parent's RESPONSIBILITY to instill a sense of values and principles which you STAND BEHIND, like this kid did.

Would ANY of you guys have had the guts that this 11yo did to make that stand? I totally commend him.


No - you don't seem to be hearing what I said. I don't believe this kid was "standing" behind anything. He was OBEYING. There's a difference. And no, I don't have a problem with kids learning to obey a set of rules or values even if they're not yet cogent enough to know why they're supposed to be doing so, and even if those values are as specific as "hate Obama". Children are children because they need parents to guide them, after all. It's when parents take advantage of their callow children - when they take the step from guidance to exploitation - that I take issue with them.

And it's hardly limited to things like inflammatory t-shirts. A parent who enrolls and encourages his child in a sporting activity at a young age is doing a good thing - and so are the adults who decide to coach them. Sports teach a kid about friendly competition, teamwork, and (hopefully) how to be a class act no matter what happens. It's all well and good until the adults - parents or coaches - turn into these people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_8Cn6jw_5I

In those cases, something happened. Somewhere along the line, the point behind the kid's involvement in the sport shifted from the kid's growth and development to something else. It happens when they stop thinking of their children as children, and start having visions of them being star athletes.

That kid's parents sending him to elementary school in a shirt that says "Obama is a terrorist's best friend" is a stunt; it's reprehensible, and in my opinion is the "academic" equivalent, as it were, of being the loud and vulgar mother on the bleachers that everybody feels embarrassed to be around. They got their kid "interested" in how evil politicians are, made him feel excited and hyped because he was part of something big apparently, and at some point forgot that he was just a kid who can't possibly understand the subtle nuances of logic underlying exactly why this or that policy of Obama is bad for the country. And even if he was one of the "smart ones" - who do you think benefitted from his statement? Oh, it goes without saying that a lot of his classmates will absolutely love him now, but it goes equally without saying that the reason behind that has nothing to do with what was actually on his shirt.

Originally Posted By: Hauser
And WHY is it ok for the (government) school to make "special time" to praise the glory of our country? What if you don't BELIEVE in the actions and principles that are guiding this country's leaders?


It's not. If you don't believe in the direction the country is going or whatever, don't wear red-white-and-blue to "country day".

Originally Posted By: Hauser
And by the way, what is wrong with dissent? I thought dissent was the highest form of patriotism. Or was Thomas Jefferson wrong about that as well?


There's nothing wrong with dissent. That wasn't "dissent", it was contrarianism for its own sake, plain and simple. He was sent to that school for one reason: so that he would be made to take off the shirt and give his parents a reason to call the news station and bitch.



Edited by melliferal (09/24/09 08:06 PM)
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#304066 - 09/24/09 08:13 PM Re: Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt [Re: melliferal]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
So is this "indoctrination" acceptable?


This was filmed at the B. Bernice Young Elementary School in Burlington, NJ and uploaded on June 19, 2009.

Lyrics
========
Song 1:
Mm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said that all must lend a hand
To make this country strong again
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said we must be fair today
Equal work means equal pay
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said that we must take a stand
To make sure everyone gets a chance
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said red, yellow, black or white
All are equal in his sight
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

Yes!
Mmm, mmm, mm
Barack Hussein Obama

Song 2:
Hello, Mr. President we honor you today!
For all your great accomplishments, we all doth say "hooray!"

Hooray, Mr. President! You're number one!
The first black American to lead this great nation!

Hooray, Mr. President we honor your great plans
To make this country's economy number one again!

Hooray Mr. President, we're really proud of you!
And we stand for all Americans under the great Red, White, and Blue!

So continue ---- Mr. President we know you'll do the trick
So here's a hearty hip-hooray ----

Hip, hip hooray!
Hip, hip hooray!
Hip, hip hooray!



Edited by Barkabus (09/24/09 08:23 PM)
Edit Reason: Added lyrics

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#304071 - 09/24/09 08:40 PM Re: Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt [Re: Barkabus]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
No - Jesus Christ, no. That's like Ray Bradbury's worst nightmare. It sounds like a bad joke.

_________________________
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#304096 - 09/24/09 11:17 PM . [Re: melliferal]
GoFigure12 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 72
Loc: USA
.


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#304101 - 09/24/09 11:29 PM Re: Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt [Re: melliferal]
Jaifian Offline


Registered: 05/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: washington state, USA
I'm with melliferal on this. When I was that kids age both my parents were republicans and even though I didn't know what the word "republican" meant, I assumed they were right about most things because they were my parents.

I never was persuaded or influenced by them to wear any political messages to school, but I'm sure if they had, I probably would have done it and it would probably be something I would not be pleased about today since my political views are quite opposed to those my parents had.

Though I'm very much for freedom of speech I think schools should just have a rule against any words or symbols on clothing at all at school (with the exception of the unavoidable brand names/logos) so that kids and teachers can focus on education instead of controversies like this one.



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#304102 - 09/24/09 11:33 PM Re: Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt [Re: GoFigure12]
Clockwise Offline


Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 302
Loc: Pennsylvania
I am somewhat on the fence about this. On the one hand its so obvious that the t-shirt idea and the opinions about Obama are not the kids own, but his father's, and he's just regergitating them for the cameras. But on the other hand, as someone stated before, a person's 1st Amendment rights don't end at the school steps (contrary to what I was once told by one of my grade school teachers).

I do kind of feel upset for the boy because he's being pushed into a battle where he doesn't really have a hand. He is a child and by that virture he must be guided by the adults around him, but those adults (meaning his father and the school) want only for him to conform to their virws which isn't fair to him.

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