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#299501 - 08/16/09 09:55 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: dangal]
honey girl Offline
Member

Registered: 10/09/06
Posts: 245
Loc: Midwest US
WOW, Trish. That was perfectly said.
NY Daisy, I hope that what is being posted here will be helpful to you. It is truly crazy-making to be in your position, having someone reduce you to tears and then (only then) being willing to comfort you! I have been there too, in a previous relationship, and it was horrible.
Good luck to all of us, pulling ourselves out of abusive situations. No one deserves to be treated badly, no matter what. No excuses.
Jen, you DO rock. You go, girl!

Peace,
HG

_________________________
I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger, a million miles away from home.

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#299525 - 08/16/09 01:42 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: honey girl]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Yes HoneyGirl it is comforting to know you are all here. My H has asked for 6 months. He wants us both to seek out counseling for ourselves...I;m already seeing one. Marriage couneling does not work for this situation...it wants to equalize the blame, and gives my H ammunition to excuse his behavior. I know that I am not a perfect person...I get that...but even if I have the tv on at night while the man is sleeping next to me...does not mean I am abusive or deserve his abuse...he wants me to go to bed at the same time as him...but does not want the TV on...by turning the TV on I am disrespecting him as a man...and abusing him for not obeying his authority...as my marriage vows said to do. First off I did not use the word OBEY when I got married, second if you are snoring next to me after 5 minutes how can the tv be bothering you?

This is some of the crazy things I deal with on a daily basis...he feels since he is Not nasty everyday...the pain I feel is ridiculous. He is convinced I have borderline personality disorder...because MY moods are so erractic. My T was astonished that he would make such a diagnosis without a degree.

So he is going to go to therapy....He is very concerned that I am lying to my T....who should be concerned that he is? I sincerely doubt he will even make the appointment, will keep everyone posted on that. Tried to pin point a time frame to find one but he wouldn't say. I feel the only thing he will gain if he does go...is new ways to abuse me, since he is convinced I AM THE ABUSER!!!!

I was trying to talk to him about how I have tried to be there for him since his disclosure, telling him how hard it has been, since he refuses to every share an emotion or feeling, that I have read everything, joined groups, ect...and thought it might help if he let me in more...his answer was that I have done NOTHING!!!! Nothing to help him. So I asked again what did he need? he said nothing, for me to stop trying to pin everything on his abuse...and see how my BPD is the real issue here.

MY QUESTION IS THIS..... WHY IS IT THAT THE MAN IN OUR LIVES WANT REASSURANCE THAT THEY WERE NOT TO BLAME FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM AS A CHILD OR OTHERWISE(which I do not think they are)....BUT DO NOT WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ABUSE AND MISTREATMENT OF THEIR SPOUSEs, GIRLFRIENDS, AND CHILDREN? My H is convinced everyone in this house needs extensive therapy...except him. He can't see where he might have anything to do with it. When we did go to marriage counseling I told the guy I see what our disfunction is doing to the kids...and my H didn't think it had anything to do with it at all.

I've got 6 months...


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#299824 - 08/18/09 09:25 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Daisy, what happens after 6 months, more importantly, what has to happen for you after 6 months? He asked for that time, you've agreed to it. You are already doing what he suggested by seeing your own counselor. What if he doesn't? What if he does and nothing changes? What if you become a stronger, healthier person and he resents it? I know you can't see in to the future, but as John said earlier in this thread, a line in the sand needs to be drawn. If your husband suggested the time line and the course that should be taken, then he has an obligation to follow through with it, just as you do. Six months is a VERY short period of time in therapy, especially to one who seems to have dug in his heels and believes that he's not doing anything to contribute to the problems. I suggest you talk to your counselor very seriously about your line and then talk to your husband about it. If the two of you can't come to an agreement that you will do this and he will do that and both of you will really work toward a common goal then the marriage and the family will stagnate. I think you would agree it's not an acceptable ending. You want to do more than survive a bad marriage and I'm sure you want the same for your children; who doesn't?

Keep talking Daisy, until you figure out where your line is, not your breaking point.

ROCK ON.......Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#301887 - 09/06/09 03:38 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: Trish4850]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
hi all...here is my update. He says he has found a therapist. I do not know if this is true because I am not allowed to ask about it, it is none of my business because I told him that my T has been monitoring my sessions and has concluded that I DO NOT HAVE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER. This is the latest mental disorder my H has diagnosed me with. He then mocked me,"Of course he did Daisy, he probably told you that you were sane, right Daisy...did he tell you that you were sane and all your problems are from your Fcked up husband? Right is that how it went? how can you expect him to make a diagnosis when you sit there and lie. Have you told him how you sometimes can't sleep? have you told him when you get up your moods are all over the place? Have you told him all the things you have done to me? of course not, your a saint, your husband is the F'd up one. so what did he say Daisy?" at this point I am in shock( still not sure why it always surprises me)and tell him that I don't feel comfortable telling him what my T has said, so he said good remember that because whats good for the goose is good for the gander, do not ask me about mine.

So I had told him that I would like to have him at some point come in and give his take on us, so that my T can see things from your perspective. I asked him this BEFORE this rant. So this Monday I have a session and since he has off and I wouldn't have to rearrange my scheduled session to work around his availability. Well I got another 20 minute rant on how he was having a garage sale, and I am sabotaging his garage sale, and how he wanted to have it on Saturday but he decided to work part of the day and I had the audacity to be busy at our H.S. age son's first HS football game and he was starting center. He called me selfish, so I ask him what is more important the garage sale or you helping me fix this. He told me it wasn't the point, then proceeds to tell me he is not going to feed into my drama ( HUH????) are you coming or not? Yes I'll go. GOOD. then I walked away.

Today I told him I called my T to tell him he was coming, and that started a barage of more crap. He says he has had two sessions and in those two sessions of less than 2 full hours, he has filled her in on EVERYTHING, his abuse, our 20 yr marriage and the only problem she can see is that I am going through early menopause due to having cancer 11yrs ago, and those two things combined have made me emotionally and hormonally unbalanced, and messed up. He said that even though he has said a few mean things, it is by NO MEANS ABUSE, In FACT I SEEM MORE ABUSIVE THAN HIM, and for something to be truly abusive it must be done EVERYDAY. WHAT?????? My H was abused by his brother from 8 to 15, are you saying he sexually abused you everyday for 7 straight years? and you are fine. Sadly I only got this assessment after he started to tell me what she had said, then had said no, forget it, and I said please tell me, and he said tell me what your T says, and I said please again, and it went on till I was in tears begging him to tell me, and he said why do you want to know so bad, and my answer was because I WOULD GIVE ANYTHING FOR THIS TO BE ALL MY FAULT, I could work on fixing my problems, and lucky girl that I am....he delivered. IT IS ALL MY FAULT.

I find this all so disheartening. Sadly even though he knows our problems are based on personality disorders I have, he went back to Narcissistic personality disorder, because i'm very self centered(as of today) and on my hormonal imbalances, he still cannot give me an ounce of understanding or compassion. I asked him why he was not happy I did not have BPd and he said because he thinks that I manipulated my T and do really have it. I asked him why he is not trying to help me with my issues and his answer was because I keep accusing him of verbal and emotional abuse and that puts him on the defensive and he must protect himself from me and my drama. I offered him 6 months, I do not think we will make that, and honestly I think he has always wanted me to end it, so that once again he can be the victim, and not have to take any responsibility for the demise of it.

My T says I have anxiety, and I'm depressed. He did not say that his said anything was wrong with him. He manipulated me again. My T is going to hypnotize me, and also said that EMDR might work since I have been abused. Has anyone heard of EMDR being used for emotional and verbal abuse?

Does anyone out there agree that abuse must happen everyday to be abuse?


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#301911 - 09/06/09 10:22 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
Lou Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 100
Wikipedia: Abuse refers to the use or treatment of something (a person, item, substance, concept, idea or vocabulary) that is harmful.

I don't think there is anything in this definition that says this must happen every day to be abuse.

Abuse is abuse and is totally unacceptable. It comes in many different shapes and sizes, but is still unacceptable.

It seems to me that if one is doing anything, and I mean anything that puts another in harms way....that is abuse!

For the life of me, I will never understand why someone who one self has been abused and knows how that feels or felt, would want to turn around and abuse the very one that they supposedly love? Aren't we suppose to honor and love and protect those we love from harms way?

One's past is no excuse, abuse is abuse.

Please NYD, you deserve so much more!

Warm and safe hugs.
Lou


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#301923 - 09/06/09 12:35 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: Lou]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
Hi Daisy,

One thing that struck me about this most recent post is where you ask your husband why he is not helping you. His reply: because you are accusing him, etc.,...and he must protect himself. He is protecting himself. There. He said it. Whether it makes sense to you or not, that is what he's working with. He is not perceiving your attempts at helping the relationship as help. It does seem that you are taking what are considered normal steps to recovery, but he isn't in that place. And as we all know, only he can get himself to that place.

Someone earlier on mentioned "crazy making" behavior and it seems to me this is what your husband is doing. I remember reading this same term in (I think it was) "If the Man You Love Was Abused." You are trying to reason with him and figure out how to work together. He is trying to confound the situation because he doesn't know how to/doesn't want to deal with it.

There is another book I read called "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans. I used to try to reason with my husband until I saw these out of control conversations, accusations, insults, etc. for what they were: an attempt at control and nothing more. She advocated saying things like "STOP THIS RIGHT NOW." or "I SEE YOU. I SEE WHAT YOU ARE DOING." Engaging in meaningless conversations only makes them crazier.

Are you actually trying to determine whether your husband is correct when he says abuse must happen every day to be abusive? Daisy, this is not reasoning. This is him trying to control his life. Of course, I have no right to make such a definitive statement, since I'm not in the situation. But looking in from the outside, given what you describe, that is how it looks to me. What do you think?

Stay strong. Work with your T to find and draw your lines as the others have mentioned. (((Daisy)))

love,
Riz


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#301928 - 09/06/09 01:12 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Daisy,

My heart really does go out to you. I'm not there seeing this thing pan out between you and he nor am I a mental health professional so I can only speak to what I see you describing as having happened between you and him. I think it's time to take care of you now. If there is a child involved and it appears there is you also need to take care of his needs as best you can. Forget the six months.

As my sig line says, Albert Einstein once said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” While I'm not accusing either of you of insanity the point remains that as things currently stand, it's just not working. Time for a different approach. Time to put an end to the continuing drama if for no other reason than to remove the tinder from such close proximity to the fire. Doesn't matter if he wants you to end it so he can once again play the victim. It's not your problem. He needs to be alone with his thoughts as do you. Combining them in the same house is not working.

Only by setting a boundary on the kinds of behavior you'll accept in the relationship you will ever have hope of repairing the relationship.

As I read your post I began to wonder what your H's relationship with his mother was like, or if not his mother then some other female authority figure in his life. The reason I ask is that often a person will choose someone to enter into relationship with, with which they can continue to attempt to work out their unresolved childhood issues. I'm wondering if he could be using you as a surrogate for an authority figure in his young life with which to continue the drama, this time hoping for a different result.

Just some thoughts. Please take care of yourself. You deserve much better than what you're getting.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#302680 - 09/13/09 02:43 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: Pisces]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Hello Everyone....here is another update. I wanted my H to go with me to my T, but my T had to cancel our appt. so I went with him to his. WHAT AN EYE OPENER. First off she did not want to define my H's behavior of me as abuse, she told me the word is negative and not needed. She then explained to me that I MUST JUST FORGET IT EVER HAPPENED. (WHAT??????) yes thats correct, she said the way to get over any kind of abuse is to just put it behind me and move on. You felt bad yesterday, today is a new day, start fresh, consider each day new. She told me that I am stuck in this mindset and need to just get over it. GET OVER WHAT? WE WON"T EVEN NAME IT.

I tried to explain that I disagree with this, I asked if she had any experience with emotional and verbal abuse, she of course said yes. I asked if she would tell someone who was being beaten to just forget it, my H explained that "of course not we would make sure that the person was moved to a safe place, and protected. " do you realize that battered woman say it is the mental abuse that is worse. Then my h proceeded to say that if he thought like me and hung on to his abuse, he wouldn't be functioning. He said it happened and he let it go. REALLY???? THen why do you question your sexuality, treat me with disregard, hurt your kids? right. Think about that. thank god you just let it go.

Bottom line left there, promising to forget any of the abuse I have gone through in the past, he gets to keep himself in his self deluded state, and NO ONE EVER GETS TO HEAL. This woman is a QUACK.


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#302789 - 09/14/09 03:53 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
WOW! Wow. I'm so blessed that my husband is in a place here in Seattle that specializes in male childhood sexual abuse. I've not met the woman but just knowing that she is a specialist helps me know he is in good hands. I started group in his facility with a therapist from the center and she knows her stuff. It's a group for spouses.

I've seen baby steps these past few months although I have plenty to worry about. Just because of who he is. I've not been invited to his therapy. However, my husband has long ago admitted that he abused me and hurt me so I have let go of the need to point it out since that part has gotten so much better. IF your husband owned it, saw it and apologized for it you might be able to move forward from it. You'll never be able to until you know that he GETS, really gets what he has done to you. Period. I'm so sorry.

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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