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#30187 - 03/18/05 12:08 AM I think I know what anger is now! *Trigger*
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
I've been a little quiet here lately because the impending court case is dragging on a bit.

I remember how I have felt over the years, and how I now feel in a position of strength. That bastard left me feeling so insignificant and hiding my true abilities from the world (abused in 1969)for such a long time.

I didn't even realise that he had made any impact on my life until I woke up a few years ago.

Once I accepted what had happened to me I blamed myself and that's when I lost it!!!

I know now (and have done since January 2004) that I was never ever to blame and that I was groomed and led up the garden path (so to speak). That bastard was always in the wrong.

It hurts me now to log onto this site again tonight and find that people are still blaming themselves for what happened / making excuses for the abusers.

The abusers can and should rot in their own personal hell.

I read today where 2 'men' in Iraq had kidnapped and taken a minimum of 16 young boys to the local desert/scrubland and sexually abused /raped them, killed them & then set fire to their bodies.

One perpetrator (the kidnapper) was jailed for 15 years, the other was flogged with 100 lashes & then hung from a crane & took 20 minutes to die.

Media responses were that it was cruel & based upon revenge, others thought it was acceptable. To me it was barbaric what happened to the young boys...it appears to be barbaric what happened to the 'men'. Bet there aren't that many paedophiles in Iraq!

I may sound aggresive tonight, but I think that we are allowed to direct this aggression at our perpetrators.

Does anyone here know of a perpetrator that has ever sincerely apologised for abusing anyone?

My abuser still denies what he did - this excludes him from any forgiveness that I could muster. I save my energy for those that deserve it.

Best wishes ..RIK

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#30188 - 03/18/05 03:44 AM Re: I think I know what anger is now! *Trigger*
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Rik:
I work with abusers and male survivors. I have encountered many abusers who have sincerely regretted what they have done. Sometimes it is unclear whether they are regretting the aftereffects of the disclosure or it is their conscience dealing with hurting someone else.

However, in working with more than 2000 abusers over the past 25+ years, I have come across many who have genuinely felt bad for what they have done.

Yes, there are some who truly don't care. Yes, there some who are feeling sorry for what has happened to them. However, they are easy to pick out. Most effective treatment is done in group therapy and it is difficult to fake or hide true feelings from peers who have been there.

This may be upsetting to hear by those who believe that perpetrators are ALL horrible people (yes they have done horrible things).

My point is that sometimes, demonizing THEM is counterproductive to healing for survivors.

I realize that some who read this will paint me as an apoligist for abusers. That is not the case. My first priority is for victims of abusers and prevention of further victimzation. I treat abusers because I want to reduce or prevent more victims.

Ken


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#30189 - 03/18/05 04:16 AM Re: I think I know what anger is now! *Trigger*
ShyBear Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 149
Loc: The American South
Quote:
My point is that sometimes, demonizing THEM is counterproductive to healing for survivors.
I'd argue that demonizing the HELL out of them is VERY productive, at least in the early & perhaps mid stages of recovery. I've spent most of my life with depression due to inwardly-turned anger that legitimately belonged elsewhere. Turning that rage outward finally helped me realize that I am WORTH getting angry FOR.

But now, I'm beginning to learn that getting anygry at things I CANNOT change only raises my own blood pressure and messes with my own serenity, but I'd have never even gotten this far if I didn't finally decided I had a right to be angry.


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#30190 - 03/18/05 05:15 AM Re: I think I know what anger is now! *Trigger*
bda Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 26
Loc: North Carolina
Thanks to all of you for your posts.

Ken, I want to honor my abuser's humanity, else it seems he's always some monster who stays in control. Honestly, it feels like that much of the time -- but I'm thankful for folks like ou who are willing to the work that moves us all toward healing. So, I'm trying to learn to hold myself gently and hold the big scary man I once knew gently, too. I'm just too tired of the violence inside of me to live only out of hatred anymore.

_________________________
Unbind him, and let him go.

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#30191 - 03/18/05 03:30 PM Re: I think I know what anger is now! *Trigger*
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11088
Loc: Denver, CO
ShyBear,

I'm with you on some of that. I didn't start seeing my mom totally for what she did until I started expressing my anger toward her. She emotionally kept me down, so when she ticked me off at her as a kid I couldn't get mad at her.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#30192 - 03/18/05 05:10 PM Re: I think I know what anger is now! *Trigger*
ForeverFighting Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: New Mexico, USA
I've thought about all of this. I'm sure my uncle was abused. My dad? Who knows what happened to him. My mom grew up in a boarding school. She doesn't like to talk about it. My grandmother was the child of an alcoholic mother who married three losers in a row. Sure, we can always give somebody a way out, a reason for them being the way they were. My dad's father lived in a controlling family. My dad's aunt was anorexic. My mom's brother is addicted to gambling.

But where does it stop? I say it stops only for those who get help and try to change. My uncle won't ever come clean about what he did. My dad dances around, he's sorry, but it was really my fault, but he's sorry, but he hates me, but he wants a relationship with me.... He won't get therapy. My mom won't get help. Her family's a shambles, but she won't get help. I think anger on my part toward them is a righteous anger and deserved.

So yes, I believe that if a perp apologizes, gets therapy and stays in therapy, changes and stays changed, I can deal with him in a less angry way. I actually have a friend who's older. I'd talked to him a lot about work and all the stuff fairly good acquaintances chat about before I found his picture staring at me on the state's sexual offender web site. That rattled me, you can be sure. I kind of brought up his situation to him without going there completely. He gave me the impression that he was devestated that he had SA his daughters. I watch him, and I think he controls that old personality with every ounce of his being. Am I comfortable thinking about him ever being a perp? No. It bothers me a lot, and it's hard for me to reconcile this guy I've known with the fact that he once did to his daughters what has effectively destroyed my life. But I do consider him on a different plane than those of my family who won't own up to what's happened.

I will probably never forgive my family completely. There's only so much that "sorry" can do. And I'm angry at every perp who has harmed every one of the men here. And I do think placing the evil where it belongs, pushing the blame onto those who tried very hard to destroy us, is not only fair but deserved. And coming from the victim's point of view, where everything was my fault, my looks, my actions--I consider our anger and "demonization" of the true perps very "healing".

We're not psychologists or social workers. We don't have to be nice to the bad guys.

_________________________
ForeverFighting

"This search for the truth--it's not for the faint of heart."--Goren on 'Law & Order: CI'
"The former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17

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#30193 - 03/18/05 08:16 PM Re: I think I know what anger is now! *Trigger*
chuck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 97
Loc: mid atlantic
Foreverfighting,
Like you I can explain to myself why paretns abused me but still does't take the edge out of the anger, especially since they are deceased. I can go around and around suggesting to myself what they might or might not do - but it is no good to me. I just wanted their love and approval but that never happened. I have go with the supposition that they would deny ever doing anything wrong to me and convicing me that it was all in my mind.

As you can tell I have anger but there is also regret that they never came through for me. My brothers and I are trying to come together for each other. This is the place where healing starts for me with their acceptance and support. I hope I can get past this anger and not let it consume me as much as it now does.

But if perps start to get help and ask for forgiveness at least this is a start to making life better. In my mind they have to trully admit it was wrong and not just side step the issue. I like to believe that people can change, that includes me - that is to get better and move on from this place of anxiety, confusion and frustration. I doubt if I can forgive my parents but at least not let it bother me as much as it now does.

Chuck


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#30194 - 03/18/05 09:45 PM Re: I think I know what anger is now! *Trigger*
Brayton Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Minneapolis
I think these inadequate responses to the abuse and murder of children will continue as long as people accept the cultural dictum which says that children have less value as persons than adults and that regards children as being the personal property of adults and so subject to virtually any treatment.

The incident you report is but one of the millions that have occurred, most of them unreported. Blaming the child victim (as we too often, consequently, blame ourselves) and accusing the victim of lying (seemingly ignorant of the fact that children will naturally lie to adults in order to protect themselves) are the basic sorts of behavior that perpetuate these extraordinary and horrible crimes.

Every institution from courts to families often disregards what should be seen as the innate (and undeniable) right of children to be treated as whole and complete persons.

What you report in your post triggers an awful rage that I hold inside and it leads me to say that flaying them alive is too little a punishment for those perpetrators.

The '15 years' is a clear indication of how children are valued just as believing that a child lying to his middle school principal proves that his accusations are false.

_________________________
Sometimes, things just won't work the way we want them to.

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#30195 - 03/18/05 10:13 PM Re: I think I know what anger is now! *Trigger*
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Rik,

your post did trigger me, about these poor kids.
They will live with the same problems we suffered through, but in a much poorer environment.

As Brayton says, kids are just used and abused every day and night throughout the World.

I pray every night for the kids who have had to be there, and hope that they can make it through.

Some don't, and it is for those I hold my deepest regret, a sea of tears blights the Earth every night since time began, most of it hidden from our eyes, but we know it is there.

I have had raging anger in the past, and probably have a lot to go, but we do blame ourselves, because ultimately we have to forgive the abuser, because it would corrode our own minds.

I had to forgive him, because, if I didn't, then I most probably would not have got this far.

It is a pity we have to carry the millstone, that they alone should wear, but we were made to carry it, and anything to share the burden, is something to make it lighter.

I had so much difficulty with this problem before I found this place, and it has made a World of difference to know, that others can share their emotions, of such difficult times of their lives.

It is so different to not be alone with all the crap I/We have had to go through, nobody could ever even think of what we go through in our silence, but one day, our voices will be heard.

We are all so strong, even in our weakness, we are strong, because we got through experiences, that cannot be explained, and we survived the impossible, but to us it was never impossible, we got there, we dig ourselves out of the biggest s**t hole that life has to offer, but we get there. We always did.

take care,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#30196 - 03/19/05 07:44 AM Re: I think I know what anger is now! *Trigger*
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Major Major Trigger Warning!!!

It was just posted on the news that some sick fuck has confessed to raping and killing the little 9 yo girl that has been missing the last couple of weeks. It showed him smiling and drinking in a bar a couple of days after he killed her. I wish I had 10 minutes alone with this piece of scummy shit. I'd kill him with my bare hands, and no jury in the world would convict me, rather they'd applaud me. I wish I had the chance. And frankly, I couldn't give a damn whether this guy ever feels sorry for what he did. I don't give a fuck about any tiny piece of humanity he might have in him. I just wish there was some way to slowly burn him to death.
...Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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