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#301489 - 09/03/09 02:48 PM Want to know why I don't like to talk politics?
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
It's because I'm afraid I'll end up turning into one of these people.

Quote:
President Obama will address schoolchildren nationwide Tuesday, and some parents are threatening to keep children home because of it.

The White House is billing the speech as a back-to-school welcome message. But some in the blogosphere say it’s political indoctrination, and they won’t let their kids participate.


Okay - really? Indoctrination? What, do they think Obama is going to be pitching his health care program to third graders? "Stay in school, get good grades, and work hard to be successful." Jesus, he's going to turn our children into the Hitler Youth if he keeps that up.

What's going to happen is that eventually, no children are going to grow up with any kind of respect for the title "President of the United States". Their parents will have stripped the office of any vestige of dignity or honor, perhaps with the caveat "unless he's a (insert my political party here)". And how are these kids, when they grow up, supposed to take the office seriously enough to give their choice in a presidental election the thought and consideration it deserves?

The irony is that I bet all of those parents would be vocally approving if the school one day started requiring students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every morning before class.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#301510 - 09/03/09 05:10 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: melliferal]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
warning: as usual i am waxing opinionated here....so take it with a grain of salt, ok? wink

these wingnuts are the pro-birth maniacal parent class constantly stuck in town hall meeting offense mode. the only way they seem to wield their power is by using their children as weapons to make a point. they will continue to disapprove anything obama, as long as they continue to take their cues from fox news pundits, who see nothing correct about our government's administration under president obama.

in my gestapo dreams, they would all be lined up and publicly bitch slapped for inseminating their children with such hateful disparaging baditudes. wouldn't that be funny?

so, who should do the slappin? perez hilton?

blush

i think i said too much..... ooops laugh

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#301517 - 09/03/09 07:20 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Sans Logos]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
What if you don't respect the man that holds the office of the Presidency?

Mel, believe it or not, some people find his policies (not just his, there is plenty of sin to go around with both major parties) just plain evil? Yes, I said evil.

LOL I might have found myself alongside these people were I "normal" and had kids in school, although my reasons for not listening to him would be on a far-higher plane of enlightenment than what I suspect the majority of the parents in this story exist on.



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#301726 - 09/05/09 12:28 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Alan,

There will be another pesidental election in a few years. You may want to see what you can do to get Ron Paul elected then instead of caling other peoples names. Also might be more productive for the country too.
Whether you like President Obama's political views and positions is beside the point. The man is the President of the United States legally elected by a majority of the voting citizens.
Respect the position he holds if for no for no other reason.

And people wonder why their children show or have no respect for them.
Again parents expecting their children to do as they say and not as they do. Children become exactly what their parents teach them to become. Open-minded or bigoted, adults set the example.
Let's get our heads out of our asses and set a good example.
Whatever your political views.

Mike



_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#301734 - 09/05/09 02:18 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: michael banks]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Perhaps we might enjoy a king that everyone is afraid of, who is surrounded by his secret police and security forces, who just takes at will without any regard for anyone but himself and his few friends, who live a palatial life of luxury.

Kind of reminds me of King George Bush the 2nd!!! I remember now why I wanted to get rid of the tyrant and his cronies so badly.

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#301739 - 09/05/09 03:10 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Trucker51]
Charlie24 Offline


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 562
I think a big thing about political discussion is that it can be very emotionally draining. I know for a fact this is very true for me.

If two people are having a discussion and differ with their political views they may end up in a heated argument trying to prove to other individual that their viewpoint is superior.

I for one am grateful to be from the great land of America.

Where we are allowed to disagree and not worry about having our heads blown off for not agreeing with the President.

I think a big part of the revolt in our country is this is something very new to our country. For the first time in our 200 plus year history we don't have a President that is white.

I think this is unnerving to individuals because anytime anything new comes along change and adaption I believe in away have to evolve and maybe it's more of a revolt at the uncertainty, the fear of the unknown with a black President.

This is just my personal opinion politics. I don't think this will ever change in our Great Country.

Great topic, thanks.

Charles.


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#301759 - 09/05/09 07:37 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics [Re: Charlie24]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Hey guys,

I've decided to delete my postings in this thread. Despite whatever thoughts and feelings I have on this topic, I'm an unable to completely keep negative thoughts out of my head having to do with disagreements on these issues. This place of MS is too important to me particularly in terms of the positiveness and compassion that everyone has for one another out of the negative situations that brought us all here. I want nothing whatsoever to pollute this purely positive experience for me.

all the best,

sono



Edited by sono (09/09/09 05:59 AM)
_________________________
the family
the perp

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#301768 - 09/05/09 09:05 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Sans Logos]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: Sans Logos
warning: as usual i am waxing opinionated here....so take it with a grain of salt, ok? wink

these wingnuts are the pro-birth maniacal parent class constantly stuck in town hall meeting offense mode. the only way they seem to wield their power is by using their children as weapons to make a point. they will continue to disapprove anything obama, as long as they continue to take their cues from fox news pundits, who see nothing correct about our government's administration under president obama.

in my gestapo dreams, they would all be lined up and publicly bitch slapped for inseminating their children with such hateful disparaging baditudes. wouldn't that be funny?

so, who should do the slappin? perez hilton?

blush

i think i said too much..... ooops laugh


It's not a "conservative" thing. It's just a political thing. Left-wing extremists would be doing the same thing if it were McCain being the president and wanting to give the pep talk.


But it's a PEP TALK. You don't have to agree with the guy's health care plan, or his foreign policy, or his haircut; but all a child is going to remember is that "The President" told her to stay in school and work hard. Yes, I consider the politicization of children to be the stealing of innocence. Taking your children to a protest or a picket line, and having them hold up signs and teaching them to hate whoever the hated-politician-of-the-month is, that's abuse. You're telling them what to think and forcing them to be posters for concepts they don't even understand. Keeping your child home from school so that YOU can make a cheap political statement is, in my opinion, reprehensible.

It's the president of the United States, for Christ's sake. The president. Don't think him telling a kid to get good grades and stay away from drugs won't make an impact on at least some kids? Well, it won't make an impact on the ones who are taught to think the president is "evil", that's for sure.

Kids used to want to grow up to be things like the President, or an astronaut, or a policeman, or a firefighter. But what kid would want to be now, in this day and age where their parents call the president an asshole with malicious intent, and inform them that NASA is just a greedy money vaccuum that accomplishes nothing, and that police are nazi thugs who beat people up for no reason and want to take away all our rights, and firefighters are pawns of the mafia-esque workers' unions. See now the grand dreams of childhood, skewered on the petard of our adult egos and self-righteousness.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#301776 - 09/05/09 10:58 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: melliferal]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
When did I call somebody names?


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#301790 - 09/05/09 12:22 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
mike5 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Originally Posted By: Hauser
When did I call somebody names?


The part that I noticed was when you appeared to defend ridiculous* statements by justifying the idea that encouraging children to learn and grow in school was "evil." Or maybe you were saying those parents are evil? Either way, ad hominem attacks are basically name calling and can only be interpreted as meaning "he/she/you/they/... are stoopid, so, obviously I win."


* ridiculous = worthy of ridicule, or maybe not even worth that


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#301798 - 09/05/09 12:58 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: mike5]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
C'mon Mike. All I did was label his policies, certainly a mature level of discourse can be maintained when doing THAT. I shall elaborate:

It's not just what he's saying in his speech, it's what he's NOT saying as well;

1. Be a good "citizen"
2. Follow the "rules" in your government-funded school.
3. Don't question authority.
4. Always tow the State's line of reasoning.
5. Everything you're taught in government-funded schools is sacrosanct, and true, and should not be questioned.
6. Get good "grades",then go into debt for 15 years to pay off your "college loan".
7. Don't use drugs, unless it's government-provided Ritalin.
8. You're being locked up in this place whether you like it or not.
9. Academics take a back seat to Socialization/Compliance
10. Sit down
11. Shut up









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#301799 - 09/05/09 01:11 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Sono, I can't resist your challenge questions!!! smile




1. “Why it is better to have enormous percentages of the population un-insured?”

I would claim that your question is based on a false-assumption. The HMO Act of 1973 requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses – but not individuals – to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the illogical coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.
If this act were repealed, the model that USED to be in place, the one where the consumer paid for routine medical care and had an automatic incentive to keep costs down, there would be hardly anyone who couldn’t afford health insurance because the market would be FORCED to lower prices or they would go out of business.

As an example, I have an Uncle who’s now 82. All of his kids were born in the 50’s and 60’s, before the current health care model that is currently forced on us. His last kid was born in 1962. He paid CASH to the hospital for his wife’s delivery and 4-day stay. He paid just over 400 in cash for EVERYTHING. Now, even rated to the index of inflation, that’s still CHEAP. But why is that? I’ll tell you why, because health insurance policies didn’t normally cover ANYTHING back then except catastrophic coverage (high deductable, but everything after a certain amount was covered). We, the consumers of the service, paid cash for routine care like childbirths, and looked at our bills and questioned everything that we were being charged for.

There was also no Federal Scams like Medicare and Medicaid which underpaid doctors and hospitals who, in turn, shifted those losses onto the consumers which paid cash or had insurance. In other words, government created the problem, and then compounds the problems with even more legislation.

You might ask; “But what would we do without government-funded health care safety-nets?” I guess we would all fall over dead in the streets without the omniscient, all-wise, all-good, all-knowing, benevolent government running this facet of our lives. (please note the sarcasm)

2. “Why it is a good thing to invade countries who have not attacked ours?”

I can only answer that with my own questions. Are you assuming that it’s a good thing to have a standing army numbering in the hundreds of thousands and military bases in 120 other countries all around the world? Don’t you think it’s only a matter of time that this disposition of power will be abused? Why do you support politicians who fund the Military-Industrial Complex then? Do you think that it’s ok for our country to attack other sovereign nations without the Congress officially declaring war? (Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Libya, etc.) Why was it ok for us to go to war then, but not now, as with Iraq and Afghanistan? Why support any President that invades or continues an occupation of a country that never attacked us? Democrats are just as guilty as Republicans on this issue. Take a look at what Democratic and Republican politicians have created around the world here: http://www.motherjones.com/military-maps
Is this what “free societies” do, have world military empires?


3. “why it is important to make sure only heteros are allowed to be married?”

Why are you assuming that it’s the Government’s proper role to sanctify marriage PERIOD? You’re complaining about favoritism, tax-status, and laws which have no role in a free society. Marriage is something that only Churches should be sanctifying, not governments. If government wasn’t involved in this, you wouldn’t have anything to complain about. You should strive to get government out of it, rather than trying to “even the playing field”, so to speak. I elaborated on this quite a bit here at MS: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=224428#Post224428

In this thread, I stated: “And what about us single people? We're the NEW discriminated class. If we live until age 67, then die, ALLLLLLL of the money we put into social security goes back into the pool to pay for future retirees. Meanwhile you "married" people get to leave a "death benefit" for your "spouse", and they get a monthly check until they die, which could be for another 50 years in extreme cases. Talk about discrimination!

Oh, and if your "spouse" gets a job offer, you get to tag along and get unemployment insurance while you move to your new residence even though you voluntarily quit your job to be with your "husband". Try doing that if you're single and see how far you get.

If you're "married" and in the military, you automatically get better on-base housing, even if you're the same pay grade/rank.

If you're unmarried, you can legally be denied leave from your employer to care for a newborn child.

There are more examples I could site, such as the stupid tax code which is way to long for the purposes of this discussion, so I'll site my one single favorite assanine tax code: "married" people are entitled, when they sell their home, to a $500,000 capital gains exemption. Thus, for "married" people, $500,000 of the gain from sale of the home is exempt from taxes. Single people are only entitled to a $250,000 exemption. What's THAT all about?

I think you get my point. With respect, I'm not going to celebrate the confiscation of money and privileges from one group of people to another simply because the state sanctions their relationship.”

4. “why it is better to let everything around us which is maintained by the state fall into a state of disarray rather than pay another 50 bucks a year in taxes?”

You’re getting to the very nature of government itself now. Here’s the problem with your ideology. That 50 extra bucks a year is NEVER ENOUGH. By it’s very nature, government ALWAYS wants more money, so that they can do more “good” things; like locking up more pot-smokers, subsidizing tobacco farmers and concurrently pay for healthy “quitting programs” and subsidizing corn growers so that they can give factory farms cheap food and make us all fat because fast food is now cheaper than healthy food, while at the same time paying for the health care indigent/fat people who can’t work because they’ve been eating at Wendy’s 3 times/day for most of their lives……….I’m getting convoluted now so I’ll shut up about this.

Also, there are only so many resources to go around. If you want drug users\sellers in prison, if you want to maintain a world empire, if you want government to take care of us from cradle to grave, the money is going to fall short somewhere.

To your credit Sono, your presumption that a heavily taxed society can maintain a higher standard of living for its citizens is not without merit. Just look at Switzerland and Sweden, for instance, they have that coveted free health care, and many, many other perks that we Americans never see, but they’re also not maintaining the world’s largest prison population, nor are they managing world empires and trying to police the world.

5. “why things like airport security are better privately managed”

Are you suggesting that it’s better to have former Mcdonald’s employees (TSA) to be given tasers and guns and fondle/feel all passengers before they get on a plane? How about letting the Airlines themselves provide security? Or, better yet, how about letting all conceal/carry permitted passengers be let on board? GASP! “We couldn’t possibly let just anybody with a gun on board a plane!” you say. Well, before 1971, anyone COULD legally bring a gun on a plane. Would you contend that the skies were utter chaos before then?

6. “why talking with countries with whom we have serious differences is anathema while bombing them is a realistic course of action,”

As we speak, nearly every day, people are being killed in Afghanistan and Pakistan by bombs. And this is with a “liberal” Democratic President. I can link you if you wish. Here is a typical example, although before Obama was President: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/11/afghanistan.usa This still goes on ALL the time.

7 “purchase a machine gun is important”

Would you really want to live in a world where only Government and criminals have machine guns? What if the Government becomes tyrannical and needs to be overthrown? You think that won’t happen here? Do you think that the U.S.A. is endowed with some divine providence which won’t allow it to become this? Why do you care if I have a machine gun anyway? I thought this was a free country.


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#301801 - 09/05/09 01:17 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics [Re: Hauser]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Hey guys,

I've decided to delete my postings in this thread. Despite whatever thoughts and feelings I have on this topic, I'm an unable to completely keep negative thoughts out of my head having to do with disagreements on these issues. This place of MS is too important to me particularly in terms of the positiveness and compassion that everyone has for one another out of the negative situations that brought us all here. I want nothing whatsoever to pollute this purely positive experience for me.

all the best,

sono



Edited by sono (09/09/09 05:59 AM)
_________________________
the family
the perp

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#301803 - 09/05/09 01:34 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: sono]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I LOVE IT. smile


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#301806 - 09/05/09 01:48 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11138
Loc: Denver, CO
I gotta say, I agree with Hauser's estimate of the situation. All I see happening is government on all levels attempting to soak us for more of our hard-earned bucks. My state doubled the car property tax from last year. Is it a significant amount of money? Not really, but that isn't the point. My state government arbitrarily upped my car taxes. Hardly what I call moral. They passed laws for legalized theft. It's only about revenue. I've been watching how I drive a lot more the last few years, but especially of late with speeding fines being steep. It's all about revenue.

Regarding the Obama speech to the kids, I don't expect it to be any big deal. However, I support the parents' decisions to pull their kids out for the day if they feel they have to.

I've watched the national debt skyrocket under Clinton, Bush AND Obama. No president is guiltless of saddling us with more unpayable debt. I feel so far that many Obama policies (read laws) are detrimental to our freedom and future. The tea parties are a symptom of the underlying problem - government usurpation of power. Stealing more of our hard-earned bucks. Corruption and mismanagement of the people's funds. When does it end? How much do we put up with before enough is enough? I'm just looking at the math. It's ugly.

One Russian professor predicts the breakup of the US. I won't be surprised to see secessionist movements gain ground.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#301809 - 09/05/09 02:30 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: Hauser
When did I call somebody names?


Weren't talking about you.

I like how my thread about why I don't like discussing politics has turned into a political discussion, though. You all just hang out here and be ironic for awhile.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#301812 - 09/05/09 02:38 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: melliferal]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11138
Loc: Denver, CO
Mel, that may have been the title of the thread, but you definitely took a position in your initial post. You seemed to express an annoyance towards folks who are threatening to pull their kids out of school over a pending presidential speech, as if they are over-reacting. It's certainly acceptable for you to take a stand, but it seemed to set the tone for the thread.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#301820 - 09/05/09 03:59 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: FormerTexan]
Jim1961 Online   content
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
I rarely touch politics here, but can't keep silent on this one!

<rant mode on>

As a "pro-birth" dad, I resent having my kid's time at school used to "promote" any political party or person. I pay significant taxes to send my kids to school. Politics is not *officially* part of the curriculum, but wow that is not reality, is it? The "green" propaganda is just one small example of that!

I could send them to a private school, we could home school. But in either case, we STILL pay school taxes! That is the incredibly unfair aspect to our education system, there is no economic CHOICE!

The public school system sucks us dry and then fails horribly by polluting our children's values. All I ask is for a choice where my money goes. For some reason education does not fall into the Pro-Choice movement!

<rant mode off>

I feel better now... smile

Jim

_________________________
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. -Yes, Starship Trooper

My Story

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#301838 - 09/05/09 05:28 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: FormerTexan]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: FormerTexan
Mel, that may have been the title of the thread, but you definitely took a position in your initial post. You seemed to express an annoyance towards folks who are threatening to pull their kids out of school over a pending presidential speech, as if they are over-reacting. It's certainly acceptable for you to take a stand, but it seemed to set the tone for the thread.


Certainly I took a position, but it wasn't a political one. Not every argument, discussion, or position has to do with politics. Sure, the subject may have involved people-who-are-involved-in-politics, but that makes no difference, for the same reason that deciding on what personal items and clothing to bring with you for an extended hospital stay isn't a medical decision.

If I had said, "these people are overreacting because Obama is right", that would be a different matter.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#301853 - 09/05/09 08:44 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: melliferal]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2589
Quote:
When does it end? How much do we put up with before enough is enough?


As long as American's are fed and Entertained, appropriately distracted to what's going on, and kept divided by every debate that comes up....

We'll put up with anything until it squash's us underfoot!!!

I think the real question is... how long before China demands all the money we borrowed back and since we won't be able to repay it, just decides that it now owns us?


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#301867 - 09/06/09 12:56 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: melliferal]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Originally Posted By: melliferal
I like how my thread about why I don't like discussing politics has turned into a political discussion, though. You all just hang out here and be ironic for awhile.


LOL - Irony is the name of the game it seems! No political positioning from this poor country boy!

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#301871 - 09/06/09 01:24 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: JustScott]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Scott,

I wish that China would stop supporting the federal governments spending habits and demand repayment. Maybe things in this country and how our government works would have to be changed. What can China do if the US government decides to renege on honoring the debt it owns them. Invade, there is 4000 miles of ocean between us. Not to mention the nuclear stockpile the U.S. government has at it's disposal.
If our economy does down so does the rest of the world's. Sure won't be pretty thing to see that is for sure.

Back to the President visiting a school what is really the big deal. Almost every President has done it at one time or another not like he will discuss anything but what we to do to improve things for the kids in our schools.
Some people want to go to the voucher system where those with money can segregate their children from other less to do children and have the government subsidize them for doing so. Is not that part of why the civil rights movement was launched to end some of the inequalities that existed in our society between the well to do and the less well off.
If you want your children to go to a private school no problem just pay for it out of your pocket. The taxes you pay are for the benefit all children rich or poor not just your children. Shit people who don't even have kids also pay these taxes because it benefits all of society to education all of our children.
Allot of the problem with the education that our children receive is because parents choose not to be a active particant in their childs education. Like they drop off their children at school and that is where their responsilbes ends. No more effort on their part is required in educating their children.
To me it is my responsibility to teach my children morales,self-responsibility,good conduct and what responsibilities we have in relation to our society and the world and not the school they attend. One of the most important to things to me is that my children have proper respect for those people in authority whether they agree with or like that person personally. And to follow all direstions given to them by these people unless it is illegal or against our morales.
And if you are an active particant in your childs life and education you can make sure he learns those things that are important to you.
It is not the responsibility for our government,society or education system to instill or teach these things to them.
Our education system is there to teach them to read,write,count and the sciences' and that is all. Alot of people seem to forget this. My children's parents are here at home and not in Sacramento,Ca or Washington D.C.


Mike

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#301904 - 09/06/09 08:55 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: michael banks]
melliferal Offline
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Originally Posted By: michael banks
Scott,

I wish that China would stop supporting the federal governments spending habits and demand repayment. Maybe things in this country and how our government works would have to be changed. What can China do if the US government decides to renege on honoring the debt it owns them. Invade, there is 4000 miles of ocean between us. Not to mention the nuclear stockpile the U.S. government has at it's disposal.
If our economy does down so does the rest of the world's. Sure won't be pretty thing to see that is for sure.


That can't really happen. While it's true in the most basic sense that the only reason the US dollar is worth what it's worth is because everybody (i.e., other countries) pretends it's worth that much, the thing is that every country is like that. So while some might claim there's a "threat" that somebody somewhere will "stop pretending", the fact is that whatever country tries to do so will only tank their own economy completely, and the rest of the world will be able to remain economically-secure simply by ignoring them.

It would be nice, of course, if there were some hard asset that the exchange rate can be tied to - it worked well enough in the past when countries were economically very small. Used gold or silver or this and that and whatnot. Problem is, a small country like say, Bosnia or something, might be able to switch their economy to gold-backed, if they owned all the gold in the world. There's not enough shiny on this little planet anymore to support the US economy, not to mention the entire world's. Any large country that tries is going to skip "recession" and nosedive all the way back to the 30's.

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#302021 - 09/07/09 06:30 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
melliferal Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hauser
What if you don't respect the man that holds the office of the Presidency?

Mel, believe it or not, some people find his policies (not just his, there is plenty of sin to go around with both major parties) just plain evil? Yes, I said evil.


I realize I didn't answer this question. I suppose it's a political question, but given the turn of the thread I suppose I wouldn't exactly ruin anything by answering it.

I'd let Senator John McCain answer that question for me.

A friend and I have sort of a running joke; when discussions with friends turn political, we tend to quip "Why do you hate America?" or "Why do you hate freedom?" It's our little way of satirizing the runaway hyperbole that discussions of national politics tend to feature. We've had all sorts of fun with the recent spate of "Town Hall Meetings", whose purpose is ostensibly to discuss important issues, but in reality are circuses where half of the audience's questions aren't really questions, but are position statements with question marks at the end. Kind of like my friend and I's quips, except meant seriously rather than satire. We've been half-wondering if somebody actually would say someting like "Why does (politician x) hate freedom so much?" as a serious bit of rhetoric and not as a joke.

Well, this old lady comes pretty close:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcijeEtf-wA

Okay, so "Why does Obama hate the Constitution?" doesn't have quite the same ring as "Why does Obama hate America", but it would be close enough to win a bet, I think.

But yeah - listen to McCain's answer. That's my answer to Hauser.

I hope I don't get booed for it, the way McCain was.

Why does McCain share my attitude about the president? Well, I would imagine he must have tremendous respect for the office, given that he ran for it. But perhaps it's more than that. McCain is a military brat, like me - born on a military base. Actually, he gets a few more cool points than I do because he was born on a non-CONUS base. But he was undoubtedly raised with some of the same values I was, when it comes to things like how you don't have to agree with whoever the President is to understand that You Respect The President Of The United States.

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#302052 - 09/07/09 02:05 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics [Re: JustScott]
sono Offline
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Registered: 07/19/09
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Hey guys,

I've decided to delete my postings in this thread. Despite whatever thoughts and feelings I have on this topic, I'm an unable to completely keep negative thoughts out of my head having to do with disagreements on these issues. This place of MS is too important to me particularly in terms of the positiveness and compassion that everyone has for one another out of the negative situations that brought us all here. I want nothing whatsoever to pollute this purely positive experience for me.

all the best,

sono



Edited by sono (09/09/09 05:58 AM)
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#302066 - 09/07/09 04:07 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: sono]
melliferal Offline
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#302222 - 09/08/09 08:56 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: melliferal]
Hauser Offline
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Quote from the speech:

"The story of America isn’t about people who quit when things got tough. It’s about people who kept going, who tried harder, who loved their country too much to do anything less than their best. It’s the story of students who sat where you sit 250 years ago, and went on to wage a revolution and found this nation."

Ummmmmmmm, I thought George Washington quit school at age 12.
I thought that Ben Franklin quit school at age 14 to work for his Uncle, making candles.

Then again, there weren't even ANY PUBLIC schools back when they lived! Hello?????????

So..........Mel............THIS is why I wouldn't want my kids to listen to him. He's purposefully lulling us all into believing that Public Schools were ALWAYS here and that our society would cease to exist if we didn't have them. What a bunch of BS! LOL


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#302237 - 09/08/09 10:26 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Hmmmm....

I've read and reread the quote of the president's speach from your post just above, Alan, and I see nothing in there where he mentions "public schools" let alone the fact that there indeed were public schools 250 years ago.

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#302244 - 09/08/09 10:54 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: WalkingSouth]
king tut Offline
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I'm never quite sure if politics should be in off topic or in the open forum...i feel tension in here, or maybe it is just me...

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#302247 - 09/08/09 11:03 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: king tut]
king tut Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hauser
7 “purchase a machine gun is important”

Would you really want to live in a world where only Government and criminals have machine guns?


I love how you think Hauser!

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#302249 - 09/08/09 11:12 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: king tut]
Hauser Offline
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It's the 2ond paragraph from the end John.


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#302266 - 09/08/09 11:59 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
melliferal Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hauser
He's purposefully lulling us all into believing that Public Schools were ALWAYS here and that our society would cease to exist if we didn't have them. What a bunch of BS! LOL


Are you sure he isn't just talking about taking initiative and setting and achieving goals, like the entire rest of the speech was about?



Edited by melliferal (09/08/09 11:59 PM)
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#302283 - 09/09/09 01:26 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: melliferal]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Allen,

You sure can read alot into a couple sentences.
I just don't see where you are coming from.
Are you a Rush L fan?

Mike

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#302306 - 09/09/09 09:35 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: michael banks]
Hauser Offline
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Nahhhh, Rush is a big-government neocon marxist/socialist, only he doesn't want welfare for the poor, he only wants it for the military-industrial complex and other politically connected beltway buddies, like the white-shoe boys on Wall Street, etc.

ANYWAY,

Let me elaborate a little bit on my previous accusation that Meliferal was apparently ready to dismiss.

David Farragut, the future Civil War Admiral of the Union Navy, joined the service as a Midshipman at the age of 12. Do you think that he was in school then? Heck no, he QUIT. While still 12 years old, he was given command of a captured British Warship, and successfully brought her back to port as a War Prize.

Questions for you guys: How well do you think our young and talented Mr. Farragut would have fared in our current Prussian-Modeled/Socialized Public School System which would have required him to "stay in school" until the ripe old age of 18? Do you think his ambitions would have remained the same? Do you think his aspirations would have never diminished as he was forced to learn about such important things as Robert Frost Poetry and other God-awful boring crap?

Let's look at another example, shall we?

An exceptionally gifted 16 year-old named Louis Braille developed, mostly on his own, a system reading for the blind. He made a very important contribution to the betterment of our world. His happened in the very early 19th Century.

Questions for you guys: How well do you think our young and talented Mr. Braille would have fared in today's Prussian-Modeled/Socialized Public School System which would have required him to "stay in school" until the ripe old age of 18, in some "special needs" class setting? I would venture to say that reading for the blind might well have taken another 100 years to be invented because a disillusioned and bored-out-of-his-mind Mr. Braille would have been too "busy" with "homework". Homework like reading how to put a condom on a cucumber or learning important things like 2x-xyz = 2xy30-kv7 (no offense intended King Tut)

My point is that we're forcing EVERYONE to learn too much of everything, most of which is boring and uninteresting to most students, and leaving them no time to pursue their own passions and interests.

Carl Sagan was another example. At a very early young age, he went to the Library because he was fascinated about stars. He found a book which told him that stars were extremely large, but very very far away. Would he have had time to develop his passion for Astronomy if he had a backpack full of "homework" which forced him to delve into other subjects that were boring and meaningless to him? Do you see where I'm going with this?

Anyway.............I'm off to work...........


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#302309 - 09/09/09 10:34 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 303
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
Ummmm....I went to one of the best public schools in my state. Never on any night did I ever have more than an hour and a half of homework at the most, unless I procrastinated on some reasearch paper until the last minute. The thing about giving kids a broad spectrum of things to study in school instead of a narrow one is that it allows them to specialize or pursue the things they're really interested in. If the kids who are good at math and can't stand english want to stop taking English classes, then they can stop taking them if they decide to go to college. I had a general education requirement to take two english classes my freshman year, and they were both easy. I also dislike math, so I took "math for non-math majors" and an intro to computer science class.


And for kids who had part time jobs in high school, there were plenty of garages to work at for kids who wanted to be mechanics. My father, who owns a construction business, allowed kids who wanted to do manual labor work on site for him during the summer. Kids who like politics and political science had model UN or a debate club. There are plenty of opportunities to pursue things you're passionate about outside of school if you so desire, and many kids do. Lastly, if kids can't find a job doing nuclear engineering or bio molecular science part time, there's always tons of books and other sources of information available for young people to learn. Although a lot of learning occurs in the public schools in the span of a normal school day, it doesn't have to stop once the kid leaves.


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#441447 - 07/20/13 05:24 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: melliferal]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3429
Loc: O Kanada
the current democratic process with the apparent choice between left and right is also known as the Hegelian Dialectic.

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/dialectic.htm
http://nord.twu.net/acl/dialectic.html
http://www.fhu.com/hegelian.html
http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=1444
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skw-0jv9kts
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hegelian+dialectic
http://www.amerikanexpose.com/hegel/
http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF%20Books/Studies%20in%20the%20Hegelian%20Dialectic.pdf

also called:
"thesis antithesis synthesis" or "problem reaction solution" or
"ordo ab chao" or "divide and conquer" or
"totalitarian tiptoe" or "balkanization".

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."
- Franklin D. Roosevelt -
"Politics is the art of the possible."
- Otto von Bismarck -
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."
- Emma Goldman -
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#441452 - 07/20/13 06:34 AM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: melliferal]
Brian Offline
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.


Edited by Brian (07/20/13 06:43 AM)
Edit Reason: I violated my own rule of talking politics.
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