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#301798 - 09/05/09 12:58 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: mike5]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
C'mon Mike. All I did was label his policies, certainly a mature level of discourse can be maintained when doing THAT. I shall elaborate:

It's not just what he's saying in his speech, it's what he's NOT saying as well;

1. Be a good "citizen"
2. Follow the "rules" in your government-funded school.
3. Don't question authority.
4. Always tow the State's line of reasoning.
5. Everything you're taught in government-funded schools is sacrosanct, and true, and should not be questioned.
6. Get good "grades",then go into debt for 15 years to pay off your "college loan".
7. Don't use drugs, unless it's government-provided Ritalin.
8. You're being locked up in this place whether you like it or not.
9. Academics take a back seat to Socialization/Compliance
10. Sit down
11. Shut up









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#301799 - 09/05/09 01:11 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Sono, I can't resist your challenge questions!!! smile




1. “Why it is better to have enormous percentages of the population un-insured?”

I would claim that your question is based on a false-assumption. The HMO Act of 1973 requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses – but not individuals – to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the illogical coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.
If this act were repealed, the model that USED to be in place, the one where the consumer paid for routine medical care and had an automatic incentive to keep costs down, there would be hardly anyone who couldn’t afford health insurance because the market would be FORCED to lower prices or they would go out of business.

As an example, I have an Uncle who’s now 82. All of his kids were born in the 50’s and 60’s, before the current health care model that is currently forced on us. His last kid was born in 1962. He paid CASH to the hospital for his wife’s delivery and 4-day stay. He paid just over 400 in cash for EVERYTHING. Now, even rated to the index of inflation, that’s still CHEAP. But why is that? I’ll tell you why, because health insurance policies didn’t normally cover ANYTHING back then except catastrophic coverage (high deductable, but everything after a certain amount was covered). We, the consumers of the service, paid cash for routine care like childbirths, and looked at our bills and questioned everything that we were being charged for.

There was also no Federal Scams like Medicare and Medicaid which underpaid doctors and hospitals who, in turn, shifted those losses onto the consumers which paid cash or had insurance. In other words, government created the problem, and then compounds the problems with even more legislation.

You might ask; “But what would we do without government-funded health care safety-nets?” I guess we would all fall over dead in the streets without the omniscient, all-wise, all-good, all-knowing, benevolent government running this facet of our lives. (please note the sarcasm)

2. “Why it is a good thing to invade countries who have not attacked ours?”

I can only answer that with my own questions. Are you assuming that it’s a good thing to have a standing army numbering in the hundreds of thousands and military bases in 120 other countries all around the world? Don’t you think it’s only a matter of time that this disposition of power will be abused? Why do you support politicians who fund the Military-Industrial Complex then? Do you think that it’s ok for our country to attack other sovereign nations without the Congress officially declaring war? (Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Libya, etc.) Why was it ok for us to go to war then, but not now, as with Iraq and Afghanistan? Why support any President that invades or continues an occupation of a country that never attacked us? Democrats are just as guilty as Republicans on this issue. Take a look at what Democratic and Republican politicians have created around the world here: http://www.motherjones.com/military-maps
Is this what “free societies” do, have world military empires?


3. “why it is important to make sure only heteros are allowed to be married?”

Why are you assuming that it’s the Government’s proper role to sanctify marriage PERIOD? You’re complaining about favoritism, tax-status, and laws which have no role in a free society. Marriage is something that only Churches should be sanctifying, not governments. If government wasn’t involved in this, you wouldn’t have anything to complain about. You should strive to get government out of it, rather than trying to “even the playing field”, so to speak. I elaborated on this quite a bit here at MS: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=224428#Post224428

In this thread, I stated: “And what about us single people? We're the NEW discriminated class. If we live until age 67, then die, ALLLLLLL of the money we put into social security goes back into the pool to pay for future retirees. Meanwhile you "married" people get to leave a "death benefit" for your "spouse", and they get a monthly check until they die, which could be for another 50 years in extreme cases. Talk about discrimination!

Oh, and if your "spouse" gets a job offer, you get to tag along and get unemployment insurance while you move to your new residence even though you voluntarily quit your job to be with your "husband". Try doing that if you're single and see how far you get.

If you're "married" and in the military, you automatically get better on-base housing, even if you're the same pay grade/rank.

If you're unmarried, you can legally be denied leave from your employer to care for a newborn child.

There are more examples I could site, such as the stupid tax code which is way to long for the purposes of this discussion, so I'll site my one single favorite assanine tax code: "married" people are entitled, when they sell their home, to a $500,000 capital gains exemption. Thus, for "married" people, $500,000 of the gain from sale of the home is exempt from taxes. Single people are only entitled to a $250,000 exemption. What's THAT all about?

I think you get my point. With respect, I'm not going to celebrate the confiscation of money and privileges from one group of people to another simply because the state sanctions their relationship.”

4. “why it is better to let everything around us which is maintained by the state fall into a state of disarray rather than pay another 50 bucks a year in taxes?”

You’re getting to the very nature of government itself now. Here’s the problem with your ideology. That 50 extra bucks a year is NEVER ENOUGH. By it’s very nature, government ALWAYS wants more money, so that they can do more “good” things; like locking up more pot-smokers, subsidizing tobacco farmers and concurrently pay for healthy “quitting programs” and subsidizing corn growers so that they can give factory farms cheap food and make us all fat because fast food is now cheaper than healthy food, while at the same time paying for the health care indigent/fat people who can’t work because they’ve been eating at Wendy’s 3 times/day for most of their lives……….I’m getting convoluted now so I’ll shut up about this.

Also, there are only so many resources to go around. If you want drug users\sellers in prison, if you want to maintain a world empire, if you want government to take care of us from cradle to grave, the money is going to fall short somewhere.

To your credit Sono, your presumption that a heavily taxed society can maintain a higher standard of living for its citizens is not without merit. Just look at Switzerland and Sweden, for instance, they have that coveted free health care, and many, many other perks that we Americans never see, but they’re also not maintaining the world’s largest prison population, nor are they managing world empires and trying to police the world.

5. “why things like airport security are better privately managed”

Are you suggesting that it’s better to have former Mcdonald’s employees (TSA) to be given tasers and guns and fondle/feel all passengers before they get on a plane? How about letting the Airlines themselves provide security? Or, better yet, how about letting all conceal/carry permitted passengers be let on board? GASP! “We couldn’t possibly let just anybody with a gun on board a plane!” you say. Well, before 1971, anyone COULD legally bring a gun on a plane. Would you contend that the skies were utter chaos before then?

6. “why talking with countries with whom we have serious differences is anathema while bombing them is a realistic course of action,”

As we speak, nearly every day, people are being killed in Afghanistan and Pakistan by bombs. And this is with a “liberal” Democratic President. I can link you if you wish. Here is a typical example, although before Obama was President: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/11/afghanistan.usa This still goes on ALL the time.

7 “purchase a machine gun is important”

Would you really want to live in a world where only Government and criminals have machine guns? What if the Government becomes tyrannical and needs to be overthrown? You think that won’t happen here? Do you think that the U.S.A. is endowed with some divine providence which won’t allow it to become this? Why do you care if I have a machine gun anyway? I thought this was a free country.


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#301801 - 09/05/09 01:17 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics [Re: Hauser]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Hey guys,

I've decided to delete my postings in this thread. Despite whatever thoughts and feelings I have on this topic, I'm an unable to completely keep negative thoughts out of my head having to do with disagreements on these issues. This place of MS is too important to me particularly in terms of the positiveness and compassion that everyone has for one another out of the negative situations that brought us all here. I want nothing whatsoever to pollute this purely positive experience for me.

all the best,

sono



Edited by sono (09/09/09 05:59 AM)
_________________________
the family
the perp

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#301803 - 09/05/09 01:34 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: sono]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I LOVE IT. smile


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#301806 - 09/05/09 01:48 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Denver, CO
I gotta say, I agree with Hauser's estimate of the situation. All I see happening is government on all levels attempting to soak us for more of our hard-earned bucks. My state doubled the car property tax from last year. Is it a significant amount of money? Not really, but that isn't the point. My state government arbitrarily upped my car taxes. Hardly what I call moral. They passed laws for legalized theft. It's only about revenue. I've been watching how I drive a lot more the last few years, but especially of late with speeding fines being steep. It's all about revenue.

Regarding the Obama speech to the kids, I don't expect it to be any big deal. However, I support the parents' decisions to pull their kids out for the day if they feel they have to.

I've watched the national debt skyrocket under Clinton, Bush AND Obama. No president is guiltless of saddling us with more unpayable debt. I feel so far that many Obama policies (read laws) are detrimental to our freedom and future. The tea parties are a symptom of the underlying problem - government usurpation of power. Stealing more of our hard-earned bucks. Corruption and mismanagement of the people's funds. When does it end? How much do we put up with before enough is enough? I'm just looking at the math. It's ugly.

One Russian professor predicts the breakup of the US. I won't be surprised to see secessionist movements gain ground.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#301809 - 09/05/09 02:30 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: Hauser]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: Hauser
When did I call somebody names?


Weren't talking about you.

I like how my thread about why I don't like discussing politics has turned into a political discussion, though. You all just hang out here and be ironic for awhile.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#301812 - 09/05/09 02:38 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: melliferal]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Denver, CO
Mel, that may have been the title of the thread, but you definitely took a position in your initial post. You seemed to express an annoyance towards folks who are threatening to pull their kids out of school over a pending presidential speech, as if they are over-reacting. It's certainly acceptable for you to take a stand, but it seemed to set the tone for the thread.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#301820 - 09/05/09 03:59 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: FormerTexan]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
I rarely touch politics here, but can't keep silent on this one!

<rant mode on>

As a "pro-birth" dad, I resent having my kid's time at school used to "promote" any political party or person. I pay significant taxes to send my kids to school. Politics is not *officially* part of the curriculum, but wow that is not reality, is it? The "green" propaganda is just one small example of that!

I could send them to a private school, we could home school. But in either case, we STILL pay school taxes! That is the incredibly unfair aspect to our education system, there is no economic CHOICE!

The public school system sucks us dry and then fails horribly by polluting our children's values. All I ask is for a choice where my money goes. For some reason education does not fall into the Pro-Choice movement!

<rant mode off>

I feel better now... smile

Jim

_________________________
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. -Yes, Starship Trooper

My Story

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#301838 - 09/05/09 05:28 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: FormerTexan]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: FormerTexan
Mel, that may have been the title of the thread, but you definitely took a position in your initial post. You seemed to express an annoyance towards folks who are threatening to pull their kids out of school over a pending presidential speech, as if they are over-reacting. It's certainly acceptable for you to take a stand, but it seemed to set the tone for the thread.


Certainly I took a position, but it wasn't a political one. Not every argument, discussion, or position has to do with politics. Sure, the subject may have involved people-who-are-involved-in-politics, but that makes no difference, for the same reason that deciding on what personal items and clothing to bring with you for an extended hospital stay isn't a medical decision.

If I had said, "these people are overreacting because Obama is right", that would be a different matter.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#301853 - 09/05/09 08:44 PM Re: Want to know why I don't like to talk politics? [Re: melliferal]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2574
Quote:
When does it end? How much do we put up with before enough is enough?


As long as American's are fed and Entertained, appropriately distracted to what's going on, and kept divided by every debate that comes up....

We'll put up with anything until it squash's us underfoot!!!

I think the real question is... how long before China demands all the money we borrowed back and since we won't be able to repay it, just decides that it now owns us?


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