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#298325 - 08/07/09 02:00 AM may trigger....abused wives? who cares?
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
I have tried several times to see a marriage counselor with my H. We usually do not last more than 3 or 4 sessions. If the T does not agree with him ....done. Our last T told me I need to stop bringing up the abuse daily( not true) and the only one that can help me is me.He told me I need to take responsibility for my half of this wreck. I can only work on me. I AGREED. My H would sit there and lie,( he is a compulsive liar) and would just believe him, but if I said something about what he had done....he would ask my H if it was true.I did not feel comfortable at all.

Finally we were given a bill and it was double what we thought. WHY? The receptionist said we are out of network. WHAT???? I picked all the names out of my medical book listing drs and coverage. How could this have happened? MY H had no idea. He called to make the appointment, if I would have made it he would have accused me of talking to the T and he would be biased against him. I asked him for the paper, he can't find it. I searched my book for any of the names on the card, no matches and called the receptionist again and she assured me that they have never been in my plan. THIS LEAVES MY H. He works in psych in a hospital and could have gotten the name from someone....even though we needed to be in network.

Anyway we quit. My h has been nice....and now he has not. He tells me at least 3 times a day," do you know what's wrong with you?" undermines me with the kids....I see my 14yr picking up his bad habits of putting me down and then expecting special treatment.

Anyway, I went back to one of our first marriage T's. My H hated him because he didn't agree with him that I had mental problems. ANYWAY, he is great. He remembered my H, bald,very rigid, and quite controlling. This is where it could get dicey for some ***** my T would like to know why I am so worried about what happened to hin 37 years ago, but you don't any regard for the abuse you endured yesterday. WHAT???? Who is helping you through your abuse at the hands of him.
I liked him because he was straight forward...but was not ready for this. I've thought of it....but then he was so sweet. MY T says emotional and verbal abuse can be, if not more be damaging to one's soul. Have any of you ever thought about the long term effects your behaviors have on us. I think I have PTSD...I blank out when he starts belittling me.

I came into the relationship young, niave...and now I am emotionally beaten down...empty. He Shares nothing with me. He has made me his victim,,,but spins it that it is him,

PLEASE MEN IF YOU EVEN THINK THIS MIGHT BE TRUE GET YOUR SELF INTO A PROGRAM FOR ANGRY MEN.....save some of your marriages. If my h would take me in his arms and look deep in my eyes and asked my to explain my feelings I think I would die. We are being abused.....sorry but true. When a marriage ends I hope you remember this....It can't always be about you....we deserve time too.


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#298330 - 08/07/09 02:57 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
LittleNinja Offline


Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 9
Loc: South Africa
Dear NY Daisy

I am not a wife (and hence I know nothing about marriage or kids - heck I don't think I could say anything helpful about relationships at all - I can only listen and pray and tell you a bit about my story. I'm the girlfriend of a survivor. I can't say I relate to everything you have said in your post but I certainly have endured some unfair treatment. He tends to withdraw sometimes and also doesn't share his thoughts and feelings. I don't need to know everything he thinks and feels all the time!!! I just want an answer sometimes when I ask him why he's not doing okay! I also don't want to beg him to tell me things! But if after 3 attempts I stop asking him whats wrong he feels I don't care to know what he is going through! HUH? This really confuses me. I don't want to nag but if I don't it means I don't care about him? He gets angry and directs all that anger towards me and I don't deserve one bit of it!

At the moment I barely get enough sleep since he "loses' it when he texts me or tries to call and I don't reply - I have set my mobile's alert tones as loud as they can go but still sometimes I'm so tired after a day at work ect that when I go to bed I sleep like a rock! Then eventually if I do wake up and answer my phone he tells me things like "you don't sound tired or like you have been sleeping" - implying that I lied about being at home and that I'm busy doing something he wouldn't approve of, and "I should have known it would be one of those nights that I can't reach you no matter what I do" - this he says past midnight when most people I know are asleep - but for me to be sleeping is unacceptable, and "can't you just f****ng answer your phone!!!" - followed by him hanging up and me having to call back... frown

I don't think it's at all realistic that he expects me to be availiable for a talk every hour of the day and night. I try to be there for him as much as I possibly can, giving up sleep and other activities. I don't mind doing that because I care for him deeply and know he needs me just like I need him, but it hurts me so much when he takes his anger out on me and talks to me like I'm a lying dishonest uncaring piece of crap. I don't even know how to explain to him anymore that I was JUST SLEEPING! (I never get more than 5 hours of sleep a day!!!) And no matter what I say he just insists that I can phone him any time of the day or night even if he's dead tired or sleeping or drunk and he would still answer - NOT TRUE.

I understand that sometimes he isn't availiable or in the position to contact me and I accept that. It's such a small issue really but for him it's huge and he flyes off the handle. Why can't he just be more realsitic and understanding? I swear this is basicly the only thing worth mentioning that we ever really argue about. It seems rather ridiculous to me to argue about not always replying to sms's and answering phone calls... BIG SIGH.

I guess my issues are rather small compared to yours but your thread gave me the opportunity to vent - haven't posted anything for long and somehow couldn't bring myself to hit the submit button - I have written a post twice this week but didn't feel like I could post it...almost like I'm betraying him by discussing some of my feelings and aspects of our relationship. Maybe I'm just crazy and irrational. I don't know.

Thanks for your thread NY Daisy - I feel a bit better now! smile
I hope things will go better for you!

Peace, healing and love

LN

_________________________
"I have found the paradox, that if you love until it hurts, there can be no more hurt, only more love." - Mother Teresa


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#298340 - 08/07/09 06:48 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: LittleNinja]
GSH Offline


Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 14
Hey NY Daisy,
Your post resonates with me in a different way- you sound panicked(forgive me if I am wrong)-but if you are, rightfully so.

Panicked that the man you love is slipping away; the depth of love and connectedness you once had, that you are fighting for, until your dying breath....is losing its connection anyway.

In respect to connectedness: my husband talks in circles a lot, avoiding authenticity and transparancy on any level, thus inhibiting real bonding in any way, shape or form. I am alone in my marriage.

Peace to you in the struggle to stay connected with a hurting man. Good job for crying out for help in the midst of your pain. Your pain is as valid.

Love hurts beyond human ability when it is not in an environment to grow or is intentionally thwarted.

Having a "bottom line" with a partner is empowering. Perhaps your passion and energy would better support you right now if you clarified your bottom line (what you will take and won't take)and subsequently see a "marker" of sorts to gage your way down this very difficult road.
God bless you
GSH


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#298372 - 08/07/09 02:08 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: GSH]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Hi NWD,

GSH is right. You need a line in the sand that signifies what you will and will not accept as far as his behaviors go. Drawing that line and make it stick is the only possible hope of saving the relationship.

It's a tough decision to have to make but in the end it is the best one. Many times taking that stand is the turning point for the survivor.

I wish you peace,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#298546 - 08/09/09 01:51 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: WalkingSouth]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I understand. Hubby as done some things over the years that has clearly been abusive and has damaged me. AND if MY husband would take me in his arms and look deep into MY eyes and ask me how I felt I would NOT have a CLUE what to do with THAT!!! He avoids feelings like posion. Scary stuff those feelings. I know to him it is scary but dang it, feelings are real and have to be heard. If not you have a sad wife. My husband is better but the ups and downs can be unbearable. The yelling and name calling are the worst. I do find myself shutting down over those. Hard to know what to do. John has told me to draw my line as well. I'm working on it. I'm getting stronger, as you seem to be. I'm so proud of you for getting into therapy for yourself!! I'm next.

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#298583 - 08/09/09 02:50 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: dangal]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Hi, NY Daisy.

WOW. You are IN a difficult situation no doubt.

It sounds to me as if you know what you IN.

I am a survivor and a formerly married man (divorced 20 years ago in 4 months) who had to get honest.

I will be the first to say my csa caused damaged to me and those around me and I struggle in trusting others including those who are the closest to me. It is VERY unfortunate for us survivors and those around us as adults to live with this. I did not "deal" with my CSA and its affects (I surpressed it) until 3 years ago.

It is OK to set limits and get to know yourself. It is OK to leave even for just an hour or whatever.

The feelings will not kill us but, lack of feeling them will. In my opinion, NOT dealing with the "affects" of the abuse (csa from yesterdays and stuff from today) will poison any relationship.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#298589 - 08/09/09 03:39 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: DJsport]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Originally Posted By: DJsport
The feelings will not kill us but, lack of feeling them will. In my opinion, NOT dealing with the "affects" of the abuse (csa from yesterdays and stuff from today) will poison any relationship.


I couldn't agree more. Well said!

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#298689 - 08/10/09 09:38 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: WalkingSouth]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Dear all....Thank you for responding to my post. I hear you Little Ninja...why does he need to take out his frustration on you....all your asking for is sleep. I thought that my problems were minimal when I first started coming her too....but I was just in denial.

I am in a panic. Not because my Husband is slipping away(he likes it the way it is right now, me beaten down afraid to open my mouth) I am in a panic because I see it for what it really is...and I am slipping away. My T is helping me see that NO ONE should have to tolerate ABUSE...regardless of past situations. My T suggested I read LUNDY BANCROFT....Why Does He Do That???? In the minds of angry and controlling men. LADIES PLEASE READ THIS. My T has explained to me that by allowing my H to use his SA as a reason for his abuse of me...I enabled his bad behavior. I like many of you thought my H was a nice guy....well emotionally abusive men are nice guys. They have to be nice, so that they can win you back....just to do it again. Your blindsided every single time...." WHAT HAPPENED!"" We need to wake up and smell the coffee....a nice guy would not treat us the way some of our Husbands do. Simple as that. One of our T's had said to me, " sometimes someone is just a nasty prick." He was refering to my H. My H has been using is past to manipulate me....if I dare mention his behavior has something to do with his SA....it's because I just won't let him live it down. He is fine...ask him, he'll tell you. He will also tell you that I have many psychiatric problems, and one of his new ones is that I have never learned how to relate to people and form healthy bonds. IS HE KIDDING ME???

I have tried everything with this man. HE IS FINE. Everyone in his house, me the kids, the dog....we all need help. My new T wants to know when he received his degree in psych. NEVER. When I draw a line on something and tell him it won't be tolerated...he finds a new one to cross...and expects to be rewarded for respecting me. I put 20 years of my life into trying to establish a loving relationship with this man...and I have a superficial shell before me. He treats me like an aquaintance. I mutual friend on Fabebook asked me a question about our family going on vacation, so I asked him why he would tell people we were going on vacay...when were not. I was screamed at, he was yelling how the problem is I do not want him speaking to anyone but me...and I'm just pissed that he does not tell me things when I want him to. HUH!!!! Anyway...he deleted his Facebook acct. Never told me, someone pm'd me asking about it. What am I supposed to say?

I can go on for hours and hours, my heart is breaking, my H feels I am the one in need of help, he is fine, I am getting myself help....and slowly he is losing me. I asked him once if the shoe was on the other foot and I was threatening to leave, like he does all the time, would you fight for me? the answer sadly was no.


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#298701 - 08/10/09 11:33 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
(((Daisy))) I don't know what to say. I'm still here at MS, but, I haven't been saying much because...I don't know what to say anymore. So much sadness and seemingly no solutions.

Do I hear that it is painful for you because finally your HUSBAND is losing YOU? It is so painful for us to feel like we are being left behind, but maybe moreso to begin considering throwing in the towel ourselves?

In the end I still wanted to give in, to think that, in light of my husband's problems, my needs could be set aside. Then came the day that I needed one little thing emotionally and he wouldn't give it. So that was it. I said good bye if you can't give me this. He couldn't. That one little thing. (My shrink says it was a big thing for him...but...) And I feel like I was too harsh and lacking understanding. But I NEEDED what I needed. So hard to find the balance between being understanding and losing self respect.

It certainly sounds like you have tried and tried and then tried some more. You deserve the self respect you are giving yourself now. My thoughts are with you.

Riz


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#298712 - 08/10/09 12:24 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: riz]
Pisces Offline


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 25
Loc: California
Ladies, thank you for making me not feel so alone in the same exact thoughts you all continue to share. The tears that are flowing down my face could write pages of the same story we are all sharing. Sometimes I feel so much shame inside because suddenly I woke up and I realized I am in a very painful emotionally abusive relationship. I sometimes blame myself, because I think "how did I allow this to happen". I feel alone in my thoughts as many things that have happened/been said to me I cannot bear to admit to a friend or family member. I am embarrassed. But what I do know and admit that I have contributed to this ongoing abuse by making excuses because he was acting out due to unresolved CSA issues and PTSD. As a wise person illustrated on MS before...we wouldnt allow a stranger to treat us this way or someone without CSA issues...so why him?? So true.

So now I have pulled away to take care of me and allow him the space to take care of him. But I would be a liar if I didnt admit that I dont hope to hear from him. That I dont think about him every day. That I dont have so much empathy and courage for his stregnth for the things he is finally doing to handle CSA. But I know what I was doing before wasnt helping him....or me. As hard as it is every day...I just have to let it all be.

I am sorry I cannot lend words of advice or offer a bandaid to the every breaking/disappointed heart. All I can mirror to you and keep repeating to myself is what I do know is right: take care of ourselves. Hard as we've spent so long caring, loving and sometimes enabling our partners. But sadly, somehow many of us lost ourselves in this and we need to rediscover who we were/are.


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#298722 - 08/10/09 01:08 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
roxanne Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/22/08
Posts: 16
Daisy,

It is a shock. We make excuses for them for so many years, through so much bad behaviour and bad treatment. They were abused, right? And I wasn't, so I can and must overlook it, for the sake of the little boy who suffered so much. We start to change, to become withdrawn, depressed and yes, we show symptoms of PTSD. Sometimes we are angry, and then we feel guilty because, yes, he suffered so much. And we swallow it down again. Until the day dawns, and it is the most painful day of all the painful days we have experienced to date, when we realize that he is going to keep treating us this way, no matter how much therapy he gets, no matter how much progress he makes (and he has made progress). We realize that we will be his punching bag always. And that it is not really about the CSA.
You are not crazy. I went through this last year. 2008 was my year to be in a dense fog of pain and hurt, and realization that a man can be a CSA survivor and also be an abuser. And whom was he abusing? Me, his wife, who stuck with him through everything. There is no excuse for his behaviour, in my opinion, because he knows how it feels.

I am so sorry for your pain. You will get better, Daisy, I promise, 2009 has already been a much better year for me. He may not get better, but you will.

With all my love,
Roxanne


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#298743 - 08/10/09 04:15 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: roxanne]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
I always figured it was easier for me to take the B.S because I was physically and emotionally abused as a child. It took a few years for me to even see some of it..."this is normal right?" I would tell myself. Yelling and throwing stuff was normal in life.
Once I woke up and figured out it was not normal and NOT ok it was hard to dig myself out of the thoughts that I deserved it. I as well was young. 17 when I met him and 19 when I was married. I heard a lot of "if you just did.......", "if you just didn't do......", "I only get this mad with you", "no one else envokes this kind of rage within me but you", "you know how to push my buttons." and my all time favorite...."I just want to be left alone." He always just wants to be left alone. If I left him alone his whole life he'd be happy, he wouldn't have to interact with me and life would be fine.

It's a lonely life. When H is angry all bets are off. He is cruel and the mean things that come out of that mouth are amazing and I have learned to shut down and let it go, except every once in awhile he'll find a button and hurt me good.

When schools starts again I'll be able to go back to therapy, I can't wait to get of the clarity that you are able to get. Hugs to you my friend.

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#298760 - 08/10/09 05:29 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: dangal]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
You gals have my compassion. Even tho my relationship with my wife is pretty decent now, it has not always been so. Some of the things you talk about in this thread were my problems also. When I read threads like this it causes me to go back and reexamine my current behaviors because certainly I'm not perfect and I'm sure residual elements remain in my life of things from the past.

Your courage is inspiring. Thankyou for being here and for being willing to be
vulnerable for in that vulnerability some of us are shown a much needed mirror.

I wish good things for each of you. You deserve it. Continue to be strong.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#299044 - 08/12/09 09:24 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: WalkingSouth]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
Thanks John. It means a lot to hear it.
Jen

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#299292 - 08/14/09 02:05 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: dangal]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
No one can take advantage of you unless you allow it. I think it was Ann Landers who published it and it's been repeated over and over and over ad nausem. They are pretty simple words that seem to make all the sense in the world, but they really are silly and useless, because the "taking advantage" or abuse sneaks up on you. You don't/can't stop it because you don't see it for what it is until your neck deep with your legs and arms pinned at your sides. But what do you do when you finally are able to "see?" It seems hopeless. You've been denagrated and controlled for years; you've lost all points of reference to a "normal" life. Piece by piece, you've forfeighted yourself for the sake of someone else. You can't fight your way out; you don't know right from wrong any more; "you" aren't there. You're just a head sticking out of the muck. You have no limbs to grab for a lifeline, but you do have a voice. It's weak, it's frightened, but its there and you know it's all you have left. It doesn't pay to scream, no one hears it. Whisper, people will strain to hear you, maybe if they strain hard enough, they will really "hear" you. You've been almost broken, someone will want to help. Maybe not the first 100, but maybe number 101 will reach under your arms and pull you out a little bit. We have to call to them, the "others" who don't know but who love us or maybe even like us and who are good people, who want to help US.

Just as the men here who are trying to better themselves and their lives, we have an obligation to ourselves to do the same. Our husbands or boyfriends need our support, yes, but not at the expense of our lives, that's too much for anyone to ask and its too much to be offered. If it becomes clear that it's happening, the only alternative is to put the breaks on and put up a force field to protect ourselves from the fallout. No one deserves abuse, in any form and if someone is doing that to you then finding a way out of it is the only way forward. I don't have any illusions that it's an easy task or that any words read here will be the final solution, but if this forum turns on a lightbulb for even one partner and enables her/him to turn the tide then it's as priceless as I believe it to be.

Don't kid yourselves that if you change for the better, your man will fall apart. It's BS, and even if he does, it's because he was going to anyway.

Ladies, I applaud your strength - you may not know it's there, but I see it. I read your words and I KNOW you are capable of taking back your lives. No one sees you in the mirror except you. That person deserves to smile more than cry.

ROCK ON..........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#299300 - 08/14/09 02:52 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: Trish4850]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
BRAVO Trish! Well said.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#299325 - 08/14/09 05:29 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: WalkingSouth]
MPackard Offline


Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 43
Loc: MS
Ditto Walkkingsouth....BRAVO TRISH. When I try to explain how I became an abused wife in my prior marriage no explaination seemed to make sense. One day I finally said "well, an abuser doesn't start out by punching you in the mouth...." I think that was when I began to realize that I had been so demoralized and terrorized by someone who was "ALSO" a charming and kind, loving husband. I began forgiving myself then. Only people who have been abused can understand that statement.


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#299362 - 08/14/09 10:18 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: MPackard]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Trish....you are right on the mark. Today was such a difficult day for me, and it is amazing how you just never see it coming. I asked my H today to try to understand that even if his emotional & verbal abuse is all in my head...I BELIEVE THAT IT IS TRUE. I really need him to help me, comfort me, maybe even have some empathy for me, couldn't he understand that I am in pain. His answer was that even though from time to time he is a nasty prick to me, I am too sensitive and do not let it go...that I love drama and am not happy unless I am miserable. Then he proceeded to tell me that I have borderline personality disorder...and that it has been me all these years that has been abusing him. I tried to ask him then why it is me, feeling so bad then...he said it was part of my disorder...and even though I abuse him he has overlooked it, because he doesn't harbor grudges. Everytime I wanted to discuss my pain...he yelled double talked, twisted, blamed,screaming at me that if I never admit to how I have disrespected him as a man..by not being the doting wife to his every whim, he busts his ass everyday and when he gets home, he should be obeyed. I think he said one of my most abusive behaviors was ordering pizza because I am to lazy to cook. By the time he was done, I was on the floor hysterical crying, emotionally numb, empty, and wishing to god he would just have hit me..so I would know that I am not nuts...and I am being abused. The sick part is once I was a broken shell on the floor...he could then comfort me. He said I needed to listen to myself...husbands and wives fight, that he loves me, and we should try to be nicer with each other..and he hopes I will be honest with my T, so that I can change my behavior. I did not even see it coming. Once again, I was left wracking my brain...wondering how I have blocked out all the abuse I have inflicted on him...and feeling bad that he has to put up with my instability.

Now hours later, my H is happy, in love with me...our past is behind us, we are starting fresh today, anything that happened yesterday or before...will never be discussed...because as he pointed out...one of my issues is I need to learn to let go. When he says it again...I am only to remember it that day, and I feel like a moron because I was played...AGAIN!!!


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#299369 - 08/15/09 03:00 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
"I am too sensitive and do not let it go...that I love drama and am not happy unless I am miserable." I have been told these EXACT words in the past. Ohhh yes, we LOVE being in pain and being sad all the time right? Please. I am so, so sorry you are in the place you are in. You didn't get played. You want to believe that he can be everything that says he is and more. You have a lot of support here. Lean on us!

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#299421 - 08/15/09 06:55 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: dangal]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
I didn't have much time last night to post....Thanks Trish for your post. It's nice to be understand and cared about. It does make it harder to see that you are being abused when it's all you knew. My whole life was about yelling and name calling and disfunction. I didn't "get" it for a long time that it was not ok.

It took him getting a neighbor mad at us for the fog to lift from my eyes. A teenager knocked on our door and ran off and Hubby went off on her and her friends. He was just scary. The parents didn't take too kindly to it and all the people who lived within earshot of his fits started telling me that they knew about my husbands issues. I was thinking huh? I really had no idea what they were talking about. I idolized Hubby at the time and when he said the girl was spoiled and no one had ever put her in her place before and that was why she was bouncing around where she pleased playing pranks on whomever. I stood by my man. When people over and over again said they could hear him ripping me apart from doors down and they were embarrassed for me....I could no longer see it as normal any longer. I had been married for years at this point....The training was well in place. I had the power to make him mad, to make him happy, to make him break things and to make him punch holes in the walls, if I wanted him to stop then I had to be good. Now I think wow, didn't know anyone was ohhh so all powerful!

I'm getting better, babysteps. I had a hard day yesterday, but I'm feeling Ok today so that IS progress. I remember a day not so far in the past when a bad day would have me in a funk for a long time. I was so wrapped up in them and him and how he felt that I couldn't function. I'm going to be Ok. I'm even smiling today Trish, and I have not cried once. I rock.

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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#299501 - 08/16/09 09:55 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: dangal]
honey girl Offline
Member

Registered: 10/09/06
Posts: 245
Loc: Midwest US
WOW, Trish. That was perfectly said.
NY Daisy, I hope that what is being posted here will be helpful to you. It is truly crazy-making to be in your position, having someone reduce you to tears and then (only then) being willing to comfort you! I have been there too, in a previous relationship, and it was horrible.
Good luck to all of us, pulling ourselves out of abusive situations. No one deserves to be treated badly, no matter what. No excuses.
Jen, you DO rock. You go, girl!

Peace,
HG

_________________________
I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger, a million miles away from home.

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#299525 - 08/16/09 01:42 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: honey girl]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Yes HoneyGirl it is comforting to know you are all here. My H has asked for 6 months. He wants us both to seek out counseling for ourselves...I;m already seeing one. Marriage couneling does not work for this situation...it wants to equalize the blame, and gives my H ammunition to excuse his behavior. I know that I am not a perfect person...I get that...but even if I have the tv on at night while the man is sleeping next to me...does not mean I am abusive or deserve his abuse...he wants me to go to bed at the same time as him...but does not want the TV on...by turning the TV on I am disrespecting him as a man...and abusing him for not obeying his authority...as my marriage vows said to do. First off I did not use the word OBEY when I got married, second if you are snoring next to me after 5 minutes how can the tv be bothering you?

This is some of the crazy things I deal with on a daily basis...he feels since he is Not nasty everyday...the pain I feel is ridiculous. He is convinced I have borderline personality disorder...because MY moods are so erractic. My T was astonished that he would make such a diagnosis without a degree.

So he is going to go to therapy....He is very concerned that I am lying to my T....who should be concerned that he is? I sincerely doubt he will even make the appointment, will keep everyone posted on that. Tried to pin point a time frame to find one but he wouldn't say. I feel the only thing he will gain if he does go...is new ways to abuse me, since he is convinced I AM THE ABUSER!!!!

I was trying to talk to him about how I have tried to be there for him since his disclosure, telling him how hard it has been, since he refuses to every share an emotion or feeling, that I have read everything, joined groups, ect...and thought it might help if he let me in more...his answer was that I have done NOTHING!!!! Nothing to help him. So I asked again what did he need? he said nothing, for me to stop trying to pin everything on his abuse...and see how my BPD is the real issue here.

MY QUESTION IS THIS..... WHY IS IT THAT THE MAN IN OUR LIVES WANT REASSURANCE THAT THEY WERE NOT TO BLAME FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM AS A CHILD OR OTHERWISE(which I do not think they are)....BUT DO NOT WANT TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ABUSE AND MISTREATMENT OF THEIR SPOUSEs, GIRLFRIENDS, AND CHILDREN? My H is convinced everyone in this house needs extensive therapy...except him. He can't see where he might have anything to do with it. When we did go to marriage counseling I told the guy I see what our disfunction is doing to the kids...and my H didn't think it had anything to do with it at all.

I've got 6 months...


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#299824 - 08/18/09 09:25 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Daisy, what happens after 6 months, more importantly, what has to happen for you after 6 months? He asked for that time, you've agreed to it. You are already doing what he suggested by seeing your own counselor. What if he doesn't? What if he does and nothing changes? What if you become a stronger, healthier person and he resents it? I know you can't see in to the future, but as John said earlier in this thread, a line in the sand needs to be drawn. If your husband suggested the time line and the course that should be taken, then he has an obligation to follow through with it, just as you do. Six months is a VERY short period of time in therapy, especially to one who seems to have dug in his heels and believes that he's not doing anything to contribute to the problems. I suggest you talk to your counselor very seriously about your line and then talk to your husband about it. If the two of you can't come to an agreement that you will do this and he will do that and both of you will really work toward a common goal then the marriage and the family will stagnate. I think you would agree it's not an acceptable ending. You want to do more than survive a bad marriage and I'm sure you want the same for your children; who doesn't?

Keep talking Daisy, until you figure out where your line is, not your breaking point.

ROCK ON.......Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#301887 - 09/06/09 03:38 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: Trish4850]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
hi all...here is my update. He says he has found a therapist. I do not know if this is true because I am not allowed to ask about it, it is none of my business because I told him that my T has been monitoring my sessions and has concluded that I DO NOT HAVE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER. This is the latest mental disorder my H has diagnosed me with. He then mocked me,"Of course he did Daisy, he probably told you that you were sane, right Daisy...did he tell you that you were sane and all your problems are from your Fcked up husband? Right is that how it went? how can you expect him to make a diagnosis when you sit there and lie. Have you told him how you sometimes can't sleep? have you told him when you get up your moods are all over the place? Have you told him all the things you have done to me? of course not, your a saint, your husband is the F'd up one. so what did he say Daisy?" at this point I am in shock( still not sure why it always surprises me)and tell him that I don't feel comfortable telling him what my T has said, so he said good remember that because whats good for the goose is good for the gander, do not ask me about mine.

So I had told him that I would like to have him at some point come in and give his take on us, so that my T can see things from your perspective. I asked him this BEFORE this rant. So this Monday I have a session and since he has off and I wouldn't have to rearrange my scheduled session to work around his availability. Well I got another 20 minute rant on how he was having a garage sale, and I am sabotaging his garage sale, and how he wanted to have it on Saturday but he decided to work part of the day and I had the audacity to be busy at our H.S. age son's first HS football game and he was starting center. He called me selfish, so I ask him what is more important the garage sale or you helping me fix this. He told me it wasn't the point, then proceeds to tell me he is not going to feed into my drama ( HUH????) are you coming or not? Yes I'll go. GOOD. then I walked away.

Today I told him I called my T to tell him he was coming, and that started a barage of more crap. He says he has had two sessions and in those two sessions of less than 2 full hours, he has filled her in on EVERYTHING, his abuse, our 20 yr marriage and the only problem she can see is that I am going through early menopause due to having cancer 11yrs ago, and those two things combined have made me emotionally and hormonally unbalanced, and messed up. He said that even though he has said a few mean things, it is by NO MEANS ABUSE, In FACT I SEEM MORE ABUSIVE THAN HIM, and for something to be truly abusive it must be done EVERYDAY. WHAT?????? My H was abused by his brother from 8 to 15, are you saying he sexually abused you everyday for 7 straight years? and you are fine. Sadly I only got this assessment after he started to tell me what she had said, then had said no, forget it, and I said please tell me, and he said tell me what your T says, and I said please again, and it went on till I was in tears begging him to tell me, and he said why do you want to know so bad, and my answer was because I WOULD GIVE ANYTHING FOR THIS TO BE ALL MY FAULT, I could work on fixing my problems, and lucky girl that I am....he delivered. IT IS ALL MY FAULT.

I find this all so disheartening. Sadly even though he knows our problems are based on personality disorders I have, he went back to Narcissistic personality disorder, because i'm very self centered(as of today) and on my hormonal imbalances, he still cannot give me an ounce of understanding or compassion. I asked him why he was not happy I did not have BPd and he said because he thinks that I manipulated my T and do really have it. I asked him why he is not trying to help me with my issues and his answer was because I keep accusing him of verbal and emotional abuse and that puts him on the defensive and he must protect himself from me and my drama. I offered him 6 months, I do not think we will make that, and honestly I think he has always wanted me to end it, so that once again he can be the victim, and not have to take any responsibility for the demise of it.

My T says I have anxiety, and I'm depressed. He did not say that his said anything was wrong with him. He manipulated me again. My T is going to hypnotize me, and also said that EMDR might work since I have been abused. Has anyone heard of EMDR being used for emotional and verbal abuse?

Does anyone out there agree that abuse must happen everyday to be abuse?


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#301911 - 09/06/09 10:22 AM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
Lou Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 100
Wikipedia: Abuse refers to the use or treatment of something (a person, item, substance, concept, idea or vocabulary) that is harmful.

I don't think there is anything in this definition that says this must happen every day to be abuse.

Abuse is abuse and is totally unacceptable. It comes in many different shapes and sizes, but is still unacceptable.

It seems to me that if one is doing anything, and I mean anything that puts another in harms way....that is abuse!

For the life of me, I will never understand why someone who one self has been abused and knows how that feels or felt, would want to turn around and abuse the very one that they supposedly love? Aren't we suppose to honor and love and protect those we love from harms way?

One's past is no excuse, abuse is abuse.

Please NYD, you deserve so much more!

Warm and safe hugs.
Lou


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#301923 - 09/06/09 12:35 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: Lou]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
Hi Daisy,

One thing that struck me about this most recent post is where you ask your husband why he is not helping you. His reply: because you are accusing him, etc.,...and he must protect himself. He is protecting himself. There. He said it. Whether it makes sense to you or not, that is what he's working with. He is not perceiving your attempts at helping the relationship as help. It does seem that you are taking what are considered normal steps to recovery, but he isn't in that place. And as we all know, only he can get himself to that place.

Someone earlier on mentioned "crazy making" behavior and it seems to me this is what your husband is doing. I remember reading this same term in (I think it was) "If the Man You Love Was Abused." You are trying to reason with him and figure out how to work together. He is trying to confound the situation because he doesn't know how to/doesn't want to deal with it.

There is another book I read called "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans. I used to try to reason with my husband until I saw these out of control conversations, accusations, insults, etc. for what they were: an attempt at control and nothing more. She advocated saying things like "STOP THIS RIGHT NOW." or "I SEE YOU. I SEE WHAT YOU ARE DOING." Engaging in meaningless conversations only makes them crazier.

Are you actually trying to determine whether your husband is correct when he says abuse must happen every day to be abusive? Daisy, this is not reasoning. This is him trying to control his life. Of course, I have no right to make such a definitive statement, since I'm not in the situation. But looking in from the outside, given what you describe, that is how it looks to me. What do you think?

Stay strong. Work with your T to find and draw your lines as the others have mentioned. (((Daisy)))

love,
Riz


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#301928 - 09/06/09 01:12 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Daisy,

My heart really does go out to you. I'm not there seeing this thing pan out between you and he nor am I a mental health professional so I can only speak to what I see you describing as having happened between you and him. I think it's time to take care of you now. If there is a child involved and it appears there is you also need to take care of his needs as best you can. Forget the six months.

As my sig line says, Albert Einstein once said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” While I'm not accusing either of you of insanity the point remains that as things currently stand, it's just not working. Time for a different approach. Time to put an end to the continuing drama if for no other reason than to remove the tinder from such close proximity to the fire. Doesn't matter if he wants you to end it so he can once again play the victim. It's not your problem. He needs to be alone with his thoughts as do you. Combining them in the same house is not working.

Only by setting a boundary on the kinds of behavior you'll accept in the relationship you will ever have hope of repairing the relationship.

As I read your post I began to wonder what your H's relationship with his mother was like, or if not his mother then some other female authority figure in his life. The reason I ask is that often a person will choose someone to enter into relationship with, with which they can continue to attempt to work out their unresolved childhood issues. I'm wondering if he could be using you as a surrogate for an authority figure in his young life with which to continue the drama, this time hoping for a different result.

Just some thoughts. Please take care of yourself. You deserve much better than what you're getting.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#302680 - 09/13/09 02:43 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: Pisces]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Hello Everyone....here is another update. I wanted my H to go with me to my T, but my T had to cancel our appt. so I went with him to his. WHAT AN EYE OPENER. First off she did not want to define my H's behavior of me as abuse, she told me the word is negative and not needed. She then explained to me that I MUST JUST FORGET IT EVER HAPPENED. (WHAT??????) yes thats correct, she said the way to get over any kind of abuse is to just put it behind me and move on. You felt bad yesterday, today is a new day, start fresh, consider each day new. She told me that I am stuck in this mindset and need to just get over it. GET OVER WHAT? WE WON"T EVEN NAME IT.

I tried to explain that I disagree with this, I asked if she had any experience with emotional and verbal abuse, she of course said yes. I asked if she would tell someone who was being beaten to just forget it, my H explained that "of course not we would make sure that the person was moved to a safe place, and protected. " do you realize that battered woman say it is the mental abuse that is worse. Then my h proceeded to say that if he thought like me and hung on to his abuse, he wouldn't be functioning. He said it happened and he let it go. REALLY???? THen why do you question your sexuality, treat me with disregard, hurt your kids? right. Think about that. thank god you just let it go.

Bottom line left there, promising to forget any of the abuse I have gone through in the past, he gets to keep himself in his self deluded state, and NO ONE EVER GETS TO HEAL. This woman is a QUACK.


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#302789 - 09/14/09 03:53 PM Re: may trigger....abused wives? who cares? [Re: NY Daisy]
dangal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 222
Loc: seattle area
WOW! Wow. I'm so blessed that my husband is in a place here in Seattle that specializes in male childhood sexual abuse. I've not met the woman but just knowing that she is a specialist helps me know he is in good hands. I started group in his facility with a therapist from the center and she knows her stuff. It's a group for spouses.

I've seen baby steps these past few months although I have plenty to worry about. Just because of who he is. I've not been invited to his therapy. However, my husband has long ago admitted that he abused me and hurt me so I have let go of the need to point it out since that part has gotten so much better. IF your husband owned it, saw it and apologized for it you might be able to move forward from it. You'll never be able to until you know that he GETS, really gets what he has done to you. Period. I'm so sorry.

_________________________
~Jen~
Life is to short to blend in

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