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#298324 - 08/07/09 01:25 AM curious to know...
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
ive been here since february, i have tried so hard to forgive.

I can't seem to find it in my heart to let go of all the hatred, that has consumed me. i seem to need it .

i have for many years (40) felt the guilt and shame of being abused.

Now, empowered, i have switched modes, from victim to angry man.

now i am he who wants to wear his hatred as a badge that i was wronged ...

that it was not me that gave in willingly to being sexualized...

by a person who scared me into doing things that were never in my nature before he groomed me into doing so.

I know that i need to forgive to move on.

Why do I enjoy the hatred so much ???

what will it take for me to move foreward???

this hurts so bad.

nomansanisland

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#298332 - 08/07/09 03:12 AM Re: curious to know... [Re: nomansanisland]
philistine Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 211
Loc: Oregon
Hatred provide fire for forward momentum?

_________________________
Mike

"No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself" - Nietzsche

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#298349 - 08/07/09 10:06 AM Re: curious to know... [Re: philistine]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Hi, NML.

When I got to the place where I was ready I was able to with help forgive myself which for me needed to come before I forgave him/my perp.

I read the book "Abused Boys" by Mic Hunter and when I was ready I completed the forgiveness tasks.

I needed others to listen to me and my story.

You will get there. Be patient with yourself. You have carried this for awhile and it is apart of you.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#298353 - 08/07/09 11:04 AM Re: curious to know... [Re: nomansanisland]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
i don't think you've really left the victim label stage yet noman,; now it seems you've progressed onto the 'angry victim' stage' based on
Quote:
now i am he who wants to wear his hatred as a badge that i was wronged


i think there's your key right there. and don't diminish the importance of that. you got to that realization in a few short months. brother, THAT IS PROGRESS. you must be drinking the right koolaide!

next stage after righteous indignation?

to learn how to get to the place within yourself where the thought label 'i was wronged' loses its power as a self identifier, and merely become accepted as an observation, as a neutral fact that it was something that happened, and to disinvest emotionally from that fact.

at the risk of seeming to be preaching, i'm going to step out on a limb here and defer to your christian faith. i believe from reading your posts that you have a relationship with/to christ. i'm not preaching, but rather trying to find a some common ground to discuss the victim modality here. [if you find this offensive, let me know and i will edit it out cool] . in the same sense that he was a blameless target/victim of a different kind of abuse, so were we targets of abusive acts, and we, like him, were victimized by those acts. we did nothing to warrant them being inflicted on us, but nonetheless, like him, we were. he faced that victimization as we did, like a lamb led to the slaughter, as we did. his life was cut off in the victimization, as was ours. his death a physical one, but ours a psychic/spiritual one.

what's the point? the joy of his resurrection to new life separated him from his past, and it became clear as mud that his life had been so much more than a mere happenstance, that his life was so much more than his abusers in their minds defined it to be. he was exulted. he could not have been exulted had he stayed on that cross, or tried to climb back up onto it after rising, or stayed behind the stone. no he left the past where it belonged : in the past.

he had spent his three days in hell...... a prerequisite for being exulted. and that hell is a place where many of us get stuck, clinging to the notion that we are eternal victims, we never allow the rest of the story to unfold because, for one reason, we don't know how to live outside the label. there is no methodology for getting there. and so for lack of a handbook telling us 'how not to be a victim' we remain the victim, each of us clinging to its many modes of expression: angry victim, the isolated victim, the disassociated victim, the whistling in the dark-victim, the survivor victim, the thriver victim.

i believe this is the supreme damage that our victimization experiences netted for us, yet it's the least obvious. we focus on the fact that we lost our innocence, our virginity, our right to self-determine, our sexual identity confusion, our capability to realize THE BIG DREAM for our own lives...all those things are true, but we rarely seem to realize that the worst of what we lost is the ability to not live as victims; that we have the power to restore ourselves to better than we were before these things happened to us. imagine that! the stone of victimization rolled away!

the question is, do we really want to take the responsibility for owning our resurrection phase, living free from the self label of victimization.

is it possible that we can have a life truly free from the effects of our past victimization, and move on as if it never happened? i believe the answer is yes. to the extent that we can remove our emotional attachment to the mentality of victim keeping us entombed, and disinvested, begin to see it objectively, as something that 'was' the case, then to that extent we will begin to move beyond the tar and feathers of sexual victimization.

christ is a model of hope and inspiration showing that this can happen. but as long as we remain on the cross, or in the grave, hell's 'three' days, it will be impossible to be released into our own freedom from the abuse of the past.

those are my immediate thoughts about the subject, so please forgive me if have misspoken here.

all the best,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#298395 - 08/07/09 06:53 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: nomansanisland]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: nomansanisland

I know that i need to forgive to move on.



Whom do you need to forgive? Yourself, or him?

When I came to realize after years of self inflicted shame and guilt that I did nothing wrong, and that having a male body that was reactive, and responsive was outside of my control, I moved right to anger. I was angry that I was exploited and used. Some days now I get really angry again, but for the most part I have simply relegated it to my history file. Its part of my history, whether I like it or not. Nothing I can say, or do will change that. It happened. It is part of who I am now.

Forgive him? Never. No can do. One, he's dead. Two, I am confident that I was not the only one who he hurt. Until such time as we are all gathered together, (unlikely) it would be in my mind disrespectful of the others to forgive without hearing from the others. So, no. I will never ever forgive him for what he did to me, what he made me become, and what he stole from me, and those who I love. Never.

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#298399 - 08/07/09 07:15 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: Sans Logos]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
Thank you gentle men.

Phlistine, you are correct in your idea that my hatered will provide the fire for me to move on to my next stage. I realized that as soon as i re-read my own entry. It is as much of a fire towards rebirth as is my own acceptance that i was abused and did not bring it upon myself. i have always been "a pick your self up and brush your self off kind of guy..."

DJ , thanks for your insight, you too are correct. i did need to forgive my own self in order to move foreward. I still cannot imagine myself forgiving someone who has wrecked so much in me. I can only dream of the day that i do forgive. i see myself stepping more towards that goal as i open up and share with others. i cannot face the graphicness of it all, as i would rather dress it up so i can stomach it. Somewhat like calling a train wreck an accident.i have ordered the book and will move foreward. There has been this saddness in me, since joining and also such joy comming from actually discussing this all for the first time in my life. Thank you for helping me see things more clearly.

Ron, I dont find anything that you said to be offensive. I wrote the post on the spirituality thread as this is my chosen avenue for coping with this all.I know that forgiveness is expected and it has rocked my own spirituality to hold this position.I have always thought that taking the position that my step father was a child of perdition, a lost soul , an infidel or a native not reachable, therefore i was able to say forgiveness is wasted on him, he is the blackest of souls and there is no conversion for him. with that said i have been able to move foreward in my life. i have in a small way forgiven him for being a barbarian, it is his nature, he see's no wrong in the way he shaped his own paradigm.

As, you stated, i had no choice in my loss of innocence, self determination, and most greatly the chance to realize "the big dream" for myself with out the stigma of Csa constantly being there. Therein lies the direction of my haterd. Yes, the world is not fair, and i well know that , as does anyone on this site...I reamin open to change and accept this as another layer that has been peeled back from my facade.I want to trhnk you for contributing to my moving foreward , it means alot. I am left alone with my thoughts on all this and i am greatful for some conversation on what my mind has done with this.Thanks again to all of you.
as ever,
Nomansanisland

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#298425 - 08/07/09 11:49 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: nomansanisland]
JayH Offline


Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 5
Originally Posted By: nomansanisland

Why do I enjoy the hatred so much ???


Do you really enjoy it? I know I used to believe that if I did something over and over that it must mean I enjoy doing it, but I don't think that anymore.

I'm not sure about the forgiveness part. I do know that it didn't take me very long before I asked God to forgive him. Probably mostly looking for relief and believing it to be the right thing to do. I'm pretty sure it helped.

Asking myself right now if I have forgiven him though, I can't say for sure. I know that forgiving is not forgetting. And I know that there is no resentment - or re-feeling of the original feelings anymore. But I can't intellectually say that it is possible to forgive him for doing what he did to me. But I'm pretty sure I have. Doesn't mean I'd invite him in for coffee though!


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#298486 - 08/08/09 04:30 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: JayH]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Hi, NML and others.

I was amiss in my statement which I have rewritten below when I used the words "forgave him/my perp". I meant to use the word "dealt" not forgive. I have not nor will I ever forgive him. He inappropriately invaded my body due to his own sefish teenage pride.

I meant to say - "When I got to the place where I was ready I was able to with help forgive myself which for me needed to come before I dealt him/my perp."

Sorry for any confusion. I believe we DO NOT have to forgive another for the wrong they have caused. Even if asked for forgiveness.

I DO believe in self forgiveness for better health.

Rock on my brothers.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#298564 - 08/09/09 11:38 AM Re: curious to know... [Re: DJsport]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Hatred (or a lot of other emotions, too) makes people feel powerful and gives the illusion of control, I feel; and I feel those feelings can become addictive. I know from my experience at least.

I guess I feel it can start to control YOU after a while of living it, and it's a very hard habit to break. When you spend so much time and energy on something, it can only get bigger, right? It sort of becomes the only thing keeping you "safe." But really, you're hurting yourself from the tension.

We seem to forget we can choose what to feel (by choosing what we focus on)...at least in my opinion.

Also, on the other point...

Never once did Dad ever feel sorry or sad for what happened because of my guilting and hating him and not forgiving.

The only person that my non-forgiveness ever hurt was ME and the ulcers I probably got.

Yeah, you don't *have* to forgive, but it's much better for your sanity.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#298566 - 08/09/09 01:02 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: AndyJB2005]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
I find it impossible to love when I'm filled with hate. I'm know it's neither mine nor original in thought, but that's always my motivation when I've been filled with this kind of emotion over other things. Just so I'm not misrepresenting myself, I'm not even to the stage of having real anger or hatred with the perp yet. It still feels like I'm reporting the news that happened to someone else. Liked "you bastard" though...I'm trying to write my own as a self help idea...get my anger stirred up...thanks for the inspiration.

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#298581 - 08/09/09 02:49 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: sono]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 856
Loc: Kc,Mo
all hate does is effect you , not the other person chances are they have went on about their business and not even acknowledge that they have wronged you in any way. and "this goes for any kind of hate not just the hate for abusers"

so holding on to this hate is like they still have control and or power over your life in some way, by letting this hate go they no longer can have that kind of power in your life. by staying filled with hate that means they have all the power, and you can only change when they decide to change. so you can either change yourself or continue to be angry at some one until they change . {may be never}.

so do not give any one that kind of power in your life, satan would love for you to stay angry than he does not have to do anything but sit back and enjoy the show. do not let him have that kind of power in your life either , in other words do not do the will of satan , that is why the word teaches forgiveness because when you hold on to Unforgiveness it lives in your heart, and you can not serve to masters . choose one and choose wisely .
it is hard but what in life is not hard, make up your mind and fight for peace of mind and fight for your freedom from hatred . may the peace of forgiveness rest on you . god bless you and good luck.

_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#298845 - 08/11/09 12:36 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: nltsaved]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
for my own health, i ve decided to forgive.
i will never forget
i understand why others here choose not to forgive
i need closure
i must have a foreward momentum
that i get to control
forgiveness is the beginning for me
knowing that he was just a man
that it all was just a sad act
of desperation
that i was available and handy
there was much fear involved
that is my next challenege
knowing that i
need to move foreward
knowing that i must not let my fear keep me silent.

thanks to all who shared. i am humbled

patrick no man is an island ...i now that now.

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#298884 - 08/11/09 07:17 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: nomansanisland]
Tedure Offline


Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 203
Loc: Utah
You are SOOOOOOOOOOOO RIGHT!

Thanks, Ted

_________________________
When you change the way you look at things the things you look at change.

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#298885 - 08/11/09 07:34 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: nomansanisland]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
yes patrick, he was only 'a miserable man'; a pathetic creature. once that realization was made about the perp/s, i was able to move beyond the victim mentality, and get on with the business of surviving and thriving. thanks for the reminder and the verification.

all the best,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#298943 - 08/12/09 04:05 AM Re: curious to know... [Re: Sans Logos]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 862
Loc: washington
no man is an island,

I had problems in trying to wrap my mind around forgiveness before I was somehow led to the concept of pardon/ing. (I forget the source).

Just a spoonfull of sugar makes the medicine go down. (and make no mistake I took the medicine for my own wellbeing).

The reason I bring this up, is because, I had to cross this bridge more than once.

Hope I've helped,


Forgiven (Allanis Morrisette)

island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#299910 - 08/19/09 04:22 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: 1islandboy]
mrd Offline


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 28
My Brothers

Knowing Jesus has taught me a lot about forgiveness. He being sinless layed his life down for me. So I could live forever with Him, the Father, and believers. And me just like Peter has denied him three times, well for me its been more than three. Yet he loves me still. He has taught me to accept the fact I'm not prefect. But God is made perfect in my weakness. Most people think it is weak to forgive. I believe it is being obedient to God which gives me a power I can't explain. But it gives me the ability to be free from the trap of hatered that has caused lots of folks great pain including my abuser and me. If I forgive then God may forgive them and then we can live in eternity as we all were meant to be. Its kinda like braking the cycle.

peace and love
mrd

_________________________
Ignorance is the most dangerous element in human society.

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#299916 - 08/19/09 05:10 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: mrd]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Patrick,

It took till I was able to understand that he choose to abuse not because of who I am or something I did. But because of his own sick sexual needs and his inability to have them met in a normal adult manner with another adult. Was I able to come to the point of being able to forgive him. Until I was able to see it was only about him and not me. I just happened to be a vulnerable child whom he had easy excess to. And I know for a fact I was not the only victim of sick sexual behaviors. He continue these behaviors into old age in fact he spent most of his 70's in prison because of these behaviors he was unable to control.
But it took me awhile to finally realize who really had the issue. When I learned to allowed him to be responsible for his own behaviors I no longer did I need to hate him. And to let go and learn to live my own life.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#300145 - 08/21/09 07:16 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: michael banks]
GentleSoul Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 237
Loc: Manhattan
Doods,

It's okay to hate and it's okay to be angry! That's one of the things a very wise old Mod told me once a while back. You don't have to be ashamed that you're angry or you have so much hatred. It's totally okay! Trying to control emotions is almost, always impossible. My parents shamed me for crying or showing anger. Fcuk! What do old skool peeps know? It's okay to be mad dood. According to the words of Andy, "What happened to you was wrong and you have a right to be angry." Feel the anger and express it in healthy ways: throw rotten eggs at George W. Bush's picture, scream your lungs off in rush hour, don't wear foundation for a day! Anger is like 'em storms, eh? Sooner or later they gon' dissipate and you can start singing, "I Can See Clearly Now" (Jimmy Cliff's version of course). As one actress said from the movie "Death Proof" by Q. Tarantino, "Before you can claim a #!88@, you've got to CLAIM a #!88@..." Feel it, don't run away from it... You gon' be so empowered playa! Peace and keep it gangsta!!

Jay

_________________________
I can finally admit I pretend to say and do nice things so people will think I'm a standout guy.

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#300149 - 08/21/09 08:07 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: GentleSoul]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11174
Loc: Denver, CO
Uh oh, I'm being quoted. Someone was listening to me. smile
Thanks, Jay.

Legitimate anger has its place. Often times the anger can be secondary to something deeper, some hurt. Finding the means to share it can be challenging, but is possible.

I've read so many times the verse that states "Be angry, but sin not." This tells me anger is allowed, but must be tempered. I can't just explode and take out everything in an emotional square mile around me. That would be abusive in itself. I have found from personal experiences that when certain feelings are allowed and processed, the anger goes away on its own. But to be honest, at times I've fooled myself, and found myself angry at topic X again when I thought it was done and over with.

It takes time, but anger processed in healthy ways can be done and over with. Patience with self in this long, healing process helps.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#300200 - 08/22/09 12:56 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: michael banks]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
there may be a difference here,

did you get to have justice??? i did not ...my abuser still walks this earth an innocent man...( so he thinks)...you have some justice as he went to prison for what he did to someone...mine continues to ruin my family and its dynamics...nomansanisland

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#300201 - 08/22/09 01:02 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: nomansanisland]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11174
Loc: Denver, CO
Being of a spiritual bend, I tend to let God handle the aspect of justice. You know that verse that says "what a man sows, that will he also reap"? In my case, one perp is dead by Parkinsons, another is old and dealing with her fourth round of cancer, and the third one I scared the crud out of when I popped up into his life after 32 years. Based on these instances, they have been dealt with in ways that I could not have thought of or controlled. Don't get me wrong, I don't wish death or suffering on anyone. I just know that things work themselves out through God's universal laws in motion.

Honestly, we may never see those who hurt us come to any true sense of "justice," but this does not prevent us from processing our hurts and sharing them with caring souls willing to listen and support. In my case, emotional debts from others have been processed and therefore able to be canceled. If I don't cancel them, I am burdened the rest of my life with "unfinished business." I just hate having red ink on the emotional books.

Andy

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#300204 - 08/22/09 01:46 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: FormerTexan]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
andy...
I love it!!
I love it!!!

so right, so on the money...I love the emotional debts as being cancelled and paid. thanks so much for your imput. nomansanisland

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#300210 - 08/22/09 02:57 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: nomansanisland]
TJ jeff Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 3389
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
Justice - it's something that is extremely hard to understand for those of us who have not been able to put our perps in prison (in my case - it was an uncle - no one in the family knows about it)

I know it can often seem that we are the only ones who know the real truth - but... we are'nt - God knows - and... all of us here in this site know

for me personaly - my faith in justice in regards to my past comes from a>
_________________________
Who will cry for the little boy? - I will... - Antwone Fisher

Abuse happens in silence/isolation - Recovery happens only when that silence/isolation is broken...

TJ's History

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#300214 - 08/22/09 03:16 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: TJ jeff]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2452
Loc: TEXAS
Hi my fraternal brothers,

I'm closer to TJ's way of thinking.

All my sexual abusers are dead.

But even in my confusion on religion (right now), I'll have to go on what God had promised, just like what TJ refers to.

" I will take that lost boys hand, and i will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity".

Heal well my fraternal brothers, heal well.

Little Pete & big Pete. but 1 (Irishmoose),

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#303738 - 09/22/09 06:32 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: sono]
rebecca24 Offline


Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 34
Loc: AZ
Hatred is fuel but it can also keep you from moving forward. try to move out of the situation with an affirmation. The cannot stay too long as itwill make you bitter and hurt the people around you. A man whoturns victim into soilder and helps to make hate into peace can do much more for a world of healing

Say something that you wish to practice in a w eeek a month etc. keepajournal and write down why the hate is there what is motivation to move out of it or stay there and set goals daily to move past this


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#303779 - 09/22/09 11:54 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: rebecca24]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
rebecca24
thanks for the suggestions. I am at this time letting heavenly father take care of cariing the burden till i have the strength to carry it all by my self.I have tried positive affirmations and i do believe they help out. I start my day with a good thought and try to accomplish what i am supposed to be each day doing for myself, make goals and try to live a life that i am proud of.i have allowed this process to help with the forgiveness aspect. I am here beacvuse i want changes and healing. realizing that hatred is neagtive to my spritiual growth, I can say that i am a work in progress...thanks for your imput.

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#303810 - 09/23/09 08:08 AM Re: curious to know... [Re: nomansanisland]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6601
Loc: FEMA Region 1
I was fortunate enough to be able to cut the chains and walk away. The chain cutter, as you may recall, was my forgiviness of "them." NOTHING felt better than that forgiveness.

I struggled with witht the forgiviness the bible said I should afford them...struggled for decades. It was not until Rob Bell said "you do TRULY forgive someone until you also wish them well."

I hope I'm not off-base with this entry.

_________________________
I'm "that guy."

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#303816 - 09/23/09 09:28 AM Re: curious to know... [Re: Still]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
You're spot on, Robbie. Forgiving is better than hating. You can still dislike, but you give up on hating because there simply isn't anything there to hate.


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#303831 - 09/23/09 12:07 PM Re: curious to know... [Re: LilacLouie]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Great post. For me, I had to forgive myself for what happened. To realize it was his behaviors that were out of line. I don't know that I have really forgiven him for what he did to me as a child.
But I had to let go of my anger and desire for vengeance towards him. Because it kept me chain to him and what he did to me. And was slowly poisoning me.
I had to allow God to be the one to past judgement on his behaviors and what he did too me.
Learned late last year that he died from ALS/mnd a year ago June. And suffered with it the last couple years of his life.
In the end he learn what it was like to be helpless and at the mercy of something outside of his control. So in a way he got a taste of his own medicine. And has given me some sense of justice.

AlS/MND/MS are called the wasting dieases because you slowly loss voluntary muscle contol of your body.
Maybe there is justice in the unverse. Because this disease is worst then anything I imagined doing to him.
Alot slower too.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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