Well, when I say Utah I guess I mean the 4 corners area, Utah, New Mexico, Colorado & Arizona. I'm awed by the deserts and the history of the area. And my love of 4x4's makes this the ultimate playground, even if my "overconfidence" ( stupidity is what I really mean ) nearly killed us not far from Escalante when I drove a Jeep off the edge of the map, got lost and got stuck !! But we've been back there and still love it. The Mormons aren't a problem, or they haven't been in my experience. Not once has anyone pushed their religion at us, or even said "by the way, I'm a Mormon". But the only sight of Salt Lake City we've had was heading south on I 15, I believe it's a bit different there.
The main reason we want to move away is that I live very close to where my abuse went on and my home town where I grew up, the whole area within a 10 mile radius is riddled with unhappy memories. My job also means I drive around a larger area as well, into small towns where I know my abusers still live. One lives in the same village as my parents.
We have no kids, my brother's already in Canada, so what's stopping us ? 25 years of employment is what, I have to hang on another 4 or so until I can get my early retirement package from this shit job that gets worse by the day. It's sad to think that I put up with this just for the money, but I suppose I must. Some days I've nearly shoved the spanners up the bosses arse and walked, it's been very close.
Like you Cement, a "warped humour" get's me a long way, if I don't get into trouble first.
And Michael, he's also right when he says- I don't let my boss win, I will not walk out without my pension, and I will NEVER let my abusers win, I'm so much better than them.
Lloydy

VERY FUNNY ABOUT OHIO!!!!!!!.....joking........to think i moved back here, i'm actually considering a move to maine or somewhere cool......maybe even cape cod if i could deal with the tourists all summer......i guess in my case, my ABUSER HAS WON!!!!!!! to pretend or say otherwise would be ridiculous.....but i do not think he did those things to me to win.....i honestly believe he loved me, he just did not realize how much of me he destroyed in the process.....i have not seen him in 7 years and really do not think i ever want to see him again, but a very big part of me still loves him......and HATES myself.....i really do not think that is ever going to change......i guess i've given up on ever finding love, but i would like to touch a few peoples live's before i die......just not sure how........life just hurts so much at times.....well, most of the time for me.......michael

Michael,

Your perp DID NOT love you. He may have said that, but love does not lead to abuse. Loving him does not say anything bad about you. We all want someone to love and to love us. But please do not confuse your abuse with love.

Real love is out there and it does not abuse us.

Ken

Arizona is the place to go...The Arizona Strip...one of the wildest and neatest places in the US...four wheeler's heaven..have driven out over 30 times and flown out a few more! Fly into Vegas and have a 4X4 waiting for you...just 200 miles to heaven at 100 miles an hour...good roads...no pigs!!! Get there bad roads and almost no one...the North Rim of The Grand Cayon has over 2000 miles of bad dirt roads on the topo maps...see the Cayon from 100's of over looks...just live out there...no one cares!!!!

Eddie

Eddie
I've done the tourist thing at the canyon twice now, helicopter rides the whole works, and it's a truly fabulous place. We stopped at a motel at Seven Mile Village ( I think ) and the owner was a 4 wheeler who made me so green with envy at the trails to drive. There's so much peace and tranquility there, despite the thousands of tourists, you only have to make a bit of effort and you're out of it. The grandeur of the canyon and the history of the native Americans who settled there make this one of my favorite places. And Vegas is sooo much fun, I don't gamble but we put aside a $100 for a few days and wander about the casino's losing it and people watching- my favorite pastime. As you might guess I love the USA.

Michael, Ken says it all, there's no love in the kind of abuse we endured. What they said was love was nothing more than someone with power and influence over us misusing it. What we gave them back was subservience. They told us it was love or affection, they lied and we believed them.
The golden rule of all abusers is to tell the victim "This is our secret" it's cast in stone that one. Once we tell someone, anyone, it's no longer a secret.
And you're right about the tourists in Cape Cod, we're a pain in the arse !!
I'm looking forward to our next trip to the States, but my wife has left her very well paying job and times are hard. Maybe I could give up drinking and smoking, eating out, my jeep....
Lloydy

You telling me not to love my uncle is very easy, but me feeling that way is another matter....I guess i do not love him now, but i remember how deeply i loved him for my entire childhood, i guess until i spent a weekend with him when i was 15.....i'm pretty sure he raped me that weekend....even thinking about him coming into the bathroom when he knew i was taking a shower, sends cold shivers down my spine.....i've blacked out everything from him entering the room......a few days after i returned home i began sleep-walking and attempted suicide the first time a few weeks later.....but i remember the feelings of love, of adoration i had for my uncle....i actually had forgotten the depth of my feelings for him, but i will never forget now......i know i still care for him even now......i have not seen him in 7-8 years and will probably never see him again......but in many ways, i just kind of pity him.......i realize that if he did those things to me, something similar probably happened to him......all i know is that i could have very easily become a perpetrator back when i was a teenager if not for my inner strength of knowing it was wrong to do that to a little boy, but i was very tempted and came very close......i guess even though i'm not certain i believe in god, i have to thank him for giving me the strength not to abuse that little boy back then.........michaelb

Michael
I've been reminded just how close we come to becoming perp's ourselves by a tv programe that had an interview with a pedo, it's scary !!
But that inner strength you talk about must have guided us somehow, and I bet it still does, we've gotten this far haven't we !
Lloydy

Michael...

Every minute you are able to fight against an impulse, every day you are able to go on is a victory against your abuser.

I can totally understand the mixed feelings regarding love and blame. I asked my sister for my abuse, ultimately, and when she stopped, I didn't want to stop. I loved her and if she loved me, why would she stop showing it? But, you see, she was older and IN CHARGE OF ME, I was her responsibility. She knew it was wrong, and to aleviate her own guilt, she manipulated the situation so I would seem at least at guilty as she was.

Even as I write, I start to fall back into language that seems like it almost shares the guilt.

I hope you can see in my case, as I can in yours, that the perp is the problem, and the perp USED the guise of love to satisfy their own manipulative, thoughtless acts of torture.