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#297771 - 08/02/09 09:08 AM Spock as role model?? got your own?
sono Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Hi, This is one of my first posts (my first time beginning a thread)and haven't put up my story yet, but I don't think my details are important in this question. In spite of the subject, this didn't land here from a Sci Fi forum!

The question or conversation topic is; do any of you old enough remember having used Mr. Spock from Star Trek as a role model?

He had two halves- many of us were living two lives;
had problems reconciling those different halves - check...
had problems then, do now;
the unemotional one takes over in the emotional situations-
the unemotional one still does that, a lot;
every now and then when the right situation occurs he loses control and all hell breaks lose-oh yes!

Hope this isn't too silly, but I remember consciously trying to adopt that manner as a kid, and as I grew up I laughed at myself for imitating a TV character as a kid, while at the same time perfecting that persona, only now calling it growing up and normal. I'm really good at the Spock thing, which is indeed useful at times when the hysterics of others don't help so much...car accidents, out of control broken lawn sprinklers...less helpful when your wife is trying to get you to connect or work on an issue of importance to her in your marriage.

I hope you guys take this question the way I mean it, as an ice breaker of sorts, but also as a serious question creating a different persona to deal with difficult things and if that persona was modeled on anyone else be it a real person, fiction character or someone you made up.

thanks guys,

sono

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#297772 - 08/02/09 09:24 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
not sure I had a snoopy stuffed animal,
I do not think I pretended to be someone.

I just kept busy or spent time with friends
I did want to be like my dad who died when I was 12
I looked up to him

I would have been yogi bear it would have thought about it

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#297779 - 08/02/09 01:22 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: michael Joseph]
Trucker51 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
I remember Mr. Spock and Captain Kirk when they were on primetime TV once every week, though he wasn't my role model growing-up. You have an interesting take on why you were drawn to look-up to his character though. I preferred more of a detached and hardened character myself, like Clint Eastwood's character in some of his westerns or even in the early part of his Dirty harry series. My guess is that someday I hoped to be able to be like Inspector Callahan when someone tried the wrong thing on me. For some reason Martin Landau stands out in my mind in Space 1999, as well as Chad Everett in Medical Center. Then there was Detective Frank Cannon driving the old LTD that leaned the wrong way. Nobody messed with big Frank as I recall.

Anyhow, glad to meet you Sono, and hope that we continue to see more of you soon. Together we can find our freedom.

Here is a little bit of the kind of humor that I enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6phteRZpLtU

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#297783 - 08/02/09 01:54 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
Geeders Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Sono, I know exactly what you are talking about, and can relate, logically of course. whistle

There were many people in our youth (yeah, thanks Mark, it IS a long time ago grin ) that we could aspire to being like. Yet despite my efforts to be like whoever was the flavour of the day, there were many days when I felt like Uncle Martin, an alien, on My Favourite Martian. Many times I felt invisible, and still do some days. I just wish I could have got that invisibility thing down right when I could have used it. Maybe I should have had a robot like Will Robinson's on Lost In Space. "Warning! Warning!"

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#297786 - 08/02/09 02:24 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: Geeders]
sono Offline
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Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Trucker51, Thanks for the welcome. Good(?!) to be here...well definitely very good to have "found" here! Yeah, Spock seemed like the guy who could handle it all for me. Since my dad was a tough guy, I think I kind of wrote off that approach...didn't want to be anything like him even if I could. Funnily enough I've only recently discovered the Leone westerns with Eastwood and am way into them. I can see thinking that's be a guy to be. Man those are some "out of the past" references you make, Medical Center, Cannon, Space 1999...thank god for the escape of TV when I was a kid! Freedom you suggest? Cool, that's a concept. I was just thinking about having maybe an hour some time in my life when I don't hear my perp's voice giving me "his">
_________________________
the family
the perp

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#297808 - 08/02/09 05:39 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN
I feel similar to Mr. Spock. Logical, no emotions without conflict. Trying to make 2 worlds in to one for survival. Beam me up Scotty!


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#297813 - 08/02/09 07:39 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: christianfather]
king tut Offline
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Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
I relate to this, although not Spock, i liked Tuvok from voyager (he is also a vulcan), but i ddin't use him as a role model or anything. Mostly i mimicked Data from Next Generation, because Data is not capable of feelings or emotions, and everything he does is just an approximation of human things- I kind of could relate to that. Also i liked how his hair was always so smart and he dressed so exactly and he was well spoken. I felt like Data sometimes, and would sometimes think how easier it would be if i could take away feelings and emotions and be like him, also be as intellignet as him.

Lewis

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#297844 - 08/03/09 01:33 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: king tut]
sono Offline
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Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
hey christianfather and king tut, so you guys get what I mean about realizing the dude in control of his feelings could navigate the mine fields more competently that the guy whose yelling or crying and carrying on. I mean Spock and Data are the same character in the commedia dell'arte world of Trek. I recently saw that episode of TNG in which a little boy whose parents have been killed tries to emulate Data so he wouldn't have to feel anything. I got it! So much of the literature about recovery talks about learning to feel again...I can feel pretty well i think in general (could be wrong, who knows), but I don't know how close I am to being able to feel about SA. Detachment still seems kind of wise, I don't even know how to start trying to feel about that. Deep thoughts, I'm gonna try and work on those ideas. How to start trying to feel something about it, other than the usual day to day shit that intrudes on my life, which is so over played by now that I can't even conjure up feelings about that other than, here we go again.

OK, my thoughts are more coherent than the words, so time to close the computer!

thanks guys,

sono

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#297845 - 08/03/09 01:51 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
Spock was my role model, because he had control over himself. He showed no emotion.


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#297856 - 08/03/09 09:17 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
Sans Logos Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
looking back, i think it strange that i had no 'heroes' in my family...no people that i 'looked up' to; in fact quite the opposite, i feared all of them. looking back on my father's life, i guess i can say i admired his faithfulness to his commitment to raise the 8 kids he brought into the world. but i can't say i agree with the way he went about it.

outside the family system, i admire the following people who had tremendous impact on my life; it is very odd that they are all female [and they are all musicians].....go figure:

-sr. john baptist conrad, my 6th grade music teacher who first recognized my talent
-louise doschek, my piano teahcer
-sr. mary ann moses, my church musician mentor
-ann labounsky steele, head of the organ/sacred music department at duquesne university

now the people i love and emulate and look to for guidance are my friends, a melting pot of many faiths, genders, occupations. also, i am beginning to feel greatly impressed by those monumental spirits living in the hearts of magnanimous persons whom i hardly even noticed at earlier times of my life, but recently coming to deeply appreciate. [even tho i disapprove of war as a solution, i have to give props to all the people who put their lives at risk to keep this country safe, thereby giving all of us a safe place from which to exist] there are far too many to name, but many of of my role model/heroes i meet here as i read of their stories and struggles.

it's funny how as i change, my idea of what constitutes being a hero/role model changes.

all the best,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#297878 - 08/03/09 02:13 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: Sans Logos]
mike5 Offline
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Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Cleveland, OH
I can relate to the Spock role model - especially from the not showing emotions part. I used to feel I shouldn't let anyone see how I feel. Went so far as to try not to smile if I was happy.

This reminds me of a time when some friends and I sat around and talked about who our favorite comic book hero was. Mine was the Phantom*, another character who held himself apart and wore a mask.

Live long and prosper :-)

Mike


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#297880 - 08/03/09 02:23 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: mike5]
DJsport Offline
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Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
I enjoyed escaping in cartoons and movies. My Favorite cartoon even to today is "Garfield" and my favorite movie is the original Wizard Of Oz.

I was going to be my own best father, brother, cuz, etc. Non of which I could do on my own.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#297885 - 08/03/09 03:24 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: DJsport]
philistine Offline
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Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 210
Loc: Oregon
I understand where you are coming from, I have my moments (okay months) that I feel the same way, and loss of control is the enemy.

_________________________
Mike

"No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself" - Nietzsche

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#297891 - 08/03/09 03:58 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
king tut Offline
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Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: sono
I recently saw that episode of TNG in which a little boy whose parents have been killed tries to emulate Data so he wouldn't have to feel anything. I got it!


I saw that episode too (after i had already taken Data as a kind of role model of course- but unlike that episode i found my admiration of Data useful for those long and tedious nights of maths homework where you had to tell yourself to be obedient and unfeeling and also convince yourself that you are capable).

It really was strange seeing that the writer had somehow managed to pick up on this feeling which i guess many people must have felt. I am quite convinced that the writer understood more about that dynamic than spoken. How that kid moves his head robotically side to side and says that his movements are only approximations of human movements. How he falls asleep with data whilst painting because actually he is just a boy and does need sleep. The episode is called "Hero Worship" and i recommend it.



_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#297898 - 08/03/09 04:49 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: Sans Logos]
pufferfish Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
Sono,

What an interesting thread you have started. Thank you.

I remember at age 12 I was at the boy scout camp. I was looking for a role model. The young man who was in charge of our camp site seemed like such a likely candidate. He was tall and had a lot of bearing. He seemed to be doing something for another scout.

We all had to have or to make lanyards made of colorful strands of gimp. I didn't know how to brade them and he was standing at the tent flap of another scout braiding a lanyard for him. So I asked him if he would show me how to braid the gimp lanyards. He started showing me. But there was something terribly intense about his voice and method that I really couldn't concentrate on what he was saying.

Then at lunch time 9 of us sat around a table with him at the head. I was wearing a kerchief tie I had made at home from some plastic wood. He ordered me to take that piece of s--- off. At first I tried to ignore him. Then he raised his voice and inserted more invectives. So I took it off. It wasn't until 30 years later I realized he was sizing me up to be his next victim.

The scout manual supposedly warns kids against improper activities. But it probably doesn't say anything about what sociopaths are and how they can manipulate and even destroy their victims. That might unduly "scare" the poor kids. sick

Allen

pufferfish whistle




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#297931 - 08/03/09 09:38 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: mike5]
mike5 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Cleveland, OH
I just recalled that my other role model as a kid was Jacques Cousteau. I think it was because I feel safer on the water. On land, when there are trees and buildings around, it is harder for me to watch my back...

Mike


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#297937 - 08/03/09 10:27 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: mike5]
sono Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Hi guys,

It seems like we were creative in taking what we saw as useful ways to cope from the much maligned TV. Not mention just plain escaping...maybe TV's not so bad after all...can't believe I just said that. Seeing all the people who used turning off the emotions and hearing some of myself in all the responses makes me realize I need to try and break through that wall about my childhood and try and feel something about that. I feel like I'm pretty good with allowing myself current emotions, (less good in dealing with them, but at least they're there) but I can't find much to feel about my childhood.

Sans logos mentioned some real life heros he had and he sounds very lucky in having a lot of great people right there to show him the way.

Pufferfish mentions a perp posing as real life role model...this is one I can relate to. I'm thinking a lot about the mind control exerted by my perp these days and that certainly began by presenting himself as someone to emulate.

Thanks for all the warm welcomes and good thoughts and vibes, I really appreciate it more than I can say.

sono

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#297938 - 08/03/09 11:10 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
Spock as a role model? In my case I desperately wanted to BE Spock. He was emotion-less AND he had power (that Vulcan grip thing, mind melding, etc.)

I was a Trekkie from age 9 (yes I was watching re-runs). I watched every episode at least 20 times.

I was really impressed with the latest Star Trek movie. Precisely because of the way they explored Spock's childhood. Fascinating...

Now my T tells me how being "Spock" is somehow related to dissociation. Is that logical?? Hmmm....

Jim

_________________________
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. -Yes, Starship Trooper

My Story

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#297940 - 08/03/09 11:42 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: Jim1961]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
Hi Guys.

Ok here we go again, from the ancient one.

Brian Kieth. He was the father that I never had.

It was a TV sitcom, where he was a dad to a boy and girl. If my ancient memory serves me right he was a single parent too.
I think that one of the kids name was Buffy.

Maybe, Allen or Mark might remember the name.

That is if they want to reveal their age.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and I will lead him from the depths of darkness into the sunlight, forever into eternity".

Heal well my brothers/friends.

Little Pete & big Pete.



Edited by petercorbett (08/04/09 08:54 AM)
Edit Reason: remembered a name.
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#297945 - 08/04/09 01:05 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: petercorbett]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
role model? That was Barnabus Collins. hands down - no doubt about it. Spock was kewl with the "all logic" approach - but Barnabus was dark and accepted it.


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#297946 - 08/04/09 01:11 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: petercorbett]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Interesting thread.
I fell in love with the character of Spock on Star Trek when it first came out. I so identifed with his dual personality and trying to keep his emotions in check and surpressed. I embrased the philosophy of Logic over emotions with a vengence but it isolated me from the people I really needed to be connected to. It took me a while to figure out that it was hurting me more than helping me but I still secretly longed for the wall of logic that I could hide behind.
R


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#297953 - 08/04/09 03:34 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: Freedom49]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
Keeping one's emotions in check is the biggest part. Being able to keep from losing it. To be able to remain in a situation and not show emotion.

How is a 7 year old boy supposed to handle being wrapped up in a blanket and then listen to his mommy tell how she's gonna make everything alright, how there is no child abuse because you ate, as she's loading her shotgun? Come on, take it like a man!


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#297956 - 08/04/09 05:27 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: LilacLouie]
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 979
Loc: HULBERT OK
I guess that my role modle has ben Tommy Chong

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#298044 - 08/04/09 10:12 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: MarkK]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
OMG, I completely FORGOT about Dark Shadows. I watched it all the time as a kid. Yes, he was dark and something about him inviting. I remember watching a clip of it on cable maybe 20 years ago or so. Wow, was it CHEESIE! smile

Jim

_________________________
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. -Yes, Starship Trooper

My Story

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#298078 - 08/05/09 07:49 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: Jim1961]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
This is fun, I gotta admit,I never wantedd Uncle Bill to be my dad (Brian Keith - Family Affair), but that probably has to do with the fact he reminded me of a cleaned up version of my dad...never mind. The vampire Barnabus Collins...I remember trying out the neck biting thing on my big sisters and their friends (me 3 or 4 them 17-18) funny, they weren't into it...

It's really interesting how many of us did the control the emotion thing..with or without Spock's help. I wonder if Leonard Nimoy knows what a help he was to a lot of little boys/men trying to cope. Clearly we need our emotions, but maybe that ddefence mechanism was better than the other options at the time...to unlearn that behavior...hard. I can feel it whenever my wife and I get into a discussion (read disagreement) that starts to go in a direction I'm not comfortable with (this can be anything, usually not my CSA by any means) I can literally feel the emotion valves turning off...I can feel my face go flat...that's my "OK now, ready to deal with it" default position...that feels like a revelation...I'm gonna go think about it. Thanks freedom49.

Jim1961, I'd like to ask you to share more about what your T says about Spock/disasociation...I haven't found one yet...I feel like I can almost see where that is going. I also feel like I need a better handle on exactly what dissociation is...

Okie Mike, Is it OK to laugh at what you said, or is that something you're also trying to work through?

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#298136 - 08/05/09 04:38 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: petercorbett]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN
Pete- that was Family Affair he inherited 3 children Jody, Buffy, and Sissy. He became a single dad to them after their parents were killed and the family had separated them. Your right he was the kind of dad that I want to be with my daughter.

No matter what they got into they had Uncle Bill they could talk to not to mention Mr. French.


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#298339 - 08/07/09 06:10 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
Jim1961 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Pa, but likely traveling...
Originally Posted By: sono
Jim1961, I'd like to ask you to share more about what your T says about Spock/disasociation...I haven't found one yet...I feel like I can almost see where that is going. I also feel like I need a better handle on exactly what dissociation is...


Sono,

This was my attempt at humor:

Originally Posted By: jim1961
Now my T tells me how being "Spock" is somehow related to dissociation. Is that logical?? Hmmm....


I'm not a doctor but my T tells me I have "mild dissociation." My experience is that whenever I am triggered (emotions stirred up), I go numb. Its like disconnecting from the emotions (sound like Spock?).

My challenge (and frustration) is that it is a reflex. I don't consciously think "time to go numb", it just happens. It's especially frustrating because I do it often in my T sessions. My T consistently reminds me that it is safe. But that part of me doesn't listen or care apparently...

I have no doubt that it was a coping mechanism that kept me from jumping off a bridge. Doesn't serve me at all now as an adult.

There have been many posts regarding dissociation. Do a search.

Jim

_________________________
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. -Yes, Starship Trooper

My Story

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#298341 - 08/07/09 06:59 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: Jim1961]
sono Offline
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Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Jim1961,

Hey thanks for reminding about that search option. Even though it's right there at the top, it isn't part of the menu till you join, and I quite frankly forgot about it...ouch that sounds like my mother-in-law asking me something about her computer.

Even though that was a joke, which is swell!, it used to drive my wife nuts how I would do that when we would be talking, discussing, arguing, whatever...I'd go all poker face on the situation and not really have much to say and be pretty unreachable. Of course those arguments would become something else entirely. We would argue with our actions rather than our words. I don't mean we physically fought, but we kinda treated each other like shit for a good long while...like 10 years, but who's counting? That's in the past and we've come a long way since then thank goodness.

My perp, who was an adult trying to shape and re-create me in his own image over the course of way too many years, would constantly be giving me "life lessons" if you know what I mean. Unfortunately, we could spend far too much time together, but that's not the point. Anyway, he would really get on my case (strange how I start to use a late 70s phrase when talking about it!) it felt like all the time and often really in a mean way. I think what I've been doing is anytime my wife has had a disagreement with me or whatever that I as any way perceived as an attack, man I would turn that shit off. Then I began to counter at one point, and it should have been a warning signal when probably about 13 years ago now, I can now really remember thinking this..OK I've had it enough I'm not going to take his(I thought my perps name) shit anymore-uh, I mean her shit any more. I just decided later on, well he treated me like crap and she's treating me like crap it's only natural I'd see it that same...except it wasn't. Sorry I'm rambling away.

Thanks for responding...since we're real close in age (me 1964) and I remember you referring to your wife from some other post, so we've got that in common to... maybe we'll find other parallels in our recovery even though our path to it has surely been different. Thanks for helping with mine.

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#298358 - 08/07/09 11:45 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
jacobtk Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
I never identified with Spock, but I have been called him as an insult before. My reply was, "Spock has emotions. I don't."

I preferred Batman from the 1990s Animated Series. He always seemed in control and did not allow difficult situations to get the best of him. He put on a face to fit into society during the day, but he was himself once he put on the mask. It was sort of an odd thing that felt right to me. Of course, I am nowhere near as smart, as fit or as wealthy as him, nor do I think I will me anytime soon.

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again Iím reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you canít defeat/Neither down nor out/Thereís nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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#298431 - 08/08/09 12:44 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: king tut]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: king tut
Originally Posted By: sono
I recently saw that episode of TNG in which a little boy whose parents have been killed tries to emulate Data so he wouldn't have to feel anything. I got it!


I saw that episode too (after i had already taken Data as a kind of role model of course- but unlike that episode i found my admiration of Data useful for those long and tedious nights of maths homework where you had to tell yourself to be obedient and unfeeling and also convince yourself that you are capable).

It really was strange seeing that the writer had somehow managed to pick up on this feeling which i guess many people must have felt. I am quite convinced that the writer understood more about that dynamic than spoken. How that kid moves his head robotically side to side and says that his movements are only approximations of human movements. How he falls asleep with data whilst painting because actually he is just a boy and does need sleep. The episode is called "Hero Worship" and i recommend it.


I also watched this to see what all the fuss was about!

I have to say it really grabbed me! I was in tears. My T has told me that I had "depersonalization disorder". Although I think my case of it has grown much better over the years and with counseling, this movie really helped me to realize what depersonalization disorder is - on an emotional level. The boy in this movie had it. What this means to me is that he felt he had done something really terrible! He hated himself deeply. To deal with it he had to become someone else. He had to be someone who had not been through his trauma. He emulated Data who was to be his new identity. Later, the boy started to heal when he was assured that it was not his fault.

Likewise in my case, the horrible abuse I experienced in pufferfish story part 5 left me with depersonalization disorder. That means I had a deep hatred and rejection of myself. In my case, when I was 12, I didn't have a learning psychologist and Mr. Data to help me out, so it has been a very long hard climb out of that pit.

How did the author of the Star Trek series know enough to put this kind of insight into the production? Or maybe it's coincidence that I see something there which wasn't fully intended.

If anybody else is interested in seeing this, it is found in the Star Trek series, The New Generation (=TNG) produced in 1992. This episode, called Hero Worship, is found on the Third Disk in the series. I got it from Netflix. The boy actor was Joshua Harris.

Going on from there we have to learn to feel emotions again. If we are like Mr. Data, we will miss much in life because we have blocked off our emotions. But before we can learn to feel emotions again, we have to deal with a lot of the bad emotions which get us so tangled up.

Allen

pufferfish (puffing again whistle )


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#298473 - 08/08/09 12:18 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
After thinking about this movie some more, I realize that there are a lot of parallels between this presentation of Star Trek Hero Worship and what I have seen of my own problems. Somebody really knowledgable must have either written the>

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#298476 - 08/08/09 01:01 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: pufferfish]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Hey guys,

Thanks to king tut for posting the info on that Next Gen episode. That is a nice piece of work. I also thought that was a great analysis of the episode...really thoughtful and clear. Lots of food for thought. I gotta thank you for something...somehow that set off this memory of always thinking I was a bad child, but long before I met my perp. That's my really vague time in terms of remembering the childhood, so I'm very grateful for any extra piece of the puzzle. I hope I can find out more about that once I start therapy.

jacobtk, don't know that Batman incarnation, but I get it.

thanks,

_________________________
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the perp

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#298520 - 08/08/09 10:25 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? my humor [Re: Jim1961]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By: Jim1961
Originally Posted By: sono
Jim1961, I'd like to ask you to share more about what your T says about Spock/disasociation...I haven't found one yet...I feel like I can almost see where that is going. I also feel like I need a better handle on exactly what dissociation is...


Sono,

This was my attempt at humor:

Originally Posted By: jim1961
Now my T tells me how being "Spock" is somehow related to dissociation. Is that logical?? Hmmm....


I'm not a doctor but my T tells me I have "mild dissociation." My experience is that whenever I am triggered (emotions stirred up), I go numb. Its like disconnecting from the emotions (sound like Spock?).

My challenge (and frustration) is that it is a reflex. I don't consciously think "time to go numb", it just happens. It's especially frustrating because I do it often in my T sessions. My T consistently reminds me that it is safe. But that part of me doesn't listen or care apparently...

I have no doubt that it was a coping mechanism that kept me from jumping off a bridge. Doesn't serve me at all now as an adult.

There have been many posts regarding dissociation. Do a search.

Jim

I'm a miner, Jim! Not a doctor! (tongue in cheek from the part about Bones complaining about not being a bricklayer....


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#298543 - 08/09/09 01:33 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? my humor [Re: LilacLouie]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
OK Louie,

I feel like a minor a lot of the time.

It's just that Data is a robot or 'droid'. They don't feel emotion. They are machines.

Some guys who have experienced trauma turn off their ability to feel emotions, just like you turn off the water in your sink. This is called dissociation. They do it so that they won't feel pain. But then they have trouble feeling love and joy as well.

Allen

pufferfish whistle





Edited by pufferfish (08/09/09 02:28 PM)
Edit Reason: clarify

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#298556 - 08/09/09 09:17 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? my humor [Re: pufferfish]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
I never knew that Allen. Golly, being molested 30+ years ago, raped 22 years ago, sexually assaulted 18 years and 2 years ago, physically accosted a number of times, I must have had my own attempts at rehab handed to me.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.



Edited by LilacLouie (08/09/09 09:18 AM)

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#298579 - 08/09/09 02:38 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
This refers to the movie Hero Worship from Star Trek TNG discussed above.

I watched this again. I have found it to be extremely healing for me.

I think it must work something like Gestalt therapy.

http://www.psychologistanywhereanytime.c...alt_therapy.htm

Thank you guys, esp Sono and Lewis who pointed this out to us.

Allen

pufferfish (puffing again whistle )






Edited by pufferfish (08/09/09 05:41 PM)
Edit Reason: took out unhelpful quotes

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#299303 - 08/14/09 03:26 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: pufferfish]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
Pardon me please for replying to my own post.

I just want to emphasize the healing nature of watching a bunch of vids. But they have to be constructive vids. A child who is isolated or withdrawn will not make good social progress. This may be what is identified as social intelligence.

Watching videos is a way for such an adult kid to make rapid progress in the social intelligence area.

I can supply a long list of constructive vids. I have also listed elsewhere a list of healing videos.

Allen

pufferfish


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#299305 - 08/14/09 03:52 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: pufferfish]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By: pufferfish
I just want to emphasize the healing nature of watching a bunch of vids. But they have to be constructive vids.

I agree, both constructive & educational, but I assume those pretty much go hand in hand, right?

Originally Posted By: pufferfish
A child who is isolated or withdrawn will not make good social progress. This may be what is identified as social intelligence.

Correct. BTDT. And even with today's technology, webcam contact, though live, is not sufficient. Live, in-person, contact is necessary.

Originally Posted By: pufferfish
Watching videos is a way for such an adult kid to make rapid progress in the social intelligence area.

Hmmm, really? Please explain.

Originally Posted By: pufferfish
I can supply a long list of constructive vids. I have also listed elsewhere a list of healing videos.

The list would be greatly appreciated!


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#299330 - 08/14/09 06:28 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: LilacLouie]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: pufferfish
Watching videos is a way for such an adult kid to make rapid progress in the social intelligence area.


Originally Posted By: LilacLouie
Hmmm, really? Please explain.


No it's not the same as real experience. When a guy injects himself into the plot and into the characters, it is called projection by psychologists. The guy learns vocabulary and social mores of the people in the flik.

Originally Posted By: pufferfish
I can supply a long list of constructive vids. I have also listed elsewhere a list of healing videos.


Originally Posted By: LilacLouie

The list would be greatly appreciated!


OK I'm going to have to transfer my list from Netflix to a file format. It'll take until maybe tomorrow to accomplish this. Then I can post it here. It consists of a bunch of films. Start with the list of healing films. I give a link below:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...true#Post294141

Here is the one from Star Trek:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...8579#Post298579

Please remember that some items on my list may not appeal to you and others. Everybody's list is going to be different. So pick and choose. I recommend subscribing to Netflix.

Allen

pufferfish whistle





Edited by pufferfish (08/15/09 06:21 PM)

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#300615 - 08/26/09 04:27 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: pufferfish]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
sono,

It was good talking to you in chat today.
I have been reading some of your post in an effort to get to know you better.
I can relate to being very unemotional in an effort to be in control of what is going on in my life. To me to be emotional is too be out of controll and I hate feeeling out of control.
I like Spock but he was not my ideal of being a man. Mine was John Wayne. To me he was bigger than life and had the ability to always be able to come out on top no matter haw many indians or bad guys he had to fight. No matterr what he never seem to be afraid and that was what I so much wanted not to feel being afraid. Because I always felt fear in relation to what was happening in my life. I swear I was always afraid of people beginning with my mother and father.

Another idol was Conan. Can you guess why?

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

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#300620 - 08/26/09 05:41 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
boylikeme Offline


Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 546
Loc: hell
my role model is Patrick Wolf, he is a British singer and I just think hes great..

He plays about 30 different instruments and I really love his music... but I also like his story cuz I dunno.. it is just so cool..

when he was 11 to 15 he was bullied badly at school.. kids called him names n beat him up every day just cuz he was different.. so he started his own fanzine at age 11.. just cuz he had no friends.. he started writing songs at age 12 ..

this is a great article:

"Everything changed for Patrick when he went to secondary school: a private all-boys affair in Wimbledon, very academic and sporty. He was horrendously bullied.

"It starts with just three people and it spreads," he says, calmly, "until it's 30 people throwing things at you, shouting, beating you up and chasing you down the street. And you think it's your fault, because of who you are. It's your identity so it's your problem. And I wasn't sure if I was gay or bisexual, I wasn't really thinking like that. Obviously I wasn't as macho as the rest of the school but I was just being myself."

He would bunk off, painting his toenails so he'd get chucked out of swimming lessons, filling his time with making music and writing his fanzine. Through the latter, in 1997, he interviewed Minty, Leigh Bowery's art-rock group: during the meeting he broke down and told them how awful his life was. Fantastically, they let him join their band. Patrick first performed at Heaven aged 14, playing theremin for Minty.

Small recompense. His school life was still terrible. When Patrick asked his supposed mentor for support, he was told, "Well, look at you, what do you expect?" "With gay or bi people, I think education still wonders if it's a nature-versus-nurture thing. If you were black, they'd know they couldn't change you, and racist bullying would never be condoned, but if someone is quite feminine or knows they might be gay at 13, they think they can change you with a bit of rugby."

The bullying eventually stopped when Patrick was 15 and his mum saw him being chased down the road. She immediately pulled him out of school, eventually going to court to get the fees back: "It was important for my parents to feel that they hadn't wasted four years paying for an education that fucked their child up."

But it had. The only private establishment that would take Patrick afterwards was the do-whatcha-like boarding school Bedales. He was given a music scholarship and his own room: the only boy ever allowed this. He was considered too damaged to share. Bedales saved him, he says. Lily Allen was there, too, along with "all the other freaks that no other school would take. It was brilliant, being thrown in with all these characters. Before then, my freak status was something that I was made to feel ashamed of. Suddenly it was celebrated, like, 'Oh my God, I love your platform shoes!'" He laughs. "Though, by that point, that wasn't the reaction I wanted any more.""


I like how he bough a piano with the money the school had to pay them.. I like how he left home at age 16 n he just became who he wanted to be.. without caring what ppl think of him..



I dunno..

I like how he went from this


to this


oh n i wonder if i can figure out how to post a video..


so yea.. thats my role model



Edited by boylikeme (09/02/09 12:02 PM)
_________________________
Everybodyís screaming - I try to make a sound but no one hears me (Untitled - Simple Plan)

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#331788 - 05/23/10 04:19 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: pufferfish]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Thanks Kevin,
ST:TNG has always been my favorite. I was raised by Picard and Beverly, and my brother and his on again off again romance with Deanna, and I was Barkley, the engineer, you know, Murdock from "A-Team"? Data? Data was more of an anomaly, like a pet or an experiment, than a character for me.

I never missed an episode when the show was on television, and most of the repeats. I have all seven seasons. I watched them all more than once, and in order, which, by the way, is actually very insightful.

Spock was always foreboding, and too distant for me.

I enjoy the responses to this, as I really dissociated into TV for, well, 41 years, :-).

Thanks Kevin,

Sam

_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#331795 - 05/23/10 04:33 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
traillius Offline


Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 260
I know its star wars and not star trek, but Luke skywalker. He faced the dark side of the world, and humanity. He also faced his own darkness. He stood tall, and triumphed by force of will, no pun intended, rather than by physical force.


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#331848 - 05/23/10 08:24 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: traillius]
Anomalous Offline
Greeter Coordinator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 1344
Hi Guys,

Yes, I, too, was another Spock.

I had made a conscious decision to eliminate all emotions so that the monster couldn't hurt me anymore.

At the time, I didn't think about a role model (I didn't know what that term meant). It was only later that I became aware that what I was doing was making me similar to Spock -- in control (or seemingly so) of his emotions.

I couldn't be hurt that way. I got so good at defending myself that I didn't even bruise when beaten.

Actually, there is a psychological term for one who is dissociated from emotions. The term is Alexithymia.

My first T, J, told me about that after I had been working with him for a while and after a specific discussion we had.

I still remember him bobbing my ears, as I am fond of saying.

I also didn't use the word "I." When speaking I would always say "One." J would constantly, gently, say "I" everytime I would say "one."

I would also say "One thinks" and J would say "I Feel."

I still refer to the word "Feel" as the "F" word.

As you can see, I use the word "I" very frequently now.

While I know it is healthier to have the emotions, I would be lying if I said I don't miss the points on my ears.

I have only met one other person, until today, who has ever said he, too, employed the Vulcan routine.



Anomalous


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#331894 - 05/24/10 05:32 AM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: Anomalous]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Sam, Traillius and Anomalous,

How cool and, uh logical wink to have my first Thread on MS resurrected at this point in time. When I started this thread on August 2nd of last year, 2009, I had not begun therapy; I had just found MS less than two months prior; I had only been a member a couple of weeks; I could barely imagine posting anything let alone details of my abuse; I couldn't even say my perp's name out loud; I was completely unsure of what my abuse was...a gay relationship with an older man as he always said, or sexual abuse as I dared not hope; unconnected to my wife and my life; afraid of letting anything out for fear of what would happen; I couldn't imagine telling a soul in real life other than a T; indeed "Spock-like" in so many ways in that anything or any emotions anyone saw were logically considered and dished out in carefully measured portions.

Today, I've been in therapy for 8 months luckily with one of the best in the biz; I've posted over 800 times including extremely intimate details of my abuse and my reactions to is over the past 30 years; I freely use my perp's name - Mark - when discussing my abuse or him; I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a sexual abuser of at least one child - me and that there is no circumstance in which sex between a 30 year old and a 13 year old is not sexual abuse; I know what he did to me, what he said to me and my reactions to it did not mean I was gay; I have gone to the church in my hometown where he holds the disturbing title of Minister of Music and confronted him on the altar of that church immediately after he finished playing the Easter Sunday service with the truth of his life - that he is a sexual child molester while my wife took pictures of the event; my wife and I have never been more connected on every possible level and I'm truly enjoying my life; I let it all out and what happened/is happening was/is fantastic; I've disclosed now to about a dozen close friends and the effect has been freeing and cleansing beyond my wildest imagination - those disclosures have turned out to be significant parts of my recovery as opposed to something to do with it's all done; I of course still do some self monitoring in terms of what emotions come out, I mean no one wants to have an emotional breakdown in the middle of the workplace or grocery store, but generally speaking if I feel it, I show it, I acknowledge it and don't deny it; the walls between me and my feelings are down.

I'm not done with recovery, but the man who started this thread is changed almost beyond recognition in the ways that count...fascinating.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity and impetus to do this status report wink

Kevin

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#343307 - 10/27/10 05:19 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
oldguy Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 61
Loc: st louis, MO
Sono, congratulations on your recovery and on your courage in confronting your perpetrator.

My hero was Sherlock Holmes, a very logical and observant person. Yes, he used opium but then everyone, including heroes, have flaws. I always prided myself on my logical mind and my supopression of emotions. But after many years of 12-step programs and therapy I realized that what I thought was pure logic was logic contaminated with emotions. That way I could come up with the answer I wanted. Not a good idea. These days I can use logic and express emotions without screwing up both. This was a very useful set of posts. Oldguy


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#351503 - 01/21/11 02:56 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1402
Loc: California
WOW - I'm so glad I read through this ENTIRE thread.

I had forgotten that I had chosen Spock as a role model as a child. It was the late 70's when the local cable channel had it on on a daily basis after school. Same with The Next Generation 15 years later.

Sono, I wanted to comment on your earlier posts on this thread, versus your last post - you are right, it shows that you have significant recovery, and it shows in how honest you are about what happened to you. It is clear as day. Thank you SO much for starting this thread, and for your more recent post.

I have an anomaly here, which might describe my particular life course (?). One of my heroes when I was a child was THE INCREDIBLE HULK (the tv series).

I even remember staging a fort (a fake house) in the front yard and asking my family to watch this play I put on (my grandparents and genetic dad were visiting). And I proceeded to demolish the house in front of them as the incredible hulk. I was probably 7-9 years old, I don't remember my age specifically. But I clearly remember that acting out.

I've obviously always been in contact with my anger and perhaps my rage, and maybe I'm luckier for it. I never lost complete connection to my inner child, I stay connected to him through my anger and rage and frustration.

Hmm. I wonder about this now. Did I choose to remain in touch with my anger as I cut everything else off (became logical)? Or was I unable to shut off my anger, and thus I carried it with me? Some people are born with different temperaments.

Ah. Memory. My first memory of my mom is her having a screaming fit in front of me, yelling at me. I must have been about 2 years old. I'd apparently done something bad, and she just had a meltdown of rage in front of me. That's my first memory of my mom.

Huh. I've never thought of this before. What *IS* my true nature regarding anger and rage? How much of it is my mothers, and how much of it is MINE?

Whoa.

Anyways - thanks again for this thread. It's been very fascinating.

D





Edited by tdillon (01/21/11 02:58 PM)
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#351507 - 01/21/11 04:28 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: sono]
h.beat,h.break Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: New York
Persona, doppelganger, twin, split personality (whatever it is you wanna call it) I'm dealing with the exact same situation right now and having a hell of a hard time being the person that I know that I really am. Even harder when people are used to you being a certain way and then all of a sudden "flipping" on them.

A perfect example, in my case, is the creation of two separate Facebook pages (one as Remy and the other as Stephen). Remy was the survivor while Stephen was the person everyone needed him to be (or is it the other way around?). Anyway, there's this big ass schism that I have to deal with now and bringing the two together is quite a task. Right now, it's like mixing cesium and sulphur (which can create some violent explosions) and it's been a pretty rough road.

In the meantime, I'm doing my best to bring the two together. Even though Remy isn't fighting the change, I think Stephen is though. Possibly so shame on that end. Whole nother story though.

_________________________
Hey, if "black sheep" means you're the only non-douche of the family, take that with some pride.

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#351508 - 01/21/11 04:31 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: Magellan]
Survivinguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 310
Loc: Colorado
DEXTER! A fictional character in a show by the same name on Showtime about a serial killer. And before you try to figure out in which locale my local authorities might be located - the show does have some redeeming value - the main character struggles with demons from his childhood and has resolved to live by a moral code, all the while feeling like an outcast, struggling with a void of feelings and a brutal childhood experience. It's nice to see an awkward, intelligent, morally driven man and yet capable, conscientious and contemplative man cast in a show.

Okay maybe he's not my hero but I like the character.

Honestly, I'm not sure I have a hero.

_________________________
Survivinguy

============================================
I have to survive and I hope to thrive.

Alumni Dahlonega WoR May 2010
Alumni Sequoia WoR March 2012

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#351517 - 01/21/11 06:09 PM Re: Spock as role model?? got your own? [Re: Survivinguy]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Man, this is always so cool when someone comes back into this first thread of mine, and gives me a reason to think about it, and like my last post in this thread review from where I"ve come and accomplished and so forth. uh...LOTS.

There are some ways in which I can legitimately say that ability to divorce myself from the emotions, but yet not stop thinking because I've just gone to la la land, has allowed me to get through life. That was a damn useful role model!

Hey and tidillon, if you see this, I had posted to a thread of yours, and incorrectly called you by another poster's name...Jim...so, if you read that, uh that was to you not Jim...LOL

K

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the perp

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