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#29758 - 06/01/02 09:27 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
hi Michael
you keep coming back, you're making progress my friend.
Anger and rage is so much a way of life to us, and I guess it affects us in different ways. Years ago I took it out on other people, thankfully not my wife or close friends, generally arseholes I worked with, I've had a lot of jobs !!
But as I got older it subsided, I wasn't so handy with the fists, but I still get into rages over stupid things. A few weeks ago I was trying to put a reel of welding wire into my welding machine and it kept unravelling. In the end I just kicked the shit out of it. A pure senseless rage that meant I had to drive to the shop and buy another reel of wire. Shit like this happens all the time. It wrecks me, I sit there crying and hating myself for what I've done. It has NEVER made me feel better. but I think it's getting less frequent.
I guess that we need to direct our anger at the people who made us this way. What the answer is to that I can't say, maybe log on here and have a rant ? stand in the yard and shout at the moon ? whatever, find a release for it. Buy a punchbag and write your abusers name in big letters across it, it might work ?
I watched a boxing match on tv tonight, I was in a pub with loads of other guys cheering and shouting like animals. It was a really good fast scrap between 2 evenly matched middleweight boxers. It might be very politically incorrect to enjoy such sports these days but what the fuck ?
Watching these guys knock seven bells of shit out of each other allowed me to imagine I was doing it to alan, peter and all the other scumbags who abused me.
Dont let your therapist push you into remembering things, let the memories come at their own speed and give yourself time to think about them. The only speed to go is YOUR speed.
And don't worry for the rest of us Michael, we're doing that for ourselves, look after number one- YOU.
Your question about sexual fantasies at a very early age is a difficult one, I believe my earliest sexual thoughts were about 6 or 7, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were sooner. The first sexual experience I ever had was about that age when a man took my hand and rubbed it on his penis, outside his trousers. Strangely I have never counted this in my abusuive history, but I remember it with extrodinary
clarity. I believe I was aware of sex at that age but lacked the details, but it doesn't take much for a child to grasp something especially if it's naughty.
Become Hercules Michael, you can do it. My dear friend Mick never had the chance
'later
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29759 - 06/03/02 04:03 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
I'm not going to ramble so much today as i'm afraid i'm boring the hell out of you...I think that if my therapist does not push me a little that i'll fall back into denying any abuse ever took place....i teeter on that ledge every day....it would be so much easier to just deny the abuse like i have for the last 40 years or so...am i happier knowing about the abuse?????NO!!!!!!....you know i should feel less anger, guilt and shame, but to the contrary i feel it so much more intensely now....just really do not think that will ever subside....most of the time to survive mentally, i just think that i'm imagining this stuff and it happened to somebody else, not to me.....it just seems so unreal most of the time.....i'm such a coward......i'm glad you enjoyed the boxing match.......do i need to ask who you'll be rooting for lennox lewis or tyson???????.......things have been kind of tough here today....a local high school teacher/coach committed suicide yesterday because he was being investigated by the police for having sex with a few high school girls.....although remembering how girls used to throw themselves at high school teachers/coaches, i know how often this occurs......the older guys are always held accountable, but from what i've seen, it is usually the teen age girls instigating the whole thing.....i guess some people might think of this as child abuse, guess i do not.....now if the girl is in jr. high, then the circumstances are very different.....anyway his suicide just hit me hard, because i've attempted it the way he did.....leaving the car running in the garage....unfortunately when i tried it, i started thinking about how the fumes were going to kill my pets and i just could not make that happen to them.....i guess it was just another cop-out........well, better let you go.....take care......mr. holyfield.......michael


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#29760 - 06/04/02 10:33 AM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
Do you think our history makes us stronger in some perverse way ? I think so. The teacher who killed himself probably didn't have our kind of past, and the chances are he couldn't cope with half of what we have had to we endure. He made a big mistake, was going to lose his job, but it isn't the worst thing in the world.
My other friend who killed himself was just caught stealing his neighbours panties off the washing line, all he was in for was a small fine and some big time embarrasment and piss taking. But he couldn't face it....
Maybe time and our way of dealing with our abuse has taught us more than we realise, we've learned to deal with our big pile of crap in ways we don't recognise, although it might not seem like it.

Lewis is the man for me, Tyson is just a thug who should be left to one side. Anyone who uses force and violence outside of the ring should be banned.

'later
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29761 - 06/04/02 04:36 PM Re: flashback blues
Anonymous
Unregistered


You astonish me,Lloydy. Every once in awhile I read something of deep import at survivor sites.
This is one.
====================
Maybe time and our way of dealing with our abuse has taught us more than we realise, we've learned to deal with our big pile of crap in ways we don't recognise, although it might not seem like it.


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#29762 - 06/04/02 06:27 PM Re: flashback blues
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
Lloydy, Tinfoil,

I am continually amazed at the variety of coping skills that I've witnessed in survivors. Those skills got us this far and I think they'll take us the distance. What can I say, I'm an optimist when I'm not being pessimistic.

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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#29763 - 06/04/02 06:39 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
So the theft of his neighbors panties is what precipitated your friend's suicide???? kind of amazing with life's challenges that this minor incident would instigate that, though i guess i can relate....i have had a problem with stealing things i do not want/need, i've been diagnosed with kleptomania.....about a year and a half ago i was arrested again and my family found out, for the first time.....i always thought this was the guilt and shame that was eating me alive.....but them finding out really did not bother me that much.....i'va always thought i was just so messed up because i was gay and could not handle that, god forbid my mother ever find out.....well, a few months ago when i was staying there after my congestive heart failure, she found a couple of gay magazines in my room....she layed them on the bed to let me know she had found them....she said i should be ashamed of myself.....in essence, i said f--- you!!!!!! she is no moral power of virtue......she moved her boyfriend into her house when my sister was 16, a few months after my father died.....also, she had a dildo hidden in her room for many years....one day my little sister brought it outside while some neighbors were over...she asked my mom what it was.....my mom went bullistic.....i had to stop her from beating my sister to death....so i no longer will accept my moral authority from her.....i've always craved love from her and i've finally came to the realization that she is incapable of love......and i realized i have to care about myself and not care about her.....the not caring about her has been much easier than anticipated....the really hard thing is trying to care about myself.....do not have that mastered yet, not sure i ever will.......maybe our past has given us some strength, BUT AT WHAT COST??????constant unhappiness and self-loathing????? not a good trade off in my book...........


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#29764 - 06/04/02 08:13 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Well thanks Tinfoil, \:o
But I do think we have developed something special for our "sins". The guilt I've dumped on myself after years of acting out and cottaging, neglecting my wife, and most of all believing the abuse was all my fault has been enormous. And now I'm coming out the other side I really do wonder how I coped, and survived Michael, I've been there. Self imposed guilt is the worst feeling in the world.
The normal pressures of life I used to dump on others, my long suffering wife usually, as I went into my alternative world of fantasy where everything was under my control.
Funnily enough I have been trying to explain this to my wife tonight. We are trying to decide where to go on holiday, and there are other complications with my aged parents to consider as well, and this is giving me a real hard time. But this should be normal stuff for someone in my position. The difference is that now I'm not retreating into my fantasy world and basically ignoring it and leaving it for her to sort out, I'm having to deal with it and I dont know how. It's a different set of tools than those I used to rely on, and they're blunt and useless. And it aint as simple as going to the store for nice new sharp ones. But the old ones served their purpose, they got me through 30 years of shit.
It's a major job for me to learn the normal things in life, I'm 48 and spent over 30 of those years fucked up and in denial, that's a very rapid learning curve and there's many times I have my doubts about it. It's so easy to backslide and take the easy way out again.
Michael, I guess it's hard to shy away from your mother, but I found that being selfish and saying "fuck it, I'm looking after me !" was always a great way of coping with other people.
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29765 - 06/05/02 12:05 AM Re: flashback blues
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
This is for you Michaelb

http://home.talkcity.com/KarmaWay/drgore/tiewaz.html

Rune = TIEWAZ

Warrior

( Tiwaz, Teiws, Tiw, Tyr, Tir )

Color: Red

Number(s): 3

Astrological Sign: Aries

Stone(s): Bloodstone, Hematite, Ruby

***ociated Tarot Card: IV - The Emporer

.....The RUNE Tiewaz is the RUNE of stability and ordering force. One of the greatest sides of Tiewaz's being is it's socio-religious nature as the RUNE of law. The spear shape of this RUNE shows the weopon of the sky-father god and lord of victory. The image of the one-handed god lifting a spear is shown in numerous indo-european carvings. This god is Tyr. Tyr originally held the highest place among the gods, as sky-father and lord of Law, Courage and War (As well as the god of Oaths, Honor and Absolute Justice). Only when the RUNES and their power came known to humans did Odin become the all-father, ***uming such sides of Tyr's being as did not contradict his own nature.

..... Tiewaz represents the separation of of the heavans and the earth. Tyr, and thus Tiewaz, is essentially a unipolar being, as evidenced by his one-handedness - a literal sign that he is bound to a single course of action.

..... Tiewaz is the main RUNE used by, or on behalf, of those who are/were not themselves greatly skilled in runeword. As such, this RUNE was used a lot by the warriors.

DIVINATION

~Duty, Discipline, Responsibility, Self Sacrifice, Conflict, Strength, A Wound, Physicality.

~The Warrior path.

~Use patience, there are rewards to this.

~Look within yourself for the strength you need.

~Be able to be alone.

~Dedication, Bravery, Courage, Justice, Objectivity, Judgement, Fairness.

~Relationship: Combined strength, Authority - May be conflicts over who is boss.

~You need to have faith that is unattatched to outcomes.

~The real enemy may be yourself - examine what you are doing.

~Examine new partnerships.

REVERSED

~Watch hasty actions.

~Examine your motives carefully.

~Matters of trust and confidence are at issue.

~Short-lived lust.

~***ociations may be short-lived, but have served their purpose.

~Focus on the outcomes, not the task itself.

MAGIC USES

~Protection, Strength and victory.

~Justice - Obtain absolute justice.

~Increase Courage, Honor and Strength.

****Can be used directly against another in revenge-defense magic -- ONLY if the cause is JUST!!****

HEALING

~To heal a wound.

~Calm someone.

~Give someone a strong will.

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#29766 - 06/05/02 12:09 AM Re: flashback blues
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
i can't believe that A$$uming and A$$ociation are considered bad words here...what is up with that?

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#29767 - 06/05/02 05:57 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
Orodo......the only thing i understood from that sight was the part about gaining knowledge by hanging oneself from a tree....maybe that is the only thing i can relate to......................................................LLOYDY>>>>>> you talk about defeating your guilt and shame...how do/did you do this....you really think therapy will help?????? btw, i am a math wiz and realize you have been dealing with this problem since you were 18.....did you go through therapy????? did you begin remembering the abuse at 18??????....how long before therapy became easier??????? DO YOU LIKE YOURSELF NOW??????????????????????????????? michaelb


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