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#29748 - 05/11/02 08:51 PM flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Today I visited a grave, I hadn't been there since we buried my childhood friend at the age of 41 in 1996.
We grew up together from the age of 5 and went to the same boarding school at 11.
I was abused there for 4 years, it wasn't a happy place.
We left in 1968 and lived in the same small town, so saw each other about, hung out as teenagers do, got married and all the regular stuff.
In May '96 he went back to the school and hung himself from a tree in a secluded part of the grounds. A place I knew well.
At the time I suspected why he did this, and a couple of years later it's something I exlplored with my therapist. I was 90% sure he was abused as well, but by another gang of older boys.
Today I shed a tear for him and was suddenly punched by a memory of a conversation we had at school when we compared out experiences at the hands of our abusers. I can't remember the exact words but I know this conversation took place.
Now I'm 100% sure, I've never been so positive about a memory in my life.
It's bad, tonight I feel like shit. This funny, decent, nice guy with a wife and kids was killed by these bastards.
If there was any justice they would stand accused of murder.
Spare a though for Mick, he never made it here

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29749 - 05/12/02 11:11 PM Re: flashback blues
Ken Followell Offline
President
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 12/30/01
Posts: 990
Loc: Bradenton, FL
Lloydy,

I am so sorry to hear about Mick. I am afraid many of the perps out there should stand accused of murder. With all the children and teens hurting themselves and killing themselves, the abuse is probably so much more wide spread than we think. You and Mick deserved better.

When I first remembered my abuse at the hands of an uncle I told my 3 co workers. One of them was abused in a boarding school here in the states. You don't have to look far sometimes to find other survivors and those that don't .

So sorry for your loss and his families loss.

Ken

_________________________
Ken Followell

Everything works out right in the end. If things are not working right, it isn't the end yet. Don't let it bother you, relax and keep on goin
- Michael C. Muhammad

"I get up. I walk. I fall down. Meanwhile, I keep dancing."
� Rabbi Hillel

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#29750 - 05/13/02 05:33 AM Re: flashback blues
fenics Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 25
Loc: Midlands UK
Lloydy

My heart goes out to you. Please, be good to yourself while your in the pit.

Fenics


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#29751 - 05/29/02 04:29 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
I'm sorry to hear about your loss, but in many ways i envy your friend for having the courage to do what he needed to do. I admire him. I've attempted suicide a few times and either i'm very unsuccessful or i lack the courage to do it right, you see, since i was very small and abused by my uncle i've always known i'd kill myself. I've sat contemplating it numerous times, but i always chicken out or half-heartedly attept it and just end up in the hospital again. I think your friend took a very honarable way out. I am very saddened he hurt his wife and children though. I would never do that, of course, that is one reason i do not have a wife or children. I thought for a long time my suicide attempts were a way to get love from my family and friends. Now, i have come to the realization that i do not want that, I could care less. It is just that I despise myself so much and feel such shame and guilt that i know things will never feel better for me. I've been in therapy for 18 months now, and i guess i'm trusting my therapist. The problem is....I DO NOT TRUST MYSELF.....I have finally gotten him to realize that this is my pitfall...I hate myself so much for letting those things happen to me, it destroyed my capacity to love or be loved.. I just loved my uncle so much, how was I to know those things would destroy my whole life, i just wish i had the courage your friend displayed....I know it is very hard for you, but please think of him in a positive light....He just did what he felt he had to do....He had no other choice, do any of us really have any other choice????? Life is just so miserable to bear......I so wish i could muster his courage today.......


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#29752 - 05/29/02 07:15 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michaelb
I feel for you, I read your post in tears.
But it's not the answer my friend.
It's something that has affected me greatly over many years, I have lost 2 friends to suicide, both with sexual problems- Mick a victim of SA. And recently my brother attempted suicide due to stress and depression. And believe me I've been there as well.
What my dear friend Mick did wasn't couragous, he didn't take the honourable way out. He lost. He lost everything and the bastards that abused him won, although to say they "won" makes it sound like a game, it isn't. But I know they walk, live and breath- Mick doesn't. I will never ever see him again.
What you say about trust is so true to SA victims, that's what was taken away from us by force. It's the reason so many of us hang onto the secret for so long, we don't know who to trust. As children the most powerful people in our world shattered the trust we had in them. Some abused us, others ignored us, and they were all part of the world that was supposed to care for us. Even those adults that did care we couldn't tell, we didn't know if we could trust them.
You say you're gaining trust with your therapist, even if it's a tiny bit cling onto it, develop it. If you recognise that little bit of trust it will work both ways, and you will begin to trust yourself. You've trusted yourself to write your post here, I think you must have some trust in your fellow survivors.
I trust you, I trust you enough to await your reply.
The abuse was NEVER your fault, you have NO reason to despise yourself.
Be strong Michaelb.
Lloydy

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Lloydy ]

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29753 - 05/30/02 04:58 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
Thank you for responding. My mind totally agrees with you, but my heart never will. I had a therapy session today and told my therapist of a re-occurant dream i'd been having where i'd been killing alot of people in front of my family. He thinks I have dreams like this to re-inforce the feelings of how evil and bad i am, or at least how i feel i am. I am also a kleptomaniac, stealing things of no consequence to me, he says just to make myself feel bad and hate myself for doing such stupid things. I do not know if i totally agree with him though...I guess therapy is helping though as i have not tried to do anything to myself in nearly a year....of course i have quit taking my pills for a few months now.I had open heart surgery back in january, just do not care enough about myself to keep taking all those pills. i also quit going to cardiac rehab, feeling there is really no point. the very odd thing with me though is that i've been very close to death a couple of times the last couple of years..I developed congestive heart failure, i just think it was a broken heart, i put on like 90 lbs of water weight as my heart was ceasing to function....unfortunately, i went to urgent care...i just thought i had pneumonia.....they called an ambulance rushing me to the hospital...i was told i would have drowned in my own fluid that night....i so wish i would have just stayed home.....then before i had heart surgery, i knew things were getting worse, but the pain became so extreme, that i finally agreed to surgery....i was told i'd had numerous heart attacks and was amazing i was still alive.....just my luck!!!!! things just get so hard at times........michael


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#29754 - 05/30/02 08:10 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
Your bodies telling you it aint ready to go just yet, listen to it.
It's so hard to seperate our rational and irrational sides, sat here talking to people who know the score we are rational, we know why we are screwed up. Sometimes we even see a glimmer of normality ahead as we talk amongst ourselves. I know a lot of how you feel, you know the same about me. We encourage each other and offer some advice through our keyboards and it helps.
But then we go away, go to work, down the shops or anyplace we haven't got our support structure in place and we're wrecks. Every morning I leave the house and drive my Jeep to work shaking, I've cried as I drive. Somedays I've turned back. It's leaving my safety zone that does it. But I "know" different, it's just that strange illogical thinking kicking in.
My bad dreams are fading thankfully, maybe I'm sorting my ghosts out ? but they were frequent and gave me the creeps. I was always at my childhood home, miles away from the place of my abuse, and running naked. I am about 11 in the dream,the time it started, and I don't know if I'm running away fron the abusers or running to safety with my family. There's nobody else in the dream at all. But I wake up so scared.
You write about feeling evil, bad and stupid. You dont write as though you are any of those things Michael, those feelings are the hangover of your abuse. It's what we do, we continue the feelings of hoplessnes and shame into adulthood and we develop new and better ways of feeling like shit, you're not alone in this.
Stick with the therapy, however painful. And just before you go to sleep concentrate on the best thing that happened to you all day however small it might be.
Talk to you later, take care Michael.
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29755 - 06/01/02 11:36 AM Re: flashback blues
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Hello all. I read these posts and I keep thinking of what was done to us, and what was STOLEN, yes, stolen from us. I write of a professor at Vanderbilt that I know and tell him in plain language what was done to me back in 1949 re incest, and then again in 1951 and 1952 by 18 year old paitents in a long term care hospital, and then by hospital staff. Being called a bad boy and spanked on the bare ass when I was only seven (7). Re-reading all of this post and then listening to a part of Morning Edition on public radio when they recount several other youths hiding from the gestapo like Anne Frank. Pleople, I don't put myself any wear near the likes of Anne Frank and the similar people, but as I have told that professor, I am running out of "steam." When I and other males speak about Male Sexual Abuse, one see people not wanting to listen, and others saying like one individual posted re comments he had received re male sexual abuse, "why can't a man be like a man,"and "tough it out." One side of me says - fight, fight and then some more fight, and the other side says, I don't give a shit. As one guy keeps telling us - "we are in this together" and he IS RIGHT, but when does "this together" end, or at least get better? Bos aka Michael \:\( \:\( \:\(


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#29756 - 06/01/02 12:45 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
IT'S HARD, thats for certain. and it seems like it only takes one little incident, someone pissing me off in a supermarket or something, and it seems like I can backslide for years. It soon comes back, the improvements to my life never actually go away- they just seem more inaccesible at times. And i'm trying to get past the macho thing of men not suffering, they should be able to cope etc. It's crap !!!! why the fuck should we be able to do these things just because we're male ? it's nothing to do with gender, it's all to do with what you so rightly say they stole from us.
I don't think it does end Michael, unfortunately, but it can and does get better with a little help from our friends.
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29757 - 06/01/02 02:03 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
What you say rings so true....maybe i am making progress...yesterday i was looking everywhere for a file to take to my attorney...the appointment was scheduled 2 weeks ago, but there i am yesterday morning tearing the house apart looking for the file.....i never located it, i have to find it this weekend and fax the papers monday...But yesterday i became infuriated, and maybe for the first time it was so clear how the anger was directed at myself with such intensity....I HATE MYSELF and pretty much everything about me.....but the fury i felt yesterday was above and beyond rational.....i so wanted to kill myself because i procrastinated like i always do and was so disorganized....i just felt such utter contempt for myself, i think i could have blown my head off if i would have had a gun at the time.....what was new for me was seeing how directly the anger was geared towards myself....i remember when i was admitted to the hospital the first time for a suicide attempt, they kept asking me why i was so angry at myself....i receognized no anger towards myself...in fact i've isolated myself in a cocoon for so long, i simply never allowed myself to feel anger very often....i know when i was a child i was not allowed to be angry.....a few times in my adult life when the anger has just bubbled out of me, i've been so afraid of what i might do to somebody.....controlling something you do not understand is very difficult and although i cannot kill a spider in my house, i'm becoming more and more aware of the consequences of such intense anger if i let it be directed towards other people....it really scares me sometimes what i might do....I guess i'm understanding myself more.....maybe....although i'm virually certain abuse took place, as i have recalled???? some memories, they are so hazy, fragmented, etc.....i just keep trying to deny that anything ever happened, i know i'm frustrating my therapist....he was pushing me to remember more, but has backed off a little.....i think he was trying to validate my trust of him, but that has never been my problem.....it is the lack of trust of myself that is my core problem....i really do not think that will ever be altered....i've just felt myself getting mentally strained again the last few weeks....i quit taking my anti-depressants and my heart pills, not sure why.....i guess maybe i cause alot of my own despair.....i know after i got out of the hospital the first time, i refused to take anti-depressants.....i still really question if they work, i still sit and cry alot when i'm on them, but maybe they do not allow me to go the places i'm going now in my mind.....i guess they diminish the suicidal thoughts to thoughts, and not obesssions like i'm feeling they are for me right now.....i just hope when i do finally muster the courage, i will not hurt anybody else....the other evening i was driving home on the freeway and falling asleep at the wheel, i know i should have pulled off, but i did not.....i keep dozing off while my car veered onto the median....i awoke in time to pull the car back on the road, but wondered to myself WHY??????......What has really disturbed me since realizing i was probably abused is that other people feel the same way i do....THAT IS JUST SO DAMN SAD FOR ME!!!!!...i thought i was the only person that felt this bad, thinking that, made the constant pain tolerable.....but learning so many others feel this constant emptiness, hopelessness, despair, etc.......i guess it just makes things seem worse.....Does that make any sense to you?????........Your dreaming of running is so familiar to me....I have had similar thoughts since i was 3-4 when my abuse began.....i am down by the creek catching tadpoles and i do not realize how dark it has gotten....so i head home alongside the road, until this car comes by and a man asks me if i need a ride....i never see his face, just a cigarette....i become so terrified, knowing if i get in the car, i will die......i just take off running, running, running.....i guess i'm still running..............................i need to ask you something.....i was 4 or so and would have fantasies about me being hercules and making my slaves perform oral sex on me.....this is a "fantasy" i've never forgotten.....of course, i was 4 in 1962....oral sex was not discussed.....how did i know so much about it????? why did i want to be bog, strong and powerful like hercules????.....you know, for so long i've rationalized that this meant i was gay.....i've never touched or kissed a guy, although i do fantasize about that.....i'm an ok looking guy and have been approached by alot of guys, some of them very attractive, but have never engaged in any sexual contact with them.....of course, the same can be said about women, though i have made out with women and fondled their breasts......i just feel sometimes that the emotional damage done to me and my ignorance for not seeking help at an earlier age has cemented my fate of this constant life of torment......maybe now you understand how i envy your friend........michael


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