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#29748 - 05/11/02 08:51 PM flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Today I visited a grave, I hadn't been there since we buried my childhood friend at the age of 41 in 1996.
We grew up together from the age of 5 and went to the same boarding school at 11.
I was abused there for 4 years, it wasn't a happy place.
We left in 1968 and lived in the same small town, so saw each other about, hung out as teenagers do, got married and all the regular stuff.
In May '96 he went back to the school and hung himself from a tree in a secluded part of the grounds. A place I knew well.
At the time I suspected why he did this, and a couple of years later it's something I exlplored with my therapist. I was 90% sure he was abused as well, but by another gang of older boys.
Today I shed a tear for him and was suddenly punched by a memory of a conversation we had at school when we compared out experiences at the hands of our abusers. I can't remember the exact words but I know this conversation took place.
Now I'm 100% sure, I've never been so positive about a memory in my life.
It's bad, tonight I feel like shit. This funny, decent, nice guy with a wife and kids was killed by these bastards.
If there was any justice they would stand accused of murder.
Spare a though for Mick, he never made it here

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29749 - 05/12/02 11:11 PM Re: flashback blues
Ken Followell Offline
President
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 12/30/01
Posts: 990
Loc: Bradenton, FL
Lloydy,

I am so sorry to hear about Mick. I am afraid many of the perps out there should stand accused of murder. With all the children and teens hurting themselves and killing themselves, the abuse is probably so much more wide spread than we think. You and Mick deserved better.

When I first remembered my abuse at the hands of an uncle I told my 3 co workers. One of them was abused in a boarding school here in the states. You don't have to look far sometimes to find other survivors and those that don't .

So sorry for your loss and his families loss.

Ken

_________________________
Ken Followell

Everything works out right in the end. If things are not working right, it isn't the end yet. Don't let it bother you, relax and keep on goin
- Michael C. Muhammad

"I get up. I walk. I fall down. Meanwhile, I keep dancing."
� Rabbi Hillel

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#29750 - 05/13/02 05:33 AM Re: flashback blues
fenics Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 25
Loc: Midlands UK
Lloydy

My heart goes out to you. Please, be good to yourself while your in the pit.

Fenics


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#29751 - 05/29/02 04:29 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
I'm sorry to hear about your loss, but in many ways i envy your friend for having the courage to do what he needed to do. I admire him. I've attempted suicide a few times and either i'm very unsuccessful or i lack the courage to do it right, you see, since i was very small and abused by my uncle i've always known i'd kill myself. I've sat contemplating it numerous times, but i always chicken out or half-heartedly attept it and just end up in the hospital again. I think your friend took a very honarable way out. I am very saddened he hurt his wife and children though. I would never do that, of course, that is one reason i do not have a wife or children. I thought for a long time my suicide attempts were a way to get love from my family and friends. Now, i have come to the realization that i do not want that, I could care less. It is just that I despise myself so much and feel such shame and guilt that i know things will never feel better for me. I've been in therapy for 18 months now, and i guess i'm trusting my therapist. The problem is....I DO NOT TRUST MYSELF.....I have finally gotten him to realize that this is my pitfall...I hate myself so much for letting those things happen to me, it destroyed my capacity to love or be loved.. I just loved my uncle so much, how was I to know those things would destroy my whole life, i just wish i had the courage your friend displayed....I know it is very hard for you, but please think of him in a positive light....He just did what he felt he had to do....He had no other choice, do any of us really have any other choice????? Life is just so miserable to bear......I so wish i could muster his courage today.......


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#29752 - 05/29/02 07:15 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michaelb
I feel for you, I read your post in tears.
But it's not the answer my friend.
It's something that has affected me greatly over many years, I have lost 2 friends to suicide, both with sexual problems- Mick a victim of SA. And recently my brother attempted suicide due to stress and depression. And believe me I've been there as well.
What my dear friend Mick did wasn't couragous, he didn't take the honourable way out. He lost. He lost everything and the bastards that abused him won, although to say they "won" makes it sound like a game, it isn't. But I know they walk, live and breath- Mick doesn't. I will never ever see him again.
What you say about trust is so true to SA victims, that's what was taken away from us by force. It's the reason so many of us hang onto the secret for so long, we don't know who to trust. As children the most powerful people in our world shattered the trust we had in them. Some abused us, others ignored us, and they were all part of the world that was supposed to care for us. Even those adults that did care we couldn't tell, we didn't know if we could trust them.
You say you're gaining trust with your therapist, even if it's a tiny bit cling onto it, develop it. If you recognise that little bit of trust it will work both ways, and you will begin to trust yourself. You've trusted yourself to write your post here, I think you must have some trust in your fellow survivors.
I trust you, I trust you enough to await your reply.
The abuse was NEVER your fault, you have NO reason to despise yourself.
Be strong Michaelb.
Lloydy

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Lloydy ]

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29753 - 05/30/02 04:58 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
Thank you for responding. My mind totally agrees with you, but my heart never will. I had a therapy session today and told my therapist of a re-occurant dream i'd been having where i'd been killing alot of people in front of my family. He thinks I have dreams like this to re-inforce the feelings of how evil and bad i am, or at least how i feel i am. I am also a kleptomaniac, stealing things of no consequence to me, he says just to make myself feel bad and hate myself for doing such stupid things. I do not know if i totally agree with him though...I guess therapy is helping though as i have not tried to do anything to myself in nearly a year....of course i have quit taking my pills for a few months now.I had open heart surgery back in january, just do not care enough about myself to keep taking all those pills. i also quit going to cardiac rehab, feeling there is really no point. the very odd thing with me though is that i've been very close to death a couple of times the last couple of years..I developed congestive heart failure, i just think it was a broken heart, i put on like 90 lbs of water weight as my heart was ceasing to function....unfortunately, i went to urgent care...i just thought i had pneumonia.....they called an ambulance rushing me to the hospital...i was told i would have drowned in my own fluid that night....i so wish i would have just stayed home.....then before i had heart surgery, i knew things were getting worse, but the pain became so extreme, that i finally agreed to surgery....i was told i'd had numerous heart attacks and was amazing i was still alive.....just my luck!!!!! things just get so hard at times........michael


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#29754 - 05/30/02 08:10 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
Your bodies telling you it aint ready to go just yet, listen to it.
It's so hard to seperate our rational and irrational sides, sat here talking to people who know the score we are rational, we know why we are screwed up. Sometimes we even see a glimmer of normality ahead as we talk amongst ourselves. I know a lot of how you feel, you know the same about me. We encourage each other and offer some advice through our keyboards and it helps.
But then we go away, go to work, down the shops or anyplace we haven't got our support structure in place and we're wrecks. Every morning I leave the house and drive my Jeep to work shaking, I've cried as I drive. Somedays I've turned back. It's leaving my safety zone that does it. But I "know" different, it's just that strange illogical thinking kicking in.
My bad dreams are fading thankfully, maybe I'm sorting my ghosts out ? but they were frequent and gave me the creeps. I was always at my childhood home, miles away from the place of my abuse, and running naked. I am about 11 in the dream,the time it started, and I don't know if I'm running away fron the abusers or running to safety with my family. There's nobody else in the dream at all. But I wake up so scared.
You write about feeling evil, bad and stupid. You dont write as though you are any of those things Michael, those feelings are the hangover of your abuse. It's what we do, we continue the feelings of hoplessnes and shame into adulthood and we develop new and better ways of feeling like shit, you're not alone in this.
Stick with the therapy, however painful. And just before you go to sleep concentrate on the best thing that happened to you all day however small it might be.
Talk to you later, take care Michael.
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29755 - 06/01/02 11:36 AM Re: flashback blues
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Hello all. I read these posts and I keep thinking of what was done to us, and what was STOLEN, yes, stolen from us. I write of a professor at Vanderbilt that I know and tell him in plain language what was done to me back in 1949 re incest, and then again in 1951 and 1952 by 18 year old paitents in a long term care hospital, and then by hospital staff. Being called a bad boy and spanked on the bare ass when I was only seven (7). Re-reading all of this post and then listening to a part of Morning Edition on public radio when they recount several other youths hiding from the gestapo like Anne Frank. Pleople, I don't put myself any wear near the likes of Anne Frank and the similar people, but as I have told that professor, I am running out of "steam." When I and other males speak about Male Sexual Abuse, one see people not wanting to listen, and others saying like one individual posted re comments he had received re male sexual abuse, "why can't a man be like a man,"and "tough it out." One side of me says - fight, fight and then some more fight, and the other side says, I don't give a shit. As one guy keeps telling us - "we are in this together" and he IS RIGHT, but when does "this together" end, or at least get better? Bos aka Michael \:\( \:\( \:\(


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#29756 - 06/01/02 12:45 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
IT'S HARD, thats for certain. and it seems like it only takes one little incident, someone pissing me off in a supermarket or something, and it seems like I can backslide for years. It soon comes back, the improvements to my life never actually go away- they just seem more inaccesible at times. And i'm trying to get past the macho thing of men not suffering, they should be able to cope etc. It's crap !!!! why the fuck should we be able to do these things just because we're male ? it's nothing to do with gender, it's all to do with what you so rightly say they stole from us.
I don't think it does end Michael, unfortunately, but it can and does get better with a little help from our friends.
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29757 - 06/01/02 02:03 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
What you say rings so true....maybe i am making progress...yesterday i was looking everywhere for a file to take to my attorney...the appointment was scheduled 2 weeks ago, but there i am yesterday morning tearing the house apart looking for the file.....i never located it, i have to find it this weekend and fax the papers monday...But yesterday i became infuriated, and maybe for the first time it was so clear how the anger was directed at myself with such intensity....I HATE MYSELF and pretty much everything about me.....but the fury i felt yesterday was above and beyond rational.....i so wanted to kill myself because i procrastinated like i always do and was so disorganized....i just felt such utter contempt for myself, i think i could have blown my head off if i would have had a gun at the time.....what was new for me was seeing how directly the anger was geared towards myself....i remember when i was admitted to the hospital the first time for a suicide attempt, they kept asking me why i was so angry at myself....i receognized no anger towards myself...in fact i've isolated myself in a cocoon for so long, i simply never allowed myself to feel anger very often....i know when i was a child i was not allowed to be angry.....a few times in my adult life when the anger has just bubbled out of me, i've been so afraid of what i might do to somebody.....controlling something you do not understand is very difficult and although i cannot kill a spider in my house, i'm becoming more and more aware of the consequences of such intense anger if i let it be directed towards other people....it really scares me sometimes what i might do....I guess i'm understanding myself more.....maybe....although i'm virually certain abuse took place, as i have recalled???? some memories, they are so hazy, fragmented, etc.....i just keep trying to deny that anything ever happened, i know i'm frustrating my therapist....he was pushing me to remember more, but has backed off a little.....i think he was trying to validate my trust of him, but that has never been my problem.....it is the lack of trust of myself that is my core problem....i really do not think that will ever be altered....i've just felt myself getting mentally strained again the last few weeks....i quit taking my anti-depressants and my heart pills, not sure why.....i guess maybe i cause alot of my own despair.....i know after i got out of the hospital the first time, i refused to take anti-depressants.....i still really question if they work, i still sit and cry alot when i'm on them, but maybe they do not allow me to go the places i'm going now in my mind.....i guess they diminish the suicidal thoughts to thoughts, and not obesssions like i'm feeling they are for me right now.....i just hope when i do finally muster the courage, i will not hurt anybody else....the other evening i was driving home on the freeway and falling asleep at the wheel, i know i should have pulled off, but i did not.....i keep dozing off while my car veered onto the median....i awoke in time to pull the car back on the road, but wondered to myself WHY??????......What has really disturbed me since realizing i was probably abused is that other people feel the same way i do....THAT IS JUST SO DAMN SAD FOR ME!!!!!...i thought i was the only person that felt this bad, thinking that, made the constant pain tolerable.....but learning so many others feel this constant emptiness, hopelessness, despair, etc.......i guess it just makes things seem worse.....Does that make any sense to you?????........Your dreaming of running is so familiar to me....I have had similar thoughts since i was 3-4 when my abuse began.....i am down by the creek catching tadpoles and i do not realize how dark it has gotten....so i head home alongside the road, until this car comes by and a man asks me if i need a ride....i never see his face, just a cigarette....i become so terrified, knowing if i get in the car, i will die......i just take off running, running, running.....i guess i'm still running..............................i need to ask you something.....i was 4 or so and would have fantasies about me being hercules and making my slaves perform oral sex on me.....this is a "fantasy" i've never forgotten.....of course, i was 4 in 1962....oral sex was not discussed.....how did i know so much about it????? why did i want to be bog, strong and powerful like hercules????.....you know, for so long i've rationalized that this meant i was gay.....i've never touched or kissed a guy, although i do fantasize about that.....i'm an ok looking guy and have been approached by alot of guys, some of them very attractive, but have never engaged in any sexual contact with them.....of course, the same can be said about women, though i have made out with women and fondled their breasts......i just feel sometimes that the emotional damage done to me and my ignorance for not seeking help at an earlier age has cemented my fate of this constant life of torment......maybe now you understand how i envy your friend........michael


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#29758 - 06/01/02 09:27 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
hi Michael
you keep coming back, you're making progress my friend.
Anger and rage is so much a way of life to us, and I guess it affects us in different ways. Years ago I took it out on other people, thankfully not my wife or close friends, generally arseholes I worked with, I've had a lot of jobs !!
But as I got older it subsided, I wasn't so handy with the fists, but I still get into rages over stupid things. A few weeks ago I was trying to put a reel of welding wire into my welding machine and it kept unravelling. In the end I just kicked the shit out of it. A pure senseless rage that meant I had to drive to the shop and buy another reel of wire. Shit like this happens all the time. It wrecks me, I sit there crying and hating myself for what I've done. It has NEVER made me feel better. but I think it's getting less frequent.
I guess that we need to direct our anger at the people who made us this way. What the answer is to that I can't say, maybe log on here and have a rant ? stand in the yard and shout at the moon ? whatever, find a release for it. Buy a punchbag and write your abusers name in big letters across it, it might work ?
I watched a boxing match on tv tonight, I was in a pub with loads of other guys cheering and shouting like animals. It was a really good fast scrap between 2 evenly matched middleweight boxers. It might be very politically incorrect to enjoy such sports these days but what the fuck ?
Watching these guys knock seven bells of shit out of each other allowed me to imagine I was doing it to alan, peter and all the other scumbags who abused me.
Dont let your therapist push you into remembering things, let the memories come at their own speed and give yourself time to think about them. The only speed to go is YOUR speed.
And don't worry for the rest of us Michael, we're doing that for ourselves, look after number one- YOU.
Your question about sexual fantasies at a very early age is a difficult one, I believe my earliest sexual thoughts were about 6 or 7, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were sooner. The first sexual experience I ever had was about that age when a man took my hand and rubbed it on his penis, outside his trousers. Strangely I have never counted this in my abusuive history, but I remember it with extrodinary
clarity. I believe I was aware of sex at that age but lacked the details, but it doesn't take much for a child to grasp something especially if it's naughty.
Become Hercules Michael, you can do it. My dear friend Mick never had the chance
'later
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29759 - 06/03/02 04:03 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
I'm not going to ramble so much today as i'm afraid i'm boring the hell out of you...I think that if my therapist does not push me a little that i'll fall back into denying any abuse ever took place....i teeter on that ledge every day....it would be so much easier to just deny the abuse like i have for the last 40 years or so...am i happier knowing about the abuse?????NO!!!!!!....you know i should feel less anger, guilt and shame, but to the contrary i feel it so much more intensely now....just really do not think that will ever subside....most of the time to survive mentally, i just think that i'm imagining this stuff and it happened to somebody else, not to me.....it just seems so unreal most of the time.....i'm such a coward......i'm glad you enjoyed the boxing match.......do i need to ask who you'll be rooting for lennox lewis or tyson???????.......things have been kind of tough here today....a local high school teacher/coach committed suicide yesterday because he was being investigated by the police for having sex with a few high school girls.....although remembering how girls used to throw themselves at high school teachers/coaches, i know how often this occurs......the older guys are always held accountable, but from what i've seen, it is usually the teen age girls instigating the whole thing.....i guess some people might think of this as child abuse, guess i do not.....now if the girl is in jr. high, then the circumstances are very different.....anyway his suicide just hit me hard, because i've attempted it the way he did.....leaving the car running in the garage....unfortunately when i tried it, i started thinking about how the fumes were going to kill my pets and i just could not make that happen to them.....i guess it was just another cop-out........well, better let you go.....take care......mr. holyfield.......michael


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#29760 - 06/04/02 10:33 AM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
Do you think our history makes us stronger in some perverse way ? I think so. The teacher who killed himself probably didn't have our kind of past, and the chances are he couldn't cope with half of what we have had to we endure. He made a big mistake, was going to lose his job, but it isn't the worst thing in the world.
My other friend who killed himself was just caught stealing his neighbours panties off the washing line, all he was in for was a small fine and some big time embarrasment and piss taking. But he couldn't face it....
Maybe time and our way of dealing with our abuse has taught us more than we realise, we've learned to deal with our big pile of crap in ways we don't recognise, although it might not seem like it.

Lewis is the man for me, Tyson is just a thug who should be left to one side. Anyone who uses force and violence outside of the ring should be banned.

'later
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29761 - 06/04/02 04:36 PM Re: flashback blues
Anonymous
Unregistered


You astonish me,Lloydy. Every once in awhile I read something of deep import at survivor sites.
This is one.
====================
Maybe time and our way of dealing with our abuse has taught us more than we realise, we've learned to deal with our big pile of crap in ways we don't recognise, although it might not seem like it.


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#29762 - 06/04/02 06:27 PM Re: flashback blues
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
Lloydy, Tinfoil,

I am continually amazed at the variety of coping skills that I've witnessed in survivors. Those skills got us this far and I think they'll take us the distance. What can I say, I'm an optimist when I'm not being pessimistic.

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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#29763 - 06/04/02 06:39 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
So the theft of his neighbors panties is what precipitated your friend's suicide???? kind of amazing with life's challenges that this minor incident would instigate that, though i guess i can relate....i have had a problem with stealing things i do not want/need, i've been diagnosed with kleptomania.....about a year and a half ago i was arrested again and my family found out, for the first time.....i always thought this was the guilt and shame that was eating me alive.....but them finding out really did not bother me that much.....i'va always thought i was just so messed up because i was gay and could not handle that, god forbid my mother ever find out.....well, a few months ago when i was staying there after my congestive heart failure, she found a couple of gay magazines in my room....she layed them on the bed to let me know she had found them....she said i should be ashamed of myself.....in essence, i said f--- you!!!!!! she is no moral power of virtue......she moved her boyfriend into her house when my sister was 16, a few months after my father died.....also, she had a dildo hidden in her room for many years....one day my little sister brought it outside while some neighbors were over...she asked my mom what it was.....my mom went bullistic.....i had to stop her from beating my sister to death....so i no longer will accept my moral authority from her.....i've always craved love from her and i've finally came to the realization that she is incapable of love......and i realized i have to care about myself and not care about her.....the not caring about her has been much easier than anticipated....the really hard thing is trying to care about myself.....do not have that mastered yet, not sure i ever will.......maybe our past has given us some strength, BUT AT WHAT COST??????constant unhappiness and self-loathing????? not a good trade off in my book...........


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#29764 - 06/04/02 08:13 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Well thanks Tinfoil, \:o
But I do think we have developed something special for our "sins". The guilt I've dumped on myself after years of acting out and cottaging, neglecting my wife, and most of all believing the abuse was all my fault has been enormous. And now I'm coming out the other side I really do wonder how I coped, and survived Michael, I've been there. Self imposed guilt is the worst feeling in the world.
The normal pressures of life I used to dump on others, my long suffering wife usually, as I went into my alternative world of fantasy where everything was under my control.
Funnily enough I have been trying to explain this to my wife tonight. We are trying to decide where to go on holiday, and there are other complications with my aged parents to consider as well, and this is giving me a real hard time. But this should be normal stuff for someone in my position. The difference is that now I'm not retreating into my fantasy world and basically ignoring it and leaving it for her to sort out, I'm having to deal with it and I dont know how. It's a different set of tools than those I used to rely on, and they're blunt and useless. And it aint as simple as going to the store for nice new sharp ones. But the old ones served their purpose, they got me through 30 years of shit.
It's a major job for me to learn the normal things in life, I'm 48 and spent over 30 of those years fucked up and in denial, that's a very rapid learning curve and there's many times I have my doubts about it. It's so easy to backslide and take the easy way out again.
Michael, I guess it's hard to shy away from your mother, but I found that being selfish and saying "fuck it, I'm looking after me !" was always a great way of coping with other people.
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29765 - 06/05/02 12:05 AM Re: flashback blues
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
This is for you Michaelb

http://home.talkcity.com/KarmaWay/drgore/tiewaz.html

Rune = TIEWAZ

Warrior

( Tiwaz, Teiws, Tiw, Tyr, Tir )

Color: Red

Number(s): 3

Astrological Sign: Aries

Stone(s): Bloodstone, Hematite, Ruby

***ociated Tarot Card: IV - The Emporer

.....The RUNE Tiewaz is the RUNE of stability and ordering force. One of the greatest sides of Tiewaz's being is it's socio-religious nature as the RUNE of law. The spear shape of this RUNE shows the weopon of the sky-father god and lord of victory. The image of the one-handed god lifting a spear is shown in numerous indo-european carvings. This god is Tyr. Tyr originally held the highest place among the gods, as sky-father and lord of Law, Courage and War (As well as the god of Oaths, Honor and Absolute Justice). Only when the RUNES and their power came known to humans did Odin become the all-father, ***uming such sides of Tyr's being as did not contradict his own nature.

..... Tiewaz represents the separation of of the heavans and the earth. Tyr, and thus Tiewaz, is essentially a unipolar being, as evidenced by his one-handedness - a literal sign that he is bound to a single course of action.

..... Tiewaz is the main RUNE used by, or on behalf, of those who are/were not themselves greatly skilled in runeword. As such, this RUNE was used a lot by the warriors.

DIVINATION

~Duty, Discipline, Responsibility, Self Sacrifice, Conflict, Strength, A Wound, Physicality.

~The Warrior path.

~Use patience, there are rewards to this.

~Look within yourself for the strength you need.

~Be able to be alone.

~Dedication, Bravery, Courage, Justice, Objectivity, Judgement, Fairness.

~Relationship: Combined strength, Authority - May be conflicts over who is boss.

~You need to have faith that is unattatched to outcomes.

~The real enemy may be yourself - examine what you are doing.

~Examine new partnerships.

REVERSED

~Watch hasty actions.

~Examine your motives carefully.

~Matters of trust and confidence are at issue.

~Short-lived lust.

~***ociations may be short-lived, but have served their purpose.

~Focus on the outcomes, not the task itself.

MAGIC USES

~Protection, Strength and victory.

~Justice - Obtain absolute justice.

~Increase Courage, Honor and Strength.

****Can be used directly against another in revenge-defense magic -- ONLY if the cause is JUST!!****

HEALING

~To heal a wound.

~Calm someone.

~Give someone a strong will.

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#29766 - 06/05/02 12:09 AM Re: flashback blues
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
i can't believe that A$$uming and A$$ociation are considered bad words here...what is up with that?

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#29767 - 06/05/02 05:57 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
Orodo......the only thing i understood from that sight was the part about gaining knowledge by hanging oneself from a tree....maybe that is the only thing i can relate to......................................................LLOYDY>>>>>> you talk about defeating your guilt and shame...how do/did you do this....you really think therapy will help?????? btw, i am a math wiz and realize you have been dealing with this problem since you were 18.....did you go through therapy????? did you begin remembering the abuse at 18??????....how long before therapy became easier??????? DO YOU LIKE YOURSELF NOW??????????????????????????????? michaelb


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#29768 - 06/05/02 06:49 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
My biggest problem is maths, I'm dyslexic with numbers (dyscalculia I think it's called ) so when I write something about my past I tend to guestimate dates. But if I think about it a bit I get it right. I was abused first, one incident, at about 6 yrs. Then at school from 11 to 16 yrs.
from then till I was 45 all I did was go downhill, but I always suspected that what went on at school had a lot to do with it, I just hadn't figured out what and why. I guess I found a way of dealing with it, badly, but it kept me going.
Luckily I recognized that I either had to something, I didn't know what, or I was going to get worse and lose it altogether, and I saw an adver in the local paper for a charity that offered therapy for adult SA victims. I took weeks and several attempts before I let the phone ring long enough to get an answer.
I had about 3 yrs therapy, 1 to 1, and since then I've worked at it myself. This site being the best way I've found.
Defeating my guilt and shame has been the hardest part, and I think I have only done it by sharing it with those I love, which took a hell of job. I didn't know what their reaction would be. But my wife and a few close friends now know EVERYTHING. I now know how lucky I am to have them. But other peoples reactions to my past, not least here on this site, have confirmed to me that I did NOTHING wrong. Very regular abuse over 4 years trained me to behave like the instigator, I would ask my abusers what they wanted me to do. that remained with me until the last couple of years, sometimes it's still there a bit. But just because I asked them doesn't make me the same as them. THEY were the abusers, something I never lose sight of now.
I was incredibly lucky to get a specialist therapist and with very intensive work I got over the worst in 2 1/2 years or so. But I still have the occasional chat.
And I do like myself now, mainly because other people like me too. Something I never recognised before. I thought everyone was out to screw me somehow, but they weren't.
talk to you later Michael
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29769 - 06/06/02 12:27 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
Now i understand better......did you not remember the abuse at all, or were you fully aware of it your entire life.....i remember very little, and have been totally unable to remember any of the sex acts.....not surprising i guess, since not only can i not have sex, but i cannot even dream about having sex.....very screwed up, i know.....the 2 1/2 years scares me a little, that means i have another year of feeling this turmoil?????? i told my family and they all deny the abuse ever happened because my mother convinced them of this, even though they have no way of knowing since i am the oldest.....the uncle that abused me impregnated my 15-year-old cousin, his niece, and tried to sleep with my 15-year-old sister.....my mother is fully aware of all of this, but still denies the possibility.....of course, i try to deny the possibility too......but her initial reaction to me when i told her was, "I'll call your uncle and ask him".......to me is totally unforgivable, i will never forgive her for that.....NEVER!!!!! we have had a very strained relationship for a number of years, but at this point, i think it is beyond repair....i've been searching for her love, love she is incapable of giving, for so long......i just refuse to waste anymore time trying to be "WORTHY" of her love.....F----!!!!! she is not worthy of my love, i will not continue to try......i will co-exist, nothing more.........i do have fragmented memories of a couple of incidents when i was a teenager spending weekends with my uncle.....my therapist thinks my abuse began at such a young age that is why my memories are so fragmented and i'm so messed up.....he says i may never recall things......the uncertainty and the not "really" knowing is so taxing.......maybe i need to start drinking to forget..........michael


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#29770 - 06/06/02 03:35 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
Don't get hung up on what you've forgotten, and I promise you drinking doesn't help you remember or forget, all it does to me is make the depression worse, and the hangovers are just too much.
I can remember everything just about, each incident, and who did what. My problem was that I immediately started to use the memories as fantasy when the abuse stopped, just distorting them so that I was "really" in charge, not just playing at being in charge. What they did was initially beat and rape me then groom me to ask them for sex, suggest different things to do. This way it became "my fault" and their consciences remained clear. They probably still are.
The amount or the content of the memories aren't important, if you've been abused 1 time or a 1000 times it's too many.
Work with what you've got and take support from those who support you.
Later
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29771 - 06/06/02 07:28 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
I'm not sure if the uncertainty is a blessing or a curse....my therapist tells me i will remember more when i can mentally cope....you think that is really possible????? In many ways i need to remember everything, but yet i'm so terrified at how i'll cope with the truth.....i guess what jack nicholson said to tom cruise in a few good men is true.....I CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH.......at least not all the truth.....i question whether i will ever be able to deal with the truth......we'll see.....thanks for being here......michael


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#29772 - 06/06/02 07:43 PM Re: flashback blues
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi michaelb. Your mom called your uncle? Same with me. I told my sister about mom. Sis burned up the phone lines to momma,told momma what I had said. Mom & sis tagged me a nutcase on the spot. I thought it immensely humorous then and still do.


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#29773 - 06/06/02 07:56 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
the truth dont hurt- lies do. We've been lied to, deeply and persistently in the past, until we believed the abusers lies. Getting rid of the lies is more important than regaining every bit of truth. Let the memories come as they want to come, deal with the lies and you'll find the truth. It'll be all that's left.
'later
Lloydy \:\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29774 - 06/08/02 12:08 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
Tinfoil.....thanks for responding...my mom did not actually call my uncle, it was a threat....you see, the last time she spoke to him, my stepfather took the phone from her because my uncle was telling her very explicity what he wanted to do to her sexually....if she called him, my stepfather would hit the roof.....i think my uncle has always had a thing for my mom, hell, for all i know, they may have had an affair, back when i was little, or maybe before i was born.....i've actually considered the possibility that my uncle might be my father....but i've discounted that possibility.....maybe my uncle abused me because my mom turned him down, who knows????????? Lloydy.....the tough thing for me is all of the uncertainty.....it is like is this stuff real or am i just imagining stuff????/ i've actually thought i was loosing my mind the last couple of years, why is all of this crap coming up now???? well, guess i know the answer to that one...it is probably because i was so close to death....i almost died with congestive heart failure, most of the time i wish i would have....it would have been much easier than to deal with what i'm looking at.............michael


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#29775 - 06/08/02 08:02 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
I guess we all live with uncertainty, if we knew exactly what was going to happen, knew all the answers we wouldn't have anything left to think about except the past. And for some of us we'd rather leave that behind.
The scrapes with death I've had, either at my own or someone elses hands, have left me looking forward to the future, with all it's uncertainties. I look forward to tommorrow incase it's sunny and I can get the bbq fired up as much as I look forward to retiring to a life in the sun ( I fancy Utah )
They've made me stronger in a strange way. We have all used amazing strengths to get this far, strengths we don't know we've got. But we've all got them.
talk to you later Michael
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29776 - 06/12/02 12:44 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
I was really relating well to you, until you told me you want to retire to UTAH??????????? why utah??????? i'm joking, guess utah is ok, but i've not heard many people talk about retiring there unless they are mormons...i have a branch of my family that live in fresno that are mormons.......utah is like their mecca......my passages with death just make me sorry that i'm not gone yet....i see absolutely no reason to still be here, as i feel i really have nothing to live for....and if the only reason i'm still alive is to remember things i think might have happened, well that is the cruelest joke of all.....i do not believe much in god, if there is one, i find him very cruel and vengeful and frankly not a being i'd care to associate with.....i just see and feel so much pain, hurt, etc...in the world......i just want the courage to exit.........michael


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#29777 - 06/12/02 03:40 PM Re: flashback blues
Cement Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 740
Loc: Southern California
I am, as always, tempted to open with a joke to diffuse what is a very serious discussion.

Have you considered that some element of not being able to find good stuff in life is that you are in Ohio? Joking, please, I am joking.

That said, my move to California from the Northeast enabled me to remove myself from the dysfunction of my family and enjoy the effect that sunshine has, at least, on me.

You will find a way out of the desert. If we destroy ourselves then the abuser has won, and that should not happen. you (and all of us) can survive...and thrive.

_________________________
And let the darkness fear our light.

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#29778 - 06/12/02 08:11 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Well, when I say Utah I guess I mean the 4 corners area, Utah, New Mexico, Colorado & Arizona. I'm awed by the deserts and the history of the area. And my love of 4x4's makes this the ultimate playground, even if my "overconfidence" ( stupidity is what I really mean ) nearly killed us not far from Escalante when I drove a Jeep off the edge of the map, got lost and got stuck !! But we've been back there and still love it. The Mormons aren't a problem, or they haven't been in my experience. Not once has anyone pushed their religion at us, or even said "by the way, I'm a Mormon". But the only sight of Salt Lake City we've had was heading south on I 15, I believe it's a bit different there.
The main reason we want to move away is that I live very close to where my abuse went on and my home town where I grew up, the whole area within a 10 mile radius is riddled with unhappy memories. My job also means I drive around a larger area as well, into small towns where I know my abusers still live. One lives in the same village as my parents.
We have no kids, my brother's already in Canada, so what's stopping us ? 25 years of employment is what, I have to hang on another 4 or so until I can get my early retirement package from this shit job that gets worse by the day. It's sad to think that I put up with this just for the money, but I suppose I must. Some days I've nearly shoved the spanners up the bosses arse and walked, it's been very close.
Like you Cement, a "warped humour" get's me a long way, if I don't get into trouble first.
And Michael, he's also right when he says-
Quote:
If we destroy ourselves then the abuser has won, and that should not happen. you (and all of us) can survive...and thrive.
I don't let my boss win, I will not walk out without my pension, and I will NEVER let my abusers win, I'm so much better than them.
Lloydy \:\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29779 - 06/14/02 11:56 AM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
VERY FUNNY ABOUT OHIO!!!!!!!.....joking........to think i moved back here, i'm actually considering a move to maine or somewhere cool......maybe even cape cod if i could deal with the tourists all summer......i guess in my case, my ABUSER HAS WON!!!!!!! to pretend or say otherwise would be ridiculous.....but i do not think he did those things to me to win.....i honestly believe he loved me, he just did not realize how much of me he destroyed in the process.....i have not seen him in 7 years and really do not think i ever want to see him again, but a very big part of me still loves him......and HATES myself.....i really do not think that is ever going to change......i guess i've given up on ever finding love, but i would like to touch a few peoples live's before i die......just not sure how........life just hurts so much at times.....well, most of the time for me.......michael


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#29780 - 06/14/02 02:09 PM Re: flashback blues
Ken Followell Offline
President
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 12/30/01
Posts: 990
Loc: Bradenton, FL
Michael,

Your perp DID NOT love you. He may have said that, but love does not lead to abuse. Loving him does not say anything bad about you. We all want someone to love and to love us. But please do not confuse your abuse with love.

Real love is out there and it does not abuse us.

Ken

_________________________
Ken Followell

Everything works out right in the end. If things are not working right, it isn't the end yet. Don't let it bother you, relax and keep on goin
- Michael C. Muhammad

"I get up. I walk. I fall down. Meanwhile, I keep dancing."
� Rabbi Hillel

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#29781 - 06/14/02 06:42 PM Re: flashback blues
getteddie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 226
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
Arizona is the place to go...The Arizona Strip...one of the wildest and neatest places in the US...four wheeler's heaven..have driven out over 30 times and flown out a few more! Fly into Vegas and have a 4X4 waiting for you...just 200 miles to heaven at 100 miles an hour...good roads...no pigs!!! Get there bad roads and almost no one...the North Rim of The Grand Cayon has over 2000 miles of bad dirt roads on the topo maps...see the Cayon from 100's of over looks...just live out there...no one cares!!!!

Eddie


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#29782 - 06/14/02 08:54 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Eddie
I've done the tourist thing at the canyon twice now, helicopter rides the whole works, and it's a truly fabulous place. We stopped at a motel at Seven Mile Village ( I think ) and the owner was a 4 wheeler who made me so green with envy at the trails to drive. There's so much peace and tranquility there, despite the thousands of tourists, you only have to make a bit of effort and you're out of it. The grandeur of the canyon and the history of the native Americans who settled there make this one of my favorite places. And Vegas is sooo much fun, I don't gamble but we put aside a $100 for a few days and wander about the casino's losing it and people watching- my favorite pastime. As you might guess I love the USA.

Michael, Ken says it all, there's no love in the kind of abuse we endured. What they said was love was nothing more than someone with power and influence over us misusing it. What we gave them back was subservience. They told us it was love or affection, they lied and we believed them.
The golden rule of all abusers is to tell the victim "This is our secret" it's cast in stone that one. Once we tell someone, anyone, it's no longer a secret.
And you're right about the tourists in Cape Cod, we're a pain in the arse !!
I'm looking forward to our next trip to the States, but my wife has left her very well paying job and times are hard. Maybe I could give up drinking and smoking, eating out, my jeep....
Lloydy ;\)

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29783 - 06/17/02 01:02 PM Re: flashback blues
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
You telling me not to love my uncle is very easy, but me feeling that way is another matter....I guess i do not love him now, but i remember how deeply i loved him for my entire childhood, i guess until i spent a weekend with him when i was 15.....i'm pretty sure he raped me that weekend....even thinking about him coming into the bathroom when he knew i was taking a shower, sends cold shivers down my spine.....i've blacked out everything from him entering the room......a few days after i returned home i began sleep-walking and attempted suicide the first time a few weeks later.....but i remember the feelings of love, of adoration i had for my uncle....i actually had forgotten the depth of my feelings for him, but i will never forget now......i know i still care for him even now......i have not seen him in 7-8 years and will probably never see him again......but in many ways, i just kind of pity him.......i realize that if he did those things to me, something similar probably happened to him......all i know is that i could have very easily become a perpetrator back when i was a teenager if not for my inner strength of knowing it was wrong to do that to a little boy, but i was very tempted and came very close......i guess even though i'm not certain i believe in god, i have to thank him for giving me the strength not to abuse that little boy back then.........michaelb


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#29784 - 06/21/02 12:30 PM Re: flashback blues
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Michael
I've been reminded just how close we come to becoming perp's ourselves by a tv programe that had an interview with a pedo, it's scary !!
But that inner strength you talk about must have guided us somehow, and I bet it still does, we've gotten this far haven't we ! \:\)
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29785 - 06/21/02 02:29 PM Re: flashback blues
Cement Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 740
Loc: Southern California
Michael...

Every minute you are able to fight against an impulse, every day you are able to go on is a victory against your abuser.

I can totally understand the mixed feelings regarding love and blame. I asked my sister for my abuse, ultimately, and when she stopped, I didn't want to stop. I loved her and if she loved me, why would she stop showing it? But, you see, she was older and IN CHARGE OF ME, I was her responsibility. She knew it was wrong, and to aleviate her own guilt, she manipulated the situation so I would seem at least at guilty as she was.

Even as I write, I start to fall back into language that seems like it almost shares the guilt.

I hope you can see in my case, as I can in yours, that the perp is the problem, and the perp USED the guise of love to satisfy their own manipulative, thoughtless acts of torture.

_________________________
And let the darkness fear our light.

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