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#294735 - 07/09/09 11:45 AM Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast?
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Hi.

last night I went to a reading of someone's paper in the department. I didn't particularly want to go, but i've made a promise to myself to try and get to know more people in my area, ---- and also try and enjoy the social aspects of being a post graduate student, so I went.

The paper was intreaguing, ---- about virtues in persuing metaphysics. metaphysics isn't even my area, but as everyone offered comments and cryticisms I found myself joining in, just as I always have right from being an undergraduate. I'd just see something wrong, and nknow how to argue, how to respond, ---- all in an easy, friendly manner with plenty of jokes and light humour mixed in.

suddenly, towards the end of the evening when people were planning on going off for a drink it struck me, ---- like being hit in the head with a hammer.

What was I! doing there? what right did I have to be there, to participate. what expertees did I have, what social graces.

I expected someone to turn round and say "what're you doing here?" and literally kick me out.

It was as if I got so wound up in the discussion, I almost forgot my own worthlessness, ----- then all of a sudden remembered it again in one massive rush.

Needless to say I left, but when walking home I met one chap from the discussion and said, ---- half jokingly "appologies for my rambling" and he made a joke back, --- clearly having not reguarded either me nor my contributions to the discussion as bad at all!

I wanted to start crying, to appologise, but instead I just let my skills take over, made the pleasantries and left, ---- my shadow at my heals.

Yet, there's my own worthlessness staring me in the face like a mirror held up to my eyeballs, whatever I do, inescapable.

My logic tells me I'm just carrying on nwhere my abusers left off, that I've got every right to be in the department or anywhere else, that I already have a degree and masters and am doing a phd and am just as qualified as everyone there.

but I can't follow logic! everything I do just feels pale and pathetic, simply because of the fact that it's me that's doing it.

I hate! feeling like this!

Sorry about the wrant, and about restating this same problem again, it just seems whatever I do, wherever I go, I have this shadow of worthlessness following me, contaminating everything I do from being friends to singing to academic discussion!

I hate! feeling like this!


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#294738 - 07/09/09 12:01 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
Charlie24 Offline


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 562
I have felt like this on a number of times.

Your with others and as you say you forget your problems, forget about yourself.

We are so critical of ourselves.

Can be very challenging to show love for ourselves, give ourselves compassion.

Know your not alone in this feeling.

I think as we grow as survivors it will get better.

Those feelings of emptiness, worthlessness, have plagued me well, sadly.

Just trying my best to enjoy me, I guess.

Good luck my friend. Always great posts from you.

Charlie.


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#294746 - 07/09/09 12:30 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: Charlie24]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Hi, Dark.

I am new to this site.

I too have felt this way many times so your not alone.

I have listened to the messages without evening knowing they existed to the point of never finishing a post high school education.

What I am doing is reframing my thought process.

My best to you.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#294751 - 07/09/09 01:03 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: DJsport]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Thanks people.

As well as this overbearing worthlessness, --- which is itself pretty awful, i feel bloody frustrated! I've been doing this recovery business for 18 months now. I've been to therapy and been told all the logical reasons why I feel this way.

I know that it's the legacy of the humiliations and insults I endured as a teenager, pluss the more subtle emotional abuse I had for two years at boarding school just before then, ---- my teacher was a dead ringer for professor umbridge, even down to the cardigan and stupidly long three hours of copying punishments.

The problem is, I can't fight this feeling. To any logic I suggest I just come up with the answer "because I'm worthless" and that is that.

"Why are you worhtless?" ---- because it's me, and I am!

"Is anyone else worthless?" --- good grief no! everyone else deserves compassion, sympathy and love, and I'd be inhuman not to try my best to realize that.

"Well doesn't that including you?"

no, because I'm worthless!

"what makes you worthless?"

The fact that i am! you might just as well ask why I have dark hair, or am five foot nine, or am a tenor. It's an irriduceable, biologically ingraned fact, ---- or at least that's the way it feels, and I'm either staring that fact in the face, or destracted.

And yes, I know this is an unhelpful, stupid and utterly useless way of thinking, but I have no idea how to think differently.

"love myself?" I might as well try to love the contents of my toilet.

The only thing I do know is I won't stop trying to change this way of thinking, ---- sinse it's not in my nature to give up.

To quote a rather dramatic anime villain who somed this up very well "your tough! just like a cockroach!"


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#294759 - 07/09/09 02:49 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: dark empathy


What was I! doing there? what right did I have to be there, to participate. what expertees did I have, what social graces.

I expected someone to turn round and say "what're you doing here?" and literally kick me out.

It was as if I got so wound up in the discussion, I almost forgot my own worthlessness, ----- then all of a sudden remembered it again in one massive rush.

one chap from the discussion . . .not reguarded either me nor my contributions to the discussion as bad at all!

I wanted to start crying, to appologise, but instead I just let my skills take over, made the pleasantries and left, ----

there's my own worthlessness staring me in the face like a mirror

I'm just carrying on nwhere my abusers left off, that I've got every right to be in the department or anywhere else

but I can't follow logic! everything I do just feels pale and pathetic, simply because of the fact that it's me that's doing it.

I hate! feeling like this!


dark empathy,

I could have said the same things a number of years ago. I was so incredibly nervous with other people. I was constantly self evaluating and wondering if I was accepted. And if there was evidence that I was accepted, I wondered why.

It seems as though that is where you are today. You are obviously a wonderfully clever fellow and have done a lot despite some amazing roadblocks. It will be hard for you to accept this as the truth.

For me, I had to go through a recovery period where I "remembered" the abuse and grieved about it and then worked it through with several different professional counselors. I am beginning to accept myself and to accept that I too can function socially.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#294789 - 07/09/09 08:30 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: pufferfish]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Hi Luke,

Can you imagine any such thing as a worthless boy?

As you read over posts on the site and get to know their authors a bit better, have you ever concluded, "This is a worthless person"?

These are two questions that helped me enormously as I struggled against my own feelings of worthlessness only a few years ago.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#294792 - 07/09/09 09:12 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: roadrunner]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Alan, I'm really happy to know you got through this sort of thing.

The problem is thus far, all the counsellers I've tried have offered me is that self same logic I mentioned earlier.

yes, I totally agree, this does not make sense, ---- but logic just doesn't seem to work on this feeling, it's so ingraned, so biological, so absolutely at the core of my being I can't get rid of it.

I'm going to try an alternative approach in cbt if I can get it sorted, --- which may or may not help.

Larry, I totally agree, in fact as an ethicist I've done untold amounts of work thinking about how to considder and take into account the worth of others.

No, i cannot imagine a worthless boy, ---- nor yet a worthless girl for that matter. No, i don't think anyone I've met here is worthless either.

I understand both of these facts, and I accept them, ----- but i'm stil different in some way.

maybe it's because i think of myself as neither male nor female nor adult nor child, --- just me, singular and alone.

Maybe there's somethig in me which believes i'm less human than everyone else, ---- I'm not sure.

this seems to be the core of my abuse, and while there's also lots of fear and that huge desire for communication with another person on a certain level, my worthlessness seems to be what I struggle with most, ---- in fact I think the desire for communication is tied very much into my feeling of worthlessness.

What frustrates me is I just don't seem to be able to crack this at all.

I don't even think I know what self isteme is.


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#294796 - 07/09/09 09:46 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
Casmir213 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 845
Loc: Northeast, USA
Luke,

I'm very glad you brought up this topic. The very fact that you can talk about it here with us means that you haven't given up the fight against that feeling of worthlessness. I can relate to your frustrations and struggles with this feeling however, as I'm very much dealing with this issue on a daily basis. If fact, the other day I had an almost palpable sense of just how much I hate myself. I've never been so conscious of this feeling before, but it must always have been lurking in my unconscious and thereby having its way with my sense of self-esteem and behavior. It was always a losing battle for me to try to build self-esteem through external accomplishments, not that I gave it much of a fight.

Although I am sorry to hear of another human struggling with this issue the way I am, and this will probably sound selfish, but it's good to know that I am not alone. Sorry how that sounds, but the way you describe how this feeling impacts your life sounds very familiar to me. If you think you are alone on this you are very much mistaken. I'm not saying this to try to make you feel better or worse, and you probably already know that there are others who feel the same way that you do. I just wanted to let you know that I very much appreciate your open and honest communication regarding this subject, as it gives me a glimpse into how the same feeling that I have (and which has impacted my life greatly) plays out in another persons life.

I feel strongly that there are many other who feel this way. Perhaps one day those who do will build there sense of value up enough to start another twelve-step group. I already have the name for it. It could be called Self-Loathers Anonymous. This isn't a joke either. I really do think there is a need for a separate recovery group just for this purpose.

Good luck to you in your recovery,

Rocco

_________________________
I see recovery as a lifelong journey rather than a final destination, a journey, though, which can have many successes along the way.

WoR Alumnus - Hope Springs, OH, October 2009

My avatar is the farmhouse at the Hope Spring, OH WoR. It's a nice place.

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#294800 - 07/09/09 10:00 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2453
Loc: TEXAS
Hi dark empathy. my brother.

Welcome to another "worthless" young boy. Yep! it sure takes its toll on us. Self esteem. They surely killed our spirit.

I have never learned to communicate with others either. I do not what to do nor say in the company of others.

I am ill at ease with others. Yep! I am different, still an immature young boy in a mans skin.

Still very much that lost boy, whom has come home to big Pete.

Everyone in this web site, is worth much for me, as I wouldn't be here if it wasn't all your compassion, understanding and love. Unconditionally.

Heal well my brothers, family. friends.

little Pete & big Pete...but 1 (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#294818 - 07/10/09 12:34 AM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: petercorbett]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
Dark,

one thing, all your acomplishmenst have happened years since the abuse, these are all your achievements. These are things that you earned. Enjoy! There may be many things taken from your youth, but you have... the man who got up from that mess and moved into success and accomplishment.

All on your own, you pushed the pencil and did the work, with such beauty. Give yourself this gift, that you have a place among these intelligent people.

You have no one to prove anything to . You have shown yourself that you can hold it with the best of them. Universities are places where thinkers congregate. Youre there...

No one can see abuse on the outside. You wear it on the inside, see yourself as having something and being the person you see in your minds eye and you will head in that direction.

You... the man... are worthy. I loved the post. Nomansanisland

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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#294838 - 07/10/09 05:41 AM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
LilacLouie Offline


Registered: 07/02/09
Posts: 359
Loc: Utah
....



Edited by LilacLouie (07/12/09 04:06 AM)

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#294847 - 07/10/09 06:22 AM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Luke,

Originally Posted By: dark empathy
No, i cannot imagine a worthless boy, ---- nor yet a worthless girl for that matter. No, i don't think anyone I've met here is worthless either.

I understand both of these facts, and I accept them, ----- but i'm stil different in some way.

maybe it's because i think of myself as neither male nor female nor adult nor child, --- just me, singular and alone.

Maybe there's somethig in me which believes i'm less human than everyone else, ---- I'm not sure.

this seems to be the core of my abuse, and while there's also lots of fear and that huge desire for communication with another person on a certain level, my worthlessness seems to be what I struggle with most, ---- in fact I think the desire for communication is tied very much into my feeling of worthlessness.

I picked out this part of your reply because I think it's the heart of the matter. Can I tell you what I see in all this?

You know intellectually that when a boy is abused that speaks to the abuser's selfishness and lack of empathy; it doesn't mean the boy is worthless. Indeed, all it says about the boy is that he is defenseless - and children have a right to be defenseless and to need protection and guidance.

But emotionally you are still carrying the burden of blame for the abuse. At some level you think you are at fault, and this is exactly what so many boys do when they are hurt like this. And those feelings don't fade away just because the boy is all grown up now - look at all the guys here who still feel that somehow the abuse was their fault.

But ask yourself why the boy does this, and look at what the options are for an abused boy. There are two choices open to him: it was the abuser's fault, or it was his own fault. If the boy decides he is innocent and it was the abuser's fault, then the abuse is happening for no reason he can act on. He is helpless and the abuse is likely to go on indefinitely. And for a boy that seems to mean forever. I recall so vividly that when I was being abused I thought it would always be like this. It just didn't occur to me that math was on my side in this respect: I was 10 and the abuser was in his 50s, so it COULDN'T go on all the rest of my life. But never mind. I was a kid and this was how I thought.

The other choice is to blame himself. That isn't a very happy solution either, but at least it allows the boy to think that if he can only discover why it is he is making this happen, and then change that, the abuse will end. That is, he can tell himself that he can still make a difference; he isn't powerless and a totally helpless victim.

Which is the true solution? Obviously the first one - it's the abuser's fault. But which will the boy opt for - the second. We see this all the time, and not just where abuse is concerned. His parents divorce, a loved one dies, etc., and a kid thinks that somehow it's his fault. He has been bad, he has done something that made the disaster happen.

The problem for us as adults is that the terrible feelings we have brought with us from childhood have been there a long time and have spent years and years in our heads unchallenged. These emotional views of ourselves and the world can't be altered or dismissed just because they don't "make sense" according to what we know intellectually.

And in any case, over the years we have also erected walls around these views to protect them, as you have done with your feelings that somehow you are unique, sub-human, and so on. That kind of thinking allows you to continue believing that you alone, of all survivors, are worthless. Many guys think like that, and these too are emotional views that need to be worked on. They are very real, but they're just not true.

You are seeing the truth of this all the time. Your friends in various social situations relate to you because, in fact, you are an interesting person whom they regard as a valued friend. I know that too, since, as you will recall, you attended the Mike Lew workshop I organized. Everyone there got along just fine with you, and why not? You really are a worthwhile person, just as special and important as anyone else in the room.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#294848 - 07/10/09 06:31 AM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: LilacLouie]
Jaifian Offline


Registered: 05/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: washington state, USA

One thing that helps me is thinking about the whole idea of worth and worthlessness as applied to human beings.

To say you have value or no value is equally demeaning to yourself because it places you on a level with tools and appliances---objects which exist for the benefit of humans.

We get to thinking that we too exist for the benefit of humans and forget that we are humans ourselves. Certainly our lives are richer if we contribute to the welfare of others, but we do not exist for that purpose.

The idea of just being and experiencing life without having any purpose or value in relation to said purpose is a pretty radical idea but for me it's an oasis of sanity!

I live in a city where men are judged solely on how affluent they appear to be and so here men think of themselves as just money making appliances. It's very sad.










Edited by Jaifian (09/08/09 12:02 PM)

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#294850 - 07/10/09 08:03 AM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: Jaifian]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Hi.

If it were symply a matter of logic or of telling myself something it strikes me I'd have done it long ago.

I fully agree both about worth and value, and as I said I sincerely believe everyone has an intrinsic worth and is worthy of love and considderation, ----- except me.

Why except me? what's so different about me?
nothing! it's simply because I'm me and there's an end to it.

I've met people who value others with respect to some external property, physical attractiveness, intelligence, money making ability, and I generally reguard them as very sad, blinkered people.

However I can't even defign what is so different about me, it is simply the case that I am! worthless, ---- and irriduceably so. I have no idea how to deal with this, and am incredibly frustrated and angry with myself for not being able to.

TTo the others who've said they feel the same thing, I feel a great deal of compassion and want to say "your not worthless, ---- nobody is" and to try and releave the suffering they're in, --- but for me? certainly not!

I know I'm sounding like a stuck record, and I hate! being in this position, but it just seems I walk miles and miles on the road to dealing with this and end up no where.

I'm also fairly certain my desire for the sort of communication I want with someone, ---- a desire which burns like fire is because part of me thinks that in that form of communication I'd be forced to see I'm not worthless.

but it's like the chicken and the egg, my worthlessness stops me from believing that anyone else would want to be close to me, or able to make any steps towards that (bloody! male! sexist! first move relationship politics!), and that lack of communication makes me feel more worthless.

I hate! myself! for being this stuck!




sorry, need to step back now.


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#294896 - 07/10/09 08:22 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2590
You're not alone in your feelings about feeling like an outcast.

I feel that way all the time.

Even here I feel like I don't belong.

If you figure out how to fix it, let me know. If I figure it out, I'll let you know.


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#295230 - 07/14/09 08:35 AM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: roadrunner]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Hi Larry.

sorry, i think I must have missed your reply to this thread last week when i was reading through with my screen reader sinse I replied to Jaifian and not you.

Of the two routes you mention, ----- blaming myself or blaming my abusers, I'm really not sure which one I took.

My overwhelming feeling at the time was of powerlessness, of being caught up in a natural desaster. My abusers quite literally weren't people, they were things, ----- and there are some very dark and horrible places down that road of thinking.

Whether I got abused or not was often based on an trivial matters, ----- on one occasion for example, i remember the teacher splitting the class and leaving myself and several highly unpleasant people to "work alone in a group" at which point something very humiliating happened to me.

Did I blame myself? I'm not actually sure sinse the agencies of my abuse felt so external, ----- so completely out of my control I couldn't have any influence.

that's probably why for a long time (and even at the only counceling session I had at the age of 15), I was so angry at the school's staff, sinse I felt it was their responsability to stop this from happening, and when on the last day of school, one of the girls involved in my abuse turned round and spat on the head of year, ---- who'd told me that "Their a very nice year" and in fact completely ignored what was happening I felt a great sense of pleasure.

About the subhuman thin, i was told actively that I was worthless, deseased, etc, for several years, ----- even before the abuse started, that I wasn't like anyone else, and in truth I've never really felt as if I belonged anywhere.

I'm genuinely not sure on the blame issue, sinse it sounds like saying "did you blame yourself for the earthquake" something which was so huge and out of my control, I felt absolutely powerless to do anything with.

Your de>

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#295703 - 07/17/09 09:08 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
Jaifian Offline


Registered: 05/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: washington state, USA
Originally Posted By: dark empathy
Hi.

If it were symply a matter of logic or of telling myself something it strikes me I'd have done it long ago.

I fully agree both about worth and value, and as I said I sincerely believe everyone has an intrinsic worth and is worthy of love and considderation, ----- except me.

Why except me? what's so different about me?
nothing! it's simply because I'm me and there's an end to it.

I've met people who value others with respect to some external property, physical attractiveness, intelligence, money making ability, and I generally reguard them as very sad, blinkered people.

However I can't even defign what is so different about me, it is simply the case that I am! worthless, ---- and irriduceably so. I have no idea how to deal with this, and am incredibly frustrated and angry with myself for not being able to.

TTo the others who've said they feel the same thing, I feel a great deal of compassion and want to say "your not worthless, ---- nobody is" and to try and releave the suffering they're in, --- but for me? certainly not!

I know I'm sounding like a stuck record, and I hate! being in this position, but it just seems I walk miles and miles on the road to dealing with this and end up no where.

I'm also fairly certain my desire for the sort of communication I want with someone, ---- a desire which burns like fire is because part of me thinks that in that form of communication I'd be forced to see I'm not worthless.

but it's like the chicken and the egg, my worthlessness stops me from believing that anyone else would want to be close to me, or able to make any steps towards that (bloody! male! sexist! first move relationship politics!), and that lack of communication makes me feel more worthless.

I hate! myself! for being this stuck!




sorry, need to step back now.


Yeah, I'd be the first one to admit there's a lot of feelings that don't respond at all to logic. I dare say feelings like that are so deeply rooted in our subconscious that they are virtually unreachable except through hypnotharapy, psycho-analysis or something like that.

I also have persistent feelings of inferiority and can't always talk myself out of them.

One thing I am about to try for my nightmares is making a recording with soothing music and my own voice repeating suggestions to go to sleep to.

I'm a little skeptical, but at this point I just have to try something.

In my case, I will repeat something like "Tonight I will dream only safe dreams." but in your case you might use something like "I am a precious, valuable person."

I know it sounds like a lame idea, but you never know for sure till you try it.








Edited by Jaifian (09/08/09 12:01 PM)

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#295712 - 07/17/09 10:06 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: Jaifian]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
i have actually ot some meditation cd's which work like that which I have tried.

The problem is as soon as I get myself past the "this is stupid" end of things, I start feeling exactly what I feel when I'm complemented, ----- pain!

One sure fire way to make me cry and hurt me extremely is to give me a complement which I cannot avoid or side step (it's made meeting people after one of my singing performances very difficult indeed).

Usually I'll try and side step such things, but if I'm caught at the wrong time, or the coplement is from someone I have a profound respect for or value the opinions of, ----- then the result is pain!

In fact my 14 month long absense from alcohol (which only finished in february), began when a very artless but well meaning frend of mine said something vaguely nice about me while we were sharing a botle of champeigne one christmas and I completely lost control and started crying.

Cryticism is fine, ---- I view it as a teeching tool, and often in fact ask people for their honest opinions of things I do so that I can have an evaluation. But complements, words of encouragement, or even good evaluations from people who's opinions I respect really! hurt!


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#295716 - 07/17/09 10:26 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
Jaifian Offline


Registered: 05/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: washington state, USA
I've felt that way about complements too. It's like someone pinning a medal on your chest that you somehow know is bogus but don't know why.

Another of the wonderful gifts(sarcasm) that we can thank our abusers for.




Edited by Jaifian (09/08/09 12:02 PM)

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#295720 - 07/17/09 10:43 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: Jaifian]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Like someone pinning a medel on my chest?

Well yes in the literal sense, ----- ie, I am naked and having a pin jabbed into my chest.

It is not that I feel the complement is bogus or unmeaning, ---- in fact if I can dismiss a complement as "just being polite" or similar, then I can avoid considderable trouble.

It's that the complement feels so physically wrong! so profoundly different from the way I am inside, it builds up a sense of pressure, of force, of a deep wounding which I can't even quite explain.

it'd be like trying to swallow ahuge lump of solid, unmelting ice. it's cold, it's painful, it hurts, and you feel it push and scrape and burn all the way down your throat and into your stomach sinse it's not meant to be swallowed and forced down like that.

That's how complements are for me.


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#295885 - 07/19/09 08:45 AM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Quote:
It is not that I feel the complement is bogus or unmeaning, ---- in fact if I can dismiss a complement as "just being polite" or similar, then I can avoid considderable trouble.


Luke I hesitated to respond to this. This has been a theme ever since I have known you. You cling hideously to this view like a drowning man to a waterlogged piece of floatsom. You know deep down it is an error in your thinking and eventually will let you down as it is not reality but you desperately cling to it nevertheless. "Why does nobody recognize I am an outcast?"

Well maybe, just maybe because your not??

You are simply another human being no less wonderful, no less faulty than the next of us. This is your cacoon, this is where you live, in this fantasy of being an outcast. Maybe because it is safe, or it has been, you do not have to deal with the messy business of relationships and yet deep inside you are aching for one.

You want a quick easy fix for your delimma but the truth is relationships are messy and take time. Will you get hurt? Probably, we all do. You will not die from it though and it will not be "end of the world" stuff. It really is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved and been loved at all.

Deep down you know this but you continue to wallow here at the edge rather than reaching out and becoming part of life's great adventure.

You know you want it, that is why you keep posting about it and how threatening it all is to you etc. Bless you Luke, you are not an outcast. You are a human that has been hurt like we all have been. Push through the pain, push through the lies and begin to accept that the compliments are sincere and that you might in that persons view anyway, deserve them. Just say thank you and move on.

You will find that these fears are phantoms, ghosts of the past with no substance when confronted. Courage is the key to your particular prison. I believe in you. You can believe in yourself with practice. So practice practice practice my friend.


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#295950 - 07/19/09 08:22 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
Jaifian Offline


Registered: 05/26/09
Posts: 220
Loc: washington state, USA
Originally Posted By: dark empathy
Like someone pinning a medel on my chest?

Well yes in the literal sense, ----- ie, I am naked and having a pin jabbed into my chest.

It is not that I feel the complement is bogus or unmeaning, ---- in fact if I can dismiss a complement as "just being polite" or similar, then I can avoid considderable trouble.

It's that the complement feels so physically wrong! so profoundly different from the way I am inside, it builds up a sense of pressure, of force, of a deep wounding which I can't even quite explain.

it'd be like trying to swallow ahuge lump of solid, unmelting ice. it's cold, it's painful, it hurts, and you feel it push and scrape and burn all the way down your throat and into your stomach sinse it's not meant to be swallowed and forced down like that.

That's how complements are for me.


I think what I meant with the medal analogy is that you feel so inferior that you feel unworthy of the compliment that it feels wrong to you...like a bogus medal.

So I think we're both talking about the same thing here. Some reactions become so ingrained they take on a life of their own and become detached from their original context.

That feeling might have started out being experienced as feeling unworthy or inferior and then evolved into just being a general feeling of pain.





Edited by Jaifian (09/08/09 12:04 PM)

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#296002 - 07/20/09 12:49 AM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: Jaifian]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2024
Loc: durham, north england
Roger, I hesitated to respond to this myself sinse I wanted some time to consider it. I think you right in terms of it being a general theme and something I know which is wrong.

The problem is, I feel powerless to change this.

I've literaly ad these feelings thrust on me with no ability to change them. During my time at boarding school this was done in a subtle, unpleasant way, ---- I remember for instance the teacher talking about me in class within my hereing to a supply teacher who was going to take over for a week or so while she was on holiday, telling him that I catagorically refused to ollow rules and was incredibly unpleasant to work with, --- which was such a shame given my great intelligence which was spoiled by my manner.

then at secondary school, things got literally and unquestionably nasty.

As I've said before, i even got to like verbal insults, even when they were of the most graphic sort, ---- being told I was deseased, that I was worth shit, that I didn't belong there sinse I was deseased etc.

I always figured verbal insults were better than the physical violence or very real and literal forms of humiliation which could be enacted upon me.

My fears concerning touch and my inability to make that vital first move in a relationship is entirely based on lack of courage I agree, ---- but the essential feeling, the reason I can't kick this feeling of worthlessness which clings to me like a shadow, the reason complements hurt and I can't believe anyone could feel something for me is because I feel powerless to do anything about this, ---- just as I was powerless during all my abuse.

I think this is an interesting realization, but I've no idea where I go from here.


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#296034 - 07/20/09 02:09 AM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Bless you Luke,
My only suggestion on where to go from here would be baby steps. You did not get here overnight. It was done gradually and gradually you will have to climb back. Taking these posts to a good and I emphasize good, Therapist will help you in your climb back from this place you have been pushed into. You can do it but you will not do it alone or you would have done it already. You are an intelligent man but you have huge blind spots that a good T can help you with. Take care friend.
R


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