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#294735 - 07/09/09 11:45 AM Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast?
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1988
Loc: durham, north england
Hi.

last night I went to a reading of someone's paper in the department. I didn't particularly want to go, but i've made a promise to myself to try and get to know more people in my area, ---- and also try and enjoy the social aspects of being a post graduate student, so I went.

The paper was intreaguing, ---- about virtues in persuing metaphysics. metaphysics isn't even my area, but as everyone offered comments and cryticisms I found myself joining in, just as I always have right from being an undergraduate. I'd just see something wrong, and nknow how to argue, how to respond, ---- all in an easy, friendly manner with plenty of jokes and light humour mixed in.

suddenly, towards the end of the evening when people were planning on going off for a drink it struck me, ---- like being hit in the head with a hammer.

What was I! doing there? what right did I have to be there, to participate. what expertees did I have, what social graces.

I expected someone to turn round and say "what're you doing here?" and literally kick me out.

It was as if I got so wound up in the discussion, I almost forgot my own worthlessness, ----- then all of a sudden remembered it again in one massive rush.

Needless to say I left, but when walking home I met one chap from the discussion and said, ---- half jokingly "appologies for my rambling" and he made a joke back, --- clearly having not reguarded either me nor my contributions to the discussion as bad at all!

I wanted to start crying, to appologise, but instead I just let my skills take over, made the pleasantries and left, ---- my shadow at my heals.

Yet, there's my own worthlessness staring me in the face like a mirror held up to my eyeballs, whatever I do, inescapable.

My logic tells me I'm just carrying on nwhere my abusers left off, that I've got every right to be in the department or anywhere else, that I already have a degree and masters and am doing a phd and am just as qualified as everyone there.

but I can't follow logic! everything I do just feels pale and pathetic, simply because of the fact that it's me that's doing it.

I hate! feeling like this!

Sorry about the wrant, and about restating this same problem again, it just seems whatever I do, wherever I go, I have this shadow of worthlessness following me, contaminating everything I do from being friends to singing to academic discussion!

I hate! feeling like this!


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#294738 - 07/09/09 12:01 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
Charlie24 Offline


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 562
I have felt like this on a number of times.

Your with others and as you say you forget your problems, forget about yourself.

We are so critical of ourselves.

Can be very challenging to show love for ourselves, give ourselves compassion.

Know your not alone in this feeling.

I think as we grow as survivors it will get better.

Those feelings of emptiness, worthlessness, have plagued me well, sadly.

Just trying my best to enjoy me, I guess.

Good luck my friend. Always great posts from you.

Charlie.


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#294746 - 07/09/09 12:30 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: Charlie24]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Hi, Dark.

I am new to this site.

I too have felt this way many times so your not alone.

I have listened to the messages without evening knowing they existed to the point of never finishing a post high school education.

What I am doing is reframing my thought process.

My best to you.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#294751 - 07/09/09 01:03 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: DJsport]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1988
Loc: durham, north england
Thanks people.

As well as this overbearing worthlessness, --- which is itself pretty awful, i feel bloody frustrated! I've been doing this recovery business for 18 months now. I've been to therapy and been told all the logical reasons why I feel this way.

I know that it's the legacy of the humiliations and insults I endured as a teenager, pluss the more subtle emotional abuse I had for two years at boarding school just before then, ---- my teacher was a dead ringer for professor umbridge, even down to the cardigan and stupidly long three hours of copying punishments.

The problem is, I can't fight this feeling. To any logic I suggest I just come up with the answer "because I'm worthless" and that is that.

"Why are you worhtless?" ---- because it's me, and I am!

"Is anyone else worthless?" --- good grief no! everyone else deserves compassion, sympathy and love, and I'd be inhuman not to try my best to realize that.

"Well doesn't that including you?"

no, because I'm worthless!

"what makes you worthless?"

The fact that i am! you might just as well ask why I have dark hair, or am five foot nine, or am a tenor. It's an irriduceable, biologically ingraned fact, ---- or at least that's the way it feels, and I'm either staring that fact in the face, or destracted.

And yes, I know this is an unhelpful, stupid and utterly useless way of thinking, but I have no idea how to think differently.

"love myself?" I might as well try to love the contents of my toilet.

The only thing I do know is I won't stop trying to change this way of thinking, ---- sinse it's not in my nature to give up.

To quote a rather dramatic anime villain who somed this up very well "your tough! just like a cockroach!"


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#294759 - 07/09/09 02:49 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6865
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: dark empathy


What was I! doing there? what right did I have to be there, to participate. what expertees did I have, what social graces.

I expected someone to turn round and say "what're you doing here?" and literally kick me out.

It was as if I got so wound up in the discussion, I almost forgot my own worthlessness, ----- then all of a sudden remembered it again in one massive rush.

one chap from the discussion . . .not reguarded either me nor my contributions to the discussion as bad at all!

I wanted to start crying, to appologise, but instead I just let my skills take over, made the pleasantries and left, ----

there's my own worthlessness staring me in the face like a mirror

I'm just carrying on nwhere my abusers left off, that I've got every right to be in the department or anywhere else

but I can't follow logic! everything I do just feels pale and pathetic, simply because of the fact that it's me that's doing it.

I hate! feeling like this!


dark empathy,

I could have said the same things a number of years ago. I was so incredibly nervous with other people. I was constantly self evaluating and wondering if I was accepted. And if there was evidence that I was accepted, I wondered why.

It seems as though that is where you are today. You are obviously a wonderfully clever fellow and have done a lot despite some amazing roadblocks. It will be hard for you to accept this as the truth.

For me, I had to go through a recovery period where I "remembered" the abuse and grieved about it and then worked it through with several different professional counselors. I am beginning to accept myself and to accept that I too can function socially.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#294789 - 07/09/09 08:30 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: pufferfish]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Hi Luke,

Can you imagine any such thing as a worthless boy?

As you read over posts on the site and get to know their authors a bit better, have you ever concluded, "This is a worthless person"?

These are two questions that helped me enormously as I struggled against my own feelings of worthlessness only a few years ago.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#294792 - 07/09/09 09:12 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: roadrunner]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1988
Loc: durham, north england
Alan, I'm really happy to know you got through this sort of thing.

The problem is thus far, all the counsellers I've tried have offered me is that self same logic I mentioned earlier.

yes, I totally agree, this does not make sense, ---- but logic just doesn't seem to work on this feeling, it's so ingraned, so biological, so absolutely at the core of my being I can't get rid of it.

I'm going to try an alternative approach in cbt if I can get it sorted, --- which may or may not help.

Larry, I totally agree, in fact as an ethicist I've done untold amounts of work thinking about how to considder and take into account the worth of others.

No, i cannot imagine a worthless boy, ---- nor yet a worthless girl for that matter. No, i don't think anyone I've met here is worthless either.

I understand both of these facts, and I accept them, ----- but i'm stil different in some way.

maybe it's because i think of myself as neither male nor female nor adult nor child, --- just me, singular and alone.

Maybe there's somethig in me which believes i'm less human than everyone else, ---- I'm not sure.

this seems to be the core of my abuse, and while there's also lots of fear and that huge desire for communication with another person on a certain level, my worthlessness seems to be what I struggle with most, ---- in fact I think the desire for communication is tied very much into my feeling of worthlessness.

What frustrates me is I just don't seem to be able to crack this at all.

I don't even think I know what self isteme is.


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#294796 - 07/09/09 09:46 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
Casmir213 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 845
Loc: Northeast, USA
Luke,

I'm very glad you brought up this topic. The very fact that you can talk about it here with us means that you haven't given up the fight against that feeling of worthlessness. I can relate to your frustrations and struggles with this feeling however, as I'm very much dealing with this issue on a daily basis. If fact, the other day I had an almost palpable sense of just how much I hate myself. I've never been so conscious of this feeling before, but it must always have been lurking in my unconscious and thereby having its way with my sense of self-esteem and behavior. It was always a losing battle for me to try to build self-esteem through external accomplishments, not that I gave it much of a fight.

Although I am sorry to hear of another human struggling with this issue the way I am, and this will probably sound selfish, but it's good to know that I am not alone. Sorry how that sounds, but the way you describe how this feeling impacts your life sounds very familiar to me. If you think you are alone on this you are very much mistaken. I'm not saying this to try to make you feel better or worse, and you probably already know that there are others who feel the same way that you do. I just wanted to let you know that I very much appreciate your open and honest communication regarding this subject, as it gives me a glimpse into how the same feeling that I have (and which has impacted my life greatly) plays out in another persons life.

I feel strongly that there are many other who feel this way. Perhaps one day those who do will build there sense of value up enough to start another twelve-step group. I already have the name for it. It could be called Self-Loathers Anonymous. This isn't a joke either. I really do think there is a need for a separate recovery group just for this purpose.

Good luck to you in your recovery,

Rocco

_________________________
I see recovery as a lifelong journey rather than a final destination, a journey, though, which can have many successes along the way.

WoR Alumnus - Hope Springs, OH, October 2009

My avatar is the farmhouse at the Hope Spring, OH WoR. It's a nice place.

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#294800 - 07/09/09 10:00 PM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: dark empathy]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
Hi dark empathy. my brother.

Welcome to another "worthless" young boy. Yep! it sure takes its toll on us. Self esteem. They surely killed our spirit.

I have never learned to communicate with others either. I do not what to do nor say in the company of others.

I am ill at ease with others. Yep! I am different, still an immature young boy in a mans skin.

Still very much that lost boy, whom has come home to big Pete.

Everyone in this web site, is worth much for me, as I wouldn't be here if it wasn't all your compassion, understanding and love. Unconditionally.

Heal well my brothers, family. friends.

little Pete & big Pete...but 1 (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#294818 - 07/10/09 12:34 AM Re: Why does nobody recognize I'm an outcast? [Re: petercorbett]
nomansanisland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
Dark,

one thing, all your acomplishmenst have happened years since the abuse, these are all your achievements. These are things that you earned. Enjoy! There may be many things taken from your youth, but you have... the man who got up from that mess and moved into success and accomplishment.

All on your own, you pushed the pencil and did the work, with such beauty. Give yourself this gift, that you have a place among these intelligent people.

You have no one to prove anything to . You have shown yourself that you can hold it with the best of them. Universities are places where thinkers congregate. Youre there...

No one can see abuse on the outside. You wear it on the inside, see yourself as having something and being the person you see in your minds eye and you will head in that direction.

You... the man... are worthy. I loved the post. Nomansanisland

_________________________
" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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