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#292813 - 06/24/09 04:31 AM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: PatchworkMama]
Julia Offline


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 59
Hi. I am the someone who said that love could be a trigger. Is your husband in recovery? The man I was involved with is not. He started to have memories of his abuse and his issues were/still are, in full swing. He had started therapy and a Male Survivor group but after a short while, he stopped attending both.

We did a lot of the push and pull. He started drinking on his days off. Although a drunk is hardly reliable, it was when he would open up and talk. For instance, after I found out about (after weeks of lying and denying) another woman, we had a huge fight..... understandably. Eventually he called, he was drunk. He told me that he didn't mean to hurt me. That if he had told me the truth about her, I wouldn't see him anymore. He said that he didn't want to "feel". That he was doing me a favor by keeping me out of that mess. He told me that he knew he was pushing and pulling, but he had feelings for me and having feelings is not what he wanted.......... Yeah. What???

It has always been the same with him, even before his new memories started....... we've only been able to get so close and then he would sabotoge. Seems the more love, trust, and encouragement I gave him, the more he'd need to distance. I felt like I was John Dunbar coaxing two socks with a big old piece of beef jerky (Dances with Wolves). You know the movie? I felt he had a mental battle going on. Maybe he wanted a relationship but at the same time, because he doesn't trust, somehow, by being in a relationship with me..... it made him miserable? Or. Maybe, he was battling, not how he felt about me but, if he wanted to be alone or not, period? To be fair, I am a bit on the dramatic side. I also make HUGE DECLARATIONS of love. In the begining, maybe someone like me might attract someone who isn't sure what love is but would really like to know. But when he started spinning, I guess I can see where I may have seemed threatening to him, especially when (depending on the day) he doesn't want to feel.

After a lot of analyzing and wondering what or how he felt/feels, if he ever was "that into me"...... I've come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because he isn't ready to face what hurts and scares him. And who am I to tell him to let go of the techniques that saved him when he was a little boy? I can't fight him anymore, he made a choice to stop therapy. We all get a choice on who and how we love. I could cheat myself out of affection and respect. I could accept what little attention (by my standards) that he is willing to give. I could overlook the verbal abuse but that wouldn't be being true to myself, would it?

Patchwork, with all my heart, I hope your husband, your family..... works towards and finds, healthy and happy.

Love,
Julia


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#292817 - 06/24/09 06:42 AM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: Julia]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
Right. I naively thought that what you do for a person who has been hurt is offer him love. But it doesn't work if that person has been badly hurt by others who offered him love. Love, its intensity, and the feelings of confusion that come with it can just be too overwhelming.

And yes, in the end you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out if he loved you or not (look at the amount of participation in this thread!). But there's no way to know if he "loved" you. He uses a whole different thought process...and feeling process.

Good post, Julia.

Riz


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#292818 - 06/24/09 07:34 AM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: riz]
sweet-n-sour Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/06
Posts: 409
Loc: chicago
Yes, good post Julia and a good response riz.

I've been on the verge of some really great realizations lately. One thing that comes to mind (after losing my father this past winter) is that when we grieve, we often elevate the lost relationship to be much more than it actually was. The thing is, we go into relationships under the assumption that what we are giving is exactly what is being offered in return...that there is an equal balance to it. Of course there is a harsh reality check when we realize the push-pull thing happening with the survivor in our lives.

The best any of us can do is deal with the hands we are dealt, move forward but learn and grow from this and every experience we have.

We can make ourselves crazy by wondering "was he really that into me" when I believe the real question many should be asking, is why does it matter so much? I mean no disrespect here but why did we end up in such a relationship to begin with?

For me, this was a good opportunity to face my co-dependency issues and work through them. For others there may be other issues to visit. I'm not pretending to know any answers but I think within this complex situation we find ourselves in there are always more questions.

S-n-S

_________________________
"As long as he continues to try, I will meet him in that determination and commitment."

cm 2007

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#292851 - 06/24/09 01:54 PM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: riz]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Originally Posted By: riz
And yes, in the end you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out if he loved you or not (look at the amount of participation in this thread!). But there's no way to know if he "loved" you. He uses a whole different thought process...and feeling process.


in fact every living person filters their concept of love through their experiences, particularly those experiences of their formative years.

My wife filters hers through her experience in a home where chaos reigned and loving attention was never given. I filter mine through not only the sexual abuse events outside the home bur to a great extent a home where love and tenderness reigned one hour and physical and emotional abuse reigned the next.

Then whe we mature and marry is it any wonder we discover that we don't begin to understand one another? This thing called love takes a lot of Attention and hard work under the best of conditions and here we are struggling along as survivors.

Th positive part of it is that when and if we get it figured out our relationships have even greatr potential for success and Lon term happiness than perhaps those who have not worn our shoes?

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#292940 - 06/24/09 11:50 PM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: WalkingSouth]
PatchworkMama Offline


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 54
Loc: Iowa
Julia:
Yes my husband is in therapy. Is he in recovery? How can a man be in recovery when he is so busy filling his life with relationships and declarations of love? When he's so busy putting bandaids on everyone's problems instead of dealing with his own? Its an addiction, its an escape and it covers up the pain.

How can I tell him that it is the pain he needs to feel to be whole again. To heal? Does anyone really run to a shot when they are not damn sure its going to heal them?

SNS:
I hear ya. I have done a lot of work on healing myself and dealing with my own codependancy. In a way all of this is a blessing, a chance to finally concentrate on myself. Fix the things wrong with me. I'll be a better wife for my husband should he choose to come back, but ultimately I'll be a better person and that makes all the difference.



Its all about choices and the choice is his.

Riz:
Is love even really a part of it? The feeling of love waxes and wanes. Comes and goes depending on how well things are going. The commitment to love lasts a whole lot longer and is not dependant on feeling. Anyway, that's not an attack, just my perception of the idea.


walking south:
You said "The positive part of it is that when and if we get it figured out our relationships have even greater potential for success and long term happiness than perhaps those who have not worn our shoes?"

So true. We have to go the distance to feel the long term happiness, don't we? All of this is a chance to learn, a chance to re-examine ourselves, and approach everything with a fresh perspective.

Thank you all!


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#293014 - 06/25/09 02:05 PM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: PatchworkMama]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Hi, All.

I have been watching this thread and pondering what I would say.

I am same-sex oriented male in my mid-forties. I am more happy with myself than ever before in my life.

I took small steps in my "recovery" during the last 20 years. I was aware of the same-sex attractions before the "abuse". The abuse can cause confusion with orientation but, homophobia also has affects.

I was married in my early 20's. When my ex-wife discovered my same-sex attractions she wanted to why I had same-sex attractions. I told her about the "experiencs". She listened for a bit (1 month) but, at the end of the month I told her I needed to leave and was NOT being honest by being in the marriage. She and I both agreed that being honest was best even if there were devasting "issues" to address. She was/is a wonderful woman who wanted answers but, I could not give her the answers.

The message I had to deliver or tell her was I was NOT into her. I was wrong for involving her in a sexual relationship that I was NOT fully participating in. I was full of shame but, in all honesty I could NOT expect her to participate in the lie anymore.

I realized 4 years ago (16 years after the divorce) that I was abused. These events are separate from the desire/orientation I have. As she told me, I needed to own my entire self even my thoughts.

My beliefs is: We as adults need to fully autonomous as individuals. If there are issues as adults we are responsible to solve our own issues. We need to ask for help. Others might want to help but, no one else can live for us.

I hope sharing my experience will be informative.

I wish all of you the serenity we all deserve.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#293020 - 06/25/09 03:51 PM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: DJsport]
sweet-n-sour Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/06
Posts: 409
Loc: chicago
Dear DJsport:

My initial reaction to your post was the most respectful nod in agreement. I truly admire your strength and honesty with your wife. Living a lie is no way to live.

I'm betting that she is thankful present day for your courage as well...to divorce and move on. I personally can not imagine living the rest of my life with someone who is not really "with" me but checking out other people who are next to me. It's like going on a date with someone that you just barely like as opposed to being passionate about who you are with. A huge difference.

I've come to realize that I have been guilty of judging many of the relationships (I say many I mean on a variety of degrees...my marriage to D, relationships with my friends and my siblings) based on my perceptions of the world (..and assuming they have the same outlook) instead of realizing that we all come from a different place and are quirky because of our unique experiences.

I think once a person realizes this, the rest is much easier to comprehend. It isn't so much that "he was never that into you.." it is more so, he is looking for something that I can never be for him but also, he can never be what I need him to be to meet my needs either.

Remaining glued out of obligation or fear is no real reason to be stuck...I must ask, is it really living anyway?

S-n-S



Originally Posted By: DJsport
Hi, All.

I have been watching this thread and pondering what I would say.

I am same-sex oriented male in my mid-forties. I am more happy with myself than ever before in my life.

I took small steps in my "recovery" during the last 20 years. I was aware of the same-sex attractions before the "abuse". The abuse can cause confusion with orientation but, homophobia also has affects.

I was married in my early 20's. When my ex-wife discovered my same-sex attractions she wanted to why I had same-sex attractions. I told her about the "experiencs". She listened for a bit (1 month) but, at the end of the month I told her I needed to leave and was NOT being honest by being in the marriage. She and I both agreed that being honest was best even if there were devasting "issues" to address. She was/is a wonderful woman who wanted answers but, I could not give her the answers.

The message I had to deliver or tell her was I was NOT into her. I was wrong for involving her in a sexual relationship that I was NOT fully participating in. I was full of shame but, in all honesty I could NOT expect her to participate in the lie anymore.

I realized 4 years ago (16 years after the divorce) that I was abused. These events are separate from the desire/orientation I have. As she told me, I needed to own my entire self even my thoughts.

My beliefs is: We as adults need to fully autonomous as individuals. If there are issues as adults we are responsible to solve our own issues. We need to ask for help. Others might want to help but, no one else can live for us.

I hope sharing my experience will be informative.

I wish all of you the serenity we all deserve.

Peace,
DJ


_________________________
"As long as he continues to try, I will meet him in that determination and commitment."

cm 2007

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#293115 - 06/26/09 03:23 AM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: sweet-n-sour]
Julia Offline


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 59
Dear DJsport,

Do you think that subconsciously you wanted your wife to discover your same-sex attractions? Was it a relief for you? Had you tried telling her.... maybe hinted to it? And one more question, not that you would know, but..... do you think it's common for a homosexual man, to have homosexual biological brothers? Particularly, a sexually abused, homosexual man?

I apologize for being so blunt and intrusive. It's just that you were kind and brave enough to post in this thread...... maybe you wouldn't mind a few questions?

Love,
Julia


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#293164 - 06/26/09 11:03 AM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: Julia]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Hi, Julia.

Yes, after awhile I wanted others to know including my ex-wife of my same-sex attractions.

I was relieved when we had the "talk"

I did tell her before we were married but, she confessed after the divorce that she thought she could change me.

It is NOT common for there to be siblings who are gay in the same family but it does happen. There is confusion about sexual orientation when there is abuse for all. But, I am not a professional so, my words are from knowing others in the community personally.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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