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#29224 - 05/07/02 08:41 PM liar, liar ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
This weekend my friend and I met some nice people, respectable - professional people with two boys aged between 7 & 10 I would guess.
Today my friend, who knows my history and how I feel about SA told me that one of the boys told him that he gets his brother to "suck his dick" in the bath.
To me this stinks of some kind of adult influence, normal respectable kids of that age dont usually know about this kind of stuff, do they ?
I don't know what the hell to do. They say that out of the mouths of children comes the truth. Is he telling lies or the truth ? The consequences of both fill me with dread.
Any Ideas guys ?
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29225 - 05/07/02 09:13 PM Re: liar, liar ?
Anonymous
Unregistered


You did'nt mention whether it's the 7 or 10 year old making the allegation. I don't think the 7 year old is forcing the 10 year old to inhale his whang. If there's any whang gargling going on it's the 10 year old getting the suction. I advise calling Columbo. Do you get that tv show in England?
Columbo would have this cleared up in 60 minutes. Baretta could too,but he's busy now.


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#29226 - 05/08/02 01:23 PM Re: liar, liar ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
it's the way my thinking is going, send the posse in. Wrong or right my conscience would be clear. Last night I barely slept, and it's been on my mind all day, silence is assent.
From my limited knowledge of kids most don't have this kind of information at 10, at best they have a sketchy idea that "sex" takes place between mummy and daddy and babies are born soon after. And it also strikes me as very unusual for a 10 year old to share this information with a totally unknown adult.
A giggling whisper to his mate in the playground might be understandable.
But my suspicion is he has gained the knowledge from an adult, either by inadvertantly seeing adults chowing down, or some kind of exposure to porno. Whatever's going on my view is sort it now before the fuck up becomes too great, if it isn't already.
And as for Columbo, he might solve every crime in 45 minutes, but doesn't he strike you as a bit of a perv ? always skulking about in that dirty raincoat - a flasher at the very least I reckon, send for Steve McGarret. "Book him Danno"

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29227 - 05/08/02 07:01 PM Re: liar, liar ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I've sent the posse in, fuck it- I can't stand by and ignore it.
It had to be done.
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29228 - 05/08/02 08:14 PM Re: liar, liar ?
Anonymous
Unregistered


The cast of "Law & Order" would have this situation straightened out in no time. I think the 10 year old snuke into his parents' bedroom,used their computer to websurf porno websites. Either that or the kid got ahold of a "Tijuana bible" which was passed around my preteen schoolyard during the mid 1950s. I disrupted class repeatedly after that by yelling "SIXTY NINE" though I knew not what it meant. The teacher punished me severely.


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#29229 - 05/08/02 08:45 PM Re: liar, liar ?
Happy Birthday getteddie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 226
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
I'm very glad to hear that you sent 5 o in to check it out! You may have saved two boys years of SA and maybe lots of other kids when they get older! People are really jumping on people for maybe being Peds...it's happening around me here where I live...Some good and some bad...lots of bad for the ones falsely blamed...good for the few Peds that they catch and stop!

Eddie


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#29230 - 05/09/02 06:31 PM Re: liar, liar ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Thanks guys,
It may well be that access to porn is the key to this, it's just too easy to get hold of, and some parents have a very loose attitude as to what their kids are exposed to. And lets not pretend "cyberpatrol" and other software is immune from being bypassed by most savvy kids !!
I hate the thought that I might be subjecting some innocent family to such intense scrutiny, but if there's something going on I want it stopped and sorted- NOW. I make no apologies, what's the choice- upset some or completely screw up a few ? it's no contest.
I'm 48 and my abuse was from age 11 to 15, I'm still fucked up now, and I fear I always will be.
But in my spare time I help at a charitable therapy service for adult victim / survivors of SA, and my greatest pleasure is seeing young adults ( 16+ ) getting help, it's convinced me that help early on has so much more benefit than waiting, and making things worse while you do, until middle age. Is it the onset of a middle age crisis that makes so many of us wait until then to disclose ?
And if SA is taking place I want Andy Sipowicz and his NYPD Blues posse to round 'em up !
Thanks again.

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29231 - 05/10/02 09:11 AM Re: liar, liar ?
Spider-man Offline
Member

Registered: 04/27/02
Posts: 57
Loc: NY
Good for you Lloydy.
Considering the situation, I think sending in the posse was quite simply the right thing to do.


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#29232 - 05/10/02 10:54 AM Re: liar, liar ?
Jim C. Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 63
Loc: New Mexico
Lloydy,

I agree with Spidey. Better to get it checked out than to not get it taken care of ASAP and start dealing with the issues SA brings. I honestly hope it was just dirty talk rather than actually happening, but getting it checked out would be the best option.

Jim C.
Hisatsinom

_________________________
In all of time and space, there is but one you and one me...

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#29233 - 05/11/02 08:55 PM Re: liar, liar ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
The posse have gone in, it's a very softly-softly approach that the family won't know about. Which is cool.
I hope it's an innocent explanation.

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29234 - 06/17/02 07:34 PM Re: liar, liar ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I'm highlighting this post again to make it easier for "Concerned" to find .

But I have heard no more about these people, hopefully no news is good news.

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29235 - 06/18/02 12:06 AM Re: liar, liar ?
goflyakiteV Offline
Member

Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 66
Loc: n.a.
LLOYDY...YOU DID THE RIGHT THING! I AGREE WITH EVERYONE, YOU DID WHAT YOU HAD TO DO.

REMEMBER BRODERICK CRAWFORD AS A COP? 10-4 !!
CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE SERIES!!


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#29236 - 06/18/02 09:09 AM Re: liar, liar ?
still 12 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 167



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#29237 - 06/18/02 12:58 PM Re: liar, liar ?
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
I think you are doing the right thing by trying to investigate further...It might just be idle bragging, but you never know....I've been in such denial about my own sexual abuse i rationalized that i was just smarter than most normal kids...you see, i knew about oral sex when i was 5.....i would imagine being hercules and forcing my slaves to perform oral sex on me.....when i became an "adult", if i ever have.....i'd think about this and question how i knew about oral sex at 5 in 1963??????? i just assumed it was an indication that i was gay, although i've never had any gay sexual contact with anybody.....i guess i just wish there had been somebody like you when i was 5.....maybe i would have received the help i obviously needed....maybe i might even be some semblance of "normal" now.....to be NORMAL................michael


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#29238 - 06/18/02 04:07 PM Re: liar, liar ?
concerned Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 7
Hi Lloyd,

I am very new to this subject and also to chat rooms so let me know if I do anything wrong.

I did follow your advice and see your posting. I guess it helped me feel a little better.

The latest news is that my brother-in-law took my nephew to the doctor for a full examination and spoke with him about my so called "alligations" and, of course, the doctor said that it is quite normal for a 9 year old boy to be curious about other boys "privates" at this age. Is this true?

Now I'm being told that my brother-in-law has contacted a lawyer about suing me for slander.

He feels that I could cost him his job and his place in the military reserves. The only person I have discussed this with is my immediate family. What blows my mind is that the kid who accussed my nephew of this is the one that could cost my brother-in-law these things, but they have no intentions of speaking to this boy's family to find out why he would accuse my nephew of such things.

I have voiced my thoughts about my brother-in-law 4 or 5 times over the last 9 years and it was always just disregarded. There always seemed to be an explanation.

In a way I feel that all the anger my sister is venting towards me is maybe because there is a little guilt there. I don't know.

I'm just constantly reminded that "What if I'm wrong about my brother-in-law" Then I lose my sister and my nephews for nothing and destroy an innocent man.

Although I feel too strongly about this, but feel that I'm the only one who cares. My brother just is keeping his children awasy from their family quietly and feels that without proof or my nephew admitting to anything there is nothing we can do.

Since I have been on this site and have read some of the difficulties some guys are faced with today sexually, it reminds me of the complaints my sister has had about her husband, she felt he was perverted and was too sex crazy, she even asked if I thought he was gay. Situations she's mentioned about waking up and finding him fondling her in ways that made her uncomfortable. He has no friends that I know of, was abused physically himself, in and out of foster homes, his mother is currently running from state-to-state with her daughter because the youth services wants her removed from her care. Why wouldn't my brother-in-law try to protect her?
My sister claims I am just making these accusations because I feel that he was abused so he must be abusive. I don't think I am.

He rarely is around at a family gatherings at her house, he's always outside busy with something Conversations with him is just a few words.

My sister asked me last year if I thought he was gay, wouldn't a wife after 8 years know if her husband is gay or not....8 years ago she said she thought something strange was going on when she went to work she wanted to install video cameras (My nephew was 2yo). Unfortunately, this is all forgotten or considered "that happened years ago"

I just don't have any solid proof and that's what everyone is looking for. How do I get that?

I also confronted him myself in regards to my own children on two occassions. His stories always seem to change. Not to mention the actions of my own children concerned me when asked why they don't want to be around him. My children never admitted to anything around 3yo at the time, but lied to me about why they didn't want to go to their house. Their stories were different from his.

I know I'm not wrong in my heart, but I know this will just be swept under the rug as it has before.

I don't want to call in any outside help, because, like I said....maybe, I'm wrong.

My nephew loves his father very much and he too is now upset with me. My sister claims that if something was going on he would not want to be with his father ever. Is this true?

Or can you love an abuser and still enjoy the good times.

Thanks for letting me ramble, I hope I did not offend anyone...I'm so upset and confused, but I felt I needed to confront her. Maybe, she will open her eyes just a little bit. But, I can see now that everything will just be blamed on my crazy accusations and my putting "ideas in my nephews head"

What should I do?


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#29239 - 06/18/02 05:23 PM Re: liar, liar ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Concerned
Thanks for coming back, I hope what you see here helps in some way.
I can't answer your questions, I'm afraid none of us could. But we can offer support and some advice based on our experiences.
I don't suppose it is that unusual for kids to be curious about each others bodies at that age, I went through it for sure, and I don't count it as abuse at all.
As you say, you have no solid proof- and he's taken the boy to a doctor, so it's still "suspicion"- however founded you feel it is.
Sorry that sounds very negative, but that's the way independant authorities will probably view it.
But on the plus side, and if abuse is happening, everyone around them is aware, no matter whose side they are on, they wont forget the glimmer of suspicion. Also, the boy will probably figure out that if he is being abused, it's wrong and there are people out there who are on his side.
You're between a rock and a hard place, family life will never be the same again that's for sure.
But don't feel guilty, and be strong just incase he needs you.
Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#29240 - 06/18/02 05:28 PM Re: liar, liar ?
gords Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 7
Loc: Ontario Canada
Hey concerned
You DID do the right thing. We all must do what we can to protect the kids.
As for "loving the abuser and still enjoy the good times." My abuser was my older brother. He is nine years older than I am. He abused me for over a year when I was 8 yrs old. After it stopped I still loved him. He is my big brother. I looked up to him. He was my father figure in my life when I had no father. I kept the abuse buried for 32 years before I finally accepted that what he did was abuse. So it is possible for a young child to want to stay with their abuser.

This has stirred up so many memories for me that I am having a hard time coping right now. I have even been thinking about the big S. I don't want to but the thought is always there right now.

Don't ever think that you did wrong by getting it checked out. Better to have your brother in law hate you for protecting his son than hating yourself for not having done anything when you should have.

gords


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#29241 - 06/18/02 08:07 PM Re: liar, liar ?
concerned Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 7
Thanks to all of you for your support.

I have been looking for some reference books on the subject, but have no luck in finding a book that will help me determine if the incidences of concern should really be a concern. (I don't think such a thing exists)

Like you said, Lloyd, if the abuse is happening then everyone knows it. In fact, the way my sister is responding to my concerns this time, are making me more sure that I did the right thing. In the past she always just laughed and blew me off as being ridiculous....that was the last few times I mentioned it. This time she is really really mad and is denying things and now I found out she lied to my sister and said that the mother of the kid in the neighborhood who accused my nephew never called the cops. The mother just mentioned it in passing when the cops went to her house to remove a dead rabbit. (I thought that was animal controls job?)

Maybe, this time, she is coping with the fact that she may have some concerns of her own that she is afraid to admit.

Do you know of any websites for maybe mothers in her situation? Mothers who denied abuse for the fear of losing everything. I know that this would be a hard thing to accept and my brother-in-law will be watching his step. Even if it is going on,, I know I will have stopped it for at least a little while, until my brother-in-law is no longer under the spotlight.

You guys have been great, Thanks \:\)

I'll be back to let you know what the status is, if you guys don't mind. I'll make sure it is posted in the Family and Friends section.

Thanks again.


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#29242 - 06/19/02 08:40 AM Re: liar, liar ?
Happy Birthday getteddie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 226
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
Concerned,
There is only one way to get down to the bottom of crap like this...get a "PRO"...Find a PI who will take the case and find out what the true story is....They can look at it from the outside and if they find anything against the law...they have to report it...And they don't have to say who hired them!!!!!!!!

Eddie


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#29243 - 06/19/02 10:09 PM Re: liar, liar ?
concerned Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 7
I looked into that about a year ago, but unfortunately, I am a single mother and can't afford it right now. I also believe that he doesn't have any kind of record, because he is in the military and I understand they do background checks every 6 mths. I think he is too smart to leave any trail. Although, is there some place I can search to see if he was ever even accused of the same thing. I know that he was engaged before to a woman who also had a small boy (coincidence, maybe), but I wish there was a way I could find her to speak with her. But, now that they are not speaking to me, how could I possibly find out her name or his SS# at the very least, to even start investigating his past. He also spent some time in a mental facility when he was 18...my sister found this out when she left him for a few days a few years ago. How could that not show up on a military record?

Thanks, for the suggestion though. Any other ideas, guys?


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#29244 - 06/20/02 07:30 PM Re: liar, liar ?
concerned Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 7
Hi Guys, it's me concerned....I hope I'm not interupting, what you guys are going through, and I feel bad about it, I am just concerned that my nephew doesn't have to join this site 10 years from not, but I need to know your thoughts on this problem with my nephew. My sister keeps emailing nasty emails to me about how ridiculous an accusation I'm making, in one email she asked if I thought it was ridiculous for my nephew to take a shower with his step-father because they were in a hurry. At age 9 does this seem strange to you? I have two small boys that I am raising myself. I have recently told them they can't come into the bathroom with me they are getting too old. Am I sick???? Or is this normal for a 9yo boy?


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#29245 - 06/20/02 08:03 PM Re: liar, liar ?
Cement Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 740
Loc: Southern California
It is not appropriate for a 9 year old to shower with his stepfather, period.

I have known my stepson for over four years, he is eight. I may be hypersensitive, but I do not think it is appropriate for me to interact with him when he is nude, let alone when he and I are both nude! I am not even a blood relative, for God's sake!

I believe school age is past the age when even parents and children should be nude together, alone and in private (in America, at least, where we are ALL sexualized to some degree by the media).

_________________________
And let the darkness fear our light.

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#29246 - 06/20/02 08:32 PM Re: liar, liar ?
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
One of the things my father did to me was forced everyone to take showers together (and that was the one shower a week that I was allowed to take . just before church on Sundays). Supposedly it saved water and time and to that I say BULL Fkin SH**! I get a little animated on this subject because I was subjected to it all through my life.

For me even when I was 14 years old, I was still required to take showers with my father. Ok, if you understand that at 14, puberty is usually hitting and yeeeshhh,, this was beyond sick! My father would either make me shower with him or I had to always wash his back or whatever when he was taking a bath. Don't know why it was just me, but I hated it... it still sickens me to this day thinking about it.

By 9 years old, a kid should be able to take a shower on their own. Saving time,,, saving water,, whatever the excuse... I just don't buy it. I may be a little biased but I don't buy it!

Don

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