Newest Members
jeremywickers, JScott12, TMatti2, DaiseyLady, uvagrad4
12501 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
innocence (60), pablo999 (53)
Who's Online
4 registered (Obi, TJ jeff, 2 invisible), 21 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12501 Members
74 Forums
64185 Topics
447891 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#291398 - 06/13/09 09:53 AM Obama's doing it again.........
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Here we go!

U.S. pledges $73 million in aid to Zimbabwe
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/06/13/us.zimbabwe/index.html

Oh, GREAT. Now we're borrowing money from the Chinese and Japanese and Arabs and giving it away to a country that we're starting to emulate. Zimbabwe has an estimated annual inflation rate of 89.7 SEXTILLION in 2008 because they're criminally irresponsible in the printing of their own currency. Oh, and while our great friend of the West, Robert Mugabe, rules a country with a 94% unemployment rate and a rampant cholera epidemic which is directly tied to their fiscal policy, he has birthday parties which includes 2,000 bottles of champagne (Mot & Chandon or 61 Bollinger preferred); 8,000 lobsters; 100kg of prawns; 4,000 portions of caviar; 8,000 boxes of Ferrero Rocher chocolates; 3,000 ducks!!!

THIS IS CHANGE?


Top
#291403 - 06/13/09 11:04 AM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: Hauser]
HurtinginMD Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 74
Loc: Cranston, RI
Hmmmmm... all i can say is told ya....buyers remorse is the worse kind

_________________________
I want always to be a boy and have fun... (Peter Pan)

Top
#291405 - 06/13/09 11:20 AM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: HurtinginMD]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11183
Loc: Denver, CO
I have several charges I could lay against Robert Mugabe. The man is rotten to the core. But for Obama to pledge our tax dollars to this petty despot in Africa is nothing short of criminal. We are already in hock to the tune of trillions. The people of Zimbabwe need to stand up for themselves, arrest Mugabe and his henchmen, and deal harshly with them in the public square for all the wrongs they have done against the people of Zimbabwe.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
#291414 - 06/13/09 01:22 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: FormerTexan]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
We give many Billions in foreign aid all over the world. What is worse, $73 Million to Zimbabwe or $40 Billion per year to Israel? For the most part Israel is a viable State on its own without any of our aid. Perhaps if we give some of our spare foreign aid change to Zimbabwe some percentage of their population won't starve. Does anyone know how much aid we have given to Iraq or Afghanistan? Or how much we have given to the Arab States with lots of oil to sell? Trust me, what we give to Zimbabwe, the former white-ruled Rhodesia, is a drop in the foreign aid bucket. Yes, the leadership is corrupt. We seem to have an affinity for corrupt foreign leaders over time. Remember the Shah of Iran or the Marcos family in the Philippines? They were both highly corrupt and we gave each of them 100 times as much as we're giving Mugabe. Maybe through our aid we can hasten economic reform there. Maybe even create some new markets for some of our products. And yes, as has always been the case in the past, enrich a corrupt dictator in the process too!!!

I can't blame this on Obama exclusively, because enriching corrupt foreign dictators is a tradition of ours with a long, rich, and colorful history.

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



Top
#291428 - 06/13/09 02:58 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: Trucker51]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
What a heartbreak. cry Have you seen the news pictures of the teems of hungry women and children in a country with 97% unemployment? Rape of women and children is commonplace. Much of the population just sits around and waits for some kind of dole.

I saw on the interview of Zimbabwe's new president Tsvangirai on the News Hour. He holds a tenuous post as president after almost 30 years of rule by the corrupt Mugabe. Because of the corruption and abuse from the system, the new president is just holding on by his fingernails.

I know it doesn't seem right to us, but $73 million is the cost of several military tanks or half of a fighter jet.

The following is a quote from the Washington Post:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/06/12/obama_pledges_73_million_to_zi.html?hpid=sec-politics

"Tsvangirai became prime minister in February as part of a power-sharing deal with Mugabe, who had ruled Zimbabwe for 29 years. The arrangement was a bitter compromise struck after Tsvangirai outpolled Mugabe in presidential elections last year, but the president was unwilling to cede power."

I spent two years as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Liberia. It was a heartbreak to pour our efforts into that country and then see it burned by a civil war a few years later. The school where I taught was burned to the ground. The biggest problem there, as in Zimbabwe, is corruption. Liberia presently has a good and forward-looking president. It is money well spent in Liberia to try to help those people. A few dollars there can help a large number of people. The average annual income in Liberia when I was there was $30 per year. Even though some of our support money might be siphoned off by some corrupt interests it is still worth it.

Allen

pufferfish whistle




Top
#291562 - 06/14/09 01:27 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: pufferfish]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2453
Loc: TEXAS
Hi,

Yep! A billion here and a billion there. Or a million here and a million there. And pretty soon were talking about real money. Real money that the USA doesn't have.

But for the life of me I just cannot understand why we have to give it to various countries to get them to like us.

Hungry women & children. Rape of women and children. Courrption?
Hell it's right here in our own country. Detroit? Boston? Washington? Dallas? we can go on and on. But who cares??

Oh yes, I take offense when we start to say for the cost of a tank or a fighter jet, we could do this or that with that money.

But let me tell you that without that tank, or fighter jet. We damn sure wouldn't be free. Nor the freedom beacon for the world that we seem to be.

My take.

Heal well my brothers/friends,

Pete (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


Top
#291802 - 06/16/09 12:10 AM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: petercorbett]
cstjude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
Interesting posts.

But from the outside looking in (that is, from Canada), I have to say that these types of moves on President Obama's part (I can have no opinion on this one specifically) seem to indicate a shift in US foreign policy; a shift that seems to be realigning the US with the idea of a global community.

As for the notion that more guns and tanks or fighter jets makes a country more free, I can't agree with that. Albert Einstein said you cannot simultaneously prepare for war and peace. How does arming the nation to the teeth preserve freedom? I'm not judging, I really want to know the rationale for that assertion. Because it seems to me like more of the rhetoric that lead the US to abandon its moral authority and integrity on the world stage over the last 8 years. I do not see the US as as a beacon of freedom at the moment. But I would applaud any course of action that saw the US advocate for a more peaceful world abroad. No offence meant, honestly. I'm only offering a perspective from the nation next door that shares this continent with our brothers and sisters in the US.

C.

_________________________
C.
Female, Friends & Family Forum Fan

Top
#291876 - 06/16/09 12:54 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: cstjude]
cstjude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
...and Mexico.

C.

_________________________
C.
Female, Friends & Family Forum Fan

Top
#291877 - 06/16/09 01:04 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: cstjude]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Jude,

Makes you wonder where our ecomony would be now if we had used some of the money and brain power we spent saving the world. To saving our nation most likely we would not have the mess we now find ourselves.

Alan,

How about the 100,000,000,000 they want for the IMB. That is packaged with the war funding.

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

Top
#291880 - 06/16/09 01:14 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: cstjude]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Quote:
a shift that seems to be realigning the US with the idea of a global community


i have to say i look at things that way too. it's obvious in light of the global effects from the recent [or current] currency flow problem plaguing the entire world financial infrasystem that we are clearly not the island we want to believe ourselves to be. we think because we are american citizens that we have some control over what is threatening to impact our way of life. we are one piece in the whole puzzle and the problem is so much larger than the sum of its parts. our spending habits are voting for us, and the vehicle was careening out of control long before january 2009.

i'm just glad we are no longer being 'guided' by a steering committee that is sneaky, deceptive and managing finances unwisely.

1 out of 3 ain't so bad, and the '1' still remains to be seen; call me in about 5 years or better still, 10 years, after sarah palin has her whack at it in 2012.

perish the thought! confused

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#291881 - 06/16/09 01:16 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: cstjude]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: cstjude
Albert Einstein said you cannot simultaneously prepare for war and peace.


Albert Einstein was a physicist, not a political scientist.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#291892 - 06/16/09 02:01 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: melliferal]
cstjude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
Albert Einstein was a genius. And an eloquent commentator on many, many aspects of the human condition and our place in the universe.

I'll take his moral authority, insights, and advice over most poiltical scientists' any day. smile

C.

_________________________
C.
Female, Friends & Family Forum Fan

Top
#291895 - 06/16/09 02:08 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: michael banks]
cstjude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
Hi Michael,

You and I often wind up respectfully on opposite sides of a debate. smile But I always learn a great deal from you. So, I hope you know I ask this without any objective other than to understand the idea being expressed. Whe you say that the US has expended money "saving the world", what do you mean?

C.

_________________________
C.
Female, Friends & Family Forum Fan

Top
#291912 - 06/16/09 04:09 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: cstjude]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Jude,

Americans have very much an attitude and belief in "manifest destiny" since almost the birth of this nation. And this outlook very much affects how we see and react to the world. I can still remember being taught this in school. This belief I believe was reinforced by the events of WWI & WWII. And because of this we see ourselves and our actions to be to the benefit of the whole world.

Mike


_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

Top
#291919 - 06/16/09 05:05 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: michael banks]
cstjude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
Thanks. But the US didn't enter WWI until 1917 (a year before it ended) and didn't enter WWII until 1942 after Pearl Harbour (almost three years in). That is not to say that the sacrifices American troops and families made in those horrific conflicts weren't important. And many would argue that the US intervention was the tipping point for the battles in Europe and certainly the decisive catalyst for the end of the War in the Pacific at the end of WWII that opened up the atomic age. It is interesting that the classroom lessons you recall are a conduit for that kind of rhetoric. It is still alive and well, as you say, and I notice it whenever I visit your wonderfully dynamic, energetic country. But would you agree that today there is a disconnect between the kind of optimism generated by a young, revolutionary country (the "birth of this nation")223 years ago and an increasingly interconnected global community that doesn't subscribe necessarily to that view? Just musing. Thanks for the reply!

C.

_________________________
C.
Female, Friends & Family Forum Fan

Top
#291921 - 06/16/09 05:18 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: cstjude]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Jude,

But in our humble opinion we were the catalyst for swing in the tide of victory in both World Wars. Especially in the second.
The world is changing and the U.S. may need to adjusted it's view as well.

I hope we do.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

Top
#291924 - 06/16/09 05:41 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: michael banks]
cstjude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
I hope we all do.
For all our sakes.

C.

PS: Would love to debate the "catalyst" argument with you. smile But that is best left to another time and thread.

_________________________
C.
Female, Friends & Family Forum Fan

Top
#291929 - 06/16/09 05:58 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: michael banks]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
My family growing up once hosted a British foreign exchange student from Nottingham, England, and for a time in my life I have had both British and Australian roommates. And all of them have just been amazed at the theory that America won WWII. It is true that our European and Russian allies suffered many more casualties than we did. In fact, just Russia's casualties were more than 10 times our casualties in the entire war. And without Russia on our side, there is no possible way short of atomic bombs that only the western allies could have defeated Germany. It is kind of funny when we talk about D-Day we only mention Omaha and Utah beaches, when Gold, Juno, and Sword beaches were as much a part of D-Day if not moreso. Now the Market Garden operation was mainly Monty's fault, though it was a bit of an ambitious plan and several critical facets of it went immediately wrong. It could also be argued that a critical component of our European war effort was in Lend-Lease, whereby we produced the weaponry then essentially sold it overseas. Remember the P-39 Aircobra fighter? Ninety percent of what we produced of that antiquated fighter was sold to the Russians, and they paid us in full for our contributions for their war effort ahead of our western allies too.

Yes, the victory in the Pacific was a much larger percentage our doing, with our war industries cranking-out hundreds of major ships and tens of thousands of aircraft during the war. While Japan tried very hard to keep up, and managed to complete more than several aircraft carriers and even a few aircraft-carrier/submarines toward the end of the war, their loss was most likely due to the loss of their cargo shipping which greatly restricted their access to raw materials and oil. Just like Germany, Japan had a critical shortage of fuel that could only be resolved by supply from afar. Certainly the bombing attacks by the B-29s hastened the Japanese loss, but their biggest problem was their lack of fuel and raw materials, followed by an increasing lack of seaborne transport capacity as the war wore on. Another issue that finally sunk Japan was the fact that we tried really hard to rescue our downed experienced pilots while Japan thought of their deaths as a glorious way to die for the Emporor, leaving them few experienced pilots toward the end of the war. This discrepancy became apparent in the Battle of the Philippine Sea, when their aircraft losses were more than 20 times our aircraft losses, and they lost 4 aircraft carriers to our losses of no major ships. Japan's huge losses at the Battle of Leyte Gulf came about because they had almost no air power left to protect them from the onslaught of ours from 6 Essex-class aircraft carriers and their experienced pilots. Certainly several of our destroyer crews fought valiantly there too. Japan lost 15 major capital ships of heavy cruiser size or larger in the combined battle at Leyte Gulf, including 4 of their last aircraft carriers and 3 battleships, to our loss of two escort carriers, one light carrier (Princeton), and several destroyers. After that the Japanese naval mission was mainly limited to hauling raw materials or ferrying troops, except for a couple of suicide missions that failed miserably.

So my guess is that we acquired our help or free the world beliefs mainly from somewhat slanted propaganda here at home, driven by our military accomplishments mainly in the Pacific. Our history about the European theater is decidedly slanted toward our sacrifices while overlooking the fact that the greatest personal sacrifices by far in the ETO were those experienced by our European allies and by Russia and her people. Our contribution in Europe was certainly helpful, but certainly not the deciding factor in terms of human cost.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



Top
#291944 - 06/16/09 08:11 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: Trucker51]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
melliferal? Are you suggesting that only formally schooled people are educated?


Top
#291952 - 06/16/09 08:37 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: Hauser]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Quote:
melliferal? Are you suggesting that only formally schooled people are educated?


alan, you're just makin up stuff now....c'mon bro LOL sorry i could'nt resist ........ whistle

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#291953 - 06/16/09 08:38 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: cstjude]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: cstjude
Albert Einstein was a genius. And an eloquent commentator on many, many aspects of the human condition and our place in the universe.

I'll take his moral authority, insights, and advice over most poiltical scientists' any day. smile

C.


I wouldn't. I don't think he knew anything about politics - at least, no more than any of us. I agree that he was pretty smart (even though he's been proven wrong by a few discoveries since his death, like quantum mechanics) but being really awesome at, say, cooking doesn't make you an expert at auto body repair. Two completely different subjects. I'm not sure why Einstein's achievements in physics have convinced anybody that he's a credible authority on anything else, but the whole 'Einstein said it, so it must be sage advice' thing is one of my pet peeves. It's like saying 'Hitler did X", where the implication is that "X" is something bad because Hitler did it. Well, Hitler also ate food; that doesn't make eating food bad.

Besides, half the quotes people pick up on the internet as being attributed to Einstein are misattributed anyway. As a beekeeper, when discussing a recent die-off of honey bees around the world, I was faced with an Einstein quote often - something along the lines of "If the honey bee were to vanish from the earth, the human race would become extinct within 2 (or however many) years." Firstly, Einstein never actually said anything like that, and secondly - even if he did, it's simply wrong.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#291954 - 06/16/09 08:42 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: Hauser]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: Hauser
melliferal? Are you suggesting that only formally schooled people are educated?



No sir, not at all. Only that something said by Einstein about anything other than physics is no more likely to be true that something said by any one of us.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#291957 - 06/16/09 08:50 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: Hauser]
didi Offline


Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 165
Loc: USA
Hello All!

I talked with a soldier today who just got back from Iraq.

He told me that most of the soldiers are not happy with our

new president.

In addition to how they feel as soldiers, he also expressed his

personal opinion. He said " Obama thinks that he is God" If I

want to eat at McDonalds, I do not need a TAX on my burger

because the government feels that it is "not good for me"


He told me to take a look at these sites....

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.politics/2008-10/msg03412.html

http://msplaceddemocrat.com/http:/msplaceddemocrat.com/soldier-doubts-obama-eligibility/

_________________________
Raising children who have been loaned to us for a brief moment outranks every other responsibility!

Top
#291961 - 06/16/09 09:26 PM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: melliferal]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
well....... i don't know if i'd go THAT far....... that's almost like saying anyone who does not have a formal degree in music is unworthy of being called a musician, and we all know that not true. why do we canonize certain personas as being 'ordained' [ excuse me, you have not been awarded a nobel peace prize, then shut the hell up!] and others who have not paid the piper are somehow disqualified as 'less than'?

what's really going on under the surface of that conversation is a lot of value judgment. yes, i can attest to the fact that elitism is what is driving those 'less than' to strive to be ' equal to' but what the hell is it accomplishing beyond causing us to spend spend spend more and more of our hard earned currency just to measure 'up' to some competitive benchmark standard.

ok, yea, i forgot for a moment.... it's all about survival of the fittest.... i think i'll shut up now, and yield to those who pander to the more worthy brainiacs whose opinions hold the power to just keep driving us closer and closer to the oblivion of culture shock.

.......now where was i......who knows....who cares.....?

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#292048 - 06/17/09 09:11 AM Re: Obama's doing it again......... [Re: melliferal]
cstjude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 302
Loc: Canada
I don't think that I defer to Albert Einstein on matters of the human experience out of route. I defer to an acknowledged and immense intellect who had a robust set of interests and spent a good deal of time thinking about ideas and the human condition. Einstein was just the one example I recalled at the moment. But I could easily have been deferrential to say, Galileo or Malcolm X, or Mother Theresa, Jesus, Elizabeth I of England, or - for that matter - my great grandmother who was a wise, kind, illiterate and a supreme success at being a human being. But you wouldn't have access to her public utterances or her published ideas. Sometimes using familiar references helps establish common ground when expressing oneself to strangers.

Quoting someone familiar in a context such as this forum allows the reader (who doesn't know me from Eve) to 1) look up what I've said to verify the context; and 2)rebut with authoritative information.

Coming back to me with "Einstein was a physicist not a political scientist" is not an argument against the point I was making that it is self-defeating and futile for any nation to say it is working towards peace while stockpiling nuclear or conventional weapons.

Einstein actually put his political views into action and advanced the notion that a supernational authority be created for the regulation of nuclear weapons (he and Bertrand Russell et al thought this up). Einstein realized his work was political, how could he not?

Scientific advances are ultimately political perhaps nowhere more so than in the US. Think about the recent debate on stem-cell research. Regardless of where any of us come down on the issue, it is clearly a political minefield.

C.

_________________________
C.
Female, Friends & Family Forum Fan

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.