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#291138 - 06/10/09 11:04 PM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: Julia]
michael banks Offline


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
Julia.

You go girl. nice to see the growth you have achieved.

Mike

_________________________
To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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#291176 - 06/11/09 07:48 AM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: michael banks]
riz Offline


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 123
I haven't said anything, but I've been reading this thread every day. It amazes me that I could have made every one of those different posts on different days, depending on how I felt, what had happened, what I'd just finished reading...how much the thoughts and emotions fluctuate so that I begin to wonder if there is a real, solid person underneath all of it.

I like your last comment, Julia, how we end up with the same characteristics and defenses as the men, how I can get good and angy and cold to make sure I never get hurt...all the while knowing that underneath, my heart is open and bleeding and dying to get cut again by love.

I feel I've come so far. And then I feel I've not progressed at all.

love,
Riz


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#291601 - 06/14/09 08:04 PM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: Julia]
Julia Offline


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 59
Originally Posted By: michael banks
Julia,

If you know that you can not help him.
Why are you idly standing by and watching him self-destruct?
Do you still have a little glimmer of hope of what might could be?
Is that why you still talk to him?
Still allow him to cross your boundaries and giving him false (or real) hope.
How come you have not changed your phone #?
Be very careful that you do not allow yourself to be drawn in and get destroyed by him also.
Because it is oblivous that he has not yet hit his bottom.
Sexual addiction is a issue for alot of survivors, if not most.
I know that it has been for me.

Please take care of yourself.

Mike


Mike,

You gave me this advice, over 4 months ago. Survivor's who attempt helping us must see this happen often. I hope men like you and John (walkingsouth) don't get discouraged and stop giving advice because someone like me, who was lucky enough to stumble onto this website, didn't realize the gift she'd been given. I wish I would have taken your advice.

A person can go their whole life wondering if they ever make a difference in this world. I can tell you that everytime I come here to read and learn, when I see your name, I remember the help and the guidence you offered me. Although, at the time I didn't fully get what you were trying to tell me..... after going through it, it's crystal clear now. Maybe you don't realize how much you are appreciated. Everytime you respond to a post, going through what you have and knowing what you do, you make a difference to every person that you unselfishly reach out to. I want to sincerely thank you.

Love,
Julia


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#291605 - 06/14/09 08:32 PM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: Julia]
Julia Offline


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 59
Riz,

Not long ago I read a post of yours. You were responding to a woman who wondered if her husband had ever really loved her. I walked away having hope after reading what you wrote. We all have choices and I am choosing to believe...... for as much as he could, he loved me. In the middle of all the crazy, it is hard to believe that he even LIKED me, not alone LOVE me!

In retrospect, some of the things he said to me were so over-the-top, I doubt he could have truly meant them. He would be so ugly to me... and then apologize and try to make nice. I'd ask him if he wanted to be alone and he would say no. Then we'd be back to peas and carrots, and before long..... we'd be face to face with our next major meltdown.

He told me he hated me several times. At the end he asked me if I hated him. I told him no, that there was nothing I could say or do that could hurt him more than he hurts himself. I told him that the people he's hurt, will cry and hurt for awhile but, we eventually move on to love others. I told him he would always be left behind to hurt alone, if he didn't do something about it.

I have learned that a body, only has what's inside themselves to give. He has so much confusion...... anger and hatred, it was all he had to give to me. I do believe that there was a time he did love me. Your right, I didn't imagine it.

Love,
Julia


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#291758 - 06/15/09 08:06 PM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: Julia]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Wow, I haven't been here for months and this is one of the first threads I read. Ladies...you're right, all of you. The relationships you are/were in were loving and wonderful at times but in the end, if the man in your life is broken and lacking the tools to make repairs, then it's impossible for the relationship not to rust and fall apart. Many men are not cable of love, or even intense like because of their childhoods, those men will tear you apart. Most of them would not do it intentionally, but observation of life, doesn't mean you are able to properly live it. Saying and doing the "right thing" just because you've seen it in a movie isn't a sustainable thing. Sooner or later, if the feelings aren't allowed to breathe, the wrong things will be done and the woman or man who had the misfortune to fall in love will be hurt.

If the man in your life is abusive, with his words or actions; if he makes you feel like less of a woman, less of a person, because of what he's done, then leaving is the only right action to take. It hurts like hell, but it's right for you and it's not your fault in any way shape or form. You would not be friends with someone who was toxic to you, why would you invite a toxic person into the most important parts of you? If two people can't mesh their way of life and core values with one another then it will NOT work. For those of you who have left such a toxic relationship and still hold your heads high I applaud you because I know that the decision to leave was one of the hardest of your life. I'd be willing to bet that nearly every man who has had the courage to come and post here understands that and sees his own past relationships with a clarity they may wish they didn't have. For as difficult as this thread is (I don't find it angry at all!) I'm confident that lots of the men and women here will be grateful they read it, although maybe not right away. The truest words are sometimes the hards to hear.

Now, Pollyanna will speak......I've been in a relationship with a survivor for almost 8 years. The first 4 were a disaster, but I didn't know it until I was 4 years in. I almost walked away, but circumstances didn't allow that. Things have not been easy since then and we've definately hit some bumps (please note the dripping sarcasm!) but he's been in therapy on a sometimes weekly, sometimes bi-monthly basis ever since. He's been given the out by me and his T to stop but knows full well that for as painful as it is, it's the only way through.

He still tells me he can't feel with the intensity I do, for anything, not just me; he still tells me he's afraid; he still tells me he thinks he's meant to be alone. The difference, I think, is that while he tells me these things, he also tells me he doesn't WANT them. He will always be different from me in the way he approaches life, he'll always be wary of strangers and friends alike, he'll always think things and see things that I won't, but he doesn't WANT to. He wants peace; he wants love; he wants easy laughter; he wants a life free of nightmares and he's fighting for that with everything he's got.

This site got me through the worst time of my life. I still come here occasionally to read and take solace in knowing that it's here, many friends are here too. Julia, thank you for starting a great thread and thanks to everyone who contributed with wisdom and compassion on a very difficult and tender subject.

Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#292024 - 06/17/09 04:16 AM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: Trish4850]
Julia Offline


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 59

Dear Trish,


Had wondered where you were. I enjoy reading what you have to say because, I believe you are the flip side of the coin (least in me and my boyfriend's case). You don't sound "Pollyanna" at all. The paragraph above, the one where your boyfriend explains how he feels, is inspiring. Not only for the women/men who love men who were SA, but also for the SA men who are looking for hope and inspiration.

Hell, maybe it is Pollyanna-ish but, who cares?....... I've always loved a story with a happy ending!

Love,
Julia


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#292689 - 06/23/09 12:57 AM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: Julia]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Well, I haven't been here for a very long time now, and I just thought I'd peek at F&F to see what's going on.

I don't know what to say except that it all makes me sad. In case some of you don't know me, I've been married to a survivor for nearly 17 yrs now, but didn't know it until about 2006. I've been through hell with betrayals, etc., my own counseling, antidepressants, and incessant reading on the topic. Also we have a child.

What makes me sad, I think, the most is that I now know, though my own counseling, that I've never felt valued, my whole life, starting with my own family. Intentional or not, there was abuse, physical and mental, but mostly mental. Constant invalidation, etc. I was raised learning that I didn't deserve much. And this is why I am still with my H.

I do believe I love him, but I'm not sure why at times. I mean, when you think about it, or write down the reasons, there aren't many after what he's put me through. My emotional world is so detached from reality, I'm afraid sometimes.

I went off my antidepressant about a month ago, cold turkey. I konw you're not supposed to, but it's a financial issue too. I had some nausea, etc., for a while, but really don't feel much different.

I'm sad because I don't think I will ever be able to change my internal belief that I don't deserve to be cherished, loved, respected, pampered, etc. So I ask myself, who does deserve all that, and why? That's where I get stuck. I truly don't know the answer. I only know what I believe about myself, and vaguely that I believe it because I was taught it, not necessarily because it is true, but that's about as far as I get.

I'm sad that I can't seem to change my thinking about myself. If I could, maybe a new life is waiting out there for me. But maybe this much is different: At least nowadays I'm sad for ME and not just for my survivor.

So can anyone tell me what is next? Has anyone here gotten to the point of feeling sad for themselves after perhaps realizing why they're in a one-way relationship to begin with, and then gone on to yet more changes because of such insights?

What would it have been like to have been raised by attentive, loving, compassionate, concerned parents, and to have developed a strong self-esteem and feeling of safety because of it? I can only imagine it would feel like heaven to have gotten to live so long in such a state.

I envy happy people; I envy loved people who can believe and feel that love.

Sigh.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#292719 - 06/23/09 09:49 AM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: Brokenhearted]
sweet-n-sour Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/06
Posts: 409
Loc: chicago
Dear Brokenhearted:

Hi. I was just wondering (depending on where you live and how much sunlight you have year round) if you have thought to have your vitamin D level checked? Sometimes a vitamin deficiency as such can have more of an impact than we realize.

My physician was ready to write a>


Edited by sweet-n-sour (06/23/09 09:51 AM)
_________________________
"As long as he continues to try, I will meet him in that determination and commitment."

cm 2007

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#292726 - 06/23/09 11:19 AM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: sweet-n-sour]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
S-n-S,

Hmm, thanks -- I never knew that a vitamin def. could cause one such troubles. I do take a vitamin every night, but maybe I will try taking, in addition to it, extra Vit. D. I might make an appt for my dr also........money is just so darn tight right now. (We are trying to pay off an astronomical amount of credit card debt and it may take 2-3 yrs).

I've lately been trying to figure things out, like about why it feels so good to shop, even though we can't afford it. I recently heard a shrink put it this way, "We think this way: If I were financially secure, I would go shopping. Therefore, if I go shopping, I must be financially secure."

All my life I've been insecure and that includes financially (my parents had large debts and they shared their stress with us kids).

Anyway, I really appreciate your suggestion.....

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#292744 - 06/23/09 01:43 PM Re: Maybe, he was NEVER that into you. [Re: Brokenhearted]
PatchworkMama Offline


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 54
Loc: Iowa
Wow.

Okay I admit it. I saw this thread in the F&F and because of the title was afraid to read. I didn't want to hear that perhaps my husband was 'NEVER that into me.' I wanted to avoid what may be the truth. I wanted to hang onto hope.

Nhere I sit wondering if my husband will ever be 'straight' with me. Hoping, praying that he will. And on the other hand knowing if he does want to be 'straight' with me it may even be harder than the alternative.

What you wrote, all of you, it hit home. I know exactly what you are feeling and it is amazing that even though we have different survivors for husbands, different kinds of abuse, different families, many of us have the same experience. Ditto to all you said.

I never thought I may be hurting him or preventing him from traveling down of recovery by being there for him, loving him, pulling him out of nightmares, getting him back into bed after a night terror. I think it is interesting that someone said that your love and patience might even be triggering for him. Wow. Scarey.

Oh man its going to be a difficult 10 days. Especially with 4 kids, a house and a job to hold down.


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