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#28691 - 05/02/02 02:40 PM Question regarding announced Catholic policy
Jim C. Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 63
Loc: New Mexico
Guys,

Last night our local news reported that the two dioceses (sp?) in our state were going to "root out gay priests so that there would not be any more pedophilia." The thought apparently is that gay priests are the problem.

I may be confused, but my main perp identified as heterosexual (he told me I was homosexual and wanted him). The perps of the others in my support group also self-identified as heterosexual. I personally identify as bisexual and have no inclination to abuse younger people, nor did any of the gay friends I had in college. Pedophilia in my understanding is a separate issue from homosexuality or bisexuality.

A study sponsored by the New York State Educational System stated that over 90% of child sexual abusers in education identified as straight. So where does the church get by "rooting out" homosexual priests it will stop pedophilia?

I don't get this...Is this just me that has a problem with this?

Just asking,
Jim C.
Hisatsinom

[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: Jim C. ]

_________________________
In all of time and space, there is but one you and one me...

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#28692 - 05/02/02 06:54 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Jim. Glad to see I'm not the only one who's picked up on that. You might want to email the Orange County Blade http://www.metrog.com/headline/blade/blade.html
and ask why they're silent on the issue. Can you imagine if headlines read "Heterosexual molests little girl"? I'm heterosexual. I'd scream bloody murder. What does being heterosexual have to do with fucking kids?. The proper terms for these dirtbags are pedophile and boylover. I warned the Los Angelese Diocese not to play the "Well they're homos so fucking children comes naturally to them" thing. Ya wonder who's running the show at the church headquarters. They're idiots. The mainstream gay & bi media had better start talking about this subject or there will be repercussions.


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#28693 - 05/02/02 07:19 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
JimC,
Do you have a link to the article by chance. I would like to check it out. This religious institution has gone way off the deep end. If you have anything online, I would really love to have the source so I could post it on my site.

Thanks
Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#28694 - 05/02/02 08:03 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
getteddie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 226
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
Jim,
This is crap..all of the older boys and men that raped me said that they were straight and that I was gay and needed it!!! The church is running scared and trying to cover it's ass...and they better because the world has a big fist waiting for it!

Eddie


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#28695 - 05/03/02 11:52 AM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
Jim C. Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 63
Loc: New Mexico
Tinfoil, MrDon, getteddie,

Thanks for replying. There was no link provided on the newscast and I don't see it mentioned on the channel's webpage. In discussing this with my social-work professor last night, he agreed that "pedophilia in self-identified homosexuals is practically unheard of" (Personal communication, May 2, 2002).

As a former Roman Catholic and seminarian, I believe the church and the heirarchy who have always preached 'against homosexuality as a sin' think (believe?) by adding this they will prove their point about homosexuality.

If they started to eliminate all the proests who self-identified as heterosexual there would be a loud uproar. The public, however, tends to believe that homoesexuality is a perversion so they may fall prey to the idea that since most of these reports are about men and boys (ahem, when I was an altar boy there were only altar boys-making them spend much more 'alone' time with the priest--I knew one priest who'd strip before getting into his vestments and thought nothing of it. Hell we were all 'guys' anyway-right?) I think some priests like prisoners in jail (referring to situational homosexuality)-act out with whomever is available--those priests will be the most difficult to 'root out.' When the situation changes and an adult female is available they may not re-perpetrate.

I also believe that there are genuine pedophiles in the priesthood. Some priests never seem to grow out of the stage of believing every word as literal and faith as absolute. They are stuck in perpetual adolescence or younger and they seek companionship with those most like them mentally. These are the most dangerous, no matter what 'assignment' they are given they will seek out youth to abuse (in their own word probably 'love'...I prefer to be real here.) If they are not serving in a parish setting, then they will seek out the children of people who trust them implicitly. Offer to take them on road trips or camping or swimming with them to condition them to where they want. These 'priests' ( I hate even referring to them as that "soul-rapists" might be a better term)-actual pedophiles or situational pedophiliacs (an adaption of the term used for prison homosexuality), destroy not only the body, sexuality, future relationships, and body image of the victim/survivor, but a person's sense of God and his or her own spirituality.

The zero tolerance law--i.e. one investigated occurance and you are defrocked--means that there has to be a sexually abusive incident before the priest is removed. Isn't that too late? What if all priests went through counseling for the enitre time they are in seminary? Not with another priest but with a mental healt professional. Maybe then they could-zero in on them before they are ordained and eliminate the need for any more abuse to take place!

I don't know, I want to prevent others from going through what we went through. I could suggest castration at ordination, but that does even castration does not prevent sexual abuse entirely. Salt Peter perhaps as part of the daily diet in mega doses? Any other suggestions?

Just Angry and Frustrated,
Jim C.
Hisatsinom

[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: Jim C. ]

_________________________
In all of time and space, there is but one you and one me...

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#28696 - 05/03/02 04:29 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
Doug Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 1
Loc: Michigan
The proposed RC policy is based (I believe) on the following:
1. Over 80% of the cases currently under investigation involve Priests sexually exploiting adolescents, not pre-pubescent children. This takes it out of the scope of pedophilia, since such requires that the victim possess no secondary sexual characteristics. If you need a word for it, it's "pederasty".
2. In a replicated survey of male, college-educated subjects who identified themselves as homosexual, slightly less than 30% stated that, while an adult, they had sexual intercourse of some kind, with a pubescent adolescent under the legal age of consent.

So, from an administrative point of view, while homosexuality itself has no direct correlation with pedophilia, it certainly does present an increased risk of sexual exploitation of minors. I believe this is why such a policy is under consideration.

-- Doug


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#28697 - 05/03/02 06:28 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
getteddie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 226
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
This makes the catholic church look totaly uncool...to try to dump all this crap on the gay priest...why don't they have PI's check out every priest and weed out the peds...they will still be there after the gay priest are gone...sounds like jews getting worked over during WW2! But this is something in the news about male SA...kind a bad start... but a start...hope that the whole thing is exposed...everywhere!!!! LOL

Eddie


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#28698 - 05/03/02 06:47 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
The Church Leadership is messed up for sure. I was 8 years old, just made my first communion and signed up for Altar Boy Service, and my perp was 26 when he first started abusing me. Who knows (or fucking cares)if he was gay, straight, bi, a whore or Satan. The fact remains that he was a pedophile, was never caught, was sent to other parishes, allowed to abuse others, was finally caught, sent to treatment, and released from his vows to the priesthood. He could not keep his vow of celibacy, let alone keep himself from touching children inappropriately. I am glad he is still alive and living in my community, because now I will show him my rage, anger and the consequences of his behavior. The Lord will also show him further consequences of the behavior. I like to believe that Jesus has a special place for individuals who hurt his little children. It's called Hell. It's the same place that I imagine our Lord will consider placing those who aided, abetted and covered up this behavior. Pray for peace and healing, survivors need it, victims need it, Church leaders and perps need it. (my perp can never touch my soul, it is mine and my Lord's, and I like to think that Jesus gets pretty pissed off when someone tries to break or hurt something that is His.) That felt good. Thanks for listening.... \:D

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#28699 - 05/03/02 07:09 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
Anonymous
Unregistered


My opinion is the thing's equal between homosexuals & heterosexuals. There's a certain percentage of men who get off on sex with underage kids whether the kids be male or female. The vast majority of men won't touch a 12 year old. First of all because it's a for-sure bust. San Quentin Quail my generation called it. Fuck a kid,go to jail.
Secondly,what kind of relationship can you have with a kid? So you have sex and it's great. Then what? Maybe discuss the attributes of bubble gum vs candy bars or the newest video game? Introduce the kid to your friends at the yacht club or golf course as "my squeeze"? After which your former pals hang your ass from the nearest flagpole.


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#28700 - 05/03/02 07:56 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
And the Catholic Church leadership is forgetting one very important point. Child abuse and molestation is not about sex. It is about control of a perp over a victim. Sex is just the weapon... I don't mean to over simplify anything but it really makes me angry when I hear the church trying to find ways to justify these horrors that they are inflicting. To me, unless they come out against these practices they are no better than NAMBL, Satan or a child molestor! YOu are either for child molesting and abuse or your are against it! I get a little wound up on this subject, especially when it comes to religion.!

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#28701 - 05/03/02 09:53 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
all abuse is bad, and moving a priest to another parish is extreamly stupid, but that is what was done. I hope the church starts to deal with the problem as well as the rest of the planet. Abuse happens everyday, and people from all different backgrounds abuse others. We all need to speak up and let other know it is not ok to hurt someone sexually, emotionally or phyiscally.

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#28702 - 05/04/02 08:57 AM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
Douglas Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 4
Tinfoil, do you have anything to back up your assertions or, are you just venting without any real concern for the truth?

Lord knows, I appreciate the rage inherent in our common situation..but what you've posted amounts to nothing more than a bigoted, uninformed rant.

Douglas


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#28703 - 05/04/02 06:35 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
Anonymous
Unregistered


You're right. That's why I deleted it. Fretted about the post all last night. I do believ though that when the question's asked "How could this happen?",result will be a questioning of organized religion. There's a lot more going on here than Catholic priests raping 6 year old boys in the confessional. We've had the Jerry Falwells,Pat Robertsons,faith healer tv preachers,the World Trade Towers attack,homicide bombers and now priest assfucking children in the Name of God. Well hello? Is anyone awake out there? The common thread running thru this are men posing as self-appointed conduits to invisable dieties in the sky. Oh like their shit smells like roses? Fuck'em one & all. Whoever willingly gives blind trust & faith to these quacks should'nt bitch when their kids get fucked. The kids ar'nt responsible. Their parents are.


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#28704 - 05/04/02 11:45 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
I disagree, Tinfoil, it's not always the parents to blame. The perps are always wholly responsible, and those who had knowledge and looked away are equally responsible. I told my Mom about my abuse when I was off my ass drunk...she believed me...went to the priest the next day, bitched him out, threatened him to within an inch of of his life...he was transferred to another parish shortly thereafter. My mom and I were completely ignored by the church leadership
. My mom did her best to keep me safe, she trusted this priest, she trusted my neighbor and my neighbor's son. How can you hold a parent responsible for not being there always, all the time, night and day? I wanted my own space and independence.

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#28705 - 05/05/02 12:20 AM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well there's not much that can be done about it,unfortunately. Boils down to history. This thing goes back to the dawning of humanity when we began walking upright,distinguishing our species from the other apes. One of our peoples recognized that the other proto-humans were fearful of natural consequences and posed himself as the Knower of All. He was able to convince the others of his tribe that he alone had some inside connection with the Powers That Be that controlled nature. He could make the rains,sun,winds,etc come on time or not so. He thru his intimate closeness with invisable powers made the stars come out at night,the sun rise in the morning. This thing spread. Pretty soon there was a group,a cult of these dipshits. At first they demanded little. Did'nt take long before they began demanding a lot. The rest is as they say,history. Had religion not had that long history and it were invented today we'd all view the true belivers as mentally ill. The whole thing's a scam. It continues because there's a genetic predisposition within humanity towards psychosis. It is not normal to believ in ghosts & goblins. If there's a God let Him make a six-pack of beer appear before me.


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#28706 - 05/05/02 10:40 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
Existentialism for this new age...everyone exists only for my pleasure and in my imagination right? When I leave the room everyone ceases to exist in there anyway...

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#28707 - 05/06/02 12:50 AM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
Anonymous
Unregistered


Actually,that's true. Think Enron Corp. We're all just dust in the wind. It's a fallacy that anyone cares about us. What we think,what we are,our existence mean nothing. Maybe our mommas care about us. If we're lucky. No-one else does. It's a rough fucking gawdamn World out there full of practiced predators. It's kill or be killed. Don't think so? Ask that cop who frequents this site. If you chance across a decent man or woman,grab ahold. It's a rarity.


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#28708 - 05/09/02 01:33 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
liminal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/21/02
Posts: 40
Loc: Detroit Metro
To paraphrase my favorite philsopher, whatever comfort you get out of ANY belief system- religion, existentialism, marxism, - know that it is an illusion because they automatically certify their own falseness by claiming to have all the answers.

We all know this, but the church wanting to root out gay priests is incredibly naive - on one hand ignorant of the complex nature of sexual abuse and on the other going on an irrelevant witch hunt that is based on idiotic assumptions. At best it's lip sevice to a public with no history or imagination, at worst it's proof that we have to go farther than the enlightenment and romantics in overcoming the dark ages.

How can the kill or be killed model apply when the most difficult choice for SA victims is whether or not to commit suicide and for everyone else who to marry and what car to buy?

Incidentally, Darwin was interested in the evolutionary movement of promoting love, he postulated four stages in the evolution of what he called the moral sense. "The first was when animals developed social instincts that would bind together closely related individuals. The second was evolution of greater intellect. The third came with the acquisition of language. And the fourth, Darwin believed, was reached when certain habits could come to mold the conduct of individuals." Also, biologists have in greater numbers come to the conclusions that looking at nature, there are spectacular examples of partnership, symbiosis, that coexist with the need to "kill or be killed"

For us, the real choice is this: produce or consume, partnership or domination. The largest political and social movement in the world right now is a shift towards partnership relations to ourselves, other humans, and the planet. If "history" doesn't follow it's rational course with a chorus of nuclear explosions, or a huge base of believing consumers from whose image factory none of us will escape, then all we will be able to do in our lifetimes is set one cornerstone in a foundation for a better future.


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#28709 - 05/09/02 02:40 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
getteddie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 226
Loc: Cub Hill, Md
I completly agree with liminal....whether or not to commit suicide...I still can't decide!!!

Eddie


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#28710 - 05/10/02 11:02 AM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
Jim C. Offline
Member

Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 63
Loc: New Mexico
Liminal,

This was a great post. I agree with you point by point. Thank you for showing how innane and naive the thought behind this really is!

Jim C.

_________________________
In all of time and space, there is but one you and one me...

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#28711 - 05/10/02 03:07 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
I agree with Getteddue re suicide. most of the time I want to, but I do know, my life really sucks. bosishere


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#28712 - 05/10/02 03:12 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
sorry guys, the foregoing post just shows how fucked up things are - I wanted to type -- Getteddie instead of the error I made. sorry bosishere


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#28713 - 05/10/02 06:32 PM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
Anonymous
Unregistered


Not to worry,bosishere. Phonetics works just fine. Especially at places like NOMSV. Lots of emotional stuff going on here. And some boozing,too. Saying "I feal awful" rather than "I feel awful" gets the message across and that's all anyone should care about. Mispelling (or is that 'miss-spelling'?) does'nt indicate ignorance. I know a guy who's spelling is perfect all the time. Never misses a word. He's an asshole. He's barely got enough brains to wipe his ass. Don't let it bother you.


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#28714 - 05/11/02 11:03 AM Re: Question regarding announced Catholic policy
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Tinfoil, thanks for your comments. Bosishere


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