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#286488 - 05/06/09 03:54 PM sexual dysfunction.
kinghenri Offline


Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 214
Loc: Tucson Arizona
I was molested by a family friend for years starting at age 4. It wasnt violent but it was sick. He gained my trust as a child and i physically enjoyed it and wanted to please him. I was duped into falling in love with him. My mom was clueless and my dad was a withdrawn coward. Noone was there to see it or help me. I hated myself for it yet began masturbating to homosexual pornography. Now at age 20 i have fallen in love with a beautiful woman who really loves me. Ive told her everything and she has told me about sexual abuse in her childhood. Weve made good love before but a lot of times I cant get it up or i think im not attracted to her. Its like sometimes im attracted and sometimes im not. I think im gay sometimes but i know it was just conditioning. Im asking for advice for someone who has succesfully overcome their same sex conditioning and sexual dysfunction

_________________________
"In my life, I have seen,
People walk into the sea,
Just to find memories,
Plagued by constant misery,
Their eyes cast down,
Fixed upon the ground,
Their eyes cast down

I'll keep my eyes fixed on the sun"

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#286491 - 05/06/09 04:22 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: kinghenri]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
kinghenri, first of all welcome to MS.

it seems you have already determined on your own that your same sex attractions are a result of conditioning. perhaps it may help you to understand yourself better with the aid of a trained professional in the field of sexual identity confusion. they can help you be more objective about your own narrative. not to say the conclusions you have reached are false, just to add that another perspective may bring you to greater enlightenment and resolution.

i remember the times when i met girls in my life who seemed to 'like me'. i was not so interested in them because i liked them, but moreso because they liked me. and so i felt a responsibility to reciprocate. i always, and in all things, yielded to the 'should' factor.

later on i realized that that was important to me, because in relating to them, i was engaging in a metaphorical relationship with my mother, who i was terribly disappointed in that she could not give me the attention i needed. so having relationships with females was a way for me to re-establish that primary relationship for which i was starved. when our relationships would begin, the effects of suffering the suppression of unrequited mother love was so strong, it came bursting forth, and all my attachment needs were unknowlingly thought to be love. to be certain they felt overpowering, and i had never known the feeling of loving or being loved before, so any feeling that i had that felt good became love for me.

that's what i took 'falling in love' to mean. it's the same feeling that i had for my perp brother, who initiated me into the delights of sex, who unleashed in me the most powerful kinesthetic experience i had ever known up to that point. that felt like love to me, a young 12 year old. my brain would never be the same after that crucial moment of imprinting.

i needed love, and i would pursue it and take it from whoever would evoke the echos of those feelings in me.

keep writing; others here will share their own experiences and perspectives with you, but this is something that should not be figured out on your own.

hoping for all the best for you in your healing and recovery,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#286494 - 05/06/09 05:21 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: Sans Logos]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
I understand the confusion as well.

I was married for 5 years and divorced 19 years ago. I have adult children. I was in an 8 year male relationship that broke up 2 years ago. I was a mess for awhile.

When I came to accept my own desires as me then I found peace. I have to be gentle with myself daily.

Keep talking,

Peace,

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#286614 - 05/07/09 02:08 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: DJsport]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
KH, I'm only two years older than you, and I've been all over this issue of confusion. My therapist wasn't at all shocked or surprised when I told her about it either. Another one told me "I think it's probably a very natural thing for you to have this kind of question at this point in your life given your past". In some ways the fact that we're looking into it now is a blessing. Instead of burying it or hiding it for years and sacrificing what could be years of potential happiness, we're proactively taking back control of ourselves, away from whatever ideas our perps implanted in our heads, or that we put there to try and make sense of it, or to defend ourselves from that pain.



I go through periods where my sexual interest waxes and wanes. If I feel affirmed in my heterosexuality and I haven't run into anything that makes me feel I should go back and question it, as frequently happens on these discussion forums, I feel great. On the other hand, when things that make me open the chapter on sexuality come back into focus, I loose my mind. I force myself to think about gay situations or gay relationships. I force myself into thinking about them positively, like I would enjoy them. After having done this for years and never once feeling happy from it, you would think I could close the book, but there's always something that opens it up again.


Another issue I have is that I too have always had a difficult time with women. Shortly after my abuse ended, about 3 or 4 years, my parents got divorced. My mother was ill and largely unavailable to talk to, and my Dad had moved out and was also hard to get a hold of. I responded by running away and doing whatever I could to distance myself from what happened. As a result I minimized the divorce, just as I minimized my molestation. My sister on the other hand when bonkers and my mother and I were subject to verbally explosive tirades that I don't think you could call anything but verbal abuse, to the point where she almost talked me into comitting suicide.


So I don't know if that's a factor, I feel it could be for me, that because I was so hurt by that I distance myself from women for fear that they will emotionally harm me. Perhaps that's part of why I try to talk myself into thinking I'm gay, but that doesn't bring me any answers or any relief at all.


Then just today from reading Sans' answer, I had another huge anxiety swell up. There have certainly been girls I have hooked up with in the past because they expressed interest in me and I felt I should just go with it. There have been girls I've hooked up with because I haven't necessarily been interested, but they were there and why not. There have also been girls who have approached me that I've found myself wanting to be with. This situation doesn't happen to me with other men. Yet after reading what Sans wrote, I immediately imposed his situation and his thought process and answer onto myself. Once again, I suppose it's something to think about, but it's like a mental nuclear bomb to my brain after just going through some intense EMDR yesterday.


There is a lot of good advice on here and a lot of good resources in all the people who post here. But the bottom line is that you have to do what feels right to you and fits you at the end of the day. Although we can help and offer advice and tips we've learned in our own individual journeys through all this, very few of us here are professionals, and perhaps more importantly, NONE of us are the exact same as the rest. All I can say is that after what you went through as a child, confusion isn't unheard of. I see my own experiences that cause me confusion as acting out. When I look at it with the information I know, it fits acting out to a T. In order to put ourselves in control of what happened to us, we make up situations in our minds, we might watch gay porn, or we might act out with other men. The difference is that when we take the initiative, we are taking control of the situation. In that sense, gay porn or thoughts might not have been sexual for you, they might have been ways for you to try and master that fear or anxiety. I certainly feel that was a large part of it for me. I know since I started therapy a lot of those thoughts and fantasies have disappeared, and they only come back in time of high stress or anxiety. This to me indicates that they are not true core desires of mine, but again, that is only my own personal view of what happened personally to me. Also, I never had same sex crushes. Admiration, sure, I was a loner and I would have loved to be just like Joe Cool. But I didn't want to run off with Joe Cool and get married somewhere or anything like that. Of course after my abuse I didn't feel like that about many girls either. I've still never been in love. That's another big question. Maybe I have been and numbed it out, minimized it, or downplayed it. Who knows.


Basically at this point my view is that through the EMDR, I am wiping my slate clean and giving myself a second chance. Whatever happens happens. The most important thing though is to listen to yourself and don't just think with your head, but feel what your body does in reaction to certain ideas. You hold your own answers. Don't feel like you have to force or push anything onto yourself if you're not comfortable with it at the time. Sometimes we just need time to let ourselves be and not worry about all this. Good luck.



Edited by AndyS87 (05/07/09 02:10 PM)

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#366815 - 07/28/11 12:34 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: AndyS87]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
Sans Logo, I wouldnt be so quick to Tell Henri that his "self prescribing" Heterosexual orientation with homosexual imprinting may be presumptious. He KNOWS what he likes and KNOWS what his SSA feels like. Sexuality after abuse is a VERY delicate subject. STRAIGHT men CAN be convinced they are gay and simply re-enact the abuse over and over..sometimes even feeling emotional connections with other men especially if the abuse was earlier then age 8 and the perp was close to the survivor or used "groominng' or "love". If your abused at 13 or 14 you know if your gay or straight. I believe if your abused younger then 10 years old and you can be stimulated and turned on by BOTH sexes, its ideal to either drop labels completly or consider yourself bisexual and chose which sex you would like to be with.Sexuality is fluid and is NOT genetically pre determined. Besides all of us on here have been sexually abused..its not like we were an "average" boy struggling with sexuality. We had no choice back then...but we do have a choice now. Take a look at this unbelievable article on imprinting

http://books.google.com/books?id=rHOBboiATRQC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=sexual+imprinting+and+sexual+abuse&source=bl&ots=kmTqBK5vhG&sig=XMDhcRc10UyXmRWxajfD1bKjniA&hl=en&ei=DEcqTsScJ-rN0AGwgqX_Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=sexual%20imprinting%20and%20sexual%20abuse&f=false

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#366980 - 07/30/11 07:00 AM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: thefutureorbust]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Freshwound...

your statement
Originally Posted By: freshwound
If your abused at 13 or 14 you know if your gay or straight.
is actually wrong. A dude with your hard dick in his hand saying, "check it out, you're gay" can be pretty convincing.

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#366982 - 07/30/11 08:15 AM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: sono]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
Your right I'm sorry. Everyone has there own subjective experiences.

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#367052 - 07/31/11 09:31 AM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: thefutureorbust]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
freshwound,

I felt like adding that actually in my experience I've encountered adult sexual assault survivors who've later had reason to doubt their orientation. Sex is powerful and unwanted sex is even more powerful. The thoughts and feelings which are put into one's head during these experiences are, as you know, uh complex!

For what it's worth, I found a direct correlation between my understanding of what really happened to me and the receding of intrusive thoughts.

Oh and I guess I should tell you that the poster who you addressed earlier in the thread as being a bit premature with his proclamations was quite famous for that in his day...i.e. don't you don't need to heed or be concerned about that...LOL

One curious outcome of SA seems to be that we can see how relatively easily one (or sepcifically a child) can be sexual, but separating that from orientation isn't necessarily so easy. In my darkest hours of questioning what the shit in my head was, I decided that the more important answer lay not in with whom I could imagine getting off, but rather with whom (or which gender) I wanted to cozy up to at night. I think the answer to that question should guide you and is something to hold on to gents.

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#367058 - 07/31/11 12:02 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: sono]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
I am seeing how much personal subjective experience comes into play with sa. My abuse was twofold. My father sexually abused me and at the same time I associated the abuse to bonding, love, closeness and trust. My mother severly verbally and emotionally abused me. So my perceptions on men and women are screwed up. I am almost complete sexually and intellectually attracted to women and emotionally drawn to men. But I have has close loving relationships with women before. Being newly single though I have no desire to emotionally bond with a woman right now. I believe with all my abuse coming out I have sever issues with women I need to get over. And begin to have close non sexual relationships with men. I am seeking that close loving relationship that was imprinted on me during my abuse at 6 years old. Btw that was basically the only time my father and I were close. The rest of my life he was a cold judgmental asshole. So the "who do you want to cuddle up to at night" analogy is tough to say. When I was with my wife we were emotionally close but co dependnt

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#367064 - 07/31/11 02:22 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: thefutureorbust]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Codependency is a common leitmotiv running through survivor relationships
I'd say. It sux turning or trying to turn your partner into your abusers.

I would suggest that while you and many of us felt loved in those abuse experiences, it really important to continually acknowledge that that was bullshit and a lie. It wasn't love we felt from those abusers freshwound, it was a smokescreen to enable their continued molestations. Richard Hoffman writes about the absurdity of using the word pedo-phile...as that would mean someone who loved children. We were not loved, we were used. I think really learning that fact clears up a lot of things. But oh man does it take time!! lol

_________________________
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the perp

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#367066 - 07/31/11 02:28 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: sono]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Oh and indeed your larger issue may indeed come from the less invasive assaults from your mother. When the supposed bad guy is nicest when he's being the worst, and the natural protector Mother is deficient...well, that sux. It's easier got take something you don't like from someone who reminds of someone being nice, i.e. Ur father perhaps than something you do like from someone who reminds you of mother, I.e. A woman. Just thinking out loud.

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the family
the perp

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#367068 - 07/31/11 03:07 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: sono]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
yeah man, its HARD when your abuser is your father though and when your 6. That first imprint is hard to shake. I havent ruled out bisexual as an orientation. But my abuse is tangled so badly into my sexuality its all blended and confusing. Personally, I dont believe a GAY man can have unbelievable sex with girls. He can try but it will be "ok" or "acceptable". Ive spoken to many gay guys who have been with girls sexually and most say "eh I tried but didnt like it". The ones who said they did like it are quick to point out they believe in the kinsely scale and believe they fall between gay and bi.

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#367080 - 07/31/11 05:37 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: thefutureorbust]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
As you are in a "what's next?" phase, I wish you well with that. As you move through it, be sensitive to what your mind and heart are telling you today...difficult when there's so much confusing yesterday mixed to our experiences.

I've heard the same words used as you when gay guys describe their hetero experiences. Does that leas you to some conclusions or thoughts about yourself? Im just posing the question rhetorically to you, don't feel compelled to reply in the thread, but of course you're welcome to continue. It's complex stuff to try and work out.

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the family
the perp

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#367086 - 07/31/11 06:11 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: sono]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
I have nothing to hide in the thread. I believe for me the best thing is to try and ditch labels. I cant look in the mirror and say "im gay" knowing I have had unbelievable sex with women before, dream about girls, and fantsize about them. I just cant ignore all that. But there is a difference between having unbelivable in the moment sex and having sex to prove your not gay. Ive done both and the latter isnt that good lol My father wasnt my only perp. I believe my brother also abused me. But he also SEVERLY emotionally abused me emasculating me every chance he had. Funny I told my therapist that some of the best sex I have had with women in the past was when I percieved myself a lesbian. I didnt want intercourse, but wanted us touching, kissing and pefrorming oral sex on each other. I literally felt like a girl. I know thats tied into me beging ashamed of being a man. I got many fucked up messages at home of what a REAL man is. From the Therapists Ive been to and doing about 5 months of research on the issue, I believe sexuality is fluid. I can openly admit I am attracted to men, but is that attraction something deeper? am I looking for that deep connection I had with my dad when I was 6? I have tried HARD to look at bisexual porn and watching the two guys go at it was not a turn on. Am I holding back? who knows...I know I have no desire to live a straight or gay "lifestyle". I need to be ok with being ME and trying as hard as I can to ditch labels.

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#367094 - 07/31/11 07:26 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: thefutureorbust]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Hey FW, this is fascinating as I haven't been on site in ages, but cane to check out news from the recent Canada WoR and saw that first post to which I felt the need to comment, lol, and am right back in the groove of things when I was active here.

So if I may ask, where is the problem exactly? Or am I wrong in that there isn't essentially a problem? You seem to be pretty clear about your likes and dislikes. You know sometimes I feel like it's also a matter of knowing a thing which can be so difficult to accept. We know things other straight guys (or if you dont like labels, guys who like girls) who aren't abused don't know...that can be so hard to wrap your head around.

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#367096 - 07/31/11 07:47 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: sono]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
The problem is my inability to accept it wasn't my fault, that there is more then gay or straight, that sexuality is fluid, that the things I've felt and said in the past doesn't dictate who I am today. I read too much I think lol I have masculinity issues I need to get over

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#367097 - 07/31/11 07:51 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: thefutureorbust]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
And I still fall into the habit of trying to prove I still like girls. Causes me to act out with them. When I was married I always had to initiate sex and be in control. I enjoyed fore play more then sex always. 50 percent of the time intercourse was enjoyable and 50 percent it was not.

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#367114 - 07/31/11 10:57 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: thefutureorbust]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
Not that one can't work on trying to internalize several concepts at once, but
Indeed getting your head around the first one you cited, that it wasn't your fault, is the one from which the others will come. A false sense of complicity is our biggest hurdle.

_________________________
the family
the perp

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#367115 - 07/31/11 11:01 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: sono]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
Thanks man. Your right. I need to truly deeply believe it wasn't my fault. Very hard.

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#367201 - 08/01/11 10:53 PM Re: sexual dysfunction. [Re: thefutureorbust]
sono Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1069
FW,

If there need be any more proof of how fucked up CSA is, the fact you as a rational, educated man can actually need to learn that you are not at fault is proof enough. Add to that that every man here must learn the same lesson is simply astounding I think. Good luck man! Seriously though, don't underestimate how central that is to everything you're talking about in ways I can't even begin to describe. Guilt feeds so many negative thoughts and feelings.

_________________________
the family
the perp

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