Growing up I was often forced to go to church every Sunday. I never really understood any of it. It was always this need to please my mother, make my mother happy according to here. I was often shuffled to these events and I think in part I wanted to go for the social aspect of the church events but never understood why. Since leaving home I've been to a local church a few times. I've found the best part is that I'm forced to be still and just sit there and mediate, be calm. I don't always listen to what is being said. Now more than ever I don't feel I need it for the social aspect or maybe I do, according to my father. I often feel as though I'm on the fence about a God or higher power. I just don't know. I think about this life and our world and the misery we live in. The misery of my past that in so many ways holds me back. I'm so emotionally concrete. I just don't know how to unlock myself. I'd like to think that there is a better place after we die but who knows? There isn't really any proof now is there? I think in a way that scares me so much that I have to believe in something that can't be touch, heard, seen, spoken to. I want to believe but I don't know what is holding me back? I don't know how to speak to God? I don't know what I want from God? Maybe that is the problem? I hear about how I need to turn my life over to God? Give him all my problems, let him handle everything for me? When a family member dies I wonder about where they are now? Does Heaven really exist? Is there any way to get some proof, existence?

Charlie.

Charlie
Thank you for your honesty..May I tell you that every Christan i know has went through, what you are with God...I have been a Christan for more then 40 years.. I have ask the same questions..
I ask my Pastor one time ...What if all of this is a lie?..He told me what have you to lose if it is a wonderful clean life...But if it is true and you dont follow Jesus then look at what you will lose......Either you believe the Bible is the word of God or you dont....God never needs us to defend or prove him...
I just accept him and see what he has done in my life....Im sure if you think about it you can see God in your life...

God Bless
Gary

Charlie, WOW!!!

I am going to venture the guess that everyone has thought about that question. To me...( just me now...) i am going to say that all my questions were ending up at whether I had the faith to belive in things unseen...I did and I do...

And after all that, i still wonder, what if...

and you know....

I like the side that believes that all things are for the good of us all even if we dont understand the bigger picture. I do not propose to understand the Masters plan, just that whatever it is , I will be where I am supposed to be...just believin"...

God Bless...
Nomansanisland

Charlie,
I understand what you mean by concrete. My one hope is this:
If the Christ being both divine and now flesh could have authority in Heaven and on Earth then He would do things that could only be done by God in man. And if this man has God in Him then what has He said of me? But that He loves me and desires to give life abundantly, healing, peace, love and joy. A new mind, a new heart and His everlasting presence that He offers through a relationship with me; knowing me. And I, who don't feel loveable, beautiful, redeemable am amazed that He could love me and make me a son of His Father, adopted in. But I see no malice or fault in Him, no gain or angle He can work. It is to my benefit that He offers and this the imbalanced offer is so unbelievably in my favor that I believe. And that is my hope, the extreme Grace of His offer.

Now to see all unfold in me... this is the journey.

no

yes

Allen

pufferfish

Allen,

I totally agree.

Mike

Charlie,

Take the short route to answering all of these questions - simply ask God to reveal Himself - Herself - Itself to you in a personal and private manner that only you can understand, and then forget about it.

When the time is right, and when you least expect it, it will happen for you. You'll be amazed.

Romans 1:19,20

because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

For me, I can't look at a flower, the stars, the mountains ... and think that this all "just happened".

M

.

intelligent design, macrocosms, microcosms....whatever you wanna call 'it', beyond all appearances, our god is an awesome god. yet, how all dichotomies can arise and exist at once is beyond fathoming and will ever remain a mystery to us mere mortals. try as we may, we'll never understand the heights and depths of the mysteries of god, but we can know god through relationship. in the parallels of the physical to the spiritual senses we can, and indeed have seen, heard, and tasted the palpable goodness and sweetness of god. for me, beyond that, nothing else is needed.

Amen.

Allen

pufferfish

there was a point when I absolutely believed in God.

At the age of 7 I lost the sight of my right eye. some days later, I sat down in the hospital chapel and had a sort of experience i couldn't explain, an experience of something both beyond the world and intimately connected with it, an experience of a presence which was not myself, was infinite (or at least felt that way), and yet incredibly personally with me at that point.

I'd heard about God having parents who were Christian, had been to Church etc, and had wondered about life after death etc, but this was the first direct experience I had.

For the next four years, ---- while in fact my mum did a degree in heology and tried to become ordaned I was incredibly interested in devine and spiritual matters.

I studdied comparative religions, went to some of my mum's lectures and read various theology books, ---- including pilgrim's progress. At that stage I also wanted to bbecome a priest.

then, at age 12 my abuse started. For the next three years I had to concentrate only upon survival, and didn't particularly think about God beyond memories of what had happened to me at age 7.

Once I got out of that situation, things started to pick up again. I started studdying more comparative religions, ---- chatted to everyone from Christians to Muslims to buhdists and Wickens, ---- and in fact very nearly studdied theology instead of philosophy.

More than that, I even had a couple of miner echoes of what I'd first experienced at the age of 7, ---- particularly as I started to practice meditation.

Slowly however over time, things changed. My beliefs and understandings of God become tacit rather than active. They were theological positions I held in debates, no longer ideas or thought that had any force or relation to my life.

The further I slipped into depression, the more distant my sense of God seemed to get. When I realized this I tries several of the old techniques such as meditation and prayer, and reread some of those old theological books.

but nothing.

the last straw came last year when I was debating theology with someone and suddenly realized it was just words, ----- a language game in the best Witkenstein tradition.

Now I'm something close to an agnostic. My experiences seem like distant memories with no force, ---- maybe I was wrong.

I've tried to seak the sense of God I once had, ---- but found nothing. I've tried to ask for help, ---- and found nothing.

right now I simply do not know. Perhaps it is I who have gone away from God, ---- in which case, where the heck is the loving, supportive being I first believed in at the age of 7.

I don't want to take the step into full agnosticism of saying that God might not exist, ---- but right now I'm very close to it indeed.

Ps: I use the term "god" simply for convenience. even at my most spiritual, I was a universalist rather than exclusively a Christian.

Luke,

Read the prodical son story.
God is but waiting for you to return to him.

Mike

Jesus said: The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. But I am come that they might have have life and have it more abundantly. John 10:10b

Allen

pufferfish

Thanks for the responses, but I'm utterly confused as to how i'm supposed to return to God if I have no sense that God is even there.

As I said, I've tried all the old methods of being in touch with God and nothing has worked.

Luke,
Sometimes God is standing so close to us that we overlook him in our search.

Sometimes like a picture on the wall he has been there so long we no longer even see him. But he is there, waiting till we are ready to listen and accept him as he is and not as we would like him to be.

As CS Lewis once said, he is not a tame lion.

Mike, and Allan I would have to say that I agree with you both. While my commitment is very much to order and relate to the world in a way that has at it's sustaining creative center a God and furthermore I am way keen on the whole christianity thing I also find tremendous meaning in this faith in large part because within its>

profryr1974 i love your post, so eloquently expressed and insightful.

Thanks for that.

Profryr1974,

But God allowed Jesus to be brutally beaten and put to death on a Roman cross. Not because he did not love his son or could not have stop it. But because thu Jesus obedience and acceptance to fulfill God's will. Thru Jesus's sarifice on that cross he took upon himself the debt we could not pay. To cleanse of us all of our sins even those that had not been committed bt those not yet born. For all those who have faith in Jesus Christ. So as I see it if I don't choose to believe in the sarifice of Jesus Christ for all sinners. Then it is I who have walked away from God and not the other way around.
In God's plan all things work out for those who love Jesus Christ. Bad thing happens to good people. Satan wants to bring down with him as many of God's children as he can.

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities,against powers, against rhe rulers of the darkness of this age,against spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places" (eph 6:12)nkj

Until you understand this nothing makes sense.

We need to stay focus on whom is our real enemy - SATAN.
The prince of light. The ruler of this world. And satan's greatest lie and victory is convincing mankind that he does not exist. He is the master of all lies.

For many years I was trapped in my anger at God for allowing me to be abused as a child. Today I have freedom from the pain and abuse that I suffered as a child. Because I became able to see his love for me. By the fact that he gave up his only son to die in my place for my sins. While I was still a sinner and sinning against him.

God gave me the strenght to survive and then to overcome the things that have happened to me in my life. And to learn how to use these things for the benefit of others who have suffered the same abuse isssues as I have had to in my life. Maybe this was why I suffered the things as a child. Everybody is useful to God evem if it is just to be a bad example for others.

Luke, thanks for leading me in the direct to open my bible tonight.

Mike

Guys, I sometimes feel like the man who fell into the hands of robbers. I was robbed as a child. I was robbed of my childhood, my innocense, my sense of security, and my sexual health. This is why I post this passage. Who was it that found me and cared for my wounds?

Luke 10:30-36

30 In reply Jesus said:
"A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.
31 A priest (religious official) happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite (a man of esteemed position), when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan (a man of despised race), as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine (medicine). Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'

36 "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"
NIV

Allen

pufferfish

No

Charlie

You know more about me than what I have posted because of our conversations. You know I was raised in cult. I was taught my Master was Satan. He was the one I bowed down to. God was the enemy.

I sat in church every Sunday listening to them ramble on about God. We had to go, it provided a good cover for what was really going on. My father was even a deacon for a while. After that church though, we'd go to my real church where we heard the "truth".

There were so many things growing up Charlie that I shouldn't have survived. There's no logical explanation why I did. A few times during those rituals I knew there was somebody there with me, telling me to hang on that I'd make it. I'm not saying it was God or anything but I know that's why I made it.

I don't have a relationship with God but I know hes there. I'm reading things that some of the guys here have told me to start with. I guess what I am trying to say is just keep an open mind. You said you don't know how to talk to God, I dont either really but I think I am making progress. Just be still, tell Him you're ready to hear and listen, not with your head but with your heart.

J

This the amazing part for me too. I have no way to explain how I made it from age 11 to 18. I should have died several times. I should have been arrested many times. Even after that, I should have contracted AIDS.

But there was something in the core of my being that was not "touchable" by all the outside influences. Something that made me stay positive (even just a little) and that the outcome would be ok. I can't logically explain it either.

I considered myself an atheist for many years, yet this "core belief" stayed with me and made me question my attitude about God.

I joined the Catholic Church 6 years ago. I still had trouble intellectually believing in God. One book that really helped me get past that was Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.

Your brother,
Jim

HI BROTHERS IN PAIN.

Well after my WOR last weekend, and asking for some devine help in finding little Peter, it was granted. I'm not sure just how much asking for devine help made me find him. I have been looking for him for 70 yrs.

But he is here and he is me. And I am happy.

Heal well my brothers/friends.

Pete (Irishmoose)

Pete,
I am so glad you have found little Pete. I watched with amazement and awe as you steadfastly pursue your goal during the weekend.

God bless you. Your friend and brother.

Gerald