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#28508 - 12/15/02 10:39 PM compulsive masturbation
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
I haven't seen much spoken about this topic but I feel that the issue of compulsive masturbation is very important. I recently read the book The Sexual Healing Journey by Wendy Maltz and I found that I most likely compulsively masturbate. This has always seemed normal to me but without fail I always masturbate in a semi-alert state as I'm waking up and then again as I'm going to bed. It's automatic. I also think about the same women day in and day out. They were females that I found sexually attractive but I was never able to establish an intimate relationship with them. For the most part I could easily substitute these women for my perp, which was my sister. I stopped thinking about her while I would masturbate years ago and years before I started to recover from my SA. I knew then that that behavior wasn't healthy. Though this type of destructive behavior hasn't really changed. I suppose what I'm trying to get at is whether this type of behavior is indeed compulsive masturbation? And furthermore how do I go about curtailing it?

A second part of this is pornography. Before I found MS I use to spend an hour before bed looking at porn. Now I spend more time here and much less time looking at it. I know that my friends who never were sexually abused look at porn all the time. But as a survivor should I not look at porn? Is all porn destructive for me? Between compulsively masturbating and looking at porn how do I allow myself to have a healthy sexual release that allows me to break this destructive cycle? Physically I feel that I need a sexual release even though I'm emotionally stunted and withdrawn.

These are just some thoughts that have been running through my head. I'm curious to see how others have dealt with this. Thanks and take care.
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#28509 - 12/16/02 07:07 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
zealander Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 6
Loc: new zealand
I appreciate you writing about this because I think I have the same problem. I masturbate every day, and pornography is a big issue for me too.

Perhaps it feels safer to me, in that I don't need a partner to jack off to porn. I'm not sure if it's chronic, because neither interfere with my work. But I do feel lonely at times.


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#28510 - 12/16/02 12:32 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
bec Offline
Member

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 187
Loc: chicagoland area
hello sleepy and zealander:

i too have a problem with masturbation and pornography. i was emotionally incested by my mother for some 35 years and for the same amount of time i have used food and masturbation to porn as my "self-medicines" of choice.

it has been almost 62 weeks since i last rented porn but, i browsed at a porn shop just yesterday. i honestly do not know how much longer i can go without renting porn videotapes. it truly is an emotional struggle with/for me. living without the use of my self-meds is a huge challenge and really painful.

this is a good place to share your struggles. you will find caring men here who often are dealing with the same issues that you are. i have been coming here for some months now and am truly glad this site exists.

good luck with your struggles men and remember that we always have a choice. we do not have to repeat any old behavior from our past. it is always up to us. sincerely,

bec \:\)


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#28511 - 12/16/02 07:41 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Wifey1
We did have a discussion a while back about partners posting on the male forums, but this one adds a lot to the subject and my opinion is it should stay.

Quote:
I asked mysef BEFORE I had any contact what exactly was I feeling. By doing so giving a NAME to the feelings I was able to sort for myself what was true sexual desire & what was re-enactment or other. I wrote on paper so I could SEE physically in writing what I was feeling.
I took slow steps by sharing with my partner and myself by Voicing WHAT was a definet trigger for me, for example no ‘french kissing’, sharing the exact details of my SA helped to identify what felt “ickey” so WE could not do those same acts.
Now we ASK each other “Are you still WITH ME?” if we see a look of disassociation on each others face. (Yea it some times got us giggling or p.o’d ) then if one was or is unable to BE IN the act itself we trust (this is huge) the other to NOT allow the activity to continue until grounded again.
Painstakingly, little by little with slips and falls and great strides forward , for MYSELF I was
able to get to a place of happiness, joy & tremendous intimacy and a feeling of healthy sexual
activity.
I think this is so good, and you're both so brave to even try it.
I promise I will try this as well, because I know how much my sex life is still dominated by the disassociation I feel when we do make love.
I find it impossible to connect intimately even after 27 years of marriage ( I hope it's not BECAUSE OF ?? )

And what happens then ? down I go into a nose dive of depressive guilt. Although it's not the only reason I take a dive - today I've struggled, really bad day today.

Unsuccesful sex, unsuccesful christmas shopping trip, my wifes car broke down on Saturday( a $500 clutch to add to my 4x4 needing $800 wortyh of tyres ! ) and a pile of other crap that just about finished it.
So I had another day shopping, and spent all day fighting the urge to act out.
I came home empty handed and was about to go for the online porn, but I got interupted.

Which brings us back to Sleepy's origional post, yeah - I feel crap so I masturbate, and I feel crap about that, so I masturbate.

Recently I've gotten the better of it, although days like today remind me.
But at one time my right arm was like Popeye's !

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#28512 - 12/16/02 10:27 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Wifey1,
Thanks for the reply. I found it very interesting. I've been thinking about starting a journal so that I can write down my thoughts and hopefully get into touch with my emotions again.

Dave,
I got a good laugh at the popeye remark. I can relate to that!

This whole subject is something that I've only begun to address. I've noticed that I mostly do it subconciously. As I'm waking in the morning I always reach down for my genitals so that I can perform the task. It's not that I even want to. I just do it without thinking. I'd like to break this type of behavior, though. It seems very difficult.
Thanks,
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#28513 - 12/16/02 10:41 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
I think the best thing about this web site is knowing I'm not the only one. Before that it was like the Red Hot Chilli Peppers song "with the birds I'll share this lonely view". I never thought anyone would understand. My neighbor actually taught me how to do that when I was 11. I didnt even have pubic hair yet, and I was able to finish and do it up to three times a day. I was humiliated and shamed publicly.

I started to write the whole story to post, but I feel discouraged by recent posts that have critiqued other posts as fake or attention seeking. My neighbor told me no one would believe me, and people only ever believe what sounds believable. My story is way out there, but 100 percent true.

I'll bet if my neighbor found out about this website that is exactly what he would do: critique posts as garbage and fake and attention seeking to convince people not to believe what doesn't seem normal. Maybe the critics are perps, I dont know. I question the motives of anyone who discourages someone from speaking up. What would someone have to loose by reading a fake post, thirty seconds, a few minutes. I always wondered what my neighbor said to prevent adults who knew some of what he did from going to the police. Now I'm starting to get an idea. I know Lloydy must wonder the same thing from listening to his story. I seriously question the motives of anyone trying to silence anyone else on this web site. I encourage anyone to post anything no matter how unbelievable it seems, and I'll read it and give the writer the benefit of the doubt. What did I loose by reading Lioncub's posts? Maybe thirty minutes of my time total? Maybe I'm so fragile I cant live with the idea that someone else decieved me? As if every single person in the entire world hasnt been decieved at least a hundred times. Oh no, a hundred and one will be too many, is that it? Why should I not listen to some far fetched sounding posts? I would like the guys who critique and discourage to tell me. To be honest all of these stories seem a little bit unbelievable sometimes, but destroying victims credibility seemes to be the perps bread and butter. But I'm a lousy example because I'm going to wait before posting my story if I do it at all. I also worry about giving other perps my neighbor's ideas, so I have to think about the best way to do this.

Just for the record, almost 26 months without masturbating and porn and never felt better about my history with it.

Also I'm glad we dropped the pros and cons of flaming and getting flamed, my post on the subject was taking so much time, I couldnt spend time on more important subjects like the abuse. Although I think we need to figure out some way of dealing with it, because that kind of stuff had a big impact on my interpersonal relationships and ability to trust.

Les_Angry


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#28514 - 12/16/02 10:42 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5777
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Hi Sleepy:
See if this article helps you get a grip on the behavior (pun intended).
http://www.malesurvivor.org/articles/singer2.htm

In all seriousness, from what you describe, the behavior is one that no longer has a legitimate function but serves only to numb you out from your feelings. The end result is keeping you in a cycle of self-defeating behaviors, from what it sounds like.

The more you feel bad about this, the greater the self-loathing and greater likelihood of repeating what temporarily feels good but leaves you unempowered.

Hope this helps.
Good luck
Ken


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#28515 - 12/17/02 08:50 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
zadok1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
i first began seeking help for sexual addiction, and while searching for the roots of it, i uncovered the molestation. i guess i kind of backed into the memories while working on compulsive masturbation and porn use. after three years, i have concluded that the addictions are a symptom of other problems. to escape life, many abused people turn to sex, drugs or other means of numbing themselves.

unfortunately for me, the sexual problems were only the tip of the iceburg. i also learned to run to sex to avoid confrontations, and now struggle to express my emotions and needs. i think as far as hurting my partners this has done far more damage than the masturbation and porn. marriage by nature needs intamacy on all levels. when you close your life off from your mate to hide this addiction and abuse, you undermine your marriage (relationship). you can never get really close and attached. it become frustrating for your mate, and they eventually leave.

the key for me was defining a healthy sex life, and then setting bounderies to live by. i think expecting yourself to never again masturbate is unreasonable. you set yourself up for failure, and failure brings guilt and shame and then the need to escape again. if you can establish a place where instead of being a negative, it becomes a healthy tool, it breaks that cycle.

my personal view goes like this. as mates we are to meet one another's needs. by masturbating i am robbing my mate of something that should be hers. so now, i have a standing rule that i only masturbate after making a real effort to be intimate with my wife. this meets her needs as i lavish affection and attention on her, and then if it doesnt turn sexual, i masturbate with a clear conscience. at that point, it becomes an extension of something healthy. as long as i do my part, i allow myself to feel good about it, and about meeting her needs as well as my own. it is all really a matter of perspective. masturbation and porn is a problem because of the way it makes you feel, not because there is anything wrong with the actual actions. does that make any sense?

_________________________
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

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#28516 - 12/17/02 09:45 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
smp Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 3
Loc: Jerusalem, Israel
I'd like to simply point out that anything in life that draws you away from what is truly important..anything in life that isn't important..or if you do it without knowing what your purpose is...is a waste of time for a person.

Porno and masturbation isn't important, and there is no positive "purpose" to them. Intimacy is important, for instance. Health is important, for instance. Masturbation diminishes strength, does not build intimacy.

Rather, sexuality exists to assist in building intimacy.

The simple math is..all porno is non-constructive, for those who view it, those who live off it's profits, and those who are it's subjects. Masturbation reduces intimacy and strength...it is also non-constructive.


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#28517 - 12/17/02 11:32 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
zadok1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
i agree with you on porn. when i established what i saw as healthy, i turned to the Bible for help. in my mind, marriage is an exclusive thing that works best when kept exclusive and intimate. porn violates the intent of what marriage was supposed to be. Christ teaches that to lust after these women is the same as actually sleeping with them. i would fill my mind with all these images, and dwell on them for motivation. i never realized what a barrier those create. they are a wall that keep you from feeling all you can for your wife.

masturbation on the other hand has its place in my mind. there are times when because of physical seperation due to illness, jobs, differing libidos where it can bridge the gap. i am careful to focus on my wife, and to take care of her needs before resorting to it, but if i have done my part, i dont see where it violates any>
_________________________
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

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#28518 - 12/17/02 02:26 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
There's some good stuff on this thread !

My crappy couple of days ended up with me going online for porn for the first time in over 12 months.

And it made me realise some of the things many of you say here.
I hadn't made love or masturbated for nearly 2 weeks, so I had a regular sense of sexual frustration for a start.
Add to that some stress and depression - not much - just Christmas and car repair bills, and I was primed and ready to go. Which I did.

But now I feel ok, the frustration has gone and I feel better all round, maybe one thing was feeding the other ?
I made a determined effort not to feel guilty about it, and I pretty much succeeded. Although the guilt did show slightly in me thinking "what can I do to cancel it out, make it good again ?"
I was kinda thinking - if I do something good and decent I will feel better about myself and the guilt will go away.

RUBBISH !!!!
I tried that for 30 years, so I sit here now NOT feeling the slightest bit guilty about looking at online porn and making like Popeye !
Although I am going to make a determined effort to refrain from the porn again.

Wifey mentioned the sleep disorders, and I have sleep aponea, and like Sleepy I wake up ready to go into action.
But I now have a Cpap machine to help me sleep properly, which it does wonderfuly, and I still wake up the same.

I developed the sleep disorder at the time the abuse took place in my early teens, and it's stayed with me. My doc' said it was unusual to have started with it so young, maybe there's a connection ?

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#28519 - 12/17/02 03:33 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Dave, I also have sleep apnea, just dx'd a couple years ago after my fibro dx (fibro almost always comes with a sleep disorder), and use a C-PAP, which helps, tho not as much lately; "seasonal service," I guess... :rolleyes:

I now know that I too had sleep apnea starting in very early childhood (everyone called it "being a light sleeper") and that it doubtless goes back to my early SA, as does the FM.

SMP, I meant to tell you how much I appreciate your timely & timeless mathematics! Now that's the kind of math even I can understand!

Take care guys

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#28520 - 12/17/02 05:30 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Can't say that I ever thought masterbation was a problem. As a teenager 3 or 4 times a day was the norm. From mid 20s till mid 40s - maybe minimum once a day & sometimes twice. Now that I'm almost 52, hey once a day will do. I've always considered it normal. My eye sight is fine and I don't seem to have any excessive hair on my palms, as for insanity ... the jury is still out... but I understand there are wonderful meds out there to bring me around if I go over the top and start drooling. Seriously tho, I don't really see a problem unless it becomes profoundly self abusive and you start getting abrasions and sores from your vigorous enthusiasm. I remember when I was about 17 years old a bunch of us guys were all drinking beer and teasing one of our pals about how often he jerked off. An informal (don't know how accurate) poll was taken and it turns out that most of us guys at that age were jerking off at least 3 times a day. And as far as I know, none of them except myself were ever sexually abused. I am interested on what the data might be on the connection between people who were sexually abused and FM. FM and osteoarthritis are the two things that beat the hell out of me every day of my life.


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#28521 - 12/17/02 06:44 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Cement Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 740
Loc: Southern California
I slipped off the side of the wagon last week. I won't say I fell off the wagon, just slipped off the side. Dragged one foot on the ground. Held on for dear life. And still holding.

I have masturbated as long as I can remember until this past May when I was caught by my wife in a photo exchange with a woman online, and I was forced to confront the effect of my acting out on our relationship. I had masturbated only once since then, then...

This past week I went to the peep show, and masturbated while I watched the naked girl. This is not good for me, but the experience was not as devastating as I expected. I am scared, however, because, like cigarettes or alcohol, sex is a clever beast; it can fool the brain into thinking sex can be 'controlled.' And I am very susceptible to its call right now.

My wife and I are in very difficult times - the holidays and a death in her family have not helped. Let's not forget that I 'cheated' on her online. Trust is at a premium, and I haven't got the cash to pay it.

I want so badly to masturbate, if only to relieve stress, or, as I have put it before, to lessen my almost constant feeling of powerlessness. But I think it is a slippery slope (hey, double entendre anyone?) to more.

On the other subject, I have been dx'd (is that 'diagnosed?' all this shorthand: T's, dx, rx, fm; I can't keep up) with sleep apnea, but haven't suffered my first effects in almost three years effects last Thursday. I had an attack so bad I awoke, mid gasp (that is not a strong enough word for the vehement inhale of air I was attempting) to my wife screaming at me, which triggered an anxiety attack that I recovered from hours later, and only after a 911 call.

Man, those ambulance guys, "We can give you a ride to the hospital, but they won't do anything. It is up to you." Thanks, dude, they oughtta give you a medal for bedside manner. Did I mention that I feel like I am going to pass out, and that if I do pass out, I know I won't be able to breathe, JUST LIKE I COULDN'T BREATHE THE LAST TWO SECONDS I WAS ASLEEP?? Mightn't that be a reasonable causality for the anxiety? Douche nozzle? Douche nozzle - man, I love that as an insult...but I digress.

These things are connected, I know they are. How they are connected, I do not know. But these cannot be coincidences. Right?

_________________________
And let the darkness fear our light.

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#28522 - 12/17/02 07:19 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Yes, back to the 21st century and away from the spiritual and moral implications of masturbation.

Ken,
Quote:
In all seriousness, from what you describe, the behavior is one that no longer has a legitimate function but serves only to numb you out from your feelings. The end result is keeping you in a cycle of self-defeating behaviors, from what it sounds like.
You are absolutly correct. Although I feel it may be a little different for me. I was sexually abused by my sister when I was 5. Truthfully, I really enjoyed it and I've tried to recreate those feelings in one way or another for the past 20 years. So I see this behavior as a way of trying to maintain those enjoyable feelings. But you are correct in that it no longer serves any legitimate function. I feel as though the side effects numb any real feelings that I may have. A couple of years ago I had a near mental crisis. Triggered by a somewhat gay scene in a movie, I came to the realization that my sexual orientation was in serious doubt. I have never viewed myself as being gay, but it has been very hard to understand those feelings when I have these automatic responses in the morning that make me think about past women when I masturbate.

Roy's analysis seems to be very much on target:
Quote:
Another thought to consider is whether masturbation might be a way of subconsciously avoiding dealing with your sexuality directly. If you are always releasing the biological "pressure", the real desire may never build to such a crescendo that it requires your full undivided attention.
This may be the case. Even if it isn't this cycle makes it impossible for me to enguage in any real heterosexual relationships. For example, if a woman does show interest in me I do not have any stronge urges to have sex with her. I would rather go home and beat off. Maybe it is safer for me to do that or maybe I'm not heterosexual and I'm only conditioned to beat off to women. These are things that run through my head. I just know that this behavior is distracting me from developing normally.

Like Andrew-Almost52, I've never thought masturbation was inherently bad. I still beat off all the time in all manners of ways. It's just that now I see this automatic resopnse to pleasuring myself in the morning as being a bit of a distraction. I don't feel that I have much control over it. It's the same repetitive thoughts day in and day out. Anyway, we all need to have that release in some fashion. And like Dave has alluded to how do we release in a healthy way.

Wifey1,
Contrary to my nick name, I don't have any sleep disorders. My name was an old nick name given to me in college.
Thanks,
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#28523 - 12/17/02 07:28 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Yeah, I'm with Andrew and a few others - I have no problem ( guilt ) with masturbating. I know it's normal, gives me pleasure and stops me exploding \:D

The problems I have are with the fantasy / acting out rituals that I used to use ( and did again today ) and that I dont make love with my wife as often as I would like.

So one affects the other, I don't have sex - I jack off. Then I dont have sex 'because' I've jacked off.
Then I get pissed off - depressed and go looking for the ultimate jack off with long periods of fantasy ( this one lasted 3 days in every moment I could devote to it ) and acting out ( porn etc ) which I remember all too clearly from about 5 to 10 years back when I lived with this day in - day out.

I know how you feel Cement, dragging a foot off the wagon reminds me of how I was, and how much I dont want to go back there.

I'm scared shitless of going back, and I hope that these occasional foot dragging episodes are nothing more than a reminder of why I'm still trying to get better.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#28524 - 12/17/02 07:36 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Cement
when I was wired up for the sleep aponea tests I recorded 42 'significant sleep pauses' in one hour. I think I averaged about 30.

I noticed the difference my Cpap machine made the next day after getting it, I was no longer driving my Land Rover by feel as I bounced off verges and kerbs and was suddenly awakened ! I wouldn't be without it now.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#28525 - 12/17/02 08:13 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Cement Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 740
Loc: Southern California
Thanks, Dave.

James
(I always forget to put my name...so much better when i do, huh?)

_________________________
And let the darkness fear our light.

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#28526 - 12/17/02 09:17 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
This is such a good thread. Masturbation was the way the abuse started with me, or at least confiding in the perp with questions about it. He was like an older brother to me and I realize now that he was the one guiding the conversations to that 'forbidden subject'. I have masturbated ever since and most times felt very guilty afterwards. What causes me the most guilt is what I fantasize about during the masturbation not the act itself.

For the last couple of years our sex life has been pretty sporadic. When attempts at sex with my wife were not met I resorted to jerking off. I felt justified doing this but somehow I think that I just didn't put enough effort into having sex with my wife. It doesn't take much to get her out of the mood and it seems that our libidos are seldom in sync.

Regarding the sleep disorders, I've always been a 'light sleeper'. I wake up a couple of dozen times a night and I toss and turn all night too. I've never been wired up in a sleep lab but it's something that I really don't want to deal with right now. I've got enough health problems to last me awhile.

Take care,

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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#28527 - 12/17/02 10:36 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
smp Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 3
Loc: Jerusalem, Israel
I would like to point out that no one ever got depressed because they didn't masturbate and instead spent time with their *healthy* friends or wife. I would like to point out that no one ever got tired or mentally confused by not masturbating. I'd also like to point out that there is a very real physical and mental focus resulting from attending to sexual needs that takes away from focus on other things...(As with any activity)...If sexuality strengthens the love and bond with one's spouse..then it's a trade off for the other things one might have spent time doing..obvious, in balance, a worthwhile one. But if you are not bonding with your spouse..so then there is no trade off..it's a complete loss without gain. We of course have all been trained to use masturbation for "sexual release" and such...but it is clear..the only thing that masturbation releases..is a desire for more sexual activity..(that's true of all forms of sexual contact...) But it is unchecked when it does not involve sacrifice (i.e. service) to another human being, and, of course, God. Can I say "God" here? Sorry if I'm not allowed to, and I won't do it again then.


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#28528 - 12/18/02 12:35 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
SMP,
With all due respect, you are very new to this site. This issue is very real to all of us here. Because we have all been sexually abused masturbation is a topic that needs to be engaged in a constructive manner. If you would like to argue the moral virtues of not masturbating I would suggest posting on the Religion for Survivors.
Thanks,
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#28529 - 12/18/02 03:16 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Dear Pat Robertson eeerrr...SMP. Ooops, whack,boff... that was a moderator giving me another penalty for highsticking. Only kidding. Sorry SMP, I totally think yer offside on this one. Peace.


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#28530 - 12/18/02 03:26 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
I always masturbated daily until last May when i ended the silence and told my wife about my SA. at the age of 52 after being married for 20 years. My wife alse throught I was over sexed and liked the fact that I masturbated, that way I wasn,t alse bugging her for sex.
Well it was a totally different after I told my wife about the SA. I just stopped jerking off and starting to have some of the best sex ever with my wife. Man I couldn't believe how great the love making became once it was the only thing in my life.
So I can.t say that masturbating is bad but Love was so much better when I didn't masturbate daily.
Like Cement and Lloydy I have fallen this last week. The wife is out of town and I have been under lots of stress at work. Well guess that life.
Muldoon

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#28531 - 12/18/02 03:34 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Hey Muldoon. Here's to wives and lovers. I guess the ultimate circumstance might be to make regular unbridled love to your partner, jerk off every now and again .... while fantasizing about your wife ..or lover! A novel thought. ;\)


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#28532 - 12/18/02 05:09 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
Hey SMP,

I just want to encourage you not to listen to anyone who wants to discourage you from posting. Over two years ago somebody gave me his oppinion on the subject which was similar to yours:
Quote:
I would like to point out that no one ever got depressed because they didn't masturbate and instead spent time with their *healthy* friends or wife.
I tried giving it up and it actually worked. I also tried to convince myself that everybody else did it and therfore it was o.k. but every time I did it for twenty years I still felt disgusted with my self afterwards. Even when I was an athiest, and even in recent years when it became socially exceptable to admit to doing it. You can say anything you want about God in this forum. There is a section for gay survivors and I've never heard anyone tell another member to get out and only post there, I don't think they should and I don't think you should. This is all part of healing.

I've listened to and tried your advice and tried the advice of those who critiqued your post. In my experience: your advice works and thier's doesn't. And believe me I tried thier's ten times longer than I tried yours.

Some people can only hear what they want to hear, and some are open to the truth. So I say keep telling the truth.

Sleepy: I think SMP is trying to tell you something"
Quote:
You are not a sexual object; you are a sacred soul.
Andrew: You are really making your point by making hockey references to a guy from Jerusalem. (P.s. Gretzky left Edmonton 20 years ago and he's never coming back... deal with it).

Les_Angry


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#28533 - 12/18/02 12:06 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Thanks for the tip Les. Never noticed that SMP comes from Israel. By the way, Gretz got traded 14 years ago. I lived in Toronto at the time..and Canada has never gotten over it. Great player.
Also thanks for the well thought out right wing Christian agenda response. Beware the mongoose.
Brrrr..shiver me timbers.


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#28534 - 12/18/02 12:34 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
SMP
Quote:
Can I say "God" here? Sorry if I'm not allowed to, and I won't do it again then.
If your beliefs get you through the day, then that's ok - feel free to talk about it.

Us atheists might have different methods, and the two sides might disagree, but let's respect each others views.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#28535 - 12/18/02 12:47 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Muldoon

how come I know this, but can't get my head around doing it ?

Quote:
So I can.t say that masturbating is bad but Love was so much better when I didn't masturbate daily.
If there's a secret to this - will someone please share it with me. :rolleyes:

Matt

Quote:
what smp states masturbation is a so called SIN but god forbid anyone to have sex or to relieve sexual frustration.I beleive masturbation can be a healthy thing but also can become an addicting thing to us as survivors especially
that's so true, we were all probably raised to be religious in one faith or another and masturbation was always a sin, and outside religion society reflected the same moral standard.
So we grew up being told by adults not to do it - and then some other adult comes along and makes us do it !!!
Is it any wonder we have mixed up ideas about it ?

And is there any religion or society where masturbation is acceptable ? Just wondering....

Ok, second half - and let's keep it clean guys. ;\)

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#28536 - 12/18/02 02:25 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Hey guys,
I'm sorry to cause such an up roar over this. I wished I hadn't written that last night because I didn't have a clear head. I don't want to discourage anyone from posting anything so I'm sorry SMP. I didn't mean to attack you on your beliefs. I don't think I realized how charged of a topic this is.

The reason I got a little hot over these comments was nicely said by Lloydy.
Quote:
that's so true, we were all probably raised to be religious in one faith or another and masturbation was always a sin, and outside religion society reflected the same moral standard. So we grew up being told by adults not to do it - and then some other adult comes along and makes us do it !!! Is it any wonder we have mixed up ideas about it ?
These are things that I don't feel I have much control over. Zadok1 said this in "afraid of who I must become."
Quote:
To her you masturbate because that is what you chose to do, and she can't understand being driven to it by a sick mind that demands an escape from problems. She doesn't fathom a point where sickness demands and you no longer have a choice.
I see it as being very similar to telling a drug addict to just stop taking drugs because they're bad for you. Do you think they'll just stop? I doubt it. So if you tell some surivor of sexual abuse to just stop masturbating because it is bad for you for whatever reason, do you think they'll stop? You have to engage it in very constructive ways. And Ken's article is very good in this respect.

For the record, I try to not look at porn and for the most part I do not. As a survivor, I don't see any benifit in it. I'm also trying to curb some of my masturbation. The compulsiveness of it is very distracting. And in a perfect world I wish I didn't partake in any of these bahaviors. Take care guys.
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#28537 - 12/18/02 03:30 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Cement Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 740
Loc: Southern California
I will chime in.

In general, the hairs on my neck stand up when someone gives opinion stated as fact. I get tingly in my forelobes when that opinion implies judgment about behaviors that are murkily rooted in abnormal sexualization for us (survivors).

My back gets ramrod straight when, here, where we share our most difficult struggles, those comments are not accompanied by any personal experience of struggle. Am I being too vague?

I do not wish to flame anyone, just let it be known that we are all trying to get perspective on masturbation because we all feel guilty about some aspect of it: frequency, fantasy, loss of intimacy or guilt itself, ironically.

I, for one, do not need to be reminded of reasons I should continue to feel guilty.

I applaud everyone who has defeated their own demons and moved on. I would benefit from hearing about their struggle and what their strategy was in their victory. Just please don't lecture me.

I give a standing ovation to my brothers who come here and lay their experience bare to help themselves and others. I embrace all my brothers.

I do not speak for anyone but myself, unless you agree with me; then I speak for you, too.

James the blunt

_________________________
And let the darkness fear our light.

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#28538 - 12/18/02 06:41 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
Hey Wuamei and Lloydy,

Thanks for encouraging everyone on both sides of the issue to continue posting. I think you are doing a great job preventing us from falling into cliques based on our past and present behaviors, beliefs, prefernces etc. or getting intimidated off the boards.

Sleepy: good topic, a big issue for me in my life.

Quote:
Can't we all just get along - Rodney King
I think we can

Les_Angry


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#28539 - 12/18/02 08:47 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Les, thanks friend, I needed that! \:\)

And I think we can too!

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#28540 - 12/18/02 10:03 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
I'm glad that we got all this sorted out. I am suprised with the interest that this post generated. 45 or so...wow. I don't think I've seen too many this long. And plus I noticed some other threads that spun off this one.

Keep posting on this subject. The more I read the more I understand myself and everyone here.
See ya later,
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#28541 - 12/18/02 11:21 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Mike:

You're starting this thread, the length of it, the many opinions & insights it generated, the way it's getting all worked out--this is what sharing & support on a recovery forum is all about!

And Mike, you are what a survivor is all about!

Wuame

PS I suspect we'll see a lot more posting on this & similar subjects.

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#28542 - 12/19/02 12:02 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
Roy:

Just amazing.
Quote:
Another thought to consider is whether masturbation might be a way of subconsciously avoiding dealing with your sexuality directly. If you are always releasing the biological "pressure", the real desire may never build to such a crescendo that it requires your full undivided attention.
This is exactly right for me - my circumstances and issues. Thanks for putting this in front of me again.

And another thing you said -
Quote:
To check all this out may I suggest an experiment? For an entire week, tie up your "friendly" hand to the bed and see what happens. If your other hand learns to compensate, then you might need to immobilize him, too, in some way. You're smart, I'm sure you can figure something out. Go ahead and scoff all you naysayers! I can almost hear you laughing. I think the results might be very interesting and I'm being perfectly serious. We'll talk later.
Once upon a time, I did something very similar. I didn't tie my hands. I went to bed each night wearing a pair of briefs, followed by a pair of tight longjohns, then a pair of athletic shorts with drawstring tied tight, then a pair of sweats also with drawstring tied tight.

I was determined to abstain for two weeks. If I "slipped", in the shower for instance, I reset the two week clock.

After about a month, as I approached my two week goal, I met someone in a deli, and began a very pleasant relationship. Although short-lived, it is fondly remembered, and was very positive, passionate, and both physically and emotionally satisfying.

Talk about results. Once again, thanks for reminding me of things I know.

I've been staying off-line the past month or so specifically to stay away from porn and marathon masturbation. It is interesting to note that the major issues that were tearing me up a month ago have been largely resolved now. Did the effort required to resolve them help divert me from net porn or did abstaining from the net allow me to make the efforts? Probably a little of both. In much the same ways that negative feelings and actions feed off each other, it seems that positive, affirmative feelings and actions do also.

I have located an SAA group nearby, and I'll be giving that a try if I start to feel I'm regressing in my goals. To paraphrase Mel Brooks, in "The History of the World, Part 1", "It's good to have a goal!"

And finally,
Quote:
It's possible that this is exactly perfect for where you are in your development right now.
This was true for me, but that time is past. Like so many defenses or other compensatory behaviors, the time is past and it's just not working anymore.

For me, moving on is the obvious next step, and your words have inspired me.



Thanks very much.

And thanks to Mike for starting this thread. It seems to be a core issue for so many of us.

Take care all,
Donald

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#28543 - 12/19/02 02:38 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
Hey Don,

Along the lines of what you and Roy said:

Quote:
Once upon a time, I did something very similar. I didn't tie my hands. I went to bed each night wearing a pair of briefs, followed by a pair of tight longjohns, then a pair of athletic shorts with drawstring tied tight, then a pair of sweats also with drawstring tied tight.
I remember around early college age feeling hypersexualized, and every time I got aroused which was often, I would feel out of control, conflicted and it would bring on anxiety attacks and bad feelings about not being able to talk to women. What I decided to do to combat this was to wear an athletic supporter all the time. I know that sounds weird, but I felt much safer with it on. (I didnt put the cup in though) I didn't have to worry about getting erections constantly from the lack of activity caused my sharing a room with first 3 and then 2 other people. It kind of numbed me out down there. I guess it works kind of like an ace bandage. When I didn't feel arousal, I didn't feel bad about myself. It also made living with roomates bearable, because I didn't worry that I would wake up in the early morning "beating the wizard" as they say (which was often the case at home).

I don't think wearing it was very good for the circulation. Also the best friend of the girl I was in love with noticed I was wearing it every day, and I was very embarrased. But in a way I felt better because I was letting her know something wasn't right with me in that department, which might explain to her why I never "closed the deal with her friend who flirted with me for 4 years. She kept telling me I should go to a doctor if I had a problem down there. I did feel like there was something wrong with me connected with that part of the body, and wearing it seemed to magically make the bad feelings go away. The truth was at the time I really didn't know why I was wearing it, I didnt remember the abuse for 14 more years. I only know that things in that department seemed more under control.

Anyway I don't recommend it, I just wanted to let you know that you guys are not alone based on the portion of your post I quoted.

Les_Angry


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#28544 - 12/19/02 08:43 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
zadok1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
I applaud everyone who has defeated their own demons and moved on. I would benefit from hearing about their struggle and what their strategy was in their victory. Just please don't lecture me. .

I felt that sharing my struggle with masturbation might help, even if not everyone agrees with how I handled it. To begin, I started using masturbation to escape life’s problems when I was thirteen. We are talking several times daily, and binges where I could go perhaps ten times in a day. Raised in a Christian home, I felt that what I was doing was sinful and wrong, and that is where the problems come in. To live in a continual state of sin makes you feel warped, sick, perverted and too many other things to list. What drove it home even more was the way all my friends made fun of it. Naturally, guys never get serious and actually talk about such things, and I just assumed since they made fun of it, they weren’t doing it. All of these misconceptions combined to make me feel out of control and ashamed when I felt compelled to continue doing it.

I always knew I was using sex to escape life, never really denied it. I always knew loosing control over it meant that it was a problem. From the start I knew, but where does a thirteen-year-old boy turn for help? My father was abusive, and I couldn’t talk to him. Forget talking to my friends, because they made fun of people who did that. And no way could I tell my mom what was happening. Basically, I felt isolated and trapped. I knew I had problems, but felt I couldn’t tell anyone. The solution, surrender to your fate of burning in hell, and just go on the best you can.

In 1999, after a tearful night of promising to get help, and begging my wife to stay, the journey began. Through SLAA I found a local support group, and the guys there put me in touch with a therapist who was experienced in addiction. I did the work though. See a therapist is kind of like a guide through all of this, but in the end, you have to do the work. On top of therapy, I read every book I could get my hands on. Before long I was uncovering the abuse, molestation and traumas of my life, and I understood how they made me the way I am. See that is empowering for me. I feed off understanding and knowing, and when I can look at things in a logical way and make them make sense, I can control them.

For years, I rationalized using porn. ‘everyone does it’ or ‘they’re only pictures’ I am sure you all know the drill. When I changed my perspective to make it a clear negative, it was easy for me to walk away. Okay, maybe not easy, but it was easier. I would think things like ‘it victimizes women and children’ or ‘it dulls the feelings I have for my wife’ or ‘what am I passing on to my children’ . I also found that you need to fill the time and the needs that porn or whatever was filling. That was key for me, understanding why I was doing something, and what I was getting out of it. I looked at every part of my life that way, and it is an exhaustive process.

Now to focus on masturbation, because that is what this thread is about. First of all, I wanted to understand why I did it, what I was getting out of it, what I needed that it was filling, what it was costing me, and why I felt so bad about it. Being a Christian, I often begin with the owner’s manual God gave us for these flesh bodies, the Bible. The Bible is very silent on masturbation, and not one time does God come out and call it sinful. The Bible has the tools and guidelines we need to please and be accepted by God, and nowhere did He ever say that you would be unacceptable if you masturbated. He detailed sins right and left, and if it were important, why would He omit this one. If He doesn’t condemn it, why was I?

As I pointed out, society treats it as a taboo thing. We feel that it is wrong not because the word declares it, but because mankind implies it. With the Bible silent on it, I turned to more humanist means to clarify what separated healthy from unhealthy. Over the past few years I have learned more about sex, about the mind, and about the body than even I can fathom sometimes. I learned that there are no studies that have ever linked masturbation to ill effects on your health, outside of physical and mental damage the person might inflict on themselves by doing it. I worried about my prostate, and all the old myths about going blind or whatever. The fact is that no one has ever linked it to anything like that.

From a biological standpoint there is a very good case for doing it. We tend to lump male hormones into one big group and label it testosterone. The fact is that those hormones take many forms and do many things to our bodies. For example, DHT is testosterone, and many of you know that one side effect it causes is hair loss. The body is geared to release semen every two to three days; if it is not released in that time our bodies recycle it. There are changes in hormone levels that drive this cycle on a mental level, and they push us to seek release before the supply has to be recycled, expending energy and time. Strangely one of the most powerful of these hormones is a female one, Oxytocin. In women it is a strong anti-depressant, and strangely enough the only way to increase the amount is through sexual intercourse. Oral sex and masturbation do nothing to increase it, and for some reason only intercourse releases it. A woman abstain from sex has a much lower level, and is at a greater risk for depression. It also comes into play in men, and increases with time. In men it tends to throw our bodies out of sync, and the way we decrease the level and restore balance is with ejaculation. Now there is a set limit, so do think I am saying these hormones build-up to the point where you explode. You can ignore the signals from your brain, and abstain. Your body has a way of dealing with that too, called nocturnal emission (wet dream).

Now, I started putting things together in my mind. God designed us to want sex, and set up this cycle of two to three days, but he gave us control over it as well. Masturbation is not called a sin, and from a physical point of view the relief of stress, and the anti-depressant effects on the body are positives. Science has linked it to no ill health effects, so why was I feeling so bad about it? I felt bad because something controlled me, instead of the other way. I felt bad because I felt a woman should meet those needs. I felt bad because I was taking something from my wife by doing it. I felt bad because the fantasies I used for motivation reduced the attachment and feeling I had for my wife. It wasn’t the masturbation that made me feel bad, it was the way I used it that did.

For a time I abstained completely, dried out if you will. The increased intimacy and closeness I felt for my wife was incredible. I had never experienced true intimacy before, and believe me it is worth making the effort to stay free of it. Like all things in recovery, you swing from one way to the other, but eventually you stabilize somewhere in the middle. That first rush of feeling close for the first time dies away some, and you are left with a new comfortable life. I did quite well at that for a long time.

Now the wife and I get pregnant, and the frequency falls as she gets sick and bigger. I continue my abstaining, but now fill with resentment because I am stressed all the time. I was watching a show on the health channel, and the guy from Love Line was on it. They were addressing sexual problems, and he pointed out something I found very interesting. Just because a person recovers from some problem, doesn’t mean that it still isn’t part of who he is. Yes, I am recovering, but because of my past I can’t expect my libido to just dry up and go away. It is part of me, a healthy, normal part of everyone’s life. Mine will always be strong and high because that is who and what I am. The key is to express it in healthy ways, and to avoid the addictive ones. Abstaining from masturbation is a good way of doing that, but what about the ill effects depression, resentment and stress have on your body? For me there had to be some middle ground. The high blood pressure, hypertension and wallowing in depression were every bit as unhealthy as any of the rest.

The solution was simple, to set and hold myself to a set of guidelines for using masturbation in a way that I could look at myself and feel good about whom I was. You will not find a husband that is more affectionate, caring and supportive of his wife. My guidelines demand that I meet her needs first, but the bottom line is she works nights, and I work days. We have a baby that places demands on our time and energy, and an older son I have to get to sports and that is always around to hamper intimacy. I could live with the once or twice a month we get to have sex, and the resentment that goes with it, or I can bridge the gap with masturbation.

Currently, I maintain a level of once or twice a week, and I limit my motivating thoughts exclusively to my wife. I always try to initiate something with her first, which is another limiting factor. I demand of myself that I try to meet those needs with her first, and because I don’t always feel like making that effort, that places limits on my masturbation. Another limit I have placed on it is that if I have had a sexual release within two days prior, I can’t masturbate. That instantly limits me to at least every third day, even if I have met my first requirement. Finally, I shared all of this with my wife. She knows what I am doing, and how I go about it. That gives her the opportunity to meet my needs if she doesn’t want me doing that, and has resulted in a level of masturbation that I am very happy with. I can look myself in the mirror, and I no longer feel controlled by it, nor do I feel guilty for using it. I wont pretend that this will work for everyone, nor will I pretend to force my thoughts of views on anyone. I shared this because some here might be able to take parts of it to use in their own life. If masturbation causes you to feel ashamed or guilty, then you may not be able to make peace with it. That doesn’t make you wrong or anything, only different from me. In the end you alone have to account to your god and your life for how you live. Normal and healthy are very fluid terms when dealing with recovery and healing, so all I can say is if it makes you happy, go for it.

_________________________
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

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#28545 - 12/19/02 10:32 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Wow Zadok, that was an interesting analysis on your life. I'm really glad that the thread is continuing in a productive manner. Everytime I hear your stories it allows me to learn about myself.

It's interesting how we all used masturbation to drowned out other feelings. I found a vibrator when I was pretty young and boy-oh-boy did I like that machine. I felt like it was my secret toy. You know what I mean?

Anyway, I'm heading out of town this weekend so I will be MIA for a few days. I'm leaving for the airport right now but I wish I could be part of this very productive conversation.
Later,
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#28546 - 12/19/02 01:37 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Quote:
I always knew I was using sex to escape life, never really denied it. I always knew loosing control over it meant that it was a problem. From the start I knew, but where does a thirteen-year-old boy turn for help? My father was abusive, and I couldn’t talk to him. Forget talking to my friends, because they made fun of people who did that. And no way could I tell my mom what was happening. Basically, I felt isolated and trapped. I knew I had problems, but felt I couldn’t tell anyone. The solution, surrender to your fate of burning in hell, and just go on the best you can.
And the rest - as they say - is history !

Zadoc, thank you so much for that wonderful post.
( and all you other guys, this is a GOOD topic )

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#28547 - 12/19/02 01:49 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Zadok, that last post is one of the most thotful, well thot out common sense things about masturbation (and porn) that I've ever read anywhere! Thanks a lot man!

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#28548 - 12/19/02 02:16 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Lloydy
how come I know this, but can't get my head around doing it ?

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I can.t say that masturbating is bad but Love was so much better when I didn't masturbate daily.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there's a secret to this - will someone please share it with me.

Well I don,t know any secret all I can say is it just happened. I was so busy dealing with My 1st. week of being a survivor that I didn,t even think about masturbating.When my wife and I finnaly got around to lovemaking it had been 7 days. That time was such a great experence that I never thought about masturbating again until a few weeks ago.

One thing that has helped also is that I have worked with my wife to teach her other ways of providing me with MALE SEXUAL AROUSAL. I am sure that most of us have some bad throught about being frondaled by our preps, but when a love one does it to us it can be such an release Wife and I try to cuddle a few times during the week as we watch TV or listen to music. We have one simple rule I should never think that it will lead to lovemaking. Our cuddle sessions seem to be the release I need to get me by until we have the right moment to make love.
The more I think about this the hand jobs without climax is what keeps me from masturbating. Thanks for asking Lloydy
Muldoon

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#28549 - 12/19/02 02:37 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Cement Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 740
Loc: Southern California
Zadok - That is the best advice I have read here so far. And I have gotten a lot of good advice here.

Muldoon - I think you are my 'brother from another mother.' When I started to read your rpevious post, I thought I was reading my own. Literally. I stopped to see if I had misread and was just rereading a post I had written.

Dave - the apnea story resonates and your openness is a guide to me.

Wuamei - I am always thankful to you for your studied reading of what I write and your encouragement.

Sleepy - well, sleepy, what can I say, you started this wonderful thread anfd I think you know we share so much in the way of experience and feelings. Thanks.

and thank you to everyone here.

_________________________
And let the darkness fear our light.

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#28550 - 12/19/02 03:35 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
This thread is terrific. I have avoided even opening it. "Gee I wonder why that is?" At this point I'm still not ready to dig too deep in my muck again around this issue, so I'll stay on an intellectual level, a well honed defense tool. I don't think I've seen it here yet but in a world history class 25 years ago a teacher was describing the beliefs of the ancient Greeks. He mentioned in passing that the ancients believed that ejaculate contained miniscule (too tiny for the eye to see) complete human beings that didn't grow until they were in the womb of a woman. So to spill ones seed was murder. He said it is believed that this is where the notion of sin in connection with masterbation came from. I've not heard this anywhere else, but it took a ton of pressure off me because I knew better then the ancients what sperm contained. It cartainly was not the whole story of my experience w masterbation, but for now....


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#28551 - 12/19/02 04:40 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
JamesMichael Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 134
This is a hard topic to talk about.


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#28552 - 12/19/02 07:10 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I just read through this topic again, and Sleepy's first post is about the 'compulsion' that drives us to masturbate, not long after I make a crack about having an arm like Popeye.

And something else struck me then, I can remeber times when I have jacked off until I had cramp in my arm, my dick was sore, and I nearly had a heart attack

The pleasure was nil - but the compulsion was total, and I would carry on and on until I succeeded !

That's nothing at all to do with sex, relief or pleasure.
I suspect it's beating myself up ( literally ! ) to make myself feel .........???? I don't know what really - maybe 'better' than I was feeling before ?

It sure as hell dont work

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#28553 - 12/19/02 09:51 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
smp Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 3
Loc: Jerusalem, Israel
Everyone here is a strong and heroic man. I do not feel the least bit uncertain that each and every one of you has the complete ability to fully and completely recover from the abuses you have experienced.

It takes primarily one ingredient, with whatever seaonsings you prefer: An enthusiatic and burning desire and commitment to a 100% focus in your life on the value of meaning in life...With this tool alone you can replace all feelings of remorse, regret, confusion, lack of focus, and survivorship thinking with joy, fulfillment, satisfaction, happiness, and productivity.

Of course, as men we then learn to put this commitment into action, and to use all our intellect, emotions and our bodies for the pursuit and fulfillment of our lives.

It has been, will be, and is always and only up to each of us.

Smp


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#28554 - 12/19/02 09:53 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Well said SMP!

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#28555 - 12/19/02 10:52 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
SMP-

I just want to take this opportunity to welcome you. I am fascinated by a man who is a Computer Scientist, Yeshiva Student, and a Juggler!

To me, these represent a person who is fully grounded and engaged in the present, yet knows the value of history and tradition, and the wisdom they impart which can help us find our way safely and peacefully into the future .

And beyond all that, you juggle. Marvelous.

I especially appreciate your last post for the truth in it and the faith that you express in all of us and our abilities. It's nice to be reminded.

I think you have a point of view that will add greatly to our community here.

Again, Welcome.

Donald

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#28556 - 12/20/02 03:09 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
rax Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 75
Loc: Newark, CA
I wonder if anyone sees this the way I see it.
I see masturbation as a healthy release of sexual energy.

Given the options :
a) Watch porn, masturbate
Or
b) Go out, be a slut, get laid, re-enact abuse, and endanger my life

I'd choose "a." anyday.
I've been a slut, and it didnt make me happy.
And Im not ready for commitment until I figure out my own self. And I dont think I would want to deny myself the simple pleasure of self-sexual-release.

later,
rax


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#28557 - 12/20/02 03:26 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Hey Jeff (Zadok1), I was fascinated by your handling of the subject matter. No pun intended of course. I agree that excessive masturbation does potentially take away from intimacy with one's significant other. However, keeping up with the structured regiment of being allowed to indulge oneself that you have successfully fashioned for yourself would drive me round the proverbial bend. But hey, different strokes for different folks. And again, no pun intended. ;\)


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#28558 - 12/20/02 03:41 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
SMP
thank you for your words
Quote:
It takes primarily one ingredient, with whatever seaonsings you prefer: An enthusiatic and burning desire and commitment to a 100% focus in your life on the value of meaning in life
This is the hard thing for me to do,Give 100%. I know that it is with in me to do this but I have not got it done. At times I feel like I am opperating on 50%.It is no fun to just get by.

Waume
Quote:
Muldoon--cuddle sessions with my wife. She often asks for those. And DUH! the more I try it, the more I like it!
Just remember to let the wife have control as to how far it goes. Never push her for intercrouse or she may not what to begin the cuddle session.

Cement
Quote:
Muldoon - I think you are my 'brother from another mother.
It just shows you how valuable this web site is, two brothers can be 1000,s miles apart but going through the same things in thier lifes and being able to connect via MaleSurvivors. Thanks for being there for me
Love you guys Muldoon

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#28559 - 12/20/02 07:32 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
zadok1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
Andrew,
my guidelines have become so engrained that i dont even think of them now, they just happen. all i did basically was substitute a healthier cycle for the addictive one. see masturbation is a lot like smoking, part of it is ritual and habit. when that ritual and habit conflicts with what we feel is healthy and normal, it makes us feel ashamed and guilty. the important thing is to remove the shame and guilt. for some that may only be done with total abstaining, but i was able to feel good about myself again by simply changing how i was using it.

you will find that another behavior swap people use is these sites. where i was online diving into porn, i now find things to go to that i feel good about.

the time and energy we put into addiction/compulsion is still there, and it is important to fill that space when you cut something out. you swap a good behavior for a bad one if you will. a lot of therapists use this, but normally they sneak it in on you. sometimes they can be more open about it, but that just depends on the patient i suppose.

_________________________
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

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#28560 - 12/20/02 10:55 AM Re: compulsive masturbation
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Well said Jeff. Hey ... and if it works...


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#28561 - 12/20/02 05:33 PM Re: compulsive masturbation
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
I was thinking about posting my horrible masturbation story from when I was eleven years old. The problem is I remember too many details and I don't want perps to be able to see what my neighbor said and the way he manipulated me, even though I think they all must use the same tricks anyway. So what I decided to do was to join, and post my survivor story in the secure section. I think perps can still get to it if they want, But not without leaving an electronic trail connecting them to this web site, in case they try to copycat what my neighbor did.

I was thinking this way I can talk about it and not worry about spreading his sick methods.

Les_Angry


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