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#284272 - 04/18/09 07:24 PM Am I saved?
wojax Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Florida
Have any of you questioned you were in fact a true christian...Thinking about the lust that comes over me confuses Im old now and should be secure with my salvation I should know that i know ...and yet i still question..I know there is a price to pay for my sins..I know I will one day have to give an account for my actions or lack of...I do love the Lord..
I am able to find God in most odf the things I do ..right and wrong....I can see the end of this Life....
Gary

_________________________
Jer 7:23 ps 91:16

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#284285 - 04/18/09 08:13 PM Re: Am I saved? [Re: wojax]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Gary,
Salvation is not based on what you do or don't do. Salvation is based on what God has done for you. Yes there are consequences to the sins of this life. That is why he does not want us to sin. However, the ultimate price for sin was paid long ago for you sins past present and future. That paved the way for you to have a relationship with the God of this universe to love you and care for you. That does require a moral committment to attempt a moral life but the failures and sins that will come as we learn to walk with him in the spirit are all paid for.

If I choose to sin, Gary, my sin will be forgiven if I ask. The results of that sin in my health, or happiness will still be there unfortunately but he will be there with me to love me and bring me home through it all. There is a difference in Salvation which occurs as we ask for it and sanctification by which we become better people through his work in our lives which is an ongoing process and requires a constant state of fellowship with God to be successful.

That in my opinion is the short version but bottom line you are ok Gary. Now and forever.

Roger


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#284299 - 04/18/09 10:19 PM Re: Am I saved? [Re: Freedom49]
sojourn111 Offline


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 86
Loc: midwest
Gary,
You wrestle with Justification vs sanctification. We are justified by the sacrifice of Christ. As Paul says Christ lives in us, we are a temple of the Holy presence of God, we are grafted in and adopted as children. Christ is our 'elder brother', we are the focus of His love... despite what we have done but because of what He has offered with His life.

You see God knew this humanity would fail. Before the foundations of the Earth were set Christ was crucified, why plan for a savior. In the Garden we gained the knowledge of good & evil, as Lucifer said knowledge as a God...and man has struggled ever since to discern and rightly choose good from evil. We are children with a knowledge inside us that challenges us, it is more than we should or could have.

Gary we live in a world that shows us everything but God's face, tempts this shell we live in and begs us to walk away from His love. It cries out to us to doubt Him, to believe the world, the existence that toys with our hearts and minds. We are computers incapable of handling this software and data...and God through Christ offers a way for Him to be united with us. One in flesh is also one in Spirit in Christ.

Sanctification then is the process and relationship in which God transfers his heart and mind slowly into ours. Paul said I die daily, not I that lives yet Christ who lives within me... because He loves us. His presence grows in us despite our struggles and challenges as you mention.

Our spiritual existence in this torn and challenged body is for a moment and He promises much good life after this.
And you see he said, confess me before men, love me, do this in remembrance of me, love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind... the criminal crucified with Him, the women at the well, Saul the persecutor...and even I.

He didn't say be perfect, be this good, be that good, he just said be in Love with Him, give your life to Him and confess Him. You do... the rest is working itself out. Rest assured His word is steadfast. You have not denied Him nor shall He deny you.


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#284302 - 04/18/09 10:41 PM Re: Am I saved? [Re: sojourn111]
wes-b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 438
Loc: Western, Canada

Gary, my dear Brother.

At the risk of offending some...

I was once a Christian and now am best considered a Diest or a Thiest. My challenge was that I became an obsessive Christian and so horribly steeped in Dogma and Religiosity that I lost contact with God the Father. Today I know that that learned Rabbi, Joshua ben Joseph, at the cornerstone of the Christian faith came forth with a message of hope laid before mankind as Love and Forgiveness. My faith, when I am connected, carries me in the paths of Love and Forgivness and when I am disconnected I fall to intolerance, hatred and indifference... My God gave me the double edged sword of free will, for which I am truly grateful.

God, as I know God, loves me unconditionally and his love is unlimited, he lovingly gives me all the forgiveness I need for myself and others, every time I ask for it. My God loves me as much when I am at my worst as when I am at my best.

Warm hugs from a happy Deist.

Your Brother Wes

_________________________
Happy to be a recovering survivor. :-)

Continuing to meet more of my fellows as I "Trudge the Road of Happy Destiny".

My Story, 1st pass

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#284312 - 04/18/09 11:09 PM Re: Am I saved? [Re: wojax]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Quote:
a true christian


gary, i have to confess that i am not sure what this means. who creates the criteria for judging who or what is a true christian and who/what isn't. isn't that really up to the individual to say what their relationship with christ is?

i know you are not writing to argue which perspective is more or less valid than another. but what is see is a worry that god has reduced you to one facet of you being: your sexual nature. it's almost as if there is a belief there that sexual 'sin' is the supreme deal breaker, and cancels out any and all of your greatest efforts, and your highest achievement as a human person.

haven't you suffered enough from csa and from cancer? isn't the miracle of recovery from it enough of a sign that god is working in your life, affirming you and ensuring that you are indeed in his good graces today?

what is it about us survivors that we can't seem to let go of the idea of our unworthiness, and why do we have this tendency to keep wanting to reject all god's wonderful embraces by constantly measuring ourselves by our imagined failures instead of by the ways we have made this world a better place, a place where love can truly grow and thrive.

you have brought love and light into the world; you've opened yourself to reflect christ's spirit, and you have done that wonderfully. nothing more is required.

just some thoughts that came up,

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#284325 - 04/19/09 12:01 AM Re: Am I saved? [Re: Sans Logos]
Marinan Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/03/07
Posts: 329
Yeah, I question about whether Im saved, usually at Night time.


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#284452 - 04/19/09 08:46 PM Re: Am I saved? [Re: Marinan]
Shadow+Walker Offline


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 287
Loc: desolate foggy nights, USA
Gary,
As you are a Christian, I point your attention to Holy Scripture. "Though my Father and my Mother forsake me, the Lord will recieve me." (Psalm 27:10) Read also in Romans chapter 8 that nothing can separate us from the love of God. Nothing can separate us: not famine (going hungry); not peril (being in danger); trouble or hardship (abuse and suffering); nakedness (which is a very real experience and a core issue for us survivors of SA); not even death. His side of the bargain in Christ Jesus is still good. Trust in Him and fear not, my Brother.

Peace+
Shadow+Walker

_________________________
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, love and self discipline. (St Paul, 2Timothy 1:7) NIV

Check out a cool song by a hot band..."Unbreakable" by Fireflight: official video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWRJAHaOrYg

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#284524 - 04/20/09 12:51 AM Re: Am I saved? [Re: Shadow+Walker]
Tedure Offline


Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 203
Loc: Utah
Gary,
Christ himself set the standard and He repeated it four times in the Gospels and yet many of us miss it. It is truly a hidden treasure that I would like to share.

We first need to combine two accounts of Christ dealings with Mary. The first is recorded in Mark 14:3-9 when Jesus is chastising the apostles for getting after Mary for anointing Him with the costly ointment. “Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her?... She has done what she could…(combine this with Luke’s account)…Her sins, which are many, are forgiven: for she loved much… (Luke 7:47)

This is the standard of the church: “Do the best you can and Love much.” President Hinckley added a word and said, “Do the very best you can and love much.”

How do you know if you have done your very best?

You will have a feeling of PEACE. Remember Peace is the only feeling Satan can not duplicate and Christ is the Prince of Peace. “My peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled neither let it be afraid.”

I know this is true.

I also know that someone else’s best may not be the same as mine. Some days my best is not so good. Some days I stumble. Some days I go backwards. I lose my focus –I hit the rocks. I do not give up even though like Mary, my sins are many. He has not given up on me.

“Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands” (Isa 49:16) “I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” (Matt 28:20)

God will bless you,
Your brother Ted Ure

_________________________
When you change the way you look at things the things you look at change.

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#284559 - 04/20/09 09:23 AM Re: Am I saved? [Re: Tedure]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Gary,

I have "heard" the Spirit of God in your written "voice" so many times. First Corinth tells us

Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. (verse 3)

Have you said (and means with all your being) "Jesus is Lord"?
If so, you do it by the Holy Spirit, and if He indwells you - that kinda proves you belong to God.

AND ...

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38,39)

I'd say your doubt can be put to rest. I also know, being human, we do second-guess ourselves and are pulled away by our own longings and desires - but I beleive I've heard your heart. Between that and the promises of God - I'd say your reservation is confirmed.

Read a little more of Romans and rest in the arms of the Creator of Heavens. You are His - and I, for one, look forward to the day we meet face to face in glory.

M

Tedure - thanks, that passage in Isaiah is one of my all-time favorites. I believe He carved our names in the palms of his hands using the nails of the cross...


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#284574 - 04/20/09 11:02 AM Re: Am I saved? [Re: MarkK]
expom Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 123
Loc: Australia
Hello Gary and greetings from Australia,
Have you had a go at trying to work out where the feelings of doubt come from? What do you do to "test the spirit"? What I know for sure is like this. Sometimes God puts questions inside us and sometimes it's satan's crew. How can I tell the difference? If it is God causing me to question things then it is always always in a positive way that encourages us to be closer to Him.

If it is satan's crew that is causing the questioning to occur then it always always leads to feelings of worthlessness, distance and seperation from God that feels as though it is permanent.

What's going on inside Gary?

Sometimes it is the fear of the moral consequences of what we believe. Those things that God is asking us to put in order so that we wouldn't be ashamed if Christ came back at that precise moment and watched what we were doing.

Tucked away just a couple of verses before Revelation starts, Jude 24 and 25 tells us that Jesus takes great delight in presenting us to His heavenly Father and when He does that He says "Father God I am so pleased to present to You My faultless brother Gary".

If that's good enough for Jesus then its good enough for me. And it is worth remembering, too, that the more time we spend at the feet of Jesus, the less time we have for going off and doing things that would upset or offend Him.

Bless you, bro, and hope it helps.

EXpom

_________________________
I endured all my yesterdays. I prevail in all of my todays. I exercise my right to be able to enjoy my tomorrows. I choose not to do it alone.

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#284579 - 04/20/09 11:09 AM Re: Am I saved? [Re: MarkK]
Anarion Cti Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 157
Loc: Eastern US
Thanks for reminding me of these wonderful truths, MarkK.

_________________________
"Thou, O Lord, are the shield about me;
You're my helper,
You're the one who lifts up my head."
"Whom have I in heaven or earth but You?"

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#284676 - 04/20/09 10:00 PM Re: Am I saved? [Re: Anarion Cti]
pseudo Offline


Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Wisconsin
Gary,

As a former born-again, I struggled with a LOT of that kind of doubt. "If I'm really a new creation, and behold all things are made new, then why do I still have these same sinful attitudes about [fill in the blank]?" Whether it's lust, or any other sin.

The bottom line is, no matter what creed you believe (or don't believe), we're all human. We've got biology and experience-driven habit working against our drive to be pure.

If you've been a compulsive donut-eater your whole life, and one day decide to quit, of course you're going to struggle when you see that box on the breakroom table. Doesn't mean you're bad, just means you've eaten lots of donuts in your life. It takes time and persistence to get over it. Each time you say NO when your body says YES, that's one step toward healing. And if you give in and say YES once, it's not the end of the world. We all mess up. God forgives us. You get back up and get back on the "road of happy destiny."

Also, watch out for your mind playing tricks on you. Happens to me a lot. It convinces me that what I believe isn't really true, that it doesn't really matter, and I can go back to my old ways. That's the addict/flesh talking.

If you want Biblical reinforcement, read and meditate on Ephesians and Romans.

ps

_________________________
The sun has left the sky, now you can close your eyes, leave all the world behind until tomorrow.

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#284836 - 04/21/09 09:42 PM Re: Am I saved? [Re: pseudo]
sojourn111 Offline


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 86
Loc: midwest
PSEUDO,
Did you have to go there ... DONUTS! I have a box of them sitting on my kitchen table that my enabling mother in law brought last night. I am eating one while I sit here and watch Biggest Loser... MAN!! Ad I feel bad for the women that gained 1 lb and did all that work.

Seriously, I like how you stated that, especially the fact that the mind does play the games with us. Gary you are an awesome person and please listen to what PS has said. The struggle is not going to lose it for you, the fact that you struggle is proof of your heart. Aspiring agaionst all odds towards what you believe.


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#284857 - 04/22/09 12:01 AM Re: Am I saved? [Re: sojourn111]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
I've been following this thread with some interest. There's something about it that bothered something within myself. I finally decided what it was/is.

I grew up in a very conservative denomination. This question was always high on the list of things talked about in the discussion groups before church. It was high on the list of things being preached about from the pulpit. It was high on the things I worried about in the wee hours of the night when the evil of my ways pressed in on me.

Now, all these years later, I realize what a load of crap it all was. The "evil" ways I thought were my decisions were not mine at all. I was being SEXUALLY ABUSED. I had no choice in that. It was not my evil.

Now, I will agree that there are things I do that I am responsible for. Some of them are wrong and do damage to "my neighbor". For those I am responsible to my neighbor and my God.

Now, to my point... As humans our tendancy is to spend waaaayyyy too much time worrying about the being "saved" and way to little time worrying about relationship. IMO. Has anyone here ever considered the way the religious elite of Christ's day acted? They demanded perfect obedience to the very smallest of un>
_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#284865 - 04/22/09 12:38 AM Re: Am I saved? [Re: WalkingSouth]
sojourn111 Offline


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 86
Loc: midwest
That is perfectly stated and absolutely coorect.

"Better spent developing relationship with that Creator"

Perfect!


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#285439 - 04/26/09 08:34 PM Re: Am I saved? [Re: sojourn111]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11027
Loc: Denver, CO
Gary,

What a good question. I have found I struggle from time to time, perhaps the flesh versus the spirit. It was only in the last few years I started to figure out the drive behind the temptations. In my head, what makes the temptation understandable still doesn't make it any less bearable. I personally hope my Father takes into account the cause behind the temptations. It's a bitter pill.

Andy

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#287437 - 05/14/09 03:04 AM Re: Am I saved? [Re: wojax]
Logger Offline


Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5
Loc: USA
Gary, I have in fact questioned whether I am a true Christian-- most of my life in fact. This questioning has led to a spiritual journey, and at long last, an answer. The short answer is, I'm not Christian at all-- I'm Muslim. Only Islam proved itself to be consistent with my internal belief system. On the question of personal redemption, Islam is different than Christianity in that rather than Jesus having died on the cross for our sins, we are responsible for our own. On judgment day, we bear witness against ourselves-- no one is allowed to intercede. Basically, we get what we deserve, not an atom's weight more or less. Our good deeds are weighed against our bad. Both religions (Islam and Christianity) enjoin the good and forbid the bad. Both believe in life after death. I hope I haven't offended anyone, I'm just trying to throw out a different viewpoint. Take care-- Logger


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