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#28412 - 02/25/04 07:45 AM By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
It’s been sometime since I’ve posted anything controversial. But a few recent posts have gotten me thinking and probably not the ones that you may be thinking of. I would like to start off by stating that I am in no way sorry for my views, I don’t care if it’s taken the wrong way by anyone.

SA is bloody unfair but there is nothing, absolutely nothing you or anyone can do to “make it better” it just is, and we have to live with it. We have to deal with it, and no matter what way we choose to deal with it, there are going to be consequences for that choice. We all paid for, or are paying a price for being here. I’ll start with the most obvious one, as much as we pretend it is not so, it is shameful to be a SA victim. Society will never see us as “normal” people as long as we are open about being “damaged goods,” and do not take on a proper air of shame. So that is my first category of a survivor paying a price, the outcast.

My second category is also an obvious one. The survivor who denies it and stuffs it all inside to the point where he can no longer feel anything. For him life is nothing more then going through the motions.

The third, the overachiever, really an extension of category two. He tries to undo SA with money, positions and women.

The fourth, the underachiever, his only goal is to be invisible.

Category five, the overt addict. Drugs, alcohol, food and sex.

Category six, the covert addict. Therapy, Religion, Twelve-step and MS.

The seventh category, the emotional leach. Unable to function with out an increasing level of drama and sympathy.

The eight category, the cynic.

Number nine, the crusader. Ignores his real feelings in a vain attempt to fix the world.

Ten, the vengeful. An extension of the ninth category. He believes every thing will be better if he can only find a way to get revenge.

And finally eleven, the defeated, living but already dead.

I’ve made my choice, I’m an eight trying to be a one. There is no measure of success in the survivor game only to be happy with the choices we make, for me being a cynical outcast from society is an acceptable price for my freedom.


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#28413 - 02/25/04 08:54 AM Re: By the Numbers
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Brian,

That is an impressive list of labels. Is there a diagnostic instrument that can help me place myself on the continuum of survivorhood? I'm pushing 4 digits on my post count, and I'm working two 12 step groups. But I write letters to newspapers, do volunteer work, and will speak to other non-survivor volunteers later this year. Maybe I'm some almagamation of 2, 4, 6, 8, and (Damn they were all even!), 9. I think I could fit better in the scheme if there were some mention of fear in there somewhere.

Quote:
for me being a cynical outcast from society is an acceptable price for my freedom.
Freedom from what?

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#28414 - 02/25/04 09:29 AM Re: By the Numbers
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Brian:

Quote:
There is no measure of success in the survivor game only to be happy with the choices we make,
That is a powerful sentence. I would only add that we must forgive ourselves for all the shitty coping skills until we thought that what happened to us was a really big deal.

It matters not what others think. It is only inside that matters.

On your scale I would say that I am all over the map. I even get to one on occasion. But I guess that is me and I can live with that.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#28415 - 02/25/04 11:32 AM Re: By the Numbers
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Brian, thank you for the provocative posting.
It could only have been written by someone leaning heavily towards a category 8 type personality, or perhaps someone with his tongue planted firmly in his cheek. I'm not sure I see things in such black and white terms. Maybe we are a little of all those things at different times, survivors or not. I would even suggest that people who have not been abused at all, are all those things at different times and to varying degrees. ... Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#28417 - 02/25/04 01:23 PM Re: By the Numbers
Brayton Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Minneapolis
Brian,

I agree that the past is unchangeable. I believe that I can only change my preceptions of it and I have started to do so. I believe that I can, however, learn to have control over my present-time choices, more and more as I work on it.

That's what I'm finding out about myself anyway.

I am working toward the day when surviving as the central aspect of my life will end and it will be simply a part of it

I believe that that will be a time when I can take joy in life's simple pleasures and not feel guilty...a time when I will like myself and will be self-confident and so will also be able to be in functional relationships of all kinds with people.

I know that its relatively easy for me to say that today because I am feeling better than has been usual lately.

First I was a victim, now I am a survivor, in the future I will be healed but aware of my past and remembering to honor that which I have experienced and survived.

That's my hope, anyway, so I suppose I don't fit in Category 8.

Brett.

_________________________
Sometimes, things just won't work the way we want them to.

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#28418 - 02/25/04 07:08 PM Re: By the Numbers
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
Jake,

You are only defeated if you give up. You are here getting support, so I doubt that you have given up.

Hang in there,
Bill

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#28419 - 02/25/04 07:16 PM Re: By the Numbers
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
Okay, I fall in four of these categories. But the number of categories I fit in is decreasing - partially because of #6, my addiction to MS. A year ago I would have also fit into #2 and #11 (aren't these about the same).

As I have cataloged these deficencies , I am able to work on them. Can't take them all at once, I'd pop like an overinflated balloon.

Bill

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#28420 - 02/25/04 08:09 PM Re: By the Numbers
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Brian
I agree with a lot of what you say, in priciple.

But there are a lot of grey areas as well, I certainly think that this -
Quote:
as much as we pretend it is not so, it is shameful to be a SA victim.
is only "as much as we allow it to be shameful" There is a lot of latitude there that you don't give credit for.

This is spot on, just so true.-
Quote:
There is no measure of success in the survivor game only to be happy with the choices we make,
This is sad, but a fact. BUT, it is possible to fight your way out of this -
Quote:
And finally eleven, the defeated, living but already dead.
I read into your "11 stages" that you perceive a climate of "victim thinking" that it's all to easy to fall into, and begin to rely upon. And I agree that it is easy to find a level that's 'acceptable' and stay there ( some might say wallow there )
But if that's what it takes for that individual to 'survive' is that such a bad thing ?

Or is giving someone who appears to be 'stuck' at one particualar stage a kick on the butt a bad thing ?

Surviving, and even better - moving forward, does require regular 'kicks on the butt'; and posts like this should encourage each of us as an individual to look hard at where we are, then kick our own butts !

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#28421 - 02/25/04 09:10 PM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
I think it was Knute Rockne who said “character is who you are in the dark” or maybe it was “character is who you are when no one is looking.” And it could have been Vince Lombardi who said it but Knute Rockne sticks in my mind, but that is not the point.

Who are you in the dark?


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#28422 - 02/25/04 10:07 PM Re: By the Numbers
Texas_Mike Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 135
Loc: San Antonio, Texas-The Lone-St...
B-

I thought it was shameful 4 years; embarrassed; humiliated ; I was down-beating myself up - wasn't human-but always climbed back from the rock pile-today I'm in a kick ass mood-even told a pal about my shit- today--------------------BFD--------I can talk about it and stand tall-look you in the eye-nothing to be ashamed about, B.
it's a good day-----better tomorrow.

_________________________
"Passion, excitement, and confidence are the important medicines that you need every day"

Run 2 Live-Live 2 Run

Best,
"The Desert Runner" Mike

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#28423 - 02/25/04 10:46 PM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
well, what you, I or we think isn't the issue here. Our points of view are not relevant. We are not "normal".

When was the last time you saw a post like this:


Hi, I’m new here. I’m new to this whole survivor thing. I was doing fine until last year when I let it slip about my abuse. You know how people are once they find out, well you know. I don’t want to be hear, but my wife insists on it. You guys know how wives are “are you sure you aren’t rushing your recovery” and the ever popular “take as much time as you need, no one expects you to just get over it” then my boss found out and won’t even let me even think about doing anything stressful, how do you handle all the pampering anyway? Yeah my boss, I don’t know what to do about him. I went in to tell him I was fine, he wouldn’t let me get a word in edgewise “Take all the time you need, if you need a few months to deal with the abuse, you don’t need to worry the paychecks will keep coming.” Then he handed me the company’s list of survivor support groups. You guys know what it’s like trying to pick a group, there are just so many of them, even if you just take the male groups the choices are mind blowing. It’s all to much I’ve been reading through the post and I see you guys are all going through the same with your wives to. She drags me to gay bars telling me I must “explore my sexuality.” The worst thing is when she and my parents do it. When they do that I go in and head out the back just in case they are watching to make sure I stay, then maybe go to a movie to pass the time. Then I’ll call home and say I was with a decorator named Lance. Now I’m getting pressure from all my friends, family and co-workers to march in the survivor day parade, and I just hate crowds. The fireworks are nice and the kids get the day off from school so we can do something as a family, but all that marching, hardly seems worth it. Well thanks for letting me vent I’m sure you’ve heard it all before.


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#28424 - 02/25/04 11:34 PM Re: By the Numbers
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
too funny...and true. A.

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#28425 - 02/25/04 11:37 PM Re: By the Numbers
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
I don't think I've ever seen a post like that.

It wouldn't be normal. \:D

Thanks, I needed this thread.

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#28426 - 02/26/04 09:00 AM Re: By the Numbers
Texas_Mike Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 135
Loc: San Antonio, Texas-The Lone-St...
great post..

you have your shit together... you have a great sense of humor. that's good. very positive.

gay bars are fun-----great tunes/lights-you know,a lot of straights enjoy these places....good 2 steppin' music. so whats' normal today-----------it'll be different next year.

_________________________
"Passion, excitement, and confidence are the important medicines that you need every day"

Run 2 Live-Live 2 Run

Best,
"The Desert Runner" Mike

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#28427 - 02/26/04 09:14 AM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
the 2-step in a gay bar, only in Texas I guess.


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#28428 - 02/26/04 10:03 AM Re: By the Numbers
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
I feel lucky. My wife is as understanding and supportive as I could have ever dreamt. Sure she doesn’t know what it is to have lived through it in my shoes, but she shows the compassion and caring that I’ve always longed for.

In the dark, I finally like who I am, but I am not fully where I need to be. Let’s face, I don’t think we can ever be totally freed from our past, but then no one can. What we can strive for is a fulfilling and complete life, one where we feel happy and content.

I’ve fought long and hard to get rid of all the labels I’ve hung around my neck. The outside world doesn’t think about or judge us all that often, only when it hits them in the face. Ultimately, it is how we judge ourselves that matters most. I do not have to be anything. I can be my self. Is that a normal person? I don’t know. I guess that depends on who’s writing the definitions. Certainly I am a survivor whether that is normal or not, and just as surely that will be with me the rest of my life.

This is a great insightful thread. I can see myself fitting several of the types you mention. Some good, some not so much. Being a cynic at times, a crusader at others, I guess we all do what we have to in order to live with this. Take care, and treat yourself kindly.

jeff

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#28429 - 02/26/04 10:03 AM Re: By the Numbers
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
I feel lucky. My wife is as understanding and supportive as I could have ever dreamt. Sure she doesn’t know what it is to have lived through it in my shoes, but she shows the compassion and caring that I’ve always longed for.

In the dark, I finally like who I am, but I am not fully where I need to be. Let’s face, I don’t think we can ever be totally freed from our past, but then no one can. What we can strive for is a fulfilling and complete life, one where we feel happy and content.

I’ve fought long and hard to get rid of all the labels I’ve hung around my neck. The outside world doesn’t think about or judge us all that often, only when it hits them in the face. Ultimately, it is how we judge ourselves that matters most. I do not have to be anything. I can be my self. Is that a normal person? I don’t know. I guess that depends on who’s writing the definitions. Certainly I am a survivor whether that is normal or not, and just as surely that will be with me the rest of my life.

This is a great insightful thread. I can see myself fitting several of the types you mention. Some good, some not so much. Being a cynic at times, a crusader at others, I guess we all do what we have to in order to live with this. Take care, and treat yourself kindly.

jeff

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#28430 - 02/26/04 11:00 AM Re: By the Numbers
Texas_Mike Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 135
Loc: San Antonio, Texas-The Lone-St...
your a winner-----stamp that...

_________________________
"Passion, excitement, and confidence are the important medicines that you need every day"

Run 2 Live-Live 2 Run

Best,
"The Desert Runner" Mike

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#28431 - 02/26/04 11:20 AM Re: By the Numbers
Sinking Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 577
Loc: Took my ball and went home.
Your cynicism doesn't seem hearfelt, in fact it's kind of cute, with an air of humor.

The categories you've pinned on us all make sense, sort of.

But what about the one where the boy, full of guilt, fear and shame, is growing into a man who can stand tall and proud because he's finally found the gumption to tell his dirty secret and deal with is past, regardless of the consequences?

You forget one of the most important lessons that we should all keep in mind; The shame does not belong to us, the victims. It belongs to the monsters who are evil enough to hurt children.

Because we might be viewed as 'damaged goods' does not necessarily carry the tag-line of shame along with it. What it does is explain to our loved ones why we act the way we act.

The revelation that we were damaged (that word really doesn't do justice to what was done to us, more like; exploited, used, hurt, seduced, abandoned) only helps to bring forth the truth of who we really are. And isn't that all anyone is looking for here? The truth?

Your categories could go on until infinity because, despite our similarities, we are all different, we were all hurt in different ways, we all learned to cope in different ways and we will all heal, or not, in our own different ways.


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#28432 - 02/26/04 11:37 AM Re: By the Numbers
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
I am a little uncomfortable with the term ‘damaged’ goods as it relates to SA survivors. I feel like it is granting the perpetrators a power that isn’t theirs; that being the power to ‘damage’ or cause a child to be less than perfect. We are not ‘damaged’ goods, nor is anyone, male or female, child or adult, ‘less than’ just because they had the misfortune to be assaulted in some form. Have the assaults caused us grief? Yes. But that doesn’t make us any less beautiful, any less worthy, any less perfect in the eyes of those who love us. A.

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#28433 - 02/26/04 11:53 AM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
A-
That is a beautiful sentiment, it’s also wishful thinking (to put as nicely as I possibly can) the mainstream attitude is still “if you can’t suck it up, then there is something wrong with you.” Look, I’m not talking about how we should view ourselves , just the hard reality of how others view us. It would be nice to be able to change that, but realistically that’s not going to happen.


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#28434 - 02/26/04 12:13 PM Re: By the Numbers
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Brian,
Quote:
Look, I’m not talking about how we should view ourselves , just the hard reality of how others view us.
What the hell is the mainstream? Who appointed someone else to tell you or me that we are not normal? Why should you or I give a damn what they think?

There are "others" with many strange views.
  • "No Irish need apply."
  • "Catholics are unpatriotic."
  • "Abuse survivors are perps."

There are other weird ideas out there, too, about gays and non-Christians and women and left-handed people, ad infinitum.

I could exhaust myself trying to find all the strange views that don't make sense to me and conspicuously demonstrate how "abnormal" I am. That wouldn't help me anymore than finding the categories I do fit in your scheme above or any other set of labels, even the ones I get from professional therapists.

All that will help me is my own continual decision to act in my enlightened self interest, to better my condition for myself and those around me without violating the rights of others. If doing that makes me something other than a statistical average of the general population, then I'm glad I'm not normal.
Quote:
I am in no way sorry for my views
Ditto.

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#28435 - 02/26/04 12:30 PM Re: By the Numbers
LupinIII Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 156
Interesting post, but you care more about what mainstream society thinks than I do. I also wonder what the hell is normal these days anyway....

I also disagree about the shame issue. Do I feel some amounts of shame right now? Yup. Do I feel as much shame as I did a week ago? Nope. I disagree about the fact that I shold always feel ashamed about the SA. I will get through my shame, turn it over, and it will not be a part of my life any longer.


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#28436 - 02/26/04 12:34 PM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
“All that will help me is my own continual decision to act in my enlightened self interest, to better my condition for myself and those around me without violating the rights of others”

Define a right?

Discrimination against male survivors is viewed as a right by many people. Try finding help through your local public health organizations. Try and put up a flyer for a “male only” support group on your local library’s peg board.


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#28437 - 02/26/04 12:43 PM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
Ok people go back and read it again. I never once said you should feel ashamed only that society at large expects us too. Helps if you read before commenting :rolleyes:

And in my experience humor is the best way to illustrate a point


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#28438 - 02/26/04 12:45 PM Re: By the Numbers
Sinking Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 577
Loc: Took my ball and went home.
Brian - Now you're just trying to be argumentative.

My therpaist is through a local rape crisis center that is state funded. And, while few resources for men exist, they are growing, in part because we have been courageous enough to come forward.

I have been absolutely astounded bby the compassion I've received from people, not only close friends and family, but from attorneys and even people in law enforcement, people who are more jaded and cynical even than yourself.

Try to lose the shame you feel. Try to stop projecting it onto the rest of us. Society seems to be changing, through learning and understanding the devestation CSA on boys causes. There is compassion, you're just not looking in the right places, but I suspect you and your cynical self may be choosing not to see it.


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#28439 - 02/26/04 01:16 PM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
When and where did I say I was ashamed? My county mental health does not think male SA is a real issue, not a argument, a fact. The Sparks Library conceders the idea of a male SA support group sexist and against there policy. If you found help in your comity then I am very happy for you, I have not.

And just out of curiosity how was I “projecting” anything? Thus far the only real argument that anyone has presented is “Is there a diagnostic instrument that can help me place myself on the community of survivorhood?” pointing out that there is no real way to externally gage a survivor.

From my point of view I’ve seen a’lot of stubborn deffince of the groups you seem to be in. Category six for the most part. Except for Jake who has missed applied Category eleven to himself (en eleven would not bother coming here) it’s easy for me to pick categories for you. But as other have correctly pointed out, what I the outside observer thinks doesn’t matter. I'm just pointing out what I see.


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#28440 - 02/26/04 01:45 PM Re: By the Numbers
Sinking Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 577
Loc: Took my ball and went home.
But you don't see me, or know me at all. You are generalizing us all from your limited observations.

You are projecting shame upon the rest of us by insisting that there is a shameful stigma attached to being abused as a child. I am telling you from my own experience that the shameful stigma you speak of (and continue to insist exists) is not what I've encountered. I am sorry you have, but that is your experience, not mine so please stop trying to convince me, us that this is the way all of society treats and views victims of sexual abuse.


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#28441 - 02/26/04 01:52 PM Re: By the Numbers
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
try finding help through your local public health organizations. Try and put up a flyer for a “male only” support group on your local library’s peg board.
Brian,

I'm up to the challenge.

I'll be at therapy tonight in another weekly session brought to me by the local health department, which incidentally runs a 24 hour crisis line. I've been going since August or September, at no cost to me outside what I pay in local taxes.

I could put up a flyer at the library, but there are already a couple male only groups in the area. I found them when I went looking for the crisis center last summer.

I go on weekends to SIA, and there's another meeting during the week that simply conflicts with my elementary school homework helping privileges as a father. One of the other men from the weekend meeting has attended the weeknight meeting, and I believe he may have told me it was a men's only group, but I'm not positive.

I got an extra copy of the retreat registration form in my members' mailing yesterday. I have it with me now to take to my T tonight.

I've worn my MaleSurvivor T-shirt from the MN conference out in public, grocery shopping, bookstore, Home Depot. Never got any snide comments or noticed any unfriendly looks from the shopping public. I intend to wear it when I do the 3K walk to Stop The Silence (there's no way I'll be able to run 6k!) in DC less than two months from now.

Maybe I'm the wrong guy for your argument. My wife says she feels like a freak when I speak Irish to my kids in public. I figure since I don't know the native language (Algonquin? Cherokee? Not really sure around here.) then I'll speak the one that's mine, thank you very much. I made a point of wearing my Mets hat the whole ride through Georgia, to and from Florida with the kids a few years back. (I wear it for every trip to Philly, too, as well as at the first game in Camden Yards, Baltimore. Remember 1969!) I don't give a damn what they think about how I sound or look or what I've lived through or how I will live today.

I took your categories as a joke, and I really enjoyed your atypical "survivor's first post." Like I said earlier, no mention of fear, so I really can't take it too seriously. Who am I in the dark? Sometimes I'm a scared little boy wishing he didn't hurt so much, wondering what will happen next. There is no shame in that. The fear is as real as the memories, the scars inside and out. But so long as I don't let it stop me from living and loving, I need not feel shame. So long as I do continuously make (and re-make, and re-make, as needed) the decision to better my life, I can feel good about my spirit.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#28442 - 02/26/04 01:55 PM Re: By the Numbers
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
jus' wondering.... bet that most people, non-survivors included, could probably fit into one the categories. I suspect that categorizing people, and many of us do it, makes it easier for us to label and push them aside, out of sight, out of mind. Sad. .. Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#28443 - 02/26/04 02:01 PM Re: By the Numbers
LupinIII Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 156
Brian,

I could argue with you all day about this but what's the point. You seem to want to argue (hell you started this post by blowing the ol 'I don't care what people think' trumpet)and frankly that wont help me at all.

With that in mind I have only one thing left to say...LET'S GO METS!!!


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#28444 - 02/26/04 02:12 PM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
When you get right down to it there are only two kinds of people in the world. Those people who divide the world up into two groups, and those who don’t.


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#28445 - 02/26/04 02:41 PM Re: By the Numbers
Brayton Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Minneapolis
I think that the categories we make up are largely inaccurate and arbitrary. I think they just make it easier for people to talk about other people without really having to get to know them as individuals, too complex to pigeonhole.

_________________________
Sometimes, things just won't work the way we want them to.

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#28446 - 02/26/04 04:52 PM Re: By the Numbers
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
In the dark - I sleep soundly now.

And when I've told people about my past I've never yet had any reaction other than 'good' - ok that ranges from "oh shit, that must have been bad ?" and moving on swiftly, but I take that as someone who just doesn't know what to say or do, I don't take it as 'get away from me you perv !" right through to long, empathic conversations with the unlikliest of people.

I'm not denying that there are people who treat Survivors as "damaged goods" and I'll likely meet them sometime. But they aren't my problem really, the problem is theirs. All I have to do is move on.
I know it's different if friends or family treat you as damaged, but I think I would distance myself from them if I felt I had too for my benefit.

Call it retreating or whatever, but lifes too short for me to worry about people like that.

Maybe the British reserve isn't the reality it's made out to be ? I have experienced nothing but good responses so far.

And at a push I'll admit to Six, with mitigating circumstances ( or should that be diminshed responsibility ? ) ;\) \:D

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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