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#28433 - 02/26/04 11:53 AM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
A-
That is a beautiful sentiment, it’s also wishful thinking (to put as nicely as I possibly can) the mainstream attitude is still “if you can’t suck it up, then there is something wrong with you.” Look, I’m not talking about how we should view ourselves , just the hard reality of how others view us. It would be nice to be able to change that, but realistically that’s not going to happen.


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#28434 - 02/26/04 12:13 PM Re: By the Numbers
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Brian,
Quote:
Look, I’m not talking about how we should view ourselves , just the hard reality of how others view us.
What the hell is the mainstream? Who appointed someone else to tell you or me that we are not normal? Why should you or I give a damn what they think?

There are "others" with many strange views.
  • "No Irish need apply."
  • "Catholics are unpatriotic."
  • "Abuse survivors are perps."

There are other weird ideas out there, too, about gays and non-Christians and women and left-handed people, ad infinitum.

I could exhaust myself trying to find all the strange views that don't make sense to me and conspicuously demonstrate how "abnormal" I am. That wouldn't help me anymore than finding the categories I do fit in your scheme above or any other set of labels, even the ones I get from professional therapists.

All that will help me is my own continual decision to act in my enlightened self interest, to better my condition for myself and those around me without violating the rights of others. If doing that makes me something other than a statistical average of the general population, then I'm glad I'm not normal.
Quote:
I am in no way sorry for my views
Ditto.

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#28435 - 02/26/04 12:30 PM Re: By the Numbers
LupinIII Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 156
Interesting post, but you care more about what mainstream society thinks than I do. I also wonder what the hell is normal these days anyway....

I also disagree about the shame issue. Do I feel some amounts of shame right now? Yup. Do I feel as much shame as I did a week ago? Nope. I disagree about the fact that I shold always feel ashamed about the SA. I will get through my shame, turn it over, and it will not be a part of my life any longer.


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#28436 - 02/26/04 12:34 PM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
“All that will help me is my own continual decision to act in my enlightened self interest, to better my condition for myself and those around me without violating the rights of others”

Define a right?

Discrimination against male survivors is viewed as a right by many people. Try finding help through your local public health organizations. Try and put up a flyer for a “male only” support group on your local library’s peg board.


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#28437 - 02/26/04 12:43 PM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
Ok people go back and read it again. I never once said you should feel ashamed only that society at large expects us too. Helps if you read before commenting :rolleyes:

And in my experience humor is the best way to illustrate a point


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#28438 - 02/26/04 12:45 PM Re: By the Numbers
Sinking Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 577
Loc: Took my ball and went home.
Brian - Now you're just trying to be argumentative.

My therpaist is through a local rape crisis center that is state funded. And, while few resources for men exist, they are growing, in part because we have been courageous enough to come forward.

I have been absolutely astounded bby the compassion I've received from people, not only close friends and family, but from attorneys and even people in law enforcement, people who are more jaded and cynical even than yourself.

Try to lose the shame you feel. Try to stop projecting it onto the rest of us. Society seems to be changing, through learning and understanding the devestation CSA on boys causes. There is compassion, you're just not looking in the right places, but I suspect you and your cynical self may be choosing not to see it.


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#28439 - 02/26/04 01:16 PM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
When and where did I say I was ashamed? My county mental health does not think male SA is a real issue, not a argument, a fact. The Sparks Library conceders the idea of a male SA support group sexist and against there policy. If you found help in your comity then I am very happy for you, I have not.

And just out of curiosity how was I “projecting” anything? Thus far the only real argument that anyone has presented is “Is there a diagnostic instrument that can help me place myself on the community of survivorhood?” pointing out that there is no real way to externally gage a survivor.

From my point of view I’ve seen a’lot of stubborn deffince of the groups you seem to be in. Category six for the most part. Except for Jake who has missed applied Category eleven to himself (en eleven would not bother coming here) it’s easy for me to pick categories for you. But as other have correctly pointed out, what I the outside observer thinks doesn’t matter. I'm just pointing out what I see.


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#28440 - 02/26/04 01:45 PM Re: By the Numbers
Sinking Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 577
Loc: Took my ball and went home.
But you don't see me, or know me at all. You are generalizing us all from your limited observations.

You are projecting shame upon the rest of us by insisting that there is a shameful stigma attached to being abused as a child. I am telling you from my own experience that the shameful stigma you speak of (and continue to insist exists) is not what I've encountered. I am sorry you have, but that is your experience, not mine so please stop trying to convince me, us that this is the way all of society treats and views victims of sexual abuse.


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#28441 - 02/26/04 01:52 PM Re: By the Numbers
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
try finding help through your local public health organizations. Try and put up a flyer for a “male only” support group on your local library’s peg board.
Brian,

I'm up to the challenge.

I'll be at therapy tonight in another weekly session brought to me by the local health department, which incidentally runs a 24 hour crisis line. I've been going since August or September, at no cost to me outside what I pay in local taxes.

I could put up a flyer at the library, but there are already a couple male only groups in the area. I found them when I went looking for the crisis center last summer.

I go on weekends to SIA, and there's another meeting during the week that simply conflicts with my elementary school homework helping privileges as a father. One of the other men from the weekend meeting has attended the weeknight meeting, and I believe he may have told me it was a men's only group, but I'm not positive.

I got an extra copy of the retreat registration form in my members' mailing yesterday. I have it with me now to take to my T tonight.

I've worn my MaleSurvivor T-shirt from the MN conference out in public, grocery shopping, bookstore, Home Depot. Never got any snide comments or noticed any unfriendly looks from the shopping public. I intend to wear it when I do the 3K walk to Stop The Silence (there's no way I'll be able to run 6k!) in DC less than two months from now.

Maybe I'm the wrong guy for your argument. My wife says she feels like a freak when I speak Irish to my kids in public. I figure since I don't know the native language (Algonquin? Cherokee? Not really sure around here.) then I'll speak the one that's mine, thank you very much. I made a point of wearing my Mets hat the whole ride through Georgia, to and from Florida with the kids a few years back. (I wear it for every trip to Philly, too, as well as at the first game in Camden Yards, Baltimore. Remember 1969!) I don't give a damn what they think about how I sound or look or what I've lived through or how I will live today.

I took your categories as a joke, and I really enjoyed your atypical "survivor's first post." Like I said earlier, no mention of fear, so I really can't take it too seriously. Who am I in the dark? Sometimes I'm a scared little boy wishing he didn't hurt so much, wondering what will happen next. There is no shame in that. The fear is as real as the memories, the scars inside and out. But so long as I don't let it stop me from living and loving, I need not feel shame. So long as I do continuously make (and re-make, and re-make, as needed) the decision to better my life, I can feel good about my spirit.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#28442 - 02/26/04 01:55 PM Re: By the Numbers
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
jus' wondering.... bet that most people, non-survivors included, could probably fit into one the categories. I suspect that categorizing people, and many of us do it, makes it easier for us to label and push them aside, out of sight, out of mind. Sad. .. Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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