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#28412 - 02/25/04 07:45 AM By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
It’s been sometime since I’ve posted anything controversial. But a few recent posts have gotten me thinking and probably not the ones that you may be thinking of. I would like to start off by stating that I am in no way sorry for my views, I don’t care if it’s taken the wrong way by anyone.

SA is bloody unfair but there is nothing, absolutely nothing you or anyone can do to “make it better” it just is, and we have to live with it. We have to deal with it, and no matter what way we choose to deal with it, there are going to be consequences for that choice. We all paid for, or are paying a price for being here. I’ll start with the most obvious one, as much as we pretend it is not so, it is shameful to be a SA victim. Society will never see us as “normal” people as long as we are open about being “damaged goods,” and do not take on a proper air of shame. So that is my first category of a survivor paying a price, the outcast.

My second category is also an obvious one. The survivor who denies it and stuffs it all inside to the point where he can no longer feel anything. For him life is nothing more then going through the motions.

The third, the overachiever, really an extension of category two. He tries to undo SA with money, positions and women.

The fourth, the underachiever, his only goal is to be invisible.

Category five, the overt addict. Drugs, alcohol, food and sex.

Category six, the covert addict. Therapy, Religion, Twelve-step and MS.

The seventh category, the emotional leach. Unable to function with out an increasing level of drama and sympathy.

The eight category, the cynic.

Number nine, the crusader. Ignores his real feelings in a vain attempt to fix the world.

Ten, the vengeful. An extension of the ninth category. He believes every thing will be better if he can only find a way to get revenge.

And finally eleven, the defeated, living but already dead.

I’ve made my choice, I’m an eight trying to be a one. There is no measure of success in the survivor game only to be happy with the choices we make, for me being a cynical outcast from society is an acceptable price for my freedom.


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#28413 - 02/25/04 08:54 AM Re: By the Numbers
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2259
Loc: Maryland USA
Brian,

That is an impressive list of labels. Is there a diagnostic instrument that can help me place myself on the continuum of survivorhood? I'm pushing 4 digits on my post count, and I'm working two 12 step groups. But I write letters to newspapers, do volunteer work, and will speak to other non-survivor volunteers later this year. Maybe I'm some almagamation of 2, 4, 6, 8, and (Damn they were all even!), 9. I think I could fit better in the scheme if there were some mention of fear in there somewhere.

Quote:
for me being a cynical outcast from society is an acceptable price for my freedom.
Freedom from what?

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#28414 - 02/25/04 09:29 AM Re: By the Numbers
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Brian:

Quote:
There is no measure of success in the survivor game only to be happy with the choices we make,
That is a powerful sentence. I would only add that we must forgive ourselves for all the shitty coping skills until we thought that what happened to us was a really big deal.

It matters not what others think. It is only inside that matters.

On your scale I would say that I am all over the map. I even get to one on occasion. But I guess that is me and I can live with that.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#28415 - 02/25/04 11:32 AM Re: By the Numbers
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Brian, thank you for the provocative posting.
It could only have been written by someone leaning heavily towards a category 8 type personality, or perhaps someone with his tongue planted firmly in his cheek. I'm not sure I see things in such black and white terms. Maybe we are a little of all those things at different times, survivors or not. I would even suggest that people who have not been abused at all, are all those things at different times and to varying degrees. ... Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#28417 - 02/25/04 01:23 PM Re: By the Numbers
Brayton Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Minneapolis
Brian,

I agree that the past is unchangeable. I believe that I can only change my preceptions of it and I have started to do so. I believe that I can, however, learn to have control over my present-time choices, more and more as I work on it.

That's what I'm finding out about myself anyway.

I am working toward the day when surviving as the central aspect of my life will end and it will be simply a part of it

I believe that that will be a time when I can take joy in life's simple pleasures and not feel guilty...a time when I will like myself and will be self-confident and so will also be able to be in functional relationships of all kinds with people.

I know that its relatively easy for me to say that today because I am feeling better than has been usual lately.

First I was a victim, now I am a survivor, in the future I will be healed but aware of my past and remembering to honor that which I have experienced and survived.

That's my hope, anyway, so I suppose I don't fit in Category 8.

Brett.

_________________________
Sometimes, things just won't work the way we want them to.

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#28418 - 02/25/04 07:08 PM Re: By the Numbers
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
Jake,

You are only defeated if you give up. You are here getting support, so I doubt that you have given up.

Hang in there,
Bill

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#28419 - 02/25/04 07:16 PM Re: By the Numbers
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
Okay, I fall in four of these categories. But the number of categories I fit in is decreasing - partially because of #6, my addiction to MS. A year ago I would have also fit into #2 and #11 (aren't these about the same).

As I have cataloged these deficencies , I am able to work on them. Can't take them all at once, I'd pop like an overinflated balloon.

Bill

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#28420 - 02/25/04 08:09 PM Re: By the Numbers
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Brian
I agree with a lot of what you say, in priciple.

But there are a lot of grey areas as well, I certainly think that this -
Quote:
as much as we pretend it is not so, it is shameful to be a SA victim.
is only "as much as we allow it to be shameful" There is a lot of latitude there that you don't give credit for.

This is spot on, just so true.-
Quote:
There is no measure of success in the survivor game only to be happy with the choices we make,
This is sad, but a fact. BUT, it is possible to fight your way out of this -
Quote:
And finally eleven, the defeated, living but already dead.
I read into your "11 stages" that you perceive a climate of "victim thinking" that it's all to easy to fall into, and begin to rely upon. And I agree that it is easy to find a level that's 'acceptable' and stay there ( some might say wallow there )
But if that's what it takes for that individual to 'survive' is that such a bad thing ?

Or is giving someone who appears to be 'stuck' at one particualar stage a kick on the butt a bad thing ?

Surviving, and even better - moving forward, does require regular 'kicks on the butt'; and posts like this should encourage each of us as an individual to look hard at where we are, then kick our own butts !

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#28421 - 02/25/04 09:10 PM Re: By the Numbers
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
I think it was Knute Rockne who said “character is who you are in the dark” or maybe it was “character is who you are when no one is looking.” And it could have been Vince Lombardi who said it but Knute Rockne sticks in my mind, but that is not the point.

Who are you in the dark?


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#28422 - 02/25/04 10:07 PM Re: By the Numbers
Texas_Mike Offline
Member

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 135
Loc: San Antonio, Texas-The Lone-St...
B-

I thought it was shameful 4 years; embarrassed; humiliated ; I was down-beating myself up - wasn't human-but always climbed back from the rock pile-today I'm in a kick ass mood-even told a pal about my shit- today--------------------BFD--------I can talk about it and stand tall-look you in the eye-nothing to be ashamed about, B.
it's a good day-----better tomorrow.

_________________________
"Passion, excitement, and confidence are the important medicines that you need every day"

Run 2 Live-Live 2 Run

Best,
"The Desert Runner" Mike

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